:::[Official] San Francisco 49ers 2012-2013 Season Thread - Training Camp Starts July 27:::

I don't get it, in a 1.5 seasons that Alex had a good coaching staff he succeeded... So obviously with the right personnel and coaching staff he will continue to do what he did these past 2 seasons... Telling me he can't be a starter for teams like the Jags, Cards, Browns or is it that the teams who have their young QBs are willing to stick it out with their young ones???

He has to have some trade value... Any pick is better is better than no pick
 
ii FLaSh ii said:
I don't get it, in a 1.5 seasons that Alex had a good coaching staff he succeeded... So obviously with the right personnel and coaching staff he will continue to do what he did these past 2 seasons... Telling me he can't be a starter for teams like the Jags, Cards, Browns or is it that the teams who have their young QBs are willing to stick it out with their young ones???

He has to have some trade value... Any pick is better is better than no pick
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You say with the right personnel, Alex can do what he did the last 2 seasons. Then you go on to say he could start for the Jags, Cards or Browns. Do you think that those teams have "the right personnel?" I dont.

I think that you would see Alex play closer to pre-Harbaugh level Alex with said teams than the one you saw with Harbaugh.
 
dland24 said:
There is no way in hell that Alex will remain a 49er next season unless he agrees to a massive pay cut. Management is probably just saying we would keep him rather than release him to bump up his trade value. Theres no way that we will have a backup QB making $8M a year. Period.
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Would we eat his 3 million guaranteed or let him walk for nothing? Cause those are the two most likely options to avoid the 8 million. Management isnt just looking at Alex making 8 mill, they look at all the QBs on the roster and the total they make together. The total Kaep and Alex make together isnt a huge hit on the cap since Kaep makes about a mill. Alex isnt going to take a pay cut to stay here. He wants to start elsewhere.
 
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Is Alex Smith > Andy Dalton? I think so. Maybe not by much, but he is.

Smith > Ponder? Definitely.
Smith > Locker? Yes.
Smith > Peyton? No, but Peyton's hourglass is almost up.
Smith > Rivers? At this point, yes. The last two Alex years have far exceeded the output of Rivers.
Smith > Cassel/Quinn? No doubt.
Smith > Weeden? Yes. AND! Norv Turner is there...

Somebody has got to trade something for Alex.
 
MertonHanks said:
dland24 said:
There is no way in hell that Alex will remain a 49er next season unless he agrees to a massive pay cut. Management is probably just saying we would keep him rather than release him to bump up his trade value. Theres no way that we will have a backup QB making $8M a year. Period.
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Would we eat his 3 million guaranteed or let him walk for nothing? Cause those are the two most likely options to avoid the 8 million. Management isnt just looking at Alex making 8 mill, they look at all the QBs on the roster and the total they make together. The total Kaep and Alex make together isnt a huge hit on the cap since Kaep makes about a mill. Alex isnt going to take a pay cut to stay here. He wants to start elsewhere.
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I dont think Alex would take a pay cut to stay here either. I was just speaking in terms of people saying that we could just keep him.

As far as your total salary of both our starter and backup being a good cap number goes.....Ive heard it before.....dont buy it and frankly think its a terrible excuse. So just because our starting QB only makes $1M, that makes it acceptable to pay our backup QB more than FOUR TIMES the average backup QB's salary? That money can be used elsewhere, and should be.

And as far as you saying his $3M guaranteed....can you please provide me with a link explaining this? From my understanding, if we want to trade Alex, we would have to wait until after a certain date in early March (the date which a $1M roster bonus kicks in).....and if we dont trade or cut Alex before April 1st, he is guaranteed $7.5M. That was my understanding. I never heard anything about a $3M being guaranteed.
 
I wouldnt take Alex over Dalton or Rivers. Definitely over Ponder, Cassell, Quinn tho.

I realistically dont see any other team saying " Alex Smith is the solution to our QB problems, we're willing to trade a mid round draft pick for him"

Alex is Solid, but he needs to be in a great situation to have success. Hes not going to have success on a team that doesnt already have a good running game and good o line.
 
dland24 said:
I dont think Alex would take a pay cut to stay here either. I was just speaking in terms of people saying that we could just keep him.

