Plain clothes Ny cop runs up on black dude, gets shot and dies

[HEATHEN]

The fact that your world-view is skewed and filled with all of this animosity off a few personal experiences, exposes your lack of self-esteem and negative ways of thinking.

Nobody will get ahead in life with that mentality. Everyone encounters difficulties and adversity, the ones who get ahead are the ones who don't let that stop them or make said adversities as permanent stain of their life, becoming old, miserable human beings.

Ah, I knew the overly simplistic counter argument was not far behind.

The good ol' work hard and stay positive and you'll be okay argument.

I've been through the same song and dance with you son.

It's getting old.

Truth is no matter how hard some folks work or how positive their outlook is it doesn't preclude them from being subject to police harassment.

But that's a bit of a different subject isn't it. The fact is you can't stay on topic without falling back on the same tired cliched mantras in every thread.

The fact is you can't grasp the idea that it's not the general public's responsibility to accept poor police work. It's not our job to pardon lazy, baiting, dangerous practices that go against proper protocol.

I nor anybody else should ever have to excuse dangerous transgressions at the hand of those we empower to serve and protect us.

 

[donovandoesit]

Wow. People are still in denial about profiling.

Incredible.

Word its a clear issue in America as a whole.. If people don't realize it they are  just blind.. However I think racial profiling stems from racial stereotypes which Mark Cuban said best we all suffer from. It comes down to simple human science in my opinion people fear what they don't know there for they discriminate/act based on their best examples which are based on age old stereotypes. Funny I just put on CRASH on popcorn time great movie to watch to see exactly what I'm talking about. 

That's what our officers are here to do. Remove these criminals and poorly-raised individuals who gather around the wrong crowd and adopt their ideologies, from the streets.

Why? To make it safer for ALL of us.
Crooked cops deserve to be properly sentenced, but should never be used to generalize this nation's entire police force.

My thoughts exactly bad apples in any demographic of people are used to generalize them 

 just the way of the world. However some reform is needed nationwide in police training to save innocent officers and innocent lives. 

 

[gwap]

 Apparently you're incapable of grasping the fact that there is a middle ground between being too passive and being overly aggressive.

It's called measured, calculated aggressiveness. It's called decisiveness with an emphasis on protocol, recalling your training.

You keep ignoring this factor and continue to fall back into hyperbole and nonsensical parallels to make your convoluted point.

Whatever the hell that is.

I am saying that less aggressive police will lead to more police L's as a whole....

These L's should be applauded and the cops should be mourned...

"recalling your training" would mean acting like darren wilson.

I would rather a cop lose his life from being too lax, than have an innocent citizen shot because the cop was too aggressive...

Same way in the justice system I'd rather a guilty man go free, than an innocent man goto jail....

The cop was caught slipping.... the department statement supports that theory... we should mourn the officer and wait for more info... not make a race baiting thread and people display animosity against an officer who was approaching a black man exactly how we should expect them to approach a man who they are suspicious of but have no evidence against.... 

 

[HEATHEN]

Having a controlled, calculated aggression does not mean acting as Darren Wilson did.

Miss me with that.

Even if he believed Brown was reaching for something (which I do not believe for a second) 12 shots is excessive.

But whatever, you're entitled to your opinion.

Also I didn't make the thread nor have I brought up race once in this thread.

@ he approached a subject believed to be armed exactly how "we should expect" to approach them.

Once an officer has REASONABLE SUSPICION to engage an individual in possession of a firearm I have no problem with them taking the necessary precautions to ensure their safety (no that doesn't mean come out shooting).

But then again I'm apprehensive of the account given by the NYPD, but going with that account I'm not sure they ever had reasonable suspicion if all they saw was an individual adjusting their waistband.

Ultimately that may be somewhat immaterial to this discussion as their suspicions were proven correct.

 

[gwap]

Once an officer has REASONABLE SUSPICION to engage an individual in possession of a firearm I have no problem with them taking the necessary precautions to ensure their safety (no that doesn't mean come out shooting).

He didn't even have reasonable suspicion ..... he didn't see a firearm... wasn't engaging the suspect for a reported crime... all he saw was a black male moving something at his waistline... if that is reasonable suspicion enough to "engage an individual in possession of a firearm" you are advocating aggressive policing.

the departments report on the crime is the only story that would make sense...that's what is so perplexing about the response in this thread.... 

