Official NBA 2012-2013 Season Thread

[king milaac]

Sixers are very high on Malone, and that pleases me immensely.

He built a strong relationship with CP3 under Monty in NOLA. A linchpin to Paul's long-term commitment.

Malone also has playoff experience from Cleveland's runs during the LeBron phase.

As much credit as Mark Jackson and Steph will get for GS' improbable run, Malone is the man behind the curtains as lead assistant.

I'm confident he will be far more successful in the league than other recycled HC products. Shaw as well, to a lesser extent.

As a GSW fan I am not looking forward to the departure of Malone. I see Mark Jackson as more of a motivational/inspirational force for the team than the guy coming up with the right plays. Malone came up with a lot of clever ways to get our shooters good looks. I personally feel he is more valuable than Jackson. 

 

[lightweight champion]

do you think he already has a coaching staff and front office in mind???

Absolutely. The whole time KJ said they were playing to win and was supremely confident that they were going to win. I'm not certain whether or not they've been interviewing possible GMs, probably not since the team hasn't been guaranteed yet. But I have to believe Malone is the top choice amongst coaching candidates. If Phil Jackson wants a front office job I'm welcome to that also

 

[abubakr shaheed]

does anyone think INDY has a shot to pull off an upset against miami?

obv miami is favored for good reason but indy plays physical and has athletic wings

 

[Deleted member 38182]

do you think he already has a coaching staff and front office in mind???

Absolutely. The whole time KJ said they were playing to win and was supremely confident that they were going to win. I'm not certain whether or not they've been interviewing possible GMs, probably not since the team hasn't been guaranteed yet. But I have to believe Malone is the top choice amongst coaching candidates. If Phil Jackson wants a front office job I'm welcome to that also

 Phil ain't coming here 

I wouldn't be shocked if for some reason we are stuck with Petrie and/or Smart one more year tho if the transfer of ownership doesn't take place quickly enough.... 

 

[jjs07]

Melo doesn't make his teammates better. He tried that point-forward thing with Pringles and his turnovers shot straight up. But he can pass and he does move the ball when asked on. His problem is, he depends on smart guards and good perimeter shooting. He's used to throwing the ball to Kidd, Prigioni, Shump, JR and Felton, and having them attack, shoot, rotate the ball or find the open man.

That's gotten a lot tougher since the Celtics figured our team out. Woodson loves isos. He thinks it's still high school, where all you have to do is get 1 pick, then try to take your man 1 on 1. The key to Melo's season has been backing down smaller defenders, pulling bigs out to the arc, and passing out of the double team. Doc figured, if I don't double him, I don't believe his teammates are good enough to get shots without it being 4 on 3. If I trust that Pablo won't shoot and Kidd can't shoot, I just have to stay at home on drives to the basket and scare off the corner 3. If Felton, Shump and JR make tough one on one shots or finish at the rim, live with it.

That's why I said before this series, we were in trouble, because the Pacers could just follow the Celtics plans, but do it better. Woodson doesn't know what to do when the double doesn't come. And he especially can't see that when your guards are building brickhouses, someone has to rebound. No one can get open, because Paul George is all-defense for a reason. Melo's having trouble posting him up and backing him down, because of his length, but that doesn't really matter, since there's no one to pass to out of the post-up.

You wanna know where his assists went? Ask Jason Kidd. **** JR. Forget whatever JR is doing. Ask Jason Kidd what happened to the offense. And Ask Mike Woodson why he's had 2 weeks and can't figure out that he needs to run plays if the Pacers decide not to double. And that his old plan of, "I'm confused, so I'll wheel Kidd out there to be the offensive coach" stops working when he can't shoot for his life, JR sucks, Tyson's boxed out and no one is open.

Melo plays struggle basketball, like he hasn't learned anything in a decade, but there's no one out there. Woodson is just a less hateable George Karl, and Melo has always had focusing issues. In that when he has the ball, he focuses. When he doesn't, he doesn't. So when the offense is dying and the only play is, hopefully Melo, Felton, Shumpert and JR can beat their man, everyone starts missing rotations. It's bad offense creating bad defense. You're trying to get a big picture on Melo's career, in the wrong way.

