Question For Christians

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

All such prophets preached the same message (Submitting to one God).

Obviously the message changing (innovations being introduced to a message) as it is passed down over hundreds of years is a possibility. However, the Qur'an was memorized immediately while the Prophet was reciting it, and until this day, there are tens of thousands of Muslims across the globe who have memorized the Qur'an cover to cover letter by letter.

This isn't a children's game of "telephone" we are talking about.

Did they all preach the same message as all the prophets in the old testament? Because there's a lot of disgusting, immoral sh&* being preached in the old testament

In addition to the message being diluted, God spoke to a lot of people back in the day how did they select whose "vision" went into scripture
[h6]"trust in god, not man" Isaiah 26:4

The definition of irony

[/h6]

 

[tkthafm]

Of course there may have been people who claimed to have visions (we already know the simple message confirmed by all legitimate prophets: submitting to one God) but again, the Qur'an makes clear the original authentic message, free from the manipulation/editing found in the Old Testament.

I don't see how one biblical quote (which I do not recognize as having any real value) is supposed to demonstrate any sort of irony in a discussion about Islam. The point of the exact message being preserved letter by letter from the moment it left the Prophets lips until this day still stands. This is not found in juedochrisitian tradition and is unique to Islam. I notice a lot who try to attack Islam do so through pointing out errors in Christianity...

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

Of course there may have been people who claimed to have visions (we already know the simple message confirmed by all legitimate prophets: submitting to one God) but again, the Qur'an makes clear the original authentic message, free from the manipulation/editing found in the Old Testament.

I don't see how one biblical quote (which I do not recognize as having any real value) is supposed to demonstrate any sort of irony in a discussion about Islam.

That quote isn't unique to the koran but religion in general, it is ironic we are taking the word of man.


If I told you I spoke to God and wrote down what he said do you take my word for it?


These are HONEST questions, bdw props to you for not taking it to heart like that idiot earlier in this page. From what I understand, the bible has been edited beyond recognition and many books have been added and taken out, the same has happened to the koran


So Christianity has errors because you're NOT  a Christian? A Christian would think the same about your religion, whether you like to admit it or not the Judeochristian religions are intertwined

 

[wr]

Or the only debate from the standpoint of what modern day christianity is which we all should know by now is nothing like what it came from. Remember when Jesus died on the cross, the Roman soldiers gambled for his garments. Just think about who is wearing the "king's clothes" so to speak....Who is cloaking their true intentions under the guise and out ritual appearance of christianity? Those people raping little boys at church are doing the same thing they were doing when they were claiming "greek" and "roman" culture. Still raping little boys. They act the same to themselves, and project an outwardly appearance of being spiritual and holy via their garb, architecture, speech etc....

 

[antonlavey]

I find Mormonism very fascinating because its a relatively novel religion, why does God talk to people today less often and why aren't new scriptures added to the bible, Torah and Koran? What is the lithmus test to see if a prophet is legit or not?

 

[tkthafm]

Of course no sane human would immediately accept the word of some man claiming it is from God. For Muslims, the "proof" is in the message itself (the Qur'an). We believe no human could have possibly put it together just from a study of the literature... the diction, the palindromes, the sheer linguistic genius. 

As for your point on the Qur'an being edited... this is 100% false (if you have proof, feel free...) 

Again, unlike any other holy book.. the Qur'an was from the very beginning meant to be recited aloud, memorized, and passed down identically from the moment it was first revealed. You have to remember the Qur'an was revealed in segments over the course of 23 years...each segment was carefully studied and committed to memory by thousands. Scholars (going back hundreds of years) have known the exact # of times each name, even the exact number of times each LETTER was used in the Qur'an. 

Don't link it to the Bible (first of all... WHICH BIBLE ?

 ) for example, which was heavily edited as you said, and also exists in numerous different forms (depending on what 'books' you count are part of the bible). The level of study and emphasis on memorization (even the belief that the words are directly from God) simply does not exist in Christianity. This isn't me attacking Christianity "because I'm not Christian" ... it's 100% historic irrefutable fact. 

