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^ the combined amount of people that could guard nowitzki from 2005-2011
^ the combined amount of people that could guard nowitzki from 2005-2011
NBA Legacy Thread, Update Resumes
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by CP1708,
- Start date
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Duncan is a top 10 player all time, who just happened to get overshadowed by the 2 best perimeter players ever outside of Magic and MJ in Kobe and LeBron. Lot of team accomplishments that elevate his greatness and overshadow how he really benefited from being a part time player the last 6 seasons or so, something that neither of those other two guys were afforded when healthy. Also had the stability of an organization only seen by the likes of Tom Brady in modern sports, which helped him a lot in his twilight years. Never was flashy but always substantive, great battles with my Lakers over the years. Consummate professional but never really got to see what made him tick or how he would handle adversity because there was really never any present. HOF class of 2021 will be lit for sure now, or maybe he won't even show up. As for my updated rankings now that he's officially hung em up:
1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Bron
5. Kobe
6. Duncan
7. Shaq
8. Russell
9. Bird
10. Wilt
This "Duncan being a bit player for the last 6 years" narrative has to stop.
Timmy was averaging 18/10/2.7bpg as recently as 2013. First team ALL NBA too.
That's far from being a bit player.
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Yeah no.
06, Lebron, KG, Dirk, Wade all arguably better.
07, Duncan, Lebron, Dirk can make easy arguments.
Then it's Lebron from 08-14.
Stephen Jackson and Udonis Haslem.
Once he figured those two out then you're post is correct.
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I no longer make a definitive list I think these guys are the GOAT candidates, which one you pick comes down to personal preference.
(No order)
Wilt
Kareem
Lebron
Jordan
Oscar
Magic
Bird
(No order)
Wilt
Kareem
Lebron
Jordan
Oscar
Magic
Bird
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They would be the next tier down. I prioritize peak performance over longevity.
Shaq is difficult for me, he's the ultimate peak performance guy.
If I had to win a playoff series, and I had nothing but replacement players on my roster I might take Shaq over everyone.
but if I had to go on lets say mutiple playoff runs 82+playoffs. Shaq gets bumped down due to injury risk.
I could be talked into Shaq. TD I think is a tier below.
but all of this is hair splitting.
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I would probably go
Tier one
Then tier 2 would have
Shaq - by himself
Their 3
Tim Duncan
Olajuwan
ect
Tier one
Then tier 2 would have
Shaq - by himself
Their 3
Tim Duncan
Olajuwan
ect
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Only time Dirk has been better than Kobe is when Kobe started getting hurt the last few years. DWade was never better than Kobe. Love KG but nah. Maybe in 04. Lebron is the only one that a good argument could be made for. It was close during that time but I'll still go with Kobe.
Those are great shooting numbers. He was a great scorer but that's it. He could get 8 or 9 rebounds but he 7 feet he should.
Bruh....Dirk in 06 was crazy. Refs took a chip away from him.
And then what he did in 2011 might be the greatest individual playoff runs in modern history. Went through B. Roy and LMA, Kobe and the defending championship lakers. KD, Russ & Harden. Bron Wade & Bosh.
All while being the only All Star on his team. You not giving Dirk credit man.
How you going to look at him as just a "great shooter, and not a great player" smh. Dirk was 25/9 on 50-40-90 in his prime.
.
Those are great shooting numbers. He was a great scorer but that's it. He could get 8 or 9 rebounds but he 7 feet he should.
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KG just never really did it for me
Maybe it's a personal distaste for his on court antics and attitude or I didn't see enough of his Minny years. Not saying he wasn't great but I find I rate him below where most others rank (shrugs)
Maybe it's a personal distaste for his on court antics and attitude or I didn't see enough of his Minny years. Not saying he wasn't great but I find I rate him below where most others rank (shrugs)
MIKE LOWERY
formerly chuck finster
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Big Shaq is that dude and I agree wholeheartedly with OKBs assessment.
It irks me about what else Shaq could've done. Bridges he shouldn't have burned. The rings him and Kobe would've won had they continued to co-exist.