 

[donovandoesit]

 
He didn't even have reasonable suspicion ..... he didn't see a firearm... wasn't engaging the suspect for a reported crime... all he saw was a black male moving something at his waistline... if that is reasonable suspicion enough to "engage an individual in possession of a firearm" you are advocating aggressive policing.

the departments report on the crime is the only story that would make sense...that's what is so perplexing about the response in this thread.... 

When i tell you its easy to spot dudes around here looking for trouble it is.. Not saying cops should go around harassing everyone that looks suspicious im saying that in this area you can tell the people that are up to no good. This is a working class area.. hoodlums stand out like needles in a haystack. 

I kinda hate how NT and alot of us black folk just go off of generalizations like the shooter HAD to be right and being harassed in some way.. SON stop making excuses for criminals dude was WRONG period. 

He was carrying an illegal weapon that could have harmed innocent people not just the cop. If it was a drug deal gone wrong he would have let off same difference dudes like this dont need to be on the street.. He opened fire in a quite residential area where kids walk home from school everyday.. What troubles me the most is my kid could have been playing outside or walking with her older cousin who lives in the direction this happened. Anyone defending dude HOLD THIS L. 

 

[gwap]

 

 
He didn't even have reasonable suspicion ..... he didn't see a firearm... wasn't engaging the suspect for a reported crime... all he saw was a black male moving something at his waistline... if that is reasonable suspicion enough to "engage an individual in possession of a firearm" you are advocating aggressive policing.

the departments report on the crime is the only story that would make sense...that's what is so perplexing about the response in this thread.... 

When i tell you its easy to spot dudes around here looking for trouble it is.. Not saying cops should go around harassing everyone that looks suspicious im saying that in this area you can tell the people that are up to no good. This is a working class area.. hoodlums stand out like needles in a haystack. 

so profiling with no evidence other than "looking suspicious/like a hoodlum".....

wow..... yall are actually feeding directly into the corrupt police mindset and you don't even know it.

I'm 6'5" 240lbs, with a thick *** beard and run my own business so I dress down (sneakers and simple tees) when I'm not meeting clients...Your logic makes me nervous....

 

[donovandoesit]

so profiling with no evidence other than "looking suspicious/like a hoodlum".....

wow..... yall are actually feeding directly into the corrupt police mindset and you don't even know it.

I'm 6'5" 240lbs, with a thick *** beard and run my own business so I dress down (sneakers and simple tees) when I'm not meeting clients...Your logic makes me nervous....

I'm telling you from first hand experience about my area that I lived in all my life. These guys stand out in my area PERIOD and are known drug dealers and troublemakers.Once you get bagged by the 105th they keep tabs on you and know if your roaming around aimlessly your Up to no good. Like I said profiling is wrong but these dudes walk around my area looking for trouble like the kid you knew in highschool that cut class and smoked dope in the stairwell. Everyone knows what they are up to.

Pulling up on a urban looking guy in a white area saying he is probably there to steal IS WRONG

Pulling up in a dude your familiar with in the area and know is up to no good JUSTIFIED.

I'm just tired of people trying to call these dudes victims. Common son.. Let's be realistic stop generalizing and stick with the facts you walking down my block dressed down is completely different then a known neighborhood lowlife walking down my block strapped ready to let off shots on the same blocks my kid plays on. Cops job is to stop crime BEFORE it happens not say oh well we thought he looked suspicious but didn't act on it now innocent people are hurt. JUST IMAGINE how life would be if cops didn't go on their instincts and just let things happen and enforced laws after the fact.

Like I said previously I seen the area transform in 15 years or so from the HOOD to a nice middle/working class area because CRACK stop getting sold on Hollis ave. Because the KNOWN drug dealers are too scared to serve out in public and are locked up of they do. If your in my area and your selling drugs you have been to jail countless times.. If your selling crack your doing TIME and 105th will ensure that.. The system works in this case.

My grandparents lived on the same block for 40 years and seen the area go from predominately white to black middle class then crack hit turned it into the hood now it slowly turned back into middle class.Why ? because we had 2 good mayors and countless neighborhood leaders who made it their mission to help the NYPD clean up this city.

 

[HEATHEN]

He didn't even have reasonable suspicion ..... he didn't see a firearm... wasn't engaging the suspect for a reported crime... all he saw was a black male moving something at his waistline... if that is reasonable suspicion enough to "engage an individual in possession of a firearm" you are advocating aggressive policing.

the departments report on the crime is the only story that would make sense...that's what is so perplexing about the response in this thread.... 