Bring up those 3 coaches to anyone, and tell me you wouldn't laugh. I'm not saying everyone needs Phil, but everyone needs someone responsible and sensible. Someone who makes adjustments and isn't guaranteed to get outcoached time and again. We got outcoached by the Celtics, but they didn't have enough scoring and ballhandling the first 3 games. We've been outcoached every game by the Pacers, it's just in game 2, they took their foot off the gas and we caught fire.

Woodson got very far on actually practicing defense for a change and having the players like him.
Which are two things no coach has been able to do in New York in a decade.

Just, tell me Mike Woodson isn't the worst coach left in the playoffs.

And that's with Doc, Carlisle, Adelman, Phil, Sloan, SVG all at home.

The lack of offensive adjustments by Woodson have been baffling. I just don't understand why guys like Pablo, Copeland, and Novak are glued to the bench. I am in no way saying that they'd be saviors of the team, but you'd have to think that a line-up shuffle would do some good. There is no reason why JR Smith's minutes shouldn't be cut. He's really hurting the team. Down 3-1 and your backs are against the wall, SOMETHING needs to be done. What's the saying? "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." That's what I'm seeing with Woodson and the Knicks. I put most of the blame on him for looking completely unprepared to coach. For as good as the Pacers are defensively, the Knicks have too much talent on their roster to be bottled up like this.

Another thing, do you think JR Smith comes back next year for the Knicks? My opinion is that he can't handle the responsibility of playing in a city like New York.

 

[bhzmafia14]

I would hope Presti is smart enough to draft a true back to the basket player, if he was going with a big man.

 

[durantula]

Is it just me, or does anyone else have an issue when a player of CP3s calibur changes teams more than once? It just devalues his legacy IMO, and yeah that doesnt mean much in his mind cause hes trying to win, it bothers me a bit.

Well shaqs legacy is pretty solid. *Kanye shrug*

 

[IATT]

I would hope Presti is smart enough to draft a true back to the basket player, if he was going with a big man.

and who is that?

 

[lightweight champion]

 Phil ain't coming here 


I wouldn't be shocked if for some reason we are stuck with Petrie and/or Smart one more year tho if the transfer of ownership doesn't take place quickly enough.... 

Of course I say this now because the only thing I care about is keeping the team, but I'm fine with one more year of Coach Not So Smart even if his rotations are frustrating because he has to play the players that are given to him. I'm actually down to give Petrie one more year because he's sort of in the same boat as Smart where he was basically asked to build a castle...using lincoln logs. Pre-2006 Petrie was arguably the top Front Office guy in the NBA. (Not so) Coincidentally, since the Maloofs maloofing in 2006 going forward all the moves Petrie has made have stunk, sans the draft where he hit on Thomas, Tyreke, Cousins (I think so), and Thompson (this past season was his best so far.) The verdict is still out on Jimmer though.

 

[lightweight champion]

Well shaqs legacy is pretty solid. *Kanye shrug*

Shaq was a HOFer before his team carousel.

 

[jjs07]

LOLZ @ the Clipper excuses...That team was the deepest in the league I thought, now they didn't have the right pieces.

Melo will never win a championship as the guy as long as LeBron is around and prolly even if he wasn't But most players aren't able to do that so constantly using that as the crux of your "Melo is overrated" convo is tiring. Like we get it, he's a black hole, he should be a better finisher, he doesn't try hard on D. Everyone knows these things but its the same parade of clowns who come here time in time after a Knicks loss. You guys add nothing to the convo its all just "When is Melo gonna lead?" or "Say the right things." **** is clownish.

Explain how he is the problem? He was one of the 5 best players in the NBA this year. His second option this year was JR Smith. D'antoni had almost ran Amar'e into the ground by the time he got there as RavageBX said, they never really had an honest chance together to pull if off. If you don't think Melo could co-exist with other superstars I'd say you are a moron. He could play off the ball more and get way more open looks which for one of the best shooters in the league would only help him even more.