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

I find Mormonism very fascinating because its a relatively novel religion, why does God talk to people today less often and why aren't new scriptures added to the bible, Torah and Koran? What is the lithmus test to see if a prophet is legit or not?

Well, in Islam, Muhammad is known as the "seal of the Prophets" (the last one) 
This is a fundamental teaching (that there will be no more Prophets after him).

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by tkthafm


Of course no sane human would immediately accept the word of some man claiming it is from God. For Muslims, the "proof" is in the message itself (the Qur'an). We believe no human could have possibly put it together just from a study of the literature... the diction, the palindromes, the sheer linguistic genius. 

As for your point on the Qur'an being edited... this is 100% false (if you have proof, feel free...) 

Again, unlike any other holy book.. the Qur'an was from the very beginning meant to be recited aloud, memorized, and passed down identically from the moment it was first revealed. You have to remember the Qur'an was revealed in segments over the course of 23 years...each segment was carefully studied and committed to memory by thousands. Scholars (going back hundreds of years) have known the exact # of times each name, even the exact number of times each LETTER was used in the Qur'an. 

Don't link it to the Bible (first of all... WHICH BIBLE ?

 ) for example, which was heavily edited as you said, and also exists in numerous different forms (depending on what 'books' you count are part of the bible). The level of study and emphasis on memorization (even the belief that the words are directly from God) simply does not exist in Christianity. This isn't me attacking Christianity "because I'm not Christian" ... it's 100% historic irrefutable fact. 

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

I find Mormonism very fascinating because its a relatively novel religion, why does God talk to people today less often and why aren't new scriptures added to the bible, Torah and Koran? What is the lithmus test to see if a prophet is legit or not?

Well, in Islam, Muhammad is known as the "seal of the Prophets" (the last one) 
This is a fundamental teaching (that there will be no more Prophets after him).

Hmm, so everyone else that has spoken to the Judeochristian God is wrong?



And no that isn't proof, you just believe it-I can write the most poetic account of an encounter I've had with extraterrestrials but it doesn't prove anythng-You just believe and have faith, leave it at that


The Quran is not the only holy book that has been read and passed down from person to person, and the fact that it was passed down by word does NOT convince me of its accuracy it actually does the opposite

 

[wr]

What you see a lot of in islam is prayer/ meditation. What you you see a lot of in christianity is going thru other men to get to "God". I'm not claiming to be a muslim. I'm just saying that there are certain rituals and practices that bring you closer to "God". Islam is a religion that emphasizes a strict ritual of prayer and communion. In church, communion is about being with other people and practicing eating the flesh and blood of a beaten and sacrificed dead man's body.

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

Of course there may have been people who claimed to have visions (we already know the simple message confirmed by all legitimate prophets: submitting to one God) but again, the Qur'an makes clear the original authentic message, free from the manipulation/editing found in the Old Testament.

I don't see how one biblical quote (which I do not recognize as having any real value) is supposed to demonstrate any sort of irony in a discussion about Islam. The point of the exact message being preserved letter by letter from the moment it left the Prophets lips until this day still stands. This is not found in juedochrisitian tradition and is unique to Islam. I notice a lot who try to attack Islam do so through pointing out errors in Christianity...

If a man came out and said that he was Jesus returning, how could you discredit him or validate him then?
How do you know the Quran is the original message when everyone knows there are more than one version of the book AND there is clear evidence that most of it wasn't even written at the same time. Also much of it was written by more than one person. 

Muhammed got his "messages" from "god" while he was "alone" in a "cave"

And yet this "message from god" is authentic? 

How can you reasonably take this to be authentic? 

And also, pointing out errors in christianity is common because a majority of this board and most posters are from predominately christian countries. It doesn't mean islam is more valid though. 

If god is so omniscient, how come he didn't send the correct message down the FIRST TWO TIMES with judaism and christianity? 