Did you read the entire reply or do you like to simply nitpick?

I said, in the very reply you quoted, that the officers never had reasonable suspicion.

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

Anyone defending dude HOLD THIS L. 

 

[gwap]

 

so profiling with no evidence other than "looking suspicious/like a hoodlum".....

wow..... yall are actually feeding directly into the corrupt police mindset and you don't even know it.

I'm 6'5" 240lbs, with a thick *** beard and run my own business so I dress down (sneakers and simple tees) when I'm not meeting clients...Your logic makes me nervous....

I'm telling you from first hand experience about my area that I lived in all my life. These guys stand out in my area PERIOD and are known drug dealers and troublemakers.Once you get bagged by the 105th they keep tabs on you and know if your roaming around aimlessly your Up to no good. Like I said profiling is wrong but these dudes walk around my area looking for trouble like the kid you knew in highschool that cut class and smoked dope in the stairwell. Everyone knows what they are up to.

Pulling up on a urban looking guy in a white area saying he is probably there to steal IS WRONG

Pulling up in a dude your familiar with in the area and know is up to no good JUSTIFIED.

the cops didn't know who this guy was...... obviously 

but you are just advocating profiling without realizing it... if a cop recognizes somebody who was locked for attempted murder and assault on an officer they are not going to be sitting in the car while they investigate if he's holding drugs/firearm.... that scenario is irrelevent to the situation unless you have proof the dead officer knew exactly who the criminal was.

 

[gwap]

cops should have had their guns out and ordered him on the ground and restrained him

before searching his bag to make sure he didn't have a weapon in the bag right?

sneakerheathen's probable cause: he looked suspicious

 

[mr marcus]

Cop should've identified himself. Poor decision by him because he failed to realize the system and badge gave him flex. Him w/o that makes him a mark to someone who's bout that action

 

[gwap]

Cop should've identified himself. Poor decision by him because he failed to realize the system and badge gave him flex. Him w/o that makes him a mark to someone who's bout that action

dude knew he was an undercover... he did 8 years on attempted murder... long list of other priors... he lives in NY.. he knows the deal if a wh!teboy in an unmarked car asks him what he has on his person. Lets not play dumb here...

the sentencing if he woulda got caught with the banger and even the smallest amount of work would have been life with parole... only difference with killing the cop is life without parole...

 

[Top Boy]

Dude was a felon with gun who shot a cop.

Just let that sink in.

He wasn't afraid of jail, so back he goes. He gets no sympathy from me.

R.I.P. to the officer.

Instead of looking at it like that..

I see it as dude being a product of a system in which he's chewed up and spit back out with no plausible alternatives to do anything but return to his past life.

No point in being afraid of jail when the limited freedom you have is still Hell.

Probably a little beyond the scope of this thread, just looking at people in a different light lately.

 

[mr marcus]

Cop should've identified himself. Poor decision by him because he failed to realize the system and badge gave him flex. Him w/o that makes him a mark to someone who's bout that action

dude knew he was an undercover... he did 8 years on attempted murder... long list of other priors... he lives in NY.. he knows the deal if a wh!teboy in an unmarked car asks him what he has on his person. Lets not play dumb here...

the sentencing if he woulda got caught with the banger and even the smallest amount of work would have been life with parole... only difference with killing the cop is life without parole...

I get the "he knew who it was cause in NYC..." Yadayada but I still stand by that...poor officer is a victim of the corrupt system he worked for

If you think he got it on him why would you roll up onhim the way they did? Bad decision on their part cause obviously dude didn't mind letting them shots ring

Also NYC gun laws are trash but since he was a conflicted felon he would've been ****** no matter where he was at

 

[gwap]

 

 

Cop should've identified himself. Poor decision by him because he failed to realize the system and badge gave him flex. Him w/o that makes him a mark to someone who's bout that action

dude knew he was an undercover... he did 8 years on attempted murder... long list of other priors... he lives in NY.. he knows the deal if a wh!teboy in an unmarked car asks him what he has on his person. Lets not play dumb here...

the sentencing if he woulda got caught with the banger and even the smallest amount of work would have been life with parole... only difference with killing the cop is life without parole...

