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at least go after Walmart instead.
target is where all the cute girls shop.
sarcasm
we really do need to crack down on white terrorists though. Rico, quick, make a list for us of all angry white trump supporters.
***Official Political Discussion Thread***
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by rico x hood,
- Start date
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On a deep and philosophical level, I disliked Hillary Clinton because she normalized inequality. She acted like it is normal and proper that people without college degrees have no economic prospects. She wanted equality for women, daycare tax credits, so women could have better opportunities to work long hours for low pay in precarious jobs. She was resigned to the idea that the top one percent would own almost everything and she told marginalized groups that she would make them better equipped to fight white men in the battle for the scraps.
That lead to the Clinton campaign eschewing millions of votes on their left: students, poor minorities and trade unionists. They gave all of that up in order to potentially gain, at best, a half million votes from wealthy white women, who ordinarily vote Republican. That gamble was foolish from the start. How did their campaign so thoroughly fail to understand that well educated white people are locked in a civil war and very few people will change sides and if they do change sides it is due to personal ideological shifts and not the occasional ticket splitting.
She also grossly misread the white working class. Now I know that that term is problematic in most setting but in the hardball game of electoral politics, whites without college degrees are more demanding than non white with college degrees. White people have in their collective memory, an era when high school graduates could have a middle class life. You have to reckon for that instead of leaning on white guilt among a subset of white people who do not have white guilt.
Now despite all those tactical errors and lack of imagination, she would have been far superior to Donald Trump or any Republican. Even if she were identical to Republicans on policy, electing her would have been helpful if only because it would prevent voter suppression from going Federal. If you are a liberal, you need to get out, vote and vote for Democrats because Republicans have shown that they will suppress the vote.
I also told my progressive friends that small victories whet the appetite for more and larger victories. The idea that people will get radicalized and mobilized when things get bad is a very middle-upper class notion. When the already marginalized get kicked in the teeth, they get apathetic, they internalize their oppressors' world view or they drink in the opium of mega churches.
One other thing I told my progressive friends was that while I disagree a great deal with Clinton, she did have a very real, living breathing constituency. Much has been made of the fact that Republicans and Democrats increasingly do not live near one another. That same dynamic is at play within the Democratic coalition. Bernie and Hillary people didn't talk much because Bernie did well with white and Asian voters, Clinton did well with Black and brown voters and we live in segregated nation, by and large. When every Democrat in your town supports Bernie, it feels like Clinton's support must be astroturfed and if you live in Hillary neighborhood, Bernie and his followers must have seemed like strange interlopers and trouble makers.
I told every progressive I knew, vote for Clinton and keep your marching shoes ready. Those marching shoes were going to get wear and tear with Clinton in office. With Trump in office, we're gonna need a closet full of marching shoes.
That lead to the Clinton campaign eschewing millions of votes on their left: students, poor minorities and trade unionists. They gave all of that up in order to potentially gain, at best, a half million votes from wealthy white women, who ordinarily vote Republican. That gamble was foolish from the start. How did their campaign so thoroughly fail to understand that well educated white people are locked in a civil war and very few people will change sides and if they do change sides it is due to personal ideological shifts and not the occasional ticket splitting.
She also grossly misread the white working class. Now I know that that term is problematic in most setting but in the hardball game of electoral politics, whites without college degrees are more demanding than non white with college degrees. White people have in their collective memory, an era when high school graduates could have a middle class life. You have to reckon for that instead of leaning on white guilt among a subset of white people who do not have white guilt.
Now despite all those tactical errors and lack of imagination, she would have been far superior to Donald Trump or any Republican. Even if she were identical to Republicans on policy, electing her would have been helpful if only because it would prevent voter suppression from going Federal. If you are a liberal, you need to get out, vote and vote for Democrats because Republicans have shown that they will suppress the vote.
I also told my progressive friends that small victories whet the appetite for more and larger victories. The idea that people will get radicalized and mobilized when things get bad is a very middle-upper class notion. When the already marginalized get kicked in the teeth, they get apathetic, they internalize their oppressors' world view or they drink in the opium of mega churches.