95 against Hakeem he actually outplayed him but getting swept actually swept his performance under the rug and he got slammed for that finals and it in turn elevated Hakeem to the legendary top 10 status he is.
04 he still dropped 27/11 and 60+% on Ben "the ultimate hustler and Shaq stopper" Wallace but got thrown in the bucket with Kobe as failures in that finals.
06 he was doubled and triple teamed unmercifully even off the ball (with generally two 7 footers Dampier/Dirk) which in part allowed Wade to become DWhistle and dominate on the perimeter one on one.
Nevertheless everyone including myself feels like Shaq could've won more. But as I get older it doesn't matter. He had probably the most dominant prime and highest peak in history. That's his story and while he'll probably always be top 10, but many will never have him top 3-5 etc. But it's cool.
Also Dr. J is top 15 possibly top 10.
It irks me about what else Shaq could've done. Bridges he shouldn't have burned. The rings him and Kobe would've won had they continued to co-exist.
95 against Hakeem he actually outplayed him but getting swept actually swept his performance under the rug and he got slammed for that finals and it in turn elevated Hakeem to the legendary top 10 status he is.
04 he still dropped 27/11 and 60+% on Ben "the ultimate hustler and Shaq stopper" Wallace but got thrown in the bucket with Kobe as failures in that finals.
06 he was doubled and triple teamed unmercifully even off the ball (with generally two 7 footers Dampier/Dirk) which in part allowed Wade to become DWhistle and dominate on the perimeter one on one.
Nevertheless everyone including myself feels like Shaq could've won more. But as I get older it doesn't matter. He had probably the most dominant prime and highest peak in history. That's his story and while he'll probably always be top 10, but many will never have him top 3-5 etc. But it's cool.
Also Dr. J is top 15 possibly top 10.
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Only time Dirk has been better than Kobe is when Kobe started getting hurt the last few years. DWade was never better than Kobe. Love KG but nah. Maybe in 04. Lebron is the only one that a good argument could be made for. It was close during that time but I'll still go with Kobe.
Those are great shooting numbers. He was a great scorer but that's it. He could get 8 or 9 rebounds but he 7 feet he should.
Since when has being a great scorer, 6th all time on the scoring list, 50-40-90 club member, League MVP, Finals MVP....not been a great player. KG was a better two way player....but he wasn't an actual better player than Dirk...or had the better career.
It may just be preference with you. Seems to me like you value "all around" players more. I value players that make a huge impact, and contribute to winning consistently. They can have faults in certain areas. See magic defensively.
That's why I'm Dirk > KG. I would say '04 KG had one of the best individual seasons in recent memory though. But what Dirk did in 2011....sealed it for me. That was historical.
I gotta disagree man.
Tim won more than Bird, Oscar, Wilt and LeBron.
He was also consistently you great for a longer period of time. 99-07 Tim Duncan was stuff of legends. Y'all may need to go back and revisit what type of player he was.
I think we can all agree that Tim Duncam is firmly top 10. Top 6 firmly for me.
Shaq is right there. His Peak dominance in the modern era rivaled Jordan's. I gotta go with Shaq and Duncan before I go Bron, Bird and Oscar.
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When you put it like that, it does make sense Duncan should be in the top 3-5 conversation.
Man his prime seemed so long ago.
Man his prime seemed so long ago.
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When you put it like that, it does make sense Duncan should be in the top 3-5 conversation.
Man his prime seemed so long ago.
Tim gets knocked for being a big...and not being flashy. Big man bias is real.
People have already put LeBron over Shaq, Kareem and Duncan....and they have accomplished more.
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I have Bron over Shaq and Duncan. 
Difficult balance between peak, longevity, individual vs team accomplishments, eras played, etc.
Difficult balance between peak, longevity, individual vs team accomplishments, eras played, etc.
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I have Bron over Shaq and Duncan.
Difficult balance between peak, longevity, individual vs team accomplishments, eras played, etc.
Peak Shaq >>>>> Peak LeBron.
We've seen LeBron been neutralized in his prime in big moments. That didn't happen with Shaq.