I don't think Melo can win a championship as the "Main guy" but as one of the guys on a Celtic or Heat type squad? Sure. That won't happen on this current roster or even prolly with the Knicks since its prolly down-hill for us from here but you guys just like to talk in hyperbole and stupid proclamations without really actually exploring the situation.

Couldn't tell some of yall **** about the Knicks during the regular season now you're going at peoples necks and calling them clowns and morons because you're sensitive.

Since everyone likes to talk in hyperbole and make stupid proclamations, why don't you enlighten us peasants with your take on the situation? I mean, you're CLEARLY in the know and are privy to info that none of us know about...I think S&T would be a much better place if you shared some of this. Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 38182]

 Phil ain't coming here 


I wouldn't be shocked if for some reason we are stuck with Petrie and/or Smart one more year tho if the transfer of ownership doesn't take place quickly enough.... 

Of course I say this now because the only thing I care about is keeping the team, but I'm fine with one more year of Coach Not So Smart even if his rotations are frustrating because he has to play the players that are given to him. I'm actually down to give Petrie one more year because he's sort of in the same boat as Smart where he was basically asked to build a castle...using lincoln logs. Pre-2006 Petrie was arguably the top Front Office guy in the NBA. (Not so) Coincidentally, since the Maloofs maloofing in 2006 going forward all the moves Petrie has made have stunk, sans the draft where he hit on Thomas, Tyreke, Cousins (I think so), and Thompson (this past season was his best so far.) The verdict is still out on Jimmer though.

He drafted Throb too.... but I remember reading rumors that it was the Maloof's call to pick Jimmer and Throb 

 (I think if Petrie really had his way he would have taken Klay Thompson and Lillard, he absolutely loved those two leading up to the draft)

and of course that trade for WildPat was purely Maloof/money-based.... so ya 

 

[antidope]

Is it just me, or does anyone else have an issue when a player of CP3s calibur changes teams more than once? It just devalues his legacy IMO, and yeah that doesnt mean much in his mind cause hes trying to win, it bothers me a bit.

I don't have a problem with it. If a GM won't adequately support a superstar with talent, what's his incentive to stay?

It's a loyalty thing, I don't really hold it against them for leaving, but it plays a part in how you will be remembered. I'll never hold it against them for leaving.

Is it just me, or does anyone else have an issue when a player of CP3s calibur changes teams more than once? It just devalues his legacy IMO, and yeah that doesnt mean much in his mind cause hes trying to win, it bothers me a bit.

Nope because he got traded to the Clippers. Donald Sterling is a bad owner, so I cant see the Clippers ever being the class of the NBA

But they traded him because they knew he was going to walk and didn't want to end up with nothing in return. That's the same as leaving in free agency in my book.

 

[lightweight champion]

He drafted Throb too.... but I remember reading rumors that it was the Maloof's call to pick Jimmer and Throb 

 (I think if Petrie really had his way he would have taken Klay Thompson and Lillard, he absolutely loved those two leading up to the draft)

and of course that trade for WildPat was purely Maloof/money-based.... so ya 

Yeah I was excited with the Robinson pick because of his projection and where we got him, but it didn't make much sense given we already had Thompson, Cousins, and Hayes.

But we keep trading for this Cash Considerations guy and he never freakin' plays!

 

[Deleted member 38182]

Cash Considerations is easily the worst player in the NBA. Dude can't eem play small forward 

 

[jpzx]

I woud have traded Samaki Walker and 4 first round picks for Cash Considerations if it meant not paying Samaki Walker to play basketball.

 

[black migo]

woodson should have novak coming off screens or something, how is your best shooter not playing when you cant hit shots

Novak should atleast be getting 8-10 shots a game

 

[worldbeefreeg]

Couldn't tell some of yall **** about the Knicks during the regular season now you're going at peoples necks and calling them clowns and morons because you're sensitive.

Since everyone likes to talk in hyperbole and make stupid proclamations, why don't you enlighten us peasants with your take on the situation? I mean, you're CLEARLY in the know and are privy to info that none of us know about...I think S&T would be a much better place if you shared some of this. Thanks.

