mr marcus
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Quentin Tarantino's Django Unchained (a Spaghetti Western) scheduled for release Christmas 2012
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by Kimchi Papi,
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I respect Spike's opiniion. But I think people are shunning Spike because he does this alot.
From his NBA antics to tweeting the wrong address in the Trayvon tragedy. He's known for not being the most politcal correct and when you dealing with investor's money, directors white or black or whatever have to walk on eggshells. Nobody is going to lend money to a potential PR nightmare. Not saying Spike is but thats probably want he's viewed as.
I respect folks who dont want to see the movie because slavery is a serious subject. But I cant rock with folks meta-analyzing and nitpicking looking for things in the movie that arent there. It looks weak. Its that inferiority complex shining through.
From his NBA antics to tweeting the wrong address in the Trayvon tragedy. He's known for not being the most politcal correct and when you dealing with investor's money, directors white or black or whatever have to walk on eggshells. Nobody is going to lend money to a potential PR nightmare. Not saying Spike is but thats probably want he's viewed as.
I respect folks who dont want to see the movie because slavery is a serious subject. But I cant rock with folks meta-analyzing and nitpicking looking for things in the movie that arent there. It looks weak. Its that inferiority complex shining through.
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Explain...
Matter fact don't, idec. This movie was dope. QT is a genius. Spike is jelly. QT stans win. Spike stans lose. Blacks who are upset over this movie are short sighted.
Except for DTRT, every film QT has directed ***** on Spikes work. Atleast QT takes chances and branches out his work.
Yes I'm mad.
please exlpain this nonsense.
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Rook, you're making anyone who agrees with you look stupid right now.
And well said cartune.
I don't know about inferiority complex, but definitely unresolved or just unrealized racial insecurity, that bubbled to the surface when people realized a theater full of white people felt they would laugh during this movie.
And well said cartune.
I don't know about inferiority complex, but definitely unresolved or just unrealized racial insecurity, that bubbled to the surface when people realized a theater full of white people felt they would laugh during this movie.
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celticsfan9783
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So you're just gonna act like Summer of Sam and Miracle at St. Anna have nothing to do with Italians?
Bill Dal Cerro, president of the Italic Institute of America, sees a double standard with the sanctimonious pronouncements of Lee, many of whose projects have scapegoated Italian Americans, especially, as troglodyte racists, the worst of the whites Lee routinely castigates.
"Spike Lee is talented, but I sometimes wish he'd practice what he preaches," said Dal Cerro. "His points about African-Americans are well taken, but, ironically, he does the same thing to Italians in his films."
Bada Bing
African-American filmmaker Spike Lee seems to really have it in for Italians. The question is why? For starters, he grew up in Cobble Hill, Brooklyn in the 1960s and 70s, a predominantly Italian neighborhood where his was the only black family in town. Then in the 1980s, there was a string of racially motivated attacks in other New York Italian neighborhoods (though not all of the assailants were Italian) in which three black people were killed: Willie Turks, Michael Griffith and Yusef Hawkins.
Lee dealt directly with these incidents in his 1989 movie Do the Right Thing, but he took it a step farther by injecting Afrocentric pseudohistory and pseudoscience directed at Italian heritage and ancestry. Since then, he seems to have been trying to "get back" at Italians in many of his films, stereotyping them as dumb bigoted degenerates, and even showing hostility with his latest effort, Miracle at St. Anna, whose story is far removed from the racism of NYC Italian neighborhoods.
Italian-American groups are finally getting fed up and have begun calling him out on it. I don't agree with their protest against his public appearance. He has the right to deal with racism in his movies and portray whatever kinds of characters he wants, even to the point of distortion and obsession. What I take issue with is the argument he uses to defend himself and justify his actions:
During his speech, Lee read racist quotations from movies made by Italian-American directors such as The Godfather, Goodfellas, Casino and Saturday Night Fever — many which used the N-word. These films, Lee said, portrayed stereotypes or used racial slurs against African Americans. [...] Lee asked why it was acceptable for these Italian-American directors to have their characters portray race and racism in America while he is criticized for doing so.
That's a false analogy. Blacks barely figure in those movies at all, and the filmmakers don't stereotype them or have any anti-black, pro-Italian agenda. They merely include a few racist Italian characters, which means their criticism, like Lee's, is directed at Italians. They're acknowledging Italian racism, beating him to the punch by almost twenty years. The only difference is that those movies are actually good because the characterizations are much more subtle, whereas he hits you over the head with it.
Lee complains about "a double-standard being used against him", but he has that backwards. The simple fact is, Italian filmmakers would never be able to get away with doing to blacks what he does to Italians, and that's the only double standard here:
Italian American advocates are also justified in pointing out a double standard when it comes to the stereotyping of Italian Americans and other groups, particularly racial minorities, who have far greater purchase on the sympathies of good liberal people than do Italians. As The New York Times' Clyde Haberman observed, had a white director portrayed black residents of Harlem as drug- and sex-crazed louts and gangsters — which is exactly how Spike Lee depicted a working-class Italian American community in his egregious Summer of Sam — the outrage would have been immediate and unequivocal
George De Stefano. An Offer We Can't Refuse: The Mafia in the Mind of America. New York: Faber & Faber, Inc., 2007.
