|| LocK Dis Up ||

[kal-el-8]

Paul George isn't a generational talent.
He's a better then Derozan, but that's not saying much imo.

 

[denni5themenace]

i just want to organically grow from the ground up

develop the young guys, add a piece here and there through FA. see what we can do with the squad and tweak it as we go.

is that too much to ask for?

 

[CP1708]

You're the 3rd one to use the word organically.


If the Lakers hold on to these kids and don't make any trades, I hope that becomes the catch phrase in Lakerland.

 

[kal-el-8]

i just want to organically grow from the ground up

develop the young guys, add a piece here and there through FA. see what we can do with the squad and tweak it as we go.

is that too much to ask for?

It's easily the Lakers best option.

 

[lovehateself]

i just want to organically grow from the ground up

develop the young guys, add a piece here and there through FA. see what we can do with the squad and tweak it as we go.

is that too much to ask for?

jimmy buss might not agree

 

[MVP]

Ok man, I'd love for you to detail this for me.

You want Paul George, and Russell Westbrook.

First off, George is 26. Derozan is 26. George has had one of his legs folded in half. Derozan has not. George is a 41% shooter. Derozan a 44% shooter. George has a higher usage rate than Derozan. Worse shooting, more usage. More injury worry. Oh, and on top of that, we have to TRADE multiple pieces to get George, we trade none for Derozan.

Do I have this right so far?

Then, you want Russ, in 2017. When he turns 29. And he too, has multiple knee surgeries on his resume.

So, rather than have DLo, Pick, Randle, Clarkson, Nance, Brown, BLack, #32, and then sign 2-3 FA's

You would prefer to have maybe one of those left over, Brown, Black, George, and Russ as they enter their older years with injuries already on their bodies.



Do I have all that correct? Have you truly thought this thru, or you just throwin stuff at the wall and seein what sticks? I'm not mocking, I'm askin you to explain how you think that second scenario is the better play. Granted, George is a better player, I agree. But he costs half our assets (and maybe more, like future picks, etc) And adding TWO key players, with leg injuries, as they leave their early 20's for the more elder ages......is this really a wise investment?

Sure I'll give it a whirl.

1st: I believe our "young core" is highly overrated. Some view these guys as the 2nd coming? I don't, their young guys who at best are ready to make an impact as far as winning in 3 years just off sheer fact their bodies and minds haven't adapted to the game yet. And there's always the possibility that they don't end up being what you guys hope they'll be. Like that's so far fetched from happening.

2nd: PG13 is a top 10 player in the league that impacts both ends of the floor. To even put him in the same sentence as that bum Derozan is disrespectful first of all. As far as the injury concern, as is with any player that's just a risk that comes with the game. That was a freak injury not a recurring one and he recovered very well to be even better than he was before. That point also applies to Russ. PG also doesn't cost you 25 million at least for the next 2 years.

3rd: I think it's a forgone conclusion that Westbrook wants to be here for a myriad of reasons. Barring some catastrophic injury, he's still going to be a top 5 player next summer. He also impacts the game in a multitude of ways that you don't need 2 or 3 different specialists for. Age isn't much of a concern, I think at worst he can play at this level for another 3-4 years or for the majority of the deal.

4th: The cost control aspect, right now it looks very good because the majority of the team is making pennies. That starts to stop this summer, Clarkson has to get paid, Randle next year, and D'Lo the year after when you may not be seeing the progress you've expected individually and team wise.

5th: The assumption of impact FAs wanting to come play with said young core. Roster above anything and opportunity to win is the chief issue for most stars in the league, also in this new friendly NBA is the need to want to pay with other stars. We don't have any right now. It's going to take that first domino to get that ball rolling (Demar does not qualify). I'm inclined that having PG here theoretically, and Westbrook after would do just that more so than a team of D'Lo, Randle, Clarkson, Derozan would do. If I'm not mistaken you want to use all the cap this summer. If youyou do so you're stuck with that team for the next 4 years, which at the rate of development you acknowledged may not be even playoff ready for another 2-3 years.

6th: I just don't feel like the brain trust we have has a true vision of what they want. These leaks often are people maybe not the higher ups trying to gauge public reaction to certain things. Not saying they did so in this case but it's been done all over sports so I'm inclined to believe the Lakers in their dysfunctional state are immune.