One other thing I told my progressive friends was that while I disagree a great deal with Clinton, she did have a very real, living breathing constituency. Much has been made of the fact that Republicans and Democrats increasingly do not live near one another. That same dynamic is at play within the Democratic coalition. Bernie and Hillary people didn't talk much because Bernie did well with white and Asian voters, Clinton did well with Black and brown voters and we live in segregated nation, by and large. When every Democrat in your town supports Bernie, it feels like Clinton's support must be astroturfed and if you live in Hillary neighborhood, Bernie and his followers must have seemed like strange interlopers and trouble makers.
I told every progressive I knew, vote for Clinton and keep your marching shoes ready. Those marching shoes were going to get wear and tear with Clinton in office. With Trump in office, we're gonna need a closet full of marching shoes.
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at least go after Walmart instead.
target is where all the cute girls shop.
sarcasm
we really do need to crack down on white terrorists though. Rico, quick, make a list for us of all angry white trump supporters.
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RustyShackleford
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Are you saying Hillary did that? That she validated herself through Bill's success?
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i can't speak for illmatic, but my issue with WikiLeaks is that it is easy to take an email out of context and make it look bad. many of the "bombshell" leaks were actually pretty ho-hum but impressionable or naïve readers thought they were a big deal.
EddieDoyers
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Real reason why Hillary lost
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If Hilary Clinton was not Bill Clinton's wife she would not have been in the position to be President. It took her being married to a powerful man to get in that position.
That rubbed my wife the wrong way within the context of her being President was some bold statement on gender in this country.
She still had to be put on by her husband.
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None of that **** is even comparable to what we've learned about Agent Orange the past few days.
What was the worst thing that came out of those leaks? And tell me if it was even close to Trump's association with Russia even before his win? Manafort. Page. And now Flynn.
Mitch McConnell knew about Russian interference and Obama was briefed about it in SEPTEMBER. Comet decided to interfere in the election by launching a second investigation into HRC that was absolutely fruitless.
Hillary's flaws were exacerbated when Bernie's wasn't even touched.
You can't possibly be serious by saying Clinton is the worst presidential candidate ever when you look at what's unfolding under Trump. This is absolutely unprecedented and the ramifications will be DEEP. Never in a million years would any of this happened in a HRC administration. Don't let your personal opinion of Hillary get on the way of reality.
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Hillary would no doubt be a better President than Trump. I honestly think a few NTers could do a better job.
But for better or worse Trump directly pandered in a much more believable way than Hillary.
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RustyShackleford
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Yes maybe Hillary is not in the position to be president if she is not Bill husband, and Bush Jr. wouldn't have been if he son of George Sr. And George Sr. would not have been if he wasn't born rich, you see this family connect with FDR and JFK too. Being from a affluent family has helped plenty of presidential candidates, and will not knock Hillary because her husband happened to be president. Btw, her *** campaigned like crazy to get Bill where he is.
Hillary Clinton still would have been damn successful without marrying Bill. She was a First Lady like none that came before her, and when Bill's brand was toxic in 2000, and the GOP went more money than they every had before in a Senate race to stop her, she still won. It also works both ways, because she is Bil's wife, is the reason she has been targeted so much by the GOP, and progressive hold onto the incorrect idea that she is not a liberal.
Sorry, but you'll want to hold Hillary to a different standard. Does being Bill wife help her, of course, but acting like she only got where she is because of Bill is plain and simple not true.
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She got 3 mill more people to side with her though, how much more believable was he? I hate the electoral college so much fam
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The man can tell BOLDFACED lies and his people STILL rock with him. Trump hasn't done **** but fall on his face so far and his people still think he's great. Not just aight but great.
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I'll give him that, he has built a loyal following
RustyShackleford
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But how is this a knock on Hillary? If anything, it makes those people that got sucker look bad.
And before you knocked her for saying whatever it takes to get elected, but now she should have pandered better. You really think you're judging her fairly?
