***Official Political Discussion Thread***

RustyShackleford said:
First Obama was always a unify behind whoever wins person guy. His appeal to Sanders supporters seem genuine to me, he advocated for structural change, he said implicity rebuked the argument of going back to the way things were. Also Obama is not responsible for Biden's platform. So I don't understand how Biden moving left on policy has to do with Obama seeming more genuine.

Secondly, if Bernie won, would his supporters be saying that Bernie has to move towards Joe's platform, water down his policies to appease Biden supporters and Sanders skeptics? I highly doubt it. We got a small taste of what the rhetoric would be like after Nevada, I think if Sanders pulled it off they would championing a victory for leftist policies and calling for people to get over it and unify because beating Trump is the most important thing. I doubt someone like AOC would be taking the same tone if her guy won.

I would like Biden to move left on aggregate, and I don't have an issue with people pressuring a leftward move, but at the end of the day dude won so people will need to temper their expectations of how much they can get out of dude, and his platform is pretty progressive already. So come November people gonna have to swallow it.
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u would be hilarious in the Illuminati conspiracy thread
 
nawghtyhare said:
gotta read the last like 20 pages or so
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Scanned like two pages, saw what is being posted and noticed some of the active posters...
giphy.gif
 
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My point in bringing Obama into this is that until there are concessions of substance made, the talk of unity really just is kumbaya. And you’re right neither side has to make concessions to come to a compromise with the losing group. But there’s also a difference between making calls for it and saying you are on the surface, and actually doing so.

And yes Joe’s platform is relatively left, but it’s also still miles apart from Sanders, so it’s not going to appeal much to his faction. Like AOC put it, unification is a process. And so far there hasn’t been any real process and substance to close that gap that was miles apart when people were last able to decide between the two in the primaries.
 
This unity talk needs to be immediately put into the right perspectives
There needs to first be an unified understanding that the over ripe orange needs to go
The work to unify the Democratic party and create a unified voice and a unified message needs to wait until after the election

Just like they do in the super hero movies
They don't all agree on everything but they do agree that they can't let evil prevail, and they put their differences aside and come together to do what needs to be done to save humanity and mankind
 
flyeed said:
My point in bringing Obama into this is that until there are concessions of substance made, the talk of unity really just is kumbaya. And you’re right neither side has to make concessions to come to a compromise with the losing group. But there’s also a difference between making calls for it and saying you are on the surface, and actually doing so.

And yes Joe’s platform is relatively left, but it’s also still miles apart from Sanders, so it’s not going to appeal much to his faction. Like AOC put it, unification is a process. And so far there hasn’t been any real process and substance to close that gap that was miles apart when people were last able to decide between the two in the primaries.
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Yeah but I'm a saying that the people on Bernie's side have this view on unity because they lost. Not saying Biden should reach out to them especially though policy concessions, but the complaints from the Berniesphere is whatever to me because I believe if the shoe was on the other foot, they would be acting in the same manner they take issue with now. Not taking issue with the argument AOC is making, I somewhat agree, I just don't really take it as a principled argument coming from her and many others.
 
mr s j king said:
This unity talk needs to be immediately put into the right perspectives
There needs to first be an unified understanding that the over ripe orange needs to go
The work to unify the Democratic party and create a unified voice and a unified message needs to wait until after the election

Just like they do in the super hero movies
They don't all agree on everything but they do agree that they can't let evil prevail, and they put their differences aside and come together to do what needs to be done to save humanity and mankind
Click to expand...

Thing is that if you make it too easy you lose all your leverage and there’s 0 incentive for coming to a middle ground after the the election is over.

i do agree that ultimately that’s priority number one. But at the moment, in April, I actually think I prefer the liberal part of the party to play hardball. But when it comes to the business end of this then I agree people gotta put differences aside.
 
flyeed said:
Thing is that if you make it too easy you lose all your leverage and there’s 0 incentive for coming to a middle ground after the the election is over.

i do agree that ultimately that’s priority number one. But at the moment, in April, I actually think I prefer the liberal part of the party to play hardball. But when it comes to the business end of this then I agree people gotta put differences aside.
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The only person that really has any leverage is Bernie. He already endorsed Joe, and Joe is working with his people and Warren. Bernie's people will probably have a hand in writing the Party Platform.

If anyone else think they got some leverage over Joe, they are mistaken.

I feel Joe problem with some diehards can't be fixed with policy either.
 