Bottom line I'd like some type of middle ground, not go all young core (as mentioned before there's guys you can get that do what Randle and Clarkson do, D'Lo maybe to a lesser extent, but he has the most value). If we could keep 1 of the 4 (D'Lo, Randle, Clarkson, Simmons/Ingram) and package the rest to get PG13 I'd do it. If theoretically I can keep 1 of those guys, get PG13 at a discount relative to what he's worth over the next few seasons+ Westbrook and still have money for multiple max impact guy(s) both summers with a more competitive team, I'm doing it 100/100 times and not looking back *shrugs*

 

[CP1708]

The Los Angeles Lakers recently announced an agreement to hire former Golden State Warriors assistant Luke Walton to a multi-year contract as their head coach.

Out of respect for the Warriors, Lakers part owner and executive vice president of basketball operations Jim Buss was reluctant to talk about Walton at length, but was happy to praise him for his performance as Golden State’s interim coach earlier in the season.

“He was thrust into a situation. People might say, ‘Anyone could coach Golden State with their roster.’ No you couldn’t have,” said Buss in a phone interview with Basketball Insiders. “There’s a lot of pressure in that. There’s a lot of preparation for that.”

Walton posted a 39-4 record while Steve Kerr was sidelined with a back injury.

“It seemed like he had an incredible handle on relationships with players – how to build them, how to build trust and culture,” Buss continued.

Eleven days after the Lakers’ 17-65 season, their worst in franchise history, the team let go of Byron Scott, whose 38 wins over two years with the franchise is one short of the number Walton won on Kerr’s behalf.

“It was a fair amount of time,” said Buss on Scott’s dismissal. “There was a lot to go through before that decision was made. I’m not going to have a knee-jerk reaction because everybody says, ‘You won 17 games, he’s got to go.’ I made a promise to sit with him and [general manager] Mitch [Kupchak] and give him a fair shake.”

While the Lakers were deliberating, Tom Thibodeau and Scott Brooks signed deals to coach the Minnesota Timberwolves and Washington Wizards, respectively. Neither was higher than Walton on the Lakers’ list of candidates. An excellent interview sealed it, and Walton was hired the following day.

Of course, Walton will be joining the Lakers without All-Stars Stephen Curry, Klay Thompson and Draymond Green.

Instead, the Lakers have developing prospects D’Angelo Russell, Julius Randle and Jordan Clarkson. Clarkson will be a restricted free agent in July, but the team expects him to re-sign.

Buss also listed forward Larry Nance Jr. and veteran guard Lou Williams as building blocks for the future.

“There’s five to me – solid, core players we can work with and build on,” said Buss. “I like Marcelo [Huertas], I think in the right system he might be a good fit.”

Huertas, who just finished his rookie NBA season as a 32-year-old after playing most of his career overseas, can also be a restricted free agent this summer.

Buss was also happy with veteran big man Brandon Bass, who may opt out of $3.1 million owed for the 2016-17 season to explore free agency.

“And Tarik Black, I like him. He could be a rotational player,” said Buss of the second-year forward, yet another potential restricted free agent.

The next milestone for the Lakers will be on May 17, when the NBA holds its draft lottery. The team has a 55.8 percent chance at a top-three pick, otherwise their selection will convey to the Philadelphia 76ers to close out the Steve Nash trade.

Walton may get help in the draft, perhaps with a forward like Ben Simmons of LSU or Brandon Ingram of Duke.

“Right now, I think our young guys are the perfect number and we will add solid veterans,” said Buss.

With Kobe Bryant retiring, Roy Hibbert’s contract coming off the team’s books and the NBA’s salary cap jumping this summer from $70 million to a projected $92 million, the Lakers could have in the neighborhood of $60 million in spending power.

The top free agents will be Kevin Durant, who is unrestricted, and LeBron James, who can opt out his contract with the Cleveland Cavaliers. Either would be a boon to the Lakers, but neither should be expected.

Other quality free agents include guards DeMar DeRozan and Mike Conley, big men Hassan Whiteside, Al Horford and Joakim Noah, and forwards Nicolas Batum, Ryan Anderson, Kent Bazemore and Chandler Parsons (who has a player option with the Dallas Mavericks) among others.

Restricted free agents are generally more challenging to acquire, with standouts like center Andre Drummond, forward Harrison Barnes and guard Bradley Beal atop the list.

Buss hopes the Lakers will have greater success in persuading players to sign, compared to the past couple of summers, when the team could only boast unproven rookies and an aging Bryant.