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I don't wish tragedy on anyone but its going to be a sight to see when this dude has to deal with something real.
dacomeup
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**** is unreal
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That Breakfast Club interview was the worst thing I've seen a politician do to get people in my "demographic" to vote for them. It just came off as fake.
Donald Trump was appealing to his base on his spare time with the birther BS for years before he got into the race. So when he goes full on Xeno it was believable to that crowd.
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Trump knows he ain't getting the Black vote. He did that **** to give his dumbass base "proof" he's not racist.
RustyShackleford
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Here is the thing, the thing I think many progressives don't realize, Hillary's message doesn't land like that on everyone.
When you are marginalized by the socioeconomic system, you focus on the oppressive forces that are right in front of you, not the ones doing the major damage in the background.
A single mother struggling couldn't give a **** about our trade deals, a dude that is getting railroaded by the criminal justice system doesn't care about single payer, and the immigrant hiding in fear doesn't give a damb about Wall Street speculation. Many progressives, especially Bernie, struggle when they can't repeat their stump speech.
They wa many white progressive talk about social issue disgust me because the implicitly paint them as not as important or borderline inconsequential. If their platform can be instituted, that should take care of most issues. It is dangerous to fall into the line of thinking.
Hillary Clinton's talent (or skill built through preparation) is that she knows, and can verbalize the most pressing issue facing nearly everyone in the Democratic base. They need this, I can do this for them, and can cut a deal here. She is not about sweeping changes, she is about incremental gains. That might be a turn off for a progressive hungry for revolution to overthrow the horrible economic system will live under, but for the oppressed, it still represents a lot.
I told all my Bernie Bros friends, when they needed an explanation about why black people didn't "give Bernie a chance", is that when you're marginalized, gaining equal participation (even in a crooked system) seems like an improvement. And that is fundamentally how Hillary won the primary, by not promising the world, but promising better. To progressive that might seem like crumbs, but to the person struggling, it might be the world.
And I will keep harping on this because I feel it goes beyond just progressives doing more to attract black and brown voters. If some progressive keep acting like policies that will improve the lives of the marginalized as beneath them (The ACA, Dodd-Frank, $12 minimum wage) or secondary (immigration reform, criminal justice reform, etc.) they will never gain control of the Democratic party. The Hillary Clintons and Cory Bookers of the world will always out flank them when the time comes.
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All other variables being constant, women in politics are playing the game on a harder difficultly setting.
The same set of behavior can make a women seem like a female dog while a male will seem like an "alpha." An emphatic and expressive male politician is passionate while a women who does the same thing is "emotional."
It also should be noted that to the extent that there is gender solidarity, there is much more brotherhood than there is sisterhood. Low income men and even men of color feel more connection with wealthy and white conservative politicians then do wealthy white women feel a connection with another women who is running for office.
In some ways the politics of gender and sex is different from the politics of race and ethnicity but in other ways it is very much the same. We have dog whistles, internalized oppression, public and psychological wages and the fact that for dominant groups even a little bit of equality feels like oppression.
The same set of behavior can make a women seem like a female dog while a male will seem like an "alpha." An emphatic and expressive male politician is passionate while a women who does the same thing is "emotional."
It also should be noted that to the extent that there is gender solidarity, there is much more brotherhood than there is sisterhood. Low income men and even men of color feel more connection with wealthy and white conservative politicians then do wealthy white women feel a connection with another women who is running for office.
In some ways the politics of gender and sex is different from the politics of race and ethnicity but in other ways it is very much the same. We have dog whistles, internalized oppression, public and psychological wages and the fact that for dominant groups even a little bit of equality feels like oppression.
RustyShackleford
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You are now looking for things to nitpick.
Politicians go where their voice would be heard. Hillary pitch to African American didn't begin and end at the Breakfast Club. Hell even Bernie went up there.
And it was not Trump's "base" that handed him the victory. Moderate Republicans feel in line, and their was enough suckas in the Rust belt.
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