As far as your total salary of both our starter and backup being a good cap number goes.....Ive heard it before.....dont buy it and frankly think its a terrible excuse. So just because our starting QB only makes $1M, that makes it acceptable to pay our backup QB more than FOUR TIMES the average backup QB's salary? That money can be used elsewhere, and should be.

And as far as you saying his $3M guaranteed....can you please provide me with a link explaining this? From my understanding, if we want to trade Alex, we would have to wait until after a certain date in early March (the date which a $1M roster bonus kicks in).....and if we dont trade or cut Alex before April 1st, he is guaranteed $7.5M. That was my understanding. I never heard anything about a $3M being guaranteed.
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Agree with 100% on that back up making 8 mill is ridickadick.

Alex already has 1 million guaranteed to him, plus the 1 million roster bonus. He has a couple other incentives that would give him bonuses should be not be gone by the start of the new league year. Totalling around 2.5 or alittle over that. It would be atleast 2 million assuming we dont get rid of by the new league year.
 
MertonHanks said:
dland24 said:
I dont think Alex would take a pay cut to stay here either. I was just speaking in terms of people saying that we could just keep him.

As far as your total salary of both our starter and backup being a good cap number goes.....Ive heard it before.....dont buy it and frankly think its a terrible excuse. So just because our starting QB only makes $1M, that makes it acceptable to pay our backup QB more than FOUR TIMES the average backup QB's salary? That money can be used elsewhere, and should be.

And as far as you saying his $3M guaranteed....can you please provide me with a link explaining this? From my understanding, if we want to trade Alex, we would have to wait until after a certain date in early March (the date which a $1M roster bonus kicks in).....and if we dont trade or cut Alex before April 1st, he is guaranteed $7.5M. That was my understanding. I never heard anything about a $3M being guaranteed.
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Agree with 100% on that back up making 8 mill is ridickadick.

Alex already has 1 million guaranteed to him, plus the 1 million roster bonus. He has a couple other incentives that would give him bonuses should be not be gone by the start of the new league year. Totalling around 2.5 or alittle over that. It would be atleast 2 million assuming we dont get rid of by the new league year.
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Pretty sure there isnt a $1M guarantee plus the $1M roster bonus. I think they are one and the same. I think that kicks in the first or second week of March. An we will have no choice to give that to him if we want to trade him. It would give us a 2+ week window to trade him before the $7.5M is guaranteed. I am pretty sure the incentives were from this season and were not met.

That is just my understanding. Dont mean to argue with you bro. I definitely could be wrong.

Can anyone else chime in on this?
 
Lightweight Champion said:
Is Alex Smith > Andy Dalton? I think so. Maybe not by much, but he is.

Smith > Ponder? Definitely.
Smith > Locker? Yes.
Smith > Peyton? No, but Peyton's hourglass is almost up.
Smith > Rivers? At this point, yes. The last two Alex years have far exceeded the output of Rivers.
Smith > Cassel/Quinn? No doubt.
Smith > Weeden? Yes. AND! Norv Turner is there...

Somebody has got to trade something for Alex.
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Yes (AP would have get so many YAC yards after check downs)
Yes
No way
No
Yes
They will be in last place reguardless

Smith> Sanchez/Tebow? Yes
Smith> Chad Hene? Yes
 
I just think that for every team that people think Alex would be a great fit for, there is a valid reason to think that team would NOT be interested. People thinking Alex is currently better doesnt mean that team would be willing to trade for Alex.

Vikings- They just drafted a QB in the first round 2 seasons ago. They will not be giving up on Ponder, and have already publicly stated that they will not be.

Browns- Just drafted a QB in the first round last season. They wont be giving up on him already. Especially because he actually had a decent season for a rookie QB on a terrible team. They will at the very least, give him another season or two before they look elsewhere.

Jets- What GM in their right mind would pay close to $20M for the combination of Mark Sanchez and Alex Smith? Not even the Jets GM would be this dumb.