Additionally, if the book and the related hadiths (also apparently from the "prophet") is the word of allah, then how come you don't follow it to a T.

Should infidels be killed?

Should women who have pre-martial sex be stoned to death?

Should apostates be murdered?

Why can't we draw pictures of muhammad?

If you think any of this is wrong then CONGRATULATIONS! You have the capability to THINK FOR YOURSELF and you don't need a book to tell you what is inherently right from wrong. 

Originally Posted by tkthafm

All such prophets preached the same message (Submitting to one God).

Obviously the message changing (innovations being introduced to a message) as it is passed down over hundreds of years is a possibility. However, the Qur'an was memorized immediately while the Prophet was reciting it, and until this day, there are tens of thousands of Muslims across the globe who have memorized the Qur'an cover to cover letter by letter. 

This isn't a children's game of "telephone" we are talking about. As for the woman point, sure, the Prophet chosen was male, but there have been many women who have contributed significantly to our understanding. just as one example, the most eminent Islamic scholars of the time would often seek out Aisha (wife of the Prophet) to help them understand things/solve issues they couldn't figure out.

Wrong. 

Your god comes from the christian tradition (its funny how islam steals a bunch of stuff from christianity and comes along 600 years afterwards) which says Yahweh is one of MANY gods but people should just follow yahweh because its the warrior god and therefore the "better" one. Judaism started out as a polytheistic religion until they adopted yahweh as the predominate "god" 

Its funny how silly your premises are...

The prophet IMMEDIATELY memorized all of what "god" had to say...you believe that? With NO errors in translation? 

And FYI, the reason much of them have memorized it word for word is because some schools BEAT children if they even mispronounce a word. The other day a kid was kicked out of school in Pakistan for doing just such a thing. 

And yes, this is a childrens game of telephone. 

If I read to you a passage about infidels being murdered and you want to scream out "hey you have to read it in context" then VOILA! We have an incident that is NOT relevant to modern times and thus should not be interpreted as such. 

Originally Posted by Wr

Or the only debate from the standpoint of what modern day christianity is which we all should know by now is nothing like what it came from. Remember when Jesus died on the cross, the Roman soldiers gambled for his garments. Just think about who is wearing the "king's clothes" so to speak....Who is cloaking their true intentions under the guise and out ritual appearance of christianity? Those people raping little boys at church are doing the same thing they were doing when they were claiming "greek" and "roman" culture. Still raping little boys. They act the same to themselves, and project an outwardly appearance of being spiritual and holy via their garb, architecture, speech etc....

I guess you haven't been watching the GOP presidential race then...

 

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by tkthafm

And yes, this is a childrens game of telephone. 

THIS


I'm not gonna lie, my dude Muhammad tied all loose ends with the whole "I'm the final prophet" nonsense, but if someone were to tell tkthafm that he spoke with Muhammad's ghost and Muhammad said "there will be another prophet", would he be any less valid than any other prophet in religious history?

 

[tkthafm]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by tkthafm


As for your point on the Qur'an being edited... this is 100% false (if you have proof, feel free...) 

Hmm, so everyone else that has spoken to the Judeochristian God is wrong?



And no that isn't proof, you just believe it-I can write the most poetic account of an encounter I've had with extraterrestrials but it doesn't prove anythng-You just believe and have faith, leave it at that


The Quran is not the only holy book that has been read and passed down from person to person, and the fact that it was passed down by word does NOT convince me of its accuracy it actually does the opposite

As a man of science, do you have proof or not ? 
Of course the Qur'an doesn't remove the element of faith... 

As for sillyputty... so much wrong in that post (again same claim of "sent two times" which I already adressed

), but I'd rather just ask you too for proof of  your statements. Yes, it was IMMEDIATELY memorized (go study Islamic history).

PS: The kid who got kicked out of the school in Pakistan was Christian I believe 

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by tkthafm


As for your point on the Qur'an being edited... this is 100% false (if you have proof, feel free...) 

