***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[EddieDoyers]

 

[RustyShackleford]

METH!!!!!!!!!

 

[IATT]

 

[boris]

P strange to tell people if there was nothing to hide.

 

[EddieDoyers]

Man yikes at the whole Ben Shapiro at Berkeley situation. Even though I disagree with the man on many ideas, don't think it merited such a protest.

And smh at Tariq for calling Ben a fake Jew......the last thing you want to attack a person is on their religion.

 

[rexanglorum]

The COALition looks very unstable for the GOP already....they always bicker over the smallest issues.
Only thing that kept them together for 7 years was the hate for Obama.

I have to disagree somewhat. The GOP coalition is remarkably stable and cohesive. The only thing that can destabilize it is when the party leaders go "soft" on immigration. The last time they won with a "RINO" or "****" was in 2004 when with George W. Bush. Since 2006, the fate of the GOP or the fate of certain GOP politicians has hinged almost entirely on how ruthless they are towards Latino immigrants.

The press, the so called liberal media, does a terrible job of reporting this. Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush and Rick Perry did poorly in the primaries entirely because of their somewhat softer stances on Mexican/Latino immigration. McCain and Romney lost in 2008 and 2012 because they could not stoke sufficient white outrage and fear over immigration. The press would have us believe that GOP candidates lose because of debate "gaffes." Donald Trump showed how unpolished you can be, as long as you can snarl at Mexicans, the GOP base will love you.

METH!!!!!!!!!

In some alternate dimension, the self hating, Haitian, Bronx residing Samuraighetto is like "Redman, m'aidez."

 

[EddieDoyers]

I have to disagree somewhat. The GOP coalition is remarkably stable and cohesive. The only thing that can destabilize it is when the party leaders go "soft" on immigration. The last time they won with a "RINO" or "****" was in 2004 when with George W. Bush. Since 2006, the fate of the GOP or the fate of certain GOP politicians has hinged almost entirely on how ruthless they are towards Latino immigrants.

The press, the so called liberal media, does a terrible job of reporting this. Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush and Rick Perry did poorly in the primaries entirely because of their somewhat softer stances on Mexican/Latino immigration. McCain and Romney lost in 2008 and 2012 because they could not stoke sufficient white outrage and fear over immigration. The press would have us believe that GOP candidates lose because of debate "gaffes." Donald Trump showed how unpolished you can be, as long as you can snarl at Mexicans, the GOP base will love you.



In some alternate dimension, the self hating, Haitian, Bronx residing Samuraighetto is like "Redman, m'aidez."

Currently, I see three factions that are on the verge of civil war. GOPe, Tea Partiers, and Trumpers have been throwing blame at each other due to ineffectiveness and a lack of clear agenda other than moves of "limited government".

They were able to stick around and support each other as an obstructionist party for 7 years. However, now they got many mouths to feed and govern with a mix of neocons, neoliberals, and hardcore conservatives; and the problem with this is that their ideology of the party as a whole is that there are few winners and many losers. They will eventually lose a sizeable amount of whatever they choose to legislate, or most likely oppose.

I can agree with you that they have been united on white supremacy....but the recent spotlight has been on not just immigration and race, but also economics and healthcare the past couple months. And boy they aren't looking good at the latter half.

 

[rexanglorum]

Currently, I see three factions that are on the verge of civil war. GOPe, Tea Partiers, and Trumpers have been throwing blame at each other due to ineffectiveness and a lack of clear agenda other than moves of "limited government".

They were able to stick around and support each other as an obstructionist party for 7 years. However, now they got many mouths to feed and govern with a mix of neocons, neoliberals, and hardcore conservatives; and the problem with this is that their ideology of the party as a whole is that there are few winners and many losers. They will eventually lose a sizeable amount of whatever they choose to legislate, or most likely oppose.

I can agree with you that they have been united on white supremacy....but the recent spotlight has been on not just immigration and race, but also economics and healthcare the past couple months. And boy they aren't looking good at the latter half.

Ok, I see what you mean.