I'm not one of those guys though. I said it only gets worse from here. This was our year and we are going to fall short of the goal (ECF). Is Melo an all-timer? Not really. Not arguing for him to be one. But y'all love to skew things without thinking of how silly you sound. Melo is the problem? How many guys can carry a team to the playoffs with his team on his back like Melo has done throughout his career. Only maybe about 15 or players can do that consistently. Melo isn't a "Superstar" but he certainly was one of the top 5 players in the league this year. A successful team can be structure around his scoring abilities as long as you don't have to lean on him too much. You make him sound like a scrub loser without realizing in prospectively that he has lead his team year-in, year-out to the playoffs, something that only a handful of the best players in the world can do.

Melo's not the problem as long as you realize what the guy is and his limitations.

 

[worldbeefreeg]

Couldn't tell some of yall **** about the Knicks during the regular season now you're going at peoples necks and calling them clowns and morons because you're sensitive.

Since everyone likes to talk in hyperbole and make stupid proclamations, why don't you enlighten us peasants with your take on the situation? I mean, you're CLEARLY in the know and are privy to info that none of us know about...I think S&T would be a much better place if you shared some of this. Thanks.

I'm not one of those guys though. I said it only gets worse from here. This was our year and we are going to fall short of the goal (ECF). Is Melo an all-timer? Not really. Not arguing for him to be one. But y'all love to skew things without thinking of how silly you sound. Melo is the problem? How many guys can carry a team to the playoffs with his team on his back like Melo has done throughout his career. Only maybe about 15 or players can do that consistently. Melo isn't a "Superstar" but he certainly was one of the top 5 players in the league this year. A successful team can be structure around his scoring abilities as long as you don't have to lean on him too much. You make him sound like a scrub loser without realizing in prospectively that he has lead his team year-in, year-out to the playoffs, something that only a handful of the best players in the world can do.

Melo's not the problem as long as you realize what the guy is and his limitations.

 

[mronegative]

The lack of offensive adjustments by Woodson have been baffling. I just don't understand why guys like Pablo, Copeland, and Novak are glued to the bench. I am in no way saying that they'd be saviors of the team, but you'd have to think that a line-up shuffle would do some good. There is no reason why JR Smith's minutes shouldn't be cut. He's really hurting the team. Down 3-1 and your backs are against the wall, SOMETHING needs to be done. What's the saying? "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." That's what I'm seeing with Woodson and the Knicks. I put most of the blame on him for looking completely unprepared to coach. For as good as the Pacers are defensively, the Knicks have too much talent on their roster to be bottled up like this.

Another thing, do you think JR Smith comes back next year for the Knicks? My opinion is that he can't handle the responsibility of playing in a city like New York.

Woodson's always been like this. He's stubborn and makes decisions very slowly and a lot of times needs something very good or very bad to happen to force him to do something. And when it's done, he'll go back to the way he was. He's just not an *******, who sounds stupid and enraging every postgame like Mike D'antoni. If a series lasted 13 games, he'd be fine. He'd be able to get over his mental blocks. It was the same way during the regular season. He'd just wait until something special happened, like Melo catching fire, or K-Mart joining the team, or Shump getting healthy or Prigioni, showing out. But once that dies down, he immediately goes back to the same ol.

I mean, Copeland was great at times, and really helped keep the team up after Dwight ****** Melo's knee up, but once Melo was back and right, straight back to the doghouse for him. No real reason. His defense and rebounding aren't so good, but that just means he'd fit right in with the Knick in this series.

And Prigioni wasn't getting too much burn a lot of the time, but kinda showing out whenever he would. He got into the starting lineup when Kidd was so terrible, that we had no choice and that's exactly when the 13-0 streak happened. But now it's playoffs, so Woody probably decided in December, that he'd ride with his champion, Kidd, to the death. Cuz hey, he won a ring.

I think he's scared and confused. He's too scared of making mistakes, that he just trusts his logic, regardless of what's happening on the court. And he doesn't get why his team is getting beat. He sees missed shots, turnovers and missed rotations, but doesn't understand that he can put his players in better positions to win. He's playing checkers. He doesn't know his own team, and he doesn't trust them the right way.