“In the last two years, we had nothing to sell,” said Buss. “Trust me, it’s a whole different feeling when you walk into one of those pitches and we have a lot [more on the roster and cap room to add additional talent].”

The Lakers could have started the rebuilding effort after Bryant tore his Achilles’ tendon in April of 2013. Instead, the team awarded their long-time All-Star with a two-year, $48.5 million contract extension.

“We could have expedited the rebuild, but I have no regrets,” said Buss of the Lakers’ decision to pay Bryant. “We have a tradition here of taking care of our players.”

Meanwhile, the rival Boston Celtics pulled the plug on their championship core earlier, dealing Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett to the Brooklyn Nets in June of 2013. The Celtics are well ahead of the Lakers, winning 48 games this past season before falling in six games in the first round of the playoffs to the Atlanta Hawks.

“Boston did a great job because they also got a young coach that got to grow with this guys,” said Buss of head coach Brad Stevens. “When you have a coach that can grow with you, that’s pretty nice.”

That’s what the Lakers believe they have in Walton.

Buss also hopes the Lakers will be well past this rebuilding stage soon thanks to their young core and the pieces they add this summer (be it through the draft, free agency or trades).

“That’s bottom,” said Buss off the team’s most recent campaign. “Seventeen is the low, that’s for sure.”

The Lakers originally drafted Walton as a forward out of Arizona in 2003 with the 32nd overall pick. He spent over eight seasons with the Lakers, winning two NBA titles.

At just 36 years old, Walton is younger than a sizable list of active players including Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki, Vince Carter, Manu Ginobili, Jason Terry and both Pierce and Garnett.

Now, he’ll leave the best regular season team in NBA history, boasting a 73-9 record, to join a Lakers franchise coming off a painful 17-win campaign.

It’s a leap of faith for Walton, just as it is for the Lakers, but the team is confident they’ve made the right hire.

Now it’s up to Buss and Kupchak, armed with more cap room in July than any other franchise, to build a roster that Walton can develop into a contender.

 

[CP1708]

4th: The cost control aspect, right now it looks very good because the majority of the team is making pennies. That starts to stop this summer, Clarkson has to get paid, Randle next year, and D'Lo the year after when you may not be seeing the progress you've expected individually and team wise.

Randle is under team control for 3 more years.
DLo is under team control for 4 more years.

So your stance there is wrong on all levels.

And George getting 18-19 the next two years while you HOPE Russ follows does, what? 8th seed and bounced? The Indiana special?

And you want Russ for 3-4 more years? When we have a GROUP of 20 year olds that could last over a decade?



It doesn't have to be ALL of them reach elite level. Just 1-2 of them, and the rest are solid starters. Say, Ingram-DLo reach all star level, and Randle Clarkson and 2 FA's are all starter caliber players. That's 6 guys worthy of starting, 2 of them all star level. If it turns into 3 of them........ You're putting all your eggs in 2 baskets. I'm putting all my eggs in 8 baskets. Gives us a better chance at sustained winning + ability to move players as needed. Absorb injuries, etc.

 

[hoosierdaddy317]

Just came in here to tell yall PG ain't going nowhere b. Maybe when his contract is up but not now b. NOT AT ALL

 

[mr j 858]

If we end up with the #2 or #3 pick in the :

View media item 2019589

Trade it in a package deal of Randle for PG13.Offer this years 2nd rounder or next years 1st rounder.

 

[MVP]

I was a year off on the qualifying offers for both, my mistake.

I want a top 10 and top 5 player for the next 3-4 years at least where they can contend and be competitive. I think a team of Russ+PG at the very worst is a playoff team, possibly a top one in the west depending on what happens with the Clippers and at this that point OKC has broken up. I also believe Russ+PG and one of the young guys if possible is a helluva lot more attractive to other impact guys than what we have now.

How long are you thinking it's going to take for the core to get to the point where they're competitive for a playoff spot at the very least? I've been off the mindset it's a self fulfilling prophecy they weren't going to all be together anyway, just doesn't happen in today's NBA. GS got lucky with Steph's deal otherwise they'd be looking at lot different as well.

And if only one of the young guys need to be elite, I don't see the harm in packaging the others if their able to net an elite talent right now, and you're not compromising your cap situation going forward and simultaneously making your team more competitive and attractive to other FAs. *shrugs*

 

[comptonprince]

I was a year off on the qualifying offers for both, my mistake.