I am thinking more the GOP voting base which has more reliable turnout than the Democratic voting base. Since Bush's reelection in 2004, the worst GOP elections have been those where part of their base see them as being "weak" on immigration (an issue that is a proxy for the party or a candidate's commitment to white supremacy overall). The most spectacular falls in GOP primary politics have coincided with support for modest immigration reform (Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush, Rick Perry) and the most spectacular rise happened on the back of the most virulent anti immigration rhetoric in the form of Donald Trump.

To your point, absolutely, the GOP's Congressional Caucus is paralyzed. Most Republican do not care at all for limited government, they never really cared about the National Debt and they never really cared much about the free market. They just held those positions as a way to oppose a Black President who introduced laws that allowed more people to have health insurance.

With Trump in the White House, most of the GOP Caucus is back to doing what it really wants to do, making rich people richer and poor people poorer. And yet, eight years of zealotry and professions of libertarian ideology have caused small but crucial part of the GOP caucus to actually come to care about deficits and the role of government. Meanwhile, there is another sliver of their caucus that wants to get reelected and happen to not be in a gerrymandered district so they now have to be somewhat practical and give some modicum of thought to their own constituents.

GOP Congressmen are like the robots in West World. The Koch Brothers and Camber of Commerce dispatched these robots to claim to hate government. It was all a ruse to stop Obama. Now with Obama out, the robots have been commanded to destroy healthcare and push debt financed tax cuts for the supper rich. Turns out that a small number of the bots developed sentience and someone now, they either believe their previous Obama era protocols or they have come to have feelings for their constituents.

 

[aepps20]

SMH WOW YIKES BYKES. Only think I dislike more than LIBBIES ARE RINOS. Don has to keep fighting against LIBBIE AND RINO CONJECTURE AND INNUENDO. MUNSTER and TURTLE are obstructing justice by being themselves. Hopefully MY PRESIDENT uses EXECUTIVE BRANCH of government to LOCK UP SESSIONS, MUNSTER AND TURTLE. Hopefully DAPPER Don can remove funding from MUNSTER AND TURTLE and knock them out LIKE the undertaker.

 

[Nike Jordan]

 

[PatRiley]

All right, I am home in front of a PC. Lemme cook.

Quite frankly, you a pedal a half truth, serve with a heaping side of BS.

Barack Obama faced amble resistance in his first term. The GOP took over the House in 2010. They lost they fragile 60 vote coalition in a little over a year into the first term after a special election in MA. There was never a liberal Democratic super majority. The fragile 60 vote block consisted of Lieberman who left the party and support McCain btw. And a hand full over right leaning Dems. They only got the 60th vote after Specter joined in early of this year. Franken was not seated until the summer because of GOP inference, Kennedy died that lead to a special election that the Dems lost in early 2010. The moderate Republican were on notice that working with Obama on major policy would result in them losing chairman positions and not proper support for reelection.

There was never a superiority Obama could been to his will. THAT IS ********. I have explained to you a million times. It exist for only like what 70-90 legislative days it you count them up. And the Dem Congress with Obama were super productive. They saved the economy from depression and they passed one the most important bills in America's history.

BTW, the Tea Party was already cooking weeks into the presidency. The held tax day protest and a massive one in September of 2009. The ACA was not even signed yet. I lived in DC buddy, don't try to tell me what went on in my town.

Furthermore, you as sooooooooooo intellectually dishonest. You lie about the passing of the ACA, talking about how the Dems rammed it though. Yet you complain now they didn't do the same for something you wanted. Well Edwin, is it Oochie Wally or One Mic. What principled stance are you gonna take finally. You can't hop back and forth when it suits you.

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Real quick as a general statement for everyone:

Eddie is right, Obama's record on immigration reform is mixed. Not because didn't pass immigration reform or because he deported so many people. Obama's deportation record can't be compared to previous presents because a) the way deportation were counted changed under Bush. Catch and release (I hate this vile term btw) didn't used to count and after 9/11 ICE started to talk on a law enforcement slant and when into the criminal justice system to get people out in a way they had not before.

Obama's sin was playing politics with immigration reform. Like criminal justice reform he knew the blowback and tried to manage it instead of going all in. Waiting at the best times to push it. I have been giving thought to the back and forth me and Rex had about pardons and the more I think of it the more he and anyone else has a right to be upset at Obama's actions. People voted for him to me different, not just better. He should have tried the Moses act more because that is what people put their faith in him for.