Shaq's longevity also is underrated. We forget he came in the league at '92 as a bonafide star. Shaq's prime was almost immediate. from 92-06, he played at an elite level.
His true prime was probably from 94-06
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sucks that the Dream is slept on so much. Probably being in the Jordan era. He's really your favorite big man's favorite big man. Legit the best C in history (imo). 0 weaknesses
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Zeke, Dream, Moses Malone and Kareem are the most slept on to me.
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Yea people sleep on Dr. J. It's probably because he didn't win multiple rings but a lot of players in the 80s, early 90s, even MJ will say Dr. J was the best player of their time. I think MJ was even saying that Dr. J was his idol growing up??? Not 100
He is slept on super hard. He crossed my mind as well when I was debating on the best 5 but you have so many other 5s with a ridiculous amount of rings and a crazy resume...no knock on the dream though. Watched Cluch City and they were saying that MJ was saying it's a good thing they didn't meet the Rockets in the Finals because they didn't have a 5 to match with him. Match up nightmare.
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rings are a team/organizational accomplishment.
the analysis too dynamic to end-all a top (whatever) list on any one criteria
I do believe that I feel Dream would beat any C in a one-on-one match-up, and that his entire tool shed of ability translates more across any team he could potentially play on.
even Shaq met his match (Detroit) as far as being able to dominate in one (few) ways. You literally can't stop Dream
the analysis too dynamic to end-all a top (whatever) list on any one criteria
I do believe that I feel Dream would beat any C in a one-on-one match-up, and that his entire tool shed of ability translates more across any team he could potentially play on.
even Shaq met his match (Detroit) as far as being able to dominate in one (few) ways. You literally can't stop Dream
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How can anyone say peak ____ >>>>> peak LeBron? That's a crazy exaggeration. Peak LeBron was as good as anyone who's ever played.
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Bruh....Dirk in 06 was crazy. Refs took a chip away from him.
And then what he did in 2011 might be the greatest individual playoff runs in modern history. Went through B. Roy and LMA, Kobe and the defending championship lakers. KD, Russ & Harden. Bron Wade & Bosh.
All while being the only All Star on his team. You not giving Dirk credit man.
How you going to look at him as just a "great shooter, and not a great player" smh. Dirk was 25/9 on 50-40-90 in his prime.
You my dude and all Maximus but I'ma have to go with Wavy on this one. I feel like after Duncan, Dirk don't be getting the credit he deserves. Like Wavy said, him winning that 2011 title might have seriously been the greatest individual playoff run I've witnessed. The teams he had to go through, all the while, his team wasn't even that great talent wise compared to the teams he faced.
Also, in regards to Dirk vs KG, I recall Dirk pretty much sonning him in their matchups, especially in the 2002 playoffs. In addition to sweeping KG's team, Dirk's numbers that series was 33 points, 15 boards, 3 steals and a block while shooting 52%. This is with KG being the primary defender that series.
You forgot Tmac and Ryan Bowen who both shut Dirk down in their 2005 playoff series. Those four guys are probably the only 4 i've seen hold Dirk down.
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yup.
most this Lebron "neutralization" comes down to being beaten by better teams.
its the same way people think Shaq was neutralized by Hakeem when in reality he just lost.
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True and agree. People look towards it though when it comes to being "the best." It's a huge reason why people will always say MJ is the GOAT and why Lebron isn't better than Kobe or Jordan. It's debatable. Well, maybe not MJ being the GOAT lol. The Dream was a center who played both sides of the court and played them well....and then you add the fact that he could put the ball on the floor, could play on the perimeter AND had GUARD moves to go along with a post game....
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Peak LeBron has a glaring weakness that allowed the likes of Boris Diaw to back off him effectively in the finals.
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Not in 2011....Or 2009 (even though he balled out).
I'm not saying Peak LeBron isn't one of the greatest. I'm saying Peak Shaq is better.
Jordan and Shaq are the most dominant players in the modern era during their prime.
Bron is a step below their dominance. No slight to him. Shaq and Jordan were just THAT dominant.