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RustyShackleford said:
Yeah but I'm a saying that the people on Bernie's side have this view on unity because they lost. Not saying Biden should reach out to them especially though policy concessions, but the complaints from the Berniesphere is whatever to me because I believe if the shoe was on the other foot, they would be acting in the same manner they take issue with now. Not taking issue with the argument AOC is making, I somewhat agree, I just don't really take it as a principled argument coming from her and many others.
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The framework that many are operating under (including me and you) is that the more left you go, the fewer people die, end up homeless, end up disabled, end up sick. If Bernie had won and had the major leverage, his move towards the center, moving rightward, kills people. Right now, Bernie people are trying to use the leverage they have to pull Biden as left as possible.

The same reason, I'll vote for Biden over Trump and try to pressure Biden to move as left as possible, is the same reason why I'd implore Bernie, had he won, to not move rightward, on policy.
 
RustyShackleford said:
The only person that really has any leverage is Bernie. He already endorsed Joe, and Joe is working with his people and Warren. Bernie's people will probably have a hand in writing the Party Platform.

If anyone else think they got some leverage over Joe, they are mistaken.
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that’s what I’m thinking, but I don’t think there’s that much to lose right now too. Worst case at least your following is pleased that you stood up for them and made them feel heard. And then if you do get behind Biden later on it can be more impactful on them to have a change of heart too. Whereas if you turn too quickly your constituents/following might feel like you abandoned them. Best case Joe’s campaign hits the panic button realizing if they’re really going to win this they’ll have to bring the left side of the party to the table.
 
rexanglorum said:
The framework that many are operating under (including me and you) is that the more left you go, the fewer people die, end up homeless, end up disabled, end up sick. If Bernie had won and had the major leverage, his move towards the center, moving rightward, kills people. Right now, Bernie people are trying to use the leverage they have to pull Biden as left as possible.

The same reason, I'll vote for Biden over Trump and try to pressure Biden to move as left as possible, is the same reason why I'd implore Bernie, had he won, to not move rightward, on policy.
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Ok I agree.

Just saying that these unity arguments people are upset by, they would have been peddling too if Sanders would have won. If Sanders was the nominee, and people didn't like the Sanders as the nominee, and we couldn't get them to buy into the policy, there would be a ton of "He is better than Trump" "we gotta get Trump out at all cost" steez too.

But I understand, it sucks to always being at the receiving end of that rhetoric.
 
RustyShackleford said:
Ok I agree.

Just saying that these unity arguments people are upset by, they would have been peddling too if Sanders would have won. If Sanders was the nominee, and people didn't like the Sanders as the nominee, and we couldn't get them to buy into the policy, there would be a ton of "He is better than Trump" "we gotta get Trump out at all cost" steez too.

But I understand, it sucks to always being at the receiving end of that rhetoric.
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For the first week or two it'd be crazy and even for me, cringe, in terms of what a lot of rose emoji twitter would be posting. I also imagine that some number of centrist and "never Trump" republicans would start musing out loud that maybe Trump is better because he's anti-Castro and believes in property rights etc.

When it comes to rank and file Biden voters though, Bernie's side would not even have to make a unity argument or a lesser of two evils case because the average Biden primary voter really does want to beat Trump above all else so the Sanders side would not even have to make a case.

edit: I'm not even joking too much here but, if Biden wants to maximize his vote total, his best bet to gesture rightward, culturally. Biden will have, no matter what, the votes of every one who voted for him and Harris and Buttigieg and Warren in the primary as well as like 80% of those who supported Bernie (including my dumbass **** self). Who are those 20% of Bernie's primary voters who are holdouts, are they Maoists, Troskites, Jucheists? Well, some are but most are Joe Rogan types. Alienated (mostly) white young men who have a confused ideology. They liked Bernie personally because they do know that deep down, their destiny is being plotted by someone else. We know that someone else is capital but they think its feminists, they think they are downwardly mobile because of women video game characters.

So Joe Biden, get out there and eschew the racism of Trump but hammer home your opposition to the new Star Wars, rail against women with blue and/or purple hair and vow to rename Istanbul "Constantinople." Give those Joker fanboys cultural red meat while not having to give them anything materially because those guys who claim to read Neitzsche, those are the real swing vote in 2020.
 
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why is thanks obama trending on twitter??? makes no dam sense. as a WHOLE we should be thanking our president-elect trump for the wonderful job that he's doing!!!!
 
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