If you think he got it on him why would you roll up onhim the way they did? 

no probable cause..... the undercovers acted like police SHOULD act when they have no direct evidence... 

non-aggressive investigation

I don't want cops running up with guns drawn on every black male they see playing with their belt/wasteline

I'd rather see a few more dead cops than a few more amadou diallos/Tamir Rices 

 

[HEATHEN]

cops should have had their guns out and ordered him on the ground and restrained him
before searching his bag to make sure he didn't have a weapon in the bag right?

sneakerheathen's probable cause: he looked suspicious

Don't put words in my mouth son, I said they likely never had probable cause. In fact I said it from the jump.

Which speaks to the whole "plainclothes cops often harass and intimidate folks" trying to goad them into a situation that I have been speaking about oh.....this entire ******* thread....

Don't even address me if you're going to mince my words, I don't do that to you, do not do that to me.

 

[HEATHEN]

Bruh reread the ******* Yahoo article GWAP, it even states that the cops thought Blackwell had a gun because he had adjusted his waistband according to "authorities" IE the NYPD account.

And right from the outset that BS rationale for reasonable suspicion along with how the officers approached the subject (again according to the report) seemed off.

And again I've spoke to ad nauseum how a lot of these undercover officers use illegal methods to garner arrests.

So if you have been following along.

1. I don't think they ever had PC.
2. I don't completely buy the official account.

BUT if we are going to BUY the official account, the one that says the officers had reason to believe that the subject had a firearm then the way they approached the subject, in my opinion, was a complete malpractice of correct & safe police protocol.

Again if they believed dude had a gun like the report says, the way they handled the situation is puzzling. There is no reason to engage in any dialogue at that point other than ordering the subject to show his hands and get on the floor. You cant say "oh we thought he had a gun" and then tell me "so we decided to ask him" and expect me to believe that is (or should be) typical of proper police safety protocol.


Do you get where I'm coming from or do I have to ******* repeat myself for you for the nth time?

 

[gwap]

Bruh reread the ******* Yahoo article GWAP, it even states that the cops thought Blackwell had a gun because he had adjusted his waistband according to "authorities" IE the NYPD account.

And right from the outset that BS rationale for reasonable suspicion along with how the officers approached the subject (again according to the report) seemed off.

And again I've spoke to ad nauseum how a lot of these undercover officers use illegal methods to garner arrests.

So if you have been following along.

1. I don't think they ever had PC.
2. I don't completely buy the official account.

BUT if we are going to BUY the official account, the one that says the officers had reason to believe that the subject had a firearm then the way they approached the subject, in my opinion, was a complete malpractice of correct & safe police protocol.

Again if they believed dude had a gun like the report says, the way they handled the situation is puzzling. There is no reason to engage in any dialogue at that point other than ordering the subject to show his hands and get on the floor.


Do you get where I'm coming from or do I have to ******* repeat myself for you for the nth time?

lol....

They didn't see a weapon... did not get a call of a man with a weapon... did not witness him commit a crime...

They suspected he MAY HAVE HAD A WEAPON with no probable cause to move forward with any action besides talking to him.... 

The departments account makes perfect sense if a cop doesn't have any proof of a random man having a weapon other than "moving something at his waist"..

 There is no reason to engage in any dialogue at that point other than ordering the subject to show his hands and get on the floor.

see a black man adjusting his belt.... order him to the floor at gunpoint....

see a black man fishing for change in his back pocket....order him to the floor at gunpoint....

see a black man [insert random hand movement near waist]... order him to the floor at gunpoint....

You are advocating for the same protocol that kills/victimizes innocent civilians...

 

[HEATHEN]

lol....

They didn't see a weapon... did not get a call of a man with a weapon... did not witness him commit a crime...

They suspected he MAY HAVE HAD A WEAPON with no probable cause to move forward with any action besides talking to him.... 

The departments account makes perfect sense if a cop doesn't have any proof of a random man having a weapon other than "moving something at his waist"..

see a black man adjusting his belt.... order him to the floor at gunpoint....
see a black man fishing for change in his back pocket....order him to the floor at gunpoint....
see a black man [insert random hand movement near waist]... order him to the floor at gunpoint....

You are advocating for the same protocol that kills/victimizes innocent civilians...

The ABC link says that according to authorities the object he was adjusting appeared to be a gun.

So going by that report, they did see something (at least in their minds).

Not that I believe that.