Titans- Similar to the Vikings and Browns scenario. They drafted a QB in the first round and are ready to give up on him after 16 NFL starts? And they would be willing to trade a high pick for Alex when they have so many other glaring holes?

Chiefs- Sure, there is probably interest here. But again, would Andy Reid rather trade a high pick for a QB making $7.5M or trade a lesser pick for a QB he hand selected a year prior, who is making peanuts compared to Alex. Plus there are already numerous reports about the Chiefs wanting to trade for Foles. And they could end up drafting a QB, which many mocks expect.

Raiders- The Raiders have holes all over their team. As terrible as they were last year, Carson Palmer is not the reason they were that bad. Plus they would have to eat a ton of money to cut Carson. Cutting a player that they invested two high picks in, would waste a ton of money for, and have to give up a pick one year after they had next to no draft picks? Doesnt make sense here.

Bengals- Not sure why this has even been brought up. There is no way the Bengals would trade for Alex. I dont know what drug you guys are on thinking that Alex is better than Dalton. But even if I was to agree that Alex was slightly better, the Bengals would never give up on a guy that has already been to a Probowl in his 2 year career, and replace him with someone who, at best, is a marginal upgrade.

Jaguars- Seems to be a reoccurring theme here. Do the Jags give up on a top 10 pick after 25 career games? This team is garbage. Not saying Gabbert is great or even good....but what talent does he have around him? He has a terrible pass protecting OL, no WRs, and an injury plagued running back. Not the recipe for success. Bringing in a new QB by trading away a draft pick makes no sense for a team that is as bad as this one.

Chargers- Is QB really a big area of need on this team? Rivers was close to an elite passer before the last two years. But the last two years he hasnt had nearly as bad of seasons as people think. Lightweight Champion, I dont know how you can say that Alex "far exceeded Rivers output over the last two seasons." Rivers had 53 touchdowns and over 8,000 yards over the last two seasons.

Cardinals- Alex is clearly an upgrade to what they have, but would the 49ers trade him within the division? Although I personally would love for our defense to play a quarterback like Alex twice a season, I dont see us trading him to Arizona. And in spite of the tremendous amount of hate that Kevin Kolb gets for his contract, he was on his way to having a decent little season before injuries struck.

Dolphins- Tannehill put together a rookie season that gives reason for optimism. He is no doubt the QB of the future for that team, or at the very least has earned the opportunity to try to be. He isnt going anywhere.


Did I forget anyone?

Look, I am not saying that Alex isnt better than some starting QBs in the NFL....he is. But is he markedly better to the point that these teams would be willing to give up something of value to get him? Like I said, for every team that people think Alex could start on, there is a very good reason why that team wouldnt make the trade. If Alex was a free agent, its a completely different story. But as of right now, he isnt. But I strongly believe he will be very soon.
 
Minnesota - How many more miles does Peterson have on those legs? I'd give it about 4 years. With that said, does anybody think Ponder can reach Top 12 QB status within those 4 years? If not, trading for Alex to have the best RB and a good, playoff proven QB makes a lot of sense to win it all.

Browns - Weeden and Smith are the same age range. Smith has much more experience. Weeden's upside isn't great and his learning curve is way behind. Even if he maximizes himself and finally plays good football he'll most likely be 32 years old by that time. Trading for Alex is better than waiting 4 years to have only 3 more years of good football.

Bengals - I might reserve judgment until Dalton plays someone other than Houston in the playoffs. But from what I've seen he hasn't shown anything that will lead them to a W in the postseason. He has been horrible the last 2 playoffs and has failed to make adjustments and his hot reads.

Chargers - 53 TDs vs 35 INTs for Rivers. 30/10 for Smith in 1.5 seasons. Dland you know as well as I know football comes down to field position. 35 TOs isn't putting your team in a good spot to win football games. And every one of us Niner fans have said the biggest difference between Kaepernick and Smith is the arm strength. Rivers doesn't have great arm strength and neither does Smith. But Smith won't put the defense in tight spots with 30+ TOs.

Dolphins - I never mentioned them.