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To be honest you and anyone else that cares about immigration have a legit reason to be upset Obama didn't go all in. But that doesn't give you the right to rewrite history to further your partisan talking point. Obama faced challenges to pass it in his first term. It was not the breeze you wanna lie to convince people it was.

And you are doing all this to absolve yourself from the fact you support a vile xenophobic bigot that wants to kick 800,000 innocent people out the country for no good reason. An act you swore you would have a problem with, but now you dismiss it like is nothing. The time as come and all you wanna do to deflect is blame Obama for not protecting immigrants (probably people close to you too) from the bigot you help put in power and still cape for. Like how morally bankrupt can one person be. Is it so hard for you condemn Trump for the DACA? Huh?

And miss me with the court nonsense with DACA. When Trump Muslim ban was instituted you defended it even after the courts slapped in down. I'm tired of having to entertain your hypocrisy Ninja.

Like Meth said stop putting party over country, and over principle. Furthermore stop putting defending Trump over your people, and over basic decency.

I don't have to admit anything. Just because this time you are not trying to pedal a lie as the truth, just a half-truth as fact, you still spewing arrant bull ****.

Miss me with that Squealer.

He's over 30 years old living with his mom. What are you doing this for

 

[aepps20]

RustyShackleford you need to put HANDS on this guy ASAP for disreking the Mrs. SMH YIKES BYKES WOW. COAL GANG ready to assist if needed. @Belgium already has the PAPA Vlad Musket if needed.

 

[ninjahood]

I thinking that Chuck Schumer is trying to recreate those conditions in the run up to 2018. Make Donald Trump look like a RINO

Which is gonna fail again because Trump didn't run as a doctrinaire conservative.

If DACA passes and Trump gets funding for his wall, shows over folks, nothing to see here.

 

[ninjahood]

Barack Obama faced amble resistance in his first term. The GOP took over the House in 2010

this dude botches his whole Keyboard rant on da 1st sentence

so rusty, why didn't IMMIGRATION REFORM get da priority over cap & trade before da midterm elections wiped out Democrats in da House of Representatives?

there is no answer other than they botched it, period.

 

[ninjahood]

Barack Obama faced amble resistance in his first term. The GOP took over the House in 2010. They lost they fragile 60 vote coalition in a little over a year into the first term after a special election in MA. There was never a liberal Democratic super majority. The fragile 60 vote block consisted of Lieberman who left the party and support McCain btw. And a hand full over right leaning Dems. They only got the 60th vote after Specter joined in early of this year. Franken was not seated until the summer because of GOP inference, Kennedy died that lead to a special election that the Dems lost in early 2010. The moderate Republican were on notice that working with Obama on major policy would result in them losing chairman positions and not proper support for reelection.

that's what this smoldering pile of nothing burger looks like

immigration reform didn't need a super Democratic vote majority to pass , you know Paul Ryan of all people is a HUGE pro immigration..

In the 1990s, for example, Ryan blocked a GOP-led bill to reduce immigration by allying with immigration advocates Cesar Conda and Grover Norquist, plus open-borders lawmakers ex-Rep. Jack Kemp and then-Rep. Sam Brownback.

The Washington Times wrote in a 2012 article that Ryan:

“Worked to water down the strict immigration limits in a bill [Rep.] Lamar Smith, Texas Republican, was working to pass in the mid-1990s… As a staffer in Washington, he worked for Jack Kemp and Sen. Sam Brownback — both of whom were part of the Republicans’ pro-immigration wing, and who fought crackdown efforts from within their own party… As a congressman, he voted for a 2002 legalization bill, praised the 2006 Senate immigration bill backed by Mr. Bush and co-sponsored a 2009 Democratic bill that would have legalized immigrant farmworkers.”

As Bloomberg’s John Heilemann reported in 1996, “[Ryan’s] ties to the pro-immigration mafia ran deep. A protégé of [Cesar] Conda and an ally of [Rick] Swartz [founder of the pro-amnesty National Immigration Forum], Ryan was the staffer who had aided Jack Kemp and William Bennett in their crusade against [California’s] Proposition 187.”

In 2013, Ryan worked “every day” to pass Obama’s mass-amnesty bill for all of America’s illegal immigrant population, said pro-amnesty Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-FL).