I want a top 10 and top 5 player for the next 3-4 years at least where they can contend and be competitive. I think a team of Russ+PG at the very worst is a playoff team, possibly a top one in the west depending on what happens with the Clippers and at this that point OKC has broken up. I also believe Russ+PG and one of the young guys if possible is a helluva lot more attractive to other impact guys than what we have now.

How long are you thinking it's going to take for the core to get to the point where they're competitive for a playoff spot at the very least? I've been off the mindset it's a self fulfilling prophecy they weren't going to all be together anyway, just doesn't happen in today's NBA. GS got lucky with Steph's deal otherwise they'd be looking at lot different as well.

Exactly Steph playing for crumbs right now plus Barnes is 50/50 chance he might bounce in FA....

 

[mr j 858]

Just came in here to tell yall PG ain't going nowhere b. Maybe when his contract is up but not now b. NOT AT ALL

View media item 2019597

 

[CP1708]

I was a year off on the qualifying offers for both, my mistake.

I want a top 10 and top 5 player for the next 3-4 years at least where they can contend and be competitive. I think a team of Russ+PG at the very worst is a playoff team, possibly a top one in the west depending on what happens with the Clippers and at this that point OKC has broken up. I also believe Russ+PG and one of the young guys if possible is a helluva lot more attractive to other impact guys than what we have now.

How long are you thinking it's going to take for the core to get to the point where they're competitive for a playoff spot at the very least? I've been off the mindset it's a self fulfilling prophecy they weren't going to all be together anyway, just doesn't happen in today's NBA. GS got lucky with Steph's deal otherwise they'd be looking at lot different as well.

And if only one of the young guys need to be elite, I don't see the harm in packaging the others if their able to net an elite talent right now, and you're not compromising your cap situation going forward and simultaneously making your team more competitive and attractive to other FAs. *shrugs*

Because you don't yet know which one (or two) will be the elite.

If you trade DLo-Ingram thinking Randle is the elite, and are wrong.......

You let them grow and develop together. Like GS did, at that point, we will become the destination again.

If we get Ingram and buy up 3 FA's that fit, and DLo/Clarkson/Randle/Nance all progress, we could make the playoffs this year. If only 1-2 FA's, then maybe not. But I'd understand if they want to save a slot for trades or next year, etc.

 

[hoosierdaddy317]

 

Just came in here to tell yall PG ain't going nowhere b. Maybe when his contract is up but not now b. NOT AT ALL

I got two buddies in the org that just told me he's not going anywhere. But **** could change once that lottery comes around though. These orgs ain't loyal 

 

[tonelow]

I was a year off on the qualifying offers for both, my mistake.

I want a top 10 and top 5 player for the next 3-4 years at least where they can contend and be competitive. I think a team of Russ+PG at the very worst is a playoff team, possibly a top one in the west depending on what happens with the Clippers and at this that point OKC has broken up. I also believe Russ+PG and one of the young guys if possible is a helluva lot more attractive to other impact guys than what we have now.

How long are you thinking it's going to take for the core to get to the point where they're competitive for a playoff spot at the very least? I've been off the mindset it's a self fulfilling prophecy they weren't going to all be together anyway, just doesn't happen in today's NBA. GS got lucky with Steph's deal otherwise they'd be looking at lot different as well.

And if only one of the young guys need to be elite, I don't see the harm in packaging the others if their able to net an elite talent right now, and you're not compromising your cap situation going forward and simultaneously making your team more competitive and attractive to other FAs. *shrugs*

But wouldn't you rather find out who will be that star? Give them at least a year, even half a year to pay under a new coach. 

My thing is you can still make moves at the deadline or next year. I agree you might have to move some eventually, but why now? 

 

[WAKKO!]

Let's say KD signs somewhere else this summer would you want to trade our draft pick+Clarkson for westbrook? I'm sure okc doesn't want to let Russell walk away just like harden did? I mean Cleveland traded away Wiggins for love straight up because the t wolves didn't want lose love and not get anything in return

 

[MVP]

I never said you'd do it right now, in fact in order for it to work you'd have to resign Clarkson first, draft Ingram/Simmons hope they play well getting their value up along with Julius and D'Lo. At that point you make your projection of which one you want to keep and package the others for a star.

So just to be clear C CP1708 since were dealing in hypotheticals here you'd rather have going into the 2018 season:

D'Lo
Derozan
Ingram/Simmons
Randle
Whiteside
Batum
Clarkson

and capped with that squad for the next 3 seasons

Or


1 of D'Lo, Randle, Clarkson, Ingram, Simmons
PG13
Westbrook

+ the flexibility to add another max FA in the summer of 2017 or if they decide to get Whiteside anyway still have almost enough if the cap is at 108.