Jaguars - didn't mention them either . Plus I agree, Alex won't be their savior because that team flat out sucks.

Titans - Locker blows. He's a bust just slightly above Gabbert.

Jets - Same as Jaguars but even more of a circus.

And I'm not saying trade Smith to any team that needs a QB. I'd want to trade him to a team that can contend or where he'll be given the chance to do well, he deserves at least that much.
 
Lightweight Champion said:
Minnesota - How many more miles does Peterson have on those legs? I'd give it about 4 years. With that said, does anybody think Ponder can reach Top 12 QB status within those 4 years? If not, trading for Alex to have the best RB and a good, playoff proven QB makes a lot of sense to win it all.
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If the Vikings didnt think Ponder could reach top 12 QB status, they wouldnt have picked him where they picked him. He is less than 2 seasons into his NFL career. The Vikings have already publicly stated they will not bring in a QB to compete with Ponder. So whether or not you think Alex to the Vikings makes sense, its not going to happen.

Browns - Weeden and Smith are the same age range. Smith has much more experience. Weeden's upside isn't great and his learning curve is way behind. Even if he maximizes himself and finally plays good football he'll most likely be 32 years old by that time. Trading for Alex is better than waiting 4 years to have only 3 more years of good football.
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Why is Weeden's upside not great and how is his learning curve way behind? Do you have anything to back either of those statements up? The Browns pass protection and WRs/TEs are below average. What makes you think that Alex could just plug himself onto that team and produce much better than what Weeden could do. Dont we have enough evidence that Alex needs ideal circumstances to produce average to above average results? Again, the biggest factor here is do the Browns give up on their first round pick from just one season ago? I say they dont.

Bengals - I might reserve judgment until Dalton plays someone other than Houston in the playoffs. But from what I've seen he hasn't shown anything that will lead them to a W in the postseason. He has been horrible the last 2 playoffs and has failed to make adjustments and his hot reads.
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I am noticing a pattern that it seems like your personal opinion of certain QBs skill sets are leading you to believe your opinion is fact. To me, its not what you and I think of these players, its what teams think of their own guys in relation to Alex. I dont see how the Bengals front office would be willing to give up on a 3rd year QB, who has been to a Probowl and led his team to the playoffs twice in as many years, and trade additional a draft pick for a QB that might be a marginal upgrade. Doesnt make sense on any level.

Chargers - 53 TDs vs 35 INTs for Rivers. 30/10 for Smith in 1.5 seasons. Dland you know as well as I know football comes down to field position. 35 TOs isn't putting your team in a good spot to win football games. And every one of us Niner fans have said the biggest difference between Kaepernick and Smith is the arm strength. Rivers doesn't have great arm strength and neither does Smith. But Smith won't put the defense in tight spots with 30+ TOs.
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I watch a lot of Charger games. My brother is a die hard Chargers fan. Phillip Rivers is asked to do exponentially more than Alex was asked to do. Phillip Rivers was a perennial Probowler. Do you think if Rivers was told by his head coach that he would rather him take sacks than try to make a play, that Rivers interception rate wouldnt go down a ton? Thats one thing that is completely overblown by Alex fans....his lack of interceptions. I agree it was key for us that Alex stopped turning the ball over. But with careful play, came very limited production. While Alex may not throw 30 interceptions in 2 seasons, he certainly wont throw 53 touchdown passes either. The way the Chargers are built, they value scoring. Alex would not be an upgrade there.

And for the record, I dont think the biggest difference between Kap and Alex is arm strength. Just because there is a substantial difference there, does NOT mean its the biggest. In my opinion there are a TON of differences between Alex and Kap (making players around him better, completing passes in tight windows, identifying open receivers, playmaking ability, speed, ability to overcome mistakes, ability to make plays outside the design of the play, pocket presence, moving in pocket with eyes downfield, and yes arm strength).

Jaguars - didn't mention them either . Plus I agree, Alex won't be their savior because that team flat out sucks.
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I know you didnt, but I was mentioning them because a lot of people think Alex would be a good fit there.