Hmm, so everyone else that has spoken to the Judeochristian God is wrong?



And no that isn't proof, you just believe it-I can write the most poetic account of an encounter I've had with extraterrestrials but it doesn't prove anythng-You just believe and have faith, leave it at that


The Quran is not the only holy book that has been read and passed down from person to person, and the fact that it was passed down by word does NOT convince me of its accuracy it actually does the opposite

As a man of science, do you have proof or not ? 
Of course the Qur'an doesn't remove the element of faith... 

As for sillyputty... so much wrong in that post, but I'd rather just ask you too for proof of  your statements. 

Do you have proof that my God, Lucifer isn't having anal sex with Muhammad for all eternity?


The absence of proof is not the proof of absence argument only applies to religion, would you sentence a man to death row by mere hearsay?


I don't have proof of whether Muhammad spoke to God, I also don't have any proof of the following
-Zeus
-Big foot
-The lochness monster
-Nicki Minaj's dignity
-Xenu
-Ogbanje

 

[tkthafm]

This goes to the heart of the issue though. If my "proof" (proof in quotes because the element of faith is still involved) is that no human could have possible made the Qur'an (which is perfect, free from all error, contains many scientific facts not known at the time etc) and you claim the book was written by many.. changed/edited... etc (without any proof)....

the discussion goes nowhere (like most religion threads on NT discussions anywhere).

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

This goes to the heart of the issue though. If my proof is that no human could have possible made the Qur'an (which is perfect, free from all error, contains many scientific facts not known at the time etc) and you claim the book was written by many.. changed/edited... etc (without any proof)....

the discussion goes nowhere (like most religion threads on NT).

The Quran is perfect by what objective measure? What makes the Quran better than the bible or the Torah? Chinese and Asian spirituality/mythology is very "poetic", what makes your Torah any different?



You answer is, "it just is"

Thanks for being a good sport tho, but yes you don't have answers

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by tkthafm


Of course no sane human would immediately accept the word of some man claiming it is from God. For Muslims, the "proof" is in the message itself (the Qur'an). We believe no human could have possibly put it together just from a study of the literature... the diction, the palindromes, the sheer linguistic genius. 

As for your point on the Qur'an being edited... this is 100% false (if you have proof, feel free...) 

Again, unlike any other holy book.. the Qur'an was from the very beginning meant to be recited aloud, memorized, and passed down identically from the moment it was first revealed. You have to remember the Qur'an was revealed in segments over the course of 23 years...each segment was carefully studied and committed to memory by thousands. Scholars (going back hundreds of years) have known the exact # of times each name, even the exact number of times each LETTER was used in the Qur'an. 

Don't link it to the Bible (first of all... WHICH BIBLE ?

 ) for example, which was heavily edited as you said, and also exists in numerous different forms (depending on what 'books' you count are part of the bible). The level of study and emphasis on memorization (even the belief that the words are directly from God) simply does not exist in Christianity. This isn't me attacking Christianity "because I'm not Christian" ... it's 100% historic irrefutable fact. 

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

I find Mormonism very fascinating because its a relatively novel religion, why does God talk to people today less often and why aren't new scriptures added to the bible, Torah and Koran? What is the lithmus test to see if a prophet is legit or not?

Well, in Islam, Muhammad is known as the "seal of the Prophets" (the last one) 



This is a fundamental teaching (that there will be no more Prophets after him).

So how are Mormons or other cult leaders for example wrong?
The proof is in a book that says the book is proof of its message. 

 GENIUS!!!





Let me get this straight...you're using language...to evaluate language?!?!




What the hell? 




Man, Google is AMAZING. I bet you haven't even TRIED to see if this was true. 

The Koran was revealed in segments over TWENTY THREE YEARS?! Thats almost as old as I am! 

Could you imagine how much stuff you can make up in 23 years my dude? If it takes 23 years to write a book then you should call it quits. 