Because in my mind a few different scenarios could have played out. I'm not going to sit here and try to draw out all those scenarios but if you've been following along I've stated that plainclothes officers often use unconventional or outright illegal tactics to garner an arrest.

Perhaps they did see absolutely nothing and they unfortunately harassed the wrong individual.

Who knows....maybe the official account is accurate, perplexing as some of the details are.

In the end I'm not advocating anything other than PROPER protocol. All the extra BS intimidation, bullying, profiling, harassment, illegal searches, instigating etc etc etc need to end.

If they believe they did in fact see what they believed was a firearm then their course of action (engaging in discussion) rather than securing the subject for their safety and the safety of the general public was outright irresponsible and sloppy policing.

I don't know what your angle is or much appreciate you skewing my argument to make it seem I'm advocating the profiling of black or any other minority group. Especially when I've been against such tactics since day 1 and have discussed these issues in length on this forum.

At this point I think you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. That or you're just trolling.

 

[mr marcus]

Officers recklessness is why one is dead.

 

[donovandoesit]

Instead of looking at it like that..

I see it as dude being a product of a system in which he's chewed up and spit back out with no plausible alternatives to do anything but return to his past life.

No point in being afraid of jail when the limited freedom you have is still Hell.

Probably a little beyond the scope of this thread, just looking at people in a different light lately.

Man this dude had the same opportunities as me my dad my brother and countless cousins etc. that grew up as a black man in the same area. None of us have a record. THIS AREA ain't the hood and is FAR from places where you can use the PRODUCT OF HIS ENVIROMENT or SYSTEM excuse. Even when it was bad you still seen people progressing past the BS. It is EXTREMELY easy to stay out of trouble over here. Funny I was walking my daughter home from Mother's Day festivities right on 104th ave and I was inclined to take a video and post it here on how QUITE and nice the area actually is 24/7. No one on the streets calm
and relaxed most you'll have is a cook out or 2 playing loud music. This dude tried to kill someone before.. Now he finally did it just ended up being a cop.

People always want to give these knuckle heads excuses to be degenerates and blame their surroundings that's why us as a people are so skewed now because it always came down to a damn excuse. It's like saying "hey yo it's ok to do this do that its all good it's your culture it's where you come from." Thanks EXACTLY how the powers that be want you to think. Just like they want Americans in constant fear of something since the 50's. We gotta figure out how to end all of this but instead we sit and make excuses for the people making the bad decisions and telling them "it's ok the police that keep you from ruining neighborhoods are the bad guys"

 

[mr marcus]

There's lost generations of black families that fell victim to the system of white supremacy. If the system wasn't there would there be no ****** up minded black people out here? Hell no they'd still exist like the low life white people in this country. The numbers would be dramatically lower though. Middle class whites are into criminal activities and drugs at a higher percentage than blacks in that same economic demographic

A shame so many blacks are caught in financial hardship because of lack of education and other factors that were created by white supremacy. Hard for a group of people to do well when the resources aren't placed in their community.

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Instead of looking at it like that..

I see it as dude being a product of a system in which he's chewed up and spit back out with no plausible alternatives to do anything but return to his past life.

No point in being afraid of jail when the limited freedom you have is still Hell.

Probably a little beyond the scope of this thread, just looking at people in a different light lately.

Man this dude had the same opportunities as me my dad my brother and countless cousins etc. that grew up as a black man in the same area. None of us have a record. THIS AREA ain't the hood and is FAR from places where you can use the PRODUCT OF HIS ENVIROMENT or SYSTEM excuse. Even when it was bad you still seen people progressing past the BS. It is EXTREMELY easy to stay out of trouble over here. Funny I was walking my daughter home from Mother's Day festivities right on 104th ave and I was inclined to take a video and post it here on how QUITE and nice the area actually is 24/7. No one on the streets calm
and relaxed most you'll have is a cook out or 2 playing loud music. This dude tried to kill someone before.. Now he finally did it just ended up being a cop.

People always want to give these knuckle heads excuses to be degenerates and blame their surroundings that's why us as a people are so skewed now because it always came down to a damn excuse. It's like saying "hey yo it's ok to do this do that its all good it's your culture it's where you come from." Thanks EXACTLY how the powers that be want you to think. Just like they want Americans in constant fear of something since the 50's. We gotta figure out how to end all of this but instead we sit and make excuses for the people making the bad decisions and telling them "it's ok the police that keep you from ruining neighborhoods are the bad guys"

If only things were that black and white.