In 2013, Ryan’s ally in the 1990s, Conda, worked as chief of staff to Sen. Marco Rubio, the main GOP promoter of the amnesty-and-mass-immigration bill.


Pro-borders activists like Roy Beck worry that if an open-borders ideologue like Paul Ryan is propelled to the Speakership, he would also block legislation – or even messaging – to boost border security.

If Ryan runs for the House Speakership, then pro-border lawmakers, including Rep. Mo Brooks, Rep. Duncan Hunter and Rep. Steve King – and others who have kept a low profile in the recent leadership fights – would likely quickly take a more active role.

Rusty got NO ANSWER for Obama NOT passing immigration reform.

 

[ninjahood]

Ryan sparks split on immigration
Mixed record on issue divides rights activists, business interests

By Stephen Dinan - The Washington Times - Monday, August 13, 2012
Rep. Paul Ryan could be Mitt Romney’s olive branch to voters who want to see illegal immigrants gain legal status, with the Wisconsin Republican having repeatedly backed legalization efforts and cast himself in the mold of former President George W. Bush, who fought a battle with his own party on the issue.

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/13/ryan-sparks-split-on-immigration/

Obama(and Rusty for his Obvious immigration blind spot in his political bonafides) gonna take da L for this.

its CLEAR you dunno what you're talking about.

 

[ninjahood]

President: Paul Ryan 'Terrifying,' 'Open Borders Seeps Out of Every Pore Of His Being' - Breitbart

• 
  

by JULIA HAHN 11 Oct 2015 COMMENTS ↓

As donor class Republicans and beltway pundits intensify their “Draft Ryan” campaign, anti-amnesty advocates are pleading with House Republicans to quash the candidacy of the man they call the most open-borders member of Congress.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...yan-terrifying-open-borders-seeps-every-pore/

here's a Breitbart one for good measure.

Rusty insinuating that da Democrats needed a supermajority in Congress to pass immigration reform ALA Obamacare in da 1st term enshrines that homeboy doesn't know wtf u talking bout in regards to da subject, nor da players as far as advocacy and proponents of its merits.

 

[ninjahood]

And you are doing all this to absolve yourself from the fact you support a vile xenophobic bigot that wants to kick 800,000 innocent people out the country for no good reason

Trump is da one who's actually gonna get legislation passed to keep em here, unlike Obama's weak *** executive order that da courts were gonna dismantle ANYWAYS.

 

[rillo561]

So, Trump is going to get something done with the dreamers....with the help of Democrats, is that what you're saying?

 

[ninjahood]

So, Trump is going to get something done with the dreamers....with the help of Democrats, is that what you're saying?

and chamber of commerce republican theologians.

 

[rillo561]

and chamber of commerce republican theologians.

But he needs Democrats support? Right?

 

[gry60]

Which is gonna fail again because Trump didn't run as a doctrinaire conservative.

If DACA passes and Trump gets funding for his wall, shows over folks, nothing to see here.

You have no idea what Trump's base looks like or thinks. There is nothing more important to them than restricting immigration, and that's coming from the spokespeople of that group (Breitbart, American Greatness, Stormfront). They would not accept DACA even if the Great Wall of China appeared on the southern border tomorrow. Of course, it is useless to mention that you are missing the entire subtext of their anti-immigration stance, which really is the first step towards a monoracial America.

 

[ninjahood]

But he needs Democrats support? Right?

he doesn't need it, because its gonna happen anyways by osmosis, we're talking DACA afterall.

what Trump is doing is using DACA as leverage to get his wall funded, because anyone who couldn't already tell, GOP leadership ALSO want DACA so they're letting him get da Bipartisan PR and shielding themselves behind "Trump went to da Democrats and not us so we got nothing to do with it" with da more conservative strain of da party.

 

[rillo561]

We'll see, it's all speculation at this point. Where was this GOP "leadership" that wanted DACA when Obama was in office?

 

[ninjahood]

You have no idea what Trump's base looks like or thinks. There is nothing more important to them than restricting immigration

once again, you're wrong.

you're conflating legal immigration with illegal immigration.

that RAISE act to restrict LEGAL immgration Aint going anywhere and da base care zilch about it.

illegal immigration is what da furor is all about, hence "da wall".