And how does counting how many letters there are of each book even matter? THEY TOOK TWENTY YEARS TO WRITE IT! JUST TO MAKE IT DIFFERENT! 




If you gave me even ten years to write a book, I could blow you away!




And the Koran ISNT edited? 

I just can't get over how easily you cling to that lie. 




Of course Muhammad has it wrapped up 

I'm the last one. FOR REAL THIS TIME 

 

[tkthafm]

I already explained what makes it different from any other religious book, even in that very post you quoted.

Linguistically, scientific fact, historical fact, free from a single error/contradiction.... Muhammad himself was an illiterate man.
Sillyputty... I was hoping to avoid  the whole multicolored back/forth thing for my eyes sake, but the content of that post was pretty lacking. I was expecting a stronger reply with some evidence, sources for your claims etc but if that's all you got... guess this wont be a long/drawn out thread after all.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

I already explained what makes it different from any other religious book, even in that very post you quoted.

Linguistically, scientific fact, historical fact, free from a single error/contradiction.... Muhammad himself was an illiterate man.
Sillyputty... I was hoping to avoid  the whole multicolored back/forth thing for my eyes sake, but the content of that post was pretty lacking. I was expecting a stronger reply with some evidence, sources for your claims etc but if that's all you got... guess this wont be a long/drawn out thread after all.

???? I just read you post again, the synopsis of you posts are "BECAUSE IT IS", there's no proof

scientific fact?

Again I ask, what objective measure did you use to prove that the Islam is more valid than any other religion, or have you been muslim for so long that this has become your reality and you don't need evidence? That's what it sounds like to me, if you've been told something for so long you start to believe it's the truth

 

[tkthafm]

I just gave you examples, and you respond with "BECAUSE IT IS"...

You mentioned scientific fact (only one area where the Qur'an demonstrates its perfection), a simple google search would lead you to many examples of scientific information found in the Qur'an that was simple not known at the time.

Let me help you out, first result: http://www.quranandscience.com/quran-a-science.html (If you want to dispute particular things feel free.... point is, I have given some evidence to my claim while you have given none)

Compare this to any other religious book (ex: bible, filled with scientific contradiction)
Problem is on here the athiests approach with a closed mind, don't even read my posts (or show poor reading comprehension) and fire off their list of already made attacks on the religion (while demonstrating they know nothing about Islam, the Qur'an, or Islamic history). The athiests seem to only put on a strong argument against Christians because at least they have a small amount of knowledge in that matter.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

I just gave you examples, and you respond with "BECAUSE IT IS"...

You mentioned scientific fact (only one area where the Qur'an demonstrates its perfection), a simple google search would lead you to many examples of scientific information found in the Qur'an that was simple not known at the time.

Let me help you out, first result: http://www.quranandscience.com/quran-a-science.html (If you want to dispute particular things feel free.... point is, I have given some evidence to my claim while you have given none)

Compare this to any other religious book (ex: bible, filled with scientific contradiction)

Many Christians, Atheists, Jews, Hindus made scientific advancements? What is your point?


I could make a similar website about Asians and African spirituality, is this how you prove that your God exists?


I'm humoring what you just posted, this website is suspect as hell I dont even know where to begin, but if your followers knowing science is what validates your religion you have lost me-I love how they have evidence of everything but the existence of God and proof that Mohammad actually spoke with him

 

[tkthafm]

Again, show me any comparable book that CONTAINS this information without contradiction (not that the FOLLOWERS know science

)

This is ridiculous, someone shoot me a PM when you get your argument straight. I'm done.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

Again, show me any comparable book that CONTAINS this information without contradiction (not that the FOLLOWERS know science

)

This is ridiculous, someone shoot me a PM when you get your argument straight. I'm done.

LOL seriously?