Titans - Locker blows. He's a bust just slightly above Gabbert.
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Calling someone a bust after 16 NFL starts? :smh: Locker may turn out to be a bust, but you cant call him this yet. And if you have the opinion that Alex couldnt be the savior of the Jags because of how terrible their team is, why is your opinion different about the Titans?

Jets - Same as Jaguars but even more of a circus.
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A lot of people still seem to think just because Alex is better than Sanchez, this could be a landing spot. I seriously doubt it because of money.

And I'm not saying trade Smith to any team that needs a QB. I'd want to trade him to a team that can contend or where he'll be given the chance to do well, he deserves at least that much.
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Again, your personal feelings towards Alex are clouding your ability to think this through. I want Alex to have success too. But teams that need QBs typically arent teams that contend or a place where Alex can succeed. Alex has succeeded when he has had a top tier offensive line, an elite running game and one of the best defenses/special teams in the NFL. How many of those teams need a QB? I know you are going to hate to hear this, but Alex will be lucky to be a starting NFL quarterback in 2013. His best chance of that is if we cut him, and he is allowed to choose his destination. There really isnt a market for him via trade.
 
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Saw Vikings in the thread preview so decided to come in and give my two cents....

It's funny to see folks gassing Smith up and talking about him like he's been playing this efficiently his entire career. Fact is, him and Ponder are the same type of quarterback. The Vikings probably won't trade for a guy that they see Ponder becoming or surpassing this next year. Remember...It took Smith, what, 5 years to get to where he's at today? Ponder has had a year and a half of NFL experience so despite what you feel about what Ponder may become, as of right now his ceiling his higher than Alex and bringing in Alex doesn't make too much sense at this point.

Now, watch it happen. :lol:
 
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i'm thinking the same as dland

#1 rogers sux; CB is an area of dire need.  

#2 why trade for alex if he's just gonna be cut? any team is smart enough to figure that out.
 
My boss is a good friends with someone in the niners front office and was telling me a few things that he was told:
When Goldson was franchised tagged last year, they had a gentlemans agreement that if he came to camp and did his job and not complain that they would not franchise tag him this year....that being said the niners dont think they can afford goldson with a long big contract because they are looking towards the future and other players that will have to pay in 2-3 years. So unless goldson takes a short-term contract, its unlikely he will return.. but who knows.
Niners are going to push Alex Smith to Chiefs...Reid likes Smith. Niners will try to get 2nd rounder.
Niners plan to move up in the draft if they see a player they like in mid early 20's.

The stuff he's told me before has ended up pretty credible, but there's always some doubt sometimes, just wanted to share with you guys.
 
2nd? would be nice, but seems like wishful thinking.

i would be happy with a mid-rounder to be honest. 3rd or 4th? or even 5th? i'll take it!
 
GSDOUBLEU said:
My boss is a good friends with someone in the niners front office and was telling me a few things that he was told:
When Goldson was franchised tagged last year, they had a gentlemans agreement that if he came to camp and did his job and not complain that they would not franchise tag him this year....that being said the niners dont think they can afford goldson with a long big contract because they are looking towards the future and other players that will have to pay in 2-3 years. So unless goldson takes a short-term contract, its unlikely he will return.. but who knows.
Niners are going to push Alex Smith to Chiefs...Reid likes Smith. Niners will try to get 2nd rounder.
Niners plan to move up in the draft if they see a player they like in mid early 20's.

The stuff he's told me before has ended up pretty credible, but there's always some doubt sometimes, just wanted to share with you guys.
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I heard something very similar regarding the Goldson situation last year. I remember when Goldson got tagged, he was still in great spirits saying hes a team guy, he's willing to sacrifice for the team. He didnt complain or voice his displeasure publicly. I been saying this since then, he needs to be our first priority, everything else can come second. No one on our roster can do even half the things he does for our team.
 
So today i just found out who exactly my boss' friend in the front office is, and i know why he's been on the money with what he's told me. This guy handles the contract negotiations himself :lol:
 
Would that be Paraag Marathe? Or does he just handle salary figures and managing our cap?
 
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