Must just be another one that doesn't know what he's talking about, eh?
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I can't agree with this, and if you don't get that, then fine, you don't get that. It's different and you know it.
Yes, Spike is very blunt and matter-of-fact with a lot of his approaches in filmmaking, but there is a double-standard being used against him. That's one of attrition and quantity. It's the cumulative effect of dozens of films, furthering that subtle racist agenda, versus his one film every so many years. He's loud and he's got Napoleon syndrome, but he's not particularly wrong. And you're telling me, you really think his indictment of those types of mumbling bigots is that callous?
You're saying he doesn't have the right to be bitter? And that he should take the high road and commiserate, because those are the wrong kind of white people, so his criticism of them shouldn't be that of the victims of their prejudice, but of the right kind of white people who'll slap them on the wrist? What is it they say about Will Smith? White people love him, because it feels like he's telling them all "it's alright"? Well, Spike says it's not as simple as that.
It's that he stands alone that makes him an easy target.
I mean, Driving Miss Daisy came out the same year as Do the Right Thing. If you think it'd be better for him to reign it in and be the docile negro, you go tell him that.
I got no problem with his message or themes, just his quality control and celebrity antics. He's too old to still let them catch him slipping and using that as exhibit A in race relations.
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jhawk826
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Those were time pieces. I forgot, excuse me. I don't what your agenda is but that article didn't prove it. In each of those movies the author tries to debate, there are admirable Italian characters and the "racism" shown by these characters is a reflection of the period they were in especially the NYC based flicks (DTRT, SoS and Jungle Fever) where racial tension was at its highest.So you're just gonna act like Summer of Sam and Miracle at St. Anna have nothing to do with Italians?
Like I alluded to earlier, you're a clown. I'm not a Spike Lee stan. In fact, since the 25th Hour, he hasn't done a project worth raving about. Bad 25 and Red Hook Summer, the most recent examples, were dreadful. One of those blacks? Ok. As if you know anything about that. When is the last movie that Tarantino took a chance on? All of his movies follow the same exact formula. You've seen one QT flick, you've seen them all. The only change is the actors and setting.
Sam Jackson? Really? The same man who will take a check for ANY movie you offer him? The same man who was going to be remembered by most people for "Get these ************* snakes off of the ************* plane?" Jackson is an actor with no integrity. That's the worst example you could have used.
Spike Lee is not jealous. He's upset at how the film was approached. Its a film that doesn't use much history and has comedic elements just to name a few things wrong. You can give this to any white director and if they would have made Django in a serious manner with no slapstick garbage and rap music, there'd be no complaints. It can be done with Denmark Vesey or Nat Turner, but that will never happen. This is the closest we'll ever get to that. Tarantino is a very tacky director imo and his style was going to rub people wrong regardless if Spike spoke out or not. Like Tariq Nasheed said, we're not going to get a movie about slave rebellion in the fashion of a Munich and there's support for that seeing how afraid theaters were to play Do the Right Thing and Malcolm X, but you're too young for that and you're not from a large city where people were legit afraid of the reaction.
The thing that I can't wrap my head around in this entire discourse is when did it become okay to tear apart Lee's legacy? DTRT, Malcolm X, Bamboozled, He Got Game, School Daze, She's Gotta Have It, Crooklyn, Mo Better Blues and Jungle Fever are tear apart worthy because of his opinion? Black Hollywood is small enough and doesn't have a voice outside of Lee and Tyler Perry to name a few. Whether you like him or not, Lee will actually use his platform to stand up for something. The only positive is that people are talking which is what Tarantino wanted us to do all along when he came up with the concept of this movie.
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Spike Lee is a clown. Dude needs to stop getting so offended by everything and acting like he's some sort of universal representative for the black race. It's disgusting.
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Dog in the end, this movie ain't even about slavery. It's a revenge, kill bill type film. It's fictional. Not based on any real life person nor slave nor event.
Props to QT
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*****! with that ********,Excuse my Italian(french)!.Nit picking.Spike has been using the same Italian/Jewish actor's for year's,so much so that if he was to go with anyone else people might think it's not a Spike Lee Joint.
Your mad about the way Sal's character was portrayed from Sal's pizzeria in DTRT?.I was too young to remember but I found out year's later how it caused a few wave's but not much to the point where anyone gave a rat's ***.You know why? because it was a real portrait of what thing's were really like in Brooklyn,NY during the 1980's when people like John Gotti was causing such a problem,when several situations occured where Italian American's were attacking black's and brown people just off of the bases of 'being in the wrong neighborhood',which even resulted in a couple of death's if I'm not mistaken.There were damnear riot's the racial tention was so thick between the group's that have co-existed,even before there was an Ellis Island and the effluction of Italian's but that's another matter at hand.