Hows this for a contradiction, the fact that the Koran has passages claiming to be peaceful and some passages telling people to commit murder
How about the overtly misogynistic passages in the Koran

1. Virgins await those who enter paradise. 2:25
2. It's OK to have sex with your wives during Ramadan (at least after sunset). In fact you must "hold intercourse with them." All of them. It is your sacred Muslim duty. 2:187
3. Next Allah gets down to the really important things in life. Things we all wonder about from time to time. Like should I marry a few idolatresses? Is an Islamic concubine better than a really hot Christian woman? Should I refuse to give my daughter to a Jewish man until he becomes a Muslim? And who should I invite to the Fire anyway? 2:221
4. Menstruation is a filthy disease. All good Muslim men should stay the hell away from menstruating women And for God sakes, don't have sex with them while they're menstruating. It creeps Allah out just to think of it. 2:222a
5. But don't worry guys. After they clean up you can have sex with them whenever you want. Allah loves clean men as much as he hates menstruating women. 2:222b
6. In the mind of Allah, women are like a dirty field for men to plow with their penises. Plow them whenever you like (as long as they're not menstruating, of course.) 2:223
7. Still, if a man doesn't want to have sex with his wives, Allah is OK with that, too. Wait four months, then if they change their minds, go ahead and have sex with them. 2:226
8. Women may not have sex for three months after getting a divorce. If they skip one of their filthy periods, they must not hide it. In such a case, Allah suggests that their ex-husbands take their pregnant wives back. 2:228a
9. Women have rights that are similar to men, but men are "a degree above them." 2:228b
10. If you divorce your wife, you must divorce her twice. And she can ransom herself, whatever that might mean. 2:229
11. But if you divorce your wife for the third time, you can't have her again until she marries another guy. Then if the other guy divorces her, it's OK for you to have sex with your four-times divorced wife. What the hell. These are the limits of Allah. 2:230
12. After your divorced wives have reached the end of their 3 month waiting period, you can take them or leave them. Just don't make Allah a laughing-stock. 2:231
13. If you decide to go ahead with the divorce, let your ex-wives get married again. It's cleaner that way. Allah knows; you don't. 2:232
14. When a man dies, his wives can't have sex for four months and ten days. After that, if they're not pregnant, it's no sin for the dead man if his wives have sex again. 2:234
15. A woman is worth one-half a man. 2:282
16. It's OK to have two, three, or four wives, slave or free. 4:3
17. Males are to inherit twice that of females. 4:11
18. Lewd women are to be confined to their houses until death. 4:15
19. If any of your women get lewd, cut off their inheritance. 4:19
20. Instructions for exchanging wives 4:20
21. Don't marry women that are already married -- unless they're slaves that you obtained in war. Then it's OK. 4:24
22. If you can't afford to marry free Muslims women, go ahead and marry slaves, as long as they're Muslims. 4:25a
23. f your slave wives are guilty of lewdness, punish them half as much as you punish your lewd free wives. 4:25c
24. Men are in charge of women, because Allah made men to be better than women. Women must obey men, and if they refuse they must be punished. Refuse to have sex with them and beat them into submission (Islam). 4:34
25. Don't pray if you are drunk, dirty, or have touched a woman lately. 4:43
26. Vigins await those who enter paradise. 4:57
27. Women are feeble and are unable to devise a plan. 4:98
28. They invoke in his (Allah's) stead only females. 4:117
29. Don't bother trying to treat your wives fairly. It's impossible. 4:129
30. "Unto the male is the equivalent share of two females." 4:176
31. When it's time to pray and you have just used the toilet or touched a woman, be sure to wash up. If you can't find any water, just rub some dirt on yourself. 5:6
32. Men and women are enemies! (Or is it humans and Iblis? Sometimes Allah isn't all that clear about these things.)7:24
33. If your ... your wives ... are dearer to you than Allah and His messenger ... then wait till Allah bringeth His command to pass." 9:24