Russ at 30, Whiteside at 22, PG at 19 mil, young guy.

 

[mr j 858]

Let's say KD signs somewhere else this summer would you want to trade our draft pick+Clarkson for westbrook? I'm sure okc doesn't want to let Russell walk away just like harden did? I mean Cleveland traded away Wiggins for love straight up because the t wolves didn't want lose love and not get anything in return

OKC surely would ask for D'Lo instead if they even considered trading Russey to the Lakers.

 

[MVP]

Let's say KD signs somewhere else this summer would you want to trade our draft pick+Clarkson for westbrook? I'm sure okc doesn't want to let Russell walk away just like harden did? I mean Cleveland traded away Wiggins for love straight up because the t wolves didn't want lose love and not get anything in return

Nah no need to trade for Russy when he's going to likely come as a FA.

 

[CP1708]

I never said you'd do it right now, in fact in order for it to work you'd have to resign Clarkson first, draft Ingram/Simmons hope they play well getting their value up along with Julius and D'Lo. At that point you make your projection of which one you want to keep and package the others for a star.

So just to be clear C CP1708 since were dealing in hypotheticals here you'd rather have going into the 2018 season:

D'Lo
Derozan
Ingram/Simmons
Randle
Whiteside
Batum
Clarkson

and capped with that squad for the next 3 seasons

Or


1 of D'Lo, Randle, Clarkson, Ingram, Simmons
PG13
Westbrook

and the flexibility to add another max FA in the summer of 2017 or if they decide to get Whiteside anyway still have almost enough if the cap is at 108.

Russ at 30, Whiteside at 22, PG at 19 mil, young guy.

Absolutely option A. 8/8 times.

PG at 19 for ONE year, then you have to pay him 25+. Likely meaning bye bye left over young guy, who ALSO has to get paid soon.

3-4 years of my core is plenty strong to define who becomes that Star player.

 

[MVP]

Why would the young guy have to go bye bye? You can go over the cap to resign your own guys. Plus you have the money to sign another guy.

 

[licensed to ball]

You're overvaluing some of these young players we have, massively.

They'll fill seats, make a few shots, have a few sports center highlights, give us a few memorable game winners, like most young players will. But they ain't competing for a chip, not in the next 10 years. None of them are good enough individually to carry us into the playoffs in the west, and they aren't good enough collectively to make it past the first round in the playoffs even if they all reach their prime.

Their ceilings are not high enough to compete with the top tier teams in the league at all.

So yeah let's stack up young assets, have cap space, and compete like the Celtics are... Difference is neither the Celtics or us gone get far without a super star.

It's a super star league, we got none.
PG is a super star. He would help you get further in the playoffs alone than DLo and Clarkson will together.

So... I'd rather have the super star.
And he ain't no Carmelo super star. He can actually defend, he's a great teammate and a great leader. Mlre to it than just being a star. He makes a difference where it matters.

 

[kal-el-8]

Dear Lord, you're really already projecting the ceilings on what Russel, Randle, Clarkson, Nance will be based off of there rookie years?

Imagine if Golden State did the same when they were building there team.. oh wait.. They could have traded Klay for Love, didn't....

 

[tonelow]

You're overvaluing some of these young players we have, massively.

They'll fill seats, make a few shots, have a few sports center highlights, give us a few memorable game winners, like most young players will. But they ain't competing for a chip, not in the next 10 years. None of them are good enough individually to carry us into the playoffs in the west, and they aren't good enough collectively to make it past the first round in the playoffs even if they all reach their prime.

Their ceilings are not high enough to compete with the top tier teams in the league at all.

So yeah let's stack up young assets, have cap space, and compete like the Celtics are... Difference is neither the Celtics or us gone get far without a super star.

It's a super star league, we got none.
PG is a super star. He would help you get further in the playoffs alone than DLo and Clarkson will together.

So... I'd rather have the super star.
And he ain't no Carmelo super star. He can actually defend, he's a great teammate and a great leader. Mlre to it than just being a star. He makes a difference where it matters.

How could you possibly know that?

Where was Paul George his first 2 years?? People weren't sure that he would be better than DANNY GRANGER.

No one thought Klay would be this good and absolutely no one (including the Warriors coaching staff) knew Draymond was this good.

It takes a couple of years for almost every player not named LeBron and Durant.