That's just not true.
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That's the thing. I don't think he thinks that. It's just ever since Do the Right Thing, every time anything that has to do with blacks in film or racism in film comes up, people turn to Spike, get a soundbite, then shut down the conversation.
He needs to learn to just say 'no comment' or something more meaningful than 'yall better not go see that **** ****,' cuz to media at large, he still does represent all of us.
That's the thing. I don't think he thinks that. It's just ever since Do the Right Thing, every time anything that has to do with blacks in film or racism in film comes up, people turn to Spike, get a soundbite, then shut down the conversation.
He needs to learn to just say 'no comment' or something more meaningful than 'yall better not go see that **** ****,' cuz to media at large, he still does represent all of us.
but the thing is, i say let him say whatever, because at least he has the balls to say stuff. Lets not act like many people in Hollywood dont feel the same way, but are afraid of getting black listed. So even if you dont agree with him, at least he is giving some contingent a voice. Look at rev al or jesse jackson. Sure they are in it for themselves and are off base at times, but alot of other times they do bring awareness to issue that would be glossed over
I think people in this thread dont get that this was his opinion, so essentially its pointless to say hes wrong or anything.
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Absolutely not true. Kill Bill and Pulp Fiction have absolutely no similarities. That is just ignorant talk.
celticsfan9783
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It's more about him never deviating from the stereotypical Italian-American male in his work. Frank Vincent, Al Palagonia, Nicky Turturro, Michael Rispoli. I can't think of a role aside from a loud, overbearing, racist, violent goomba he's given the majority of these guys in all his movies. It makes me believe he thinks every Italian-American male (especially from NY) is a damn neanderthal and normal, middle class, reserved individuals with Italian roots don't even exist
It's too bad because he used to be a talented filmmaker. DTRT was brilliant.
antonlavey
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It's more about him never deviating from the stereotypical Italian-American male in his work. Frank Vincent, Al Palagonia, Nicky Turturro, Michael Rispoli. I can't think of a role aside from a loud, overbearing, racist, violent goomba he's given the majority of these guys in all his movies. It makes me believe he thinks every Italian-American male (especially from NY) is a damn neanderthal and normal, middle class, reserved individuals with Italian roots don't even exist
It's too bad because he used to be a talented filmmaker. DTRT was brilliant.
Reminds of the family guy sketch where they did a parody of Italian Americans in Spike Lee movies. Both Tarantino and Spike Lees films have racial undertones, I give Tarantino the nod cause he's brilliants and a lot more entertaining than anything Spike Lee has ever done.
shoelyesses
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you do know that the depictions of the characters were based about a particular section in a particular city in a particular setting at a particular time? I could see if he was making a movie about ALL white ppl, but he wasnt, and he depict ALL white ppl in one way, but he didnt. What your saying would be no different then a black person complaining about blacks being viewed as a hood gangster in a movie about hood gangsters.It's more about him never deviating from the stereotypical Italian-American male in his work. Frank Vincent, Al Palagonia, Nicky Turturro, Michael Rispoli. I can't think of a role aside from a loud, overbearing, racist, violent goomba he's given the majority of these guys in all his movies. It makes me believe he thinks every Italian-American male (especially from NY) is a damn neanderthal and normal, middle class, reserved individuals with Italian roots don't even exist
It's too bad because he used to be a talented filmmaker. DTRT was brilliant.
I mean I could see if he used the steretypical white theme etc... for every type of genre of movie. I could agree with the fact if you said he only makes movies in which there is no deviation from the stereotypical whites.
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Serious question in regards to Spike though, if he has such a problem with the lack of historical representation of this time period and darkness in American history why doesn't HE do a film about Nat Turner's rebellion or another historical serious piece in the same line as Munich?
It's fine that he has an opinion on it, but Spike actually had the power to create something like that years ago and didn't do it.
It's fine that he has an opinion on it, but Spike actually had the power to create something like that years ago and didn't do it.
you do know that it wouldnt get funded. Thats part of the problem
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Does his work **** on this too ?
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man yall over hyped this movie so much..it wasnt even better than bastards and nowhere close to pulp fiction
MarvelSux
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PAC 
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just finished watching this and i can't front , this movie was overhyped.
the violence was ridiculous and overdone. by no means am i one of these people who can't see blood but at one point me and my wife looked at each other and laughed, just seemed stupid.
movie was entertaining but nothing mind blowing how some are making it seem ..... just my humble ......
the violence was ridiculous and overdone. by no means am i one of these people who can't see blood but at one point me and my wife looked at each other and laughed, just seemed stupid.
movie was entertaining but nothing mind blowing how some are making it seem ..... just my humble ......
Humbled
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Movie was