The hallmark of this season has been him taming JR and getting him to drive to the basket. When sadly it seems like that was a positive result out a very misguided attitude. If the Knicks didn't sign K-Mart, it'd be much clearer what this team is and how it's coached. But him playing out of his mind, because he was so happy to be back in the league and had a short amount of time to earn a new contract + Shump getting back in form + JR driving + Pablo taking Kidd's role + us hitting tough shots like it's easy, was fool's gold.

It's like this, our team is old and depends on veterans. We were only great once this season. And that was before Christmas, when Sheed was great, Kidd was great, Melo was awesome, the bench was getting used right and the vets were passing on knowledge. When Kidd hit the wall and his career basically ended in January, it was over. He's had moments, but our team has never been the same. And Sheed was so incredibly important to what we do. He was our 2nd best post player, 2nd best two-way player, organized our defense and gave us great spacing whether he was making shots or not. All of that is just him. He walked into a team set up by Mike D'antoni, told them to run the offense they knew and try on defense, and the vets sorted it all out and made it work.

And that's been, in a way, the story of the season. All these veterans have been running the team for Woodson. He's just been their teammate. And when they all got hurt or ran out of gas, we lucked into the K-Mart and Prigioni March. And Melo and JR played out of their minds. I don't want JR back, but we can't keep losing talent for nothing, when our team has no assets. I think he can play good for us again, but now we know almost everything he isn't. I don't want Woodson back, but I bet you the team all speaks up for him, cuz he didn't do the D'antoni thing of throwing all his players under the bus, even though he and they deserve it.

Just like the Bulls honestly think it. Just like the Celtics might think it. I honestly believe that with everyone healthy, the Knicks could've won the chip this year. And everyone includes Sheed and Kurt Thomas and I really want to add Jason Kidd to this list too. And is stupid a health issue? Then Woody too. But that's without everyone else in the condition they're in. Everyone's gonna get healthier and better next year, and the Knicks are probably gonna get worse, even with a full year of Shump, Felton and maybe Amar'e.

 

[jjs07]

I'm not one of those guys though. I said it only gets worse from here. This was our year and we are going to fall short of the goal (ECF). Is Melo an all-timer? Not really. Not arguing for him to be one. But y'all love to skew things without thinking of how silly you sound. Melo is the problem? How many guys can carry a team to the playoffs with his team on his back like Melo has done throughout his career. Only maybe about 15 or players can do that consistently. Melo isn't a "Superstar" but he certainly was one of the top 5 players in the league this year. A successful team can be structure around his scoring abilities as long as you don't have to lean on him too much. You make him sound like a scrub loser without realizing in prospectively that he has lead his team year-in, year-out to the playoffs, something that only a handful of the best players in the world can do.

Melo's not the problem as long as you realize what the guy is and his limitations.

He's part of the problem...which is what most people realize. He's not THE problem, but part of it. There's a difference.

 

[illoquent aka dsk]

C'mon G.

 

[Maximus Meridius]

Essential ain't got nothing on MrONegative.

 

[worldbeefreeg]

Well, if a team doesn't win a championship, everyone is part of the problem. That doesn't really say much. He hasn't exactly played great but he has been hounded by a defense that hasn't let him do anything this series and unfortunately he isn't a good enough of a playmaker to open things up for others nor do is anyone else really playing well enough right now to help him.

 

[al3xis]

Carmelo is the same guy he was 5 years ago, that he will be next year etc etc

It's going to take the perfect storm to win at the highest level with him (Not saying he and Dirk are alike - but it'd take that kind of situation that the Mavs had) - and I actually thought this team was constructed to his strengths perfectly - got to play PF with a defensive minded center, had shooters and ball movers. And then the bottom fell out.

He's just never going to give you enough outside of scoring to elevate a team past this point - everything needs to be firing on all cylinders.

Now, I don't blame anyone for poking the fire of the Knick fans who chant MVP, refer to him as 'MELOGAWD' and are dumb enough to volunteer LeBron/Durant comps when things are rolling. Have at it. But there's a middle ground to be had with Carmelo, for sure.