34. Lot offers his daughters to a mob of angel rapers. 11:78
35. "The guile of you women ... is very great." 12:28
36. Lot offers his daughters to a mob of angel rapers. 15:71
37. "Every nursing mother will forget her nursling and every pregnant one will be delivered of her burden and thou (Muhammad) wilt see mankind as drunken, yet they will not be drunken, but the Doom of Allah will be strong (upon them)."
    When the doom of Allah comes, pregnant women will suffer miscarriages, and men will act like they are drunk. 22:2
38. You don't have to be modest around your wives or your slave girls "that your right hand possess." 23:6
39. If you accuse an honorable women of adultery, be sure to bring four witness. Otherwise you will receive 80 lashes. 24:4
40. A husband can accuse his wife of adultery with only one witness (himself). But he has to swear five times (so he can count as four or more separate witnesses in accordance with 24.4). 24:6
41. Believing women must lower their gaze and be modest, cover themselves with veils, and not reveal themselves except to their husbands, relatives, children, and slaves. 24:31
42. If Muhammad's wives are good, Allah will give them "an immense reward." 33:28-29
43. The wives of Muhammad will be punished double for lewdness. (And that is easy for Allah.) 33:30
44. The wives of Muhammad are not like other women. They must not leave their houses. 33:32-33
45. When Allah or Muhammad decide that a man and a woman should marry, they must marry. 33:36
46. Allah gave Zeyd to Muhammad in marriage. This was so that all Muslims would know that it's OK to marry your adopted son's ex-wife. 33:37
47. Allah says it is lawful for Muhammad to marry any women he wants. 33:50-51
48. If men must speak to Muhammad's wives they must speak from behind a curtain. And no one must ever marry one of his wives. 33:53
49. But it's OK for Muhammad's wives to talk with certain people. 33:55
50. Women must cover themselves when in public. 33:59
51. Those who "did wrong" will go to hell, and their wives will go to hell with them (no matter how they behaved). 37:22-23
52. But the single-minded slaves of Allah will enjoy a Garden filled with lovely-eyed virgins. 37:40-48
53. Female companions await those who enter the Gardens of Eden on the Day of Reckoning. 38:52
54. Allah will reward faithful Muslims after they die with "fair ones with wide, lovely eyes." 44:54
55. Allah will reward those in the Garden with beautiful wives with wide, lovely eyes. 52:20
56. Those who disbelieve in the afterlife give female names to angels. 53:27
57. Allah will give those in the Garden women of modest gaze whom neither man nor jinn have touched before them. 55:56
58. Allah will reward believing men with "fair ones" (beautiful women) in heaven. 55:71-72
59. Those in the Garden will be attended by immortal youths with wide, lovely eyes. 56:17-23
60. Allah made virgins to be lovers and friends to those on his right hand. 56:36-37
61. Your wives and children are your enemies. They are to you only a temptation. 64:14-15
62. Instructions for divorcing your wives. 65:1-6
63. Allah's rules for divorcing wives that have not yet reached puberty. 65:4
64. O Prophet! Why bannest thou that which Allah hath made lawful for thee, seeking to please thy wives?"
    Allah says it's OK for Muhammad to have sex with any of his wives whenever he wants. 66:1
65. Muhammad's wives need to be careful. If they criticize their husband, Allah will replace them with better ones. 66:5
66. The wives of Noah and Lot (who were both righteous) betrayed their husbands and are now in the Fire. 66:10
67. Doom is about to fall on all disbelievers. Only worshippers (Muslims) and those who preserve their chastity (except with their wives and slave girls) will be spared from "the fires of hell" that are "eagar to roast."70:1-30
68. You don't have to be chaste around your wives or your slave girls. 70:29-30
69. Abu Lahab will die and be plunged in flaming Fire. His wife will have on her neck a halter of palm fiber. 111:1-5

Yea this is your religion, personally I would be ashamed to have this in a book that I swear by but that's just my opinion

 

[antonlavey]

Where did he go? So now that we've established that the Koran has no contradictions do you believe any of this^^^^ I'll wait grabs popcorn

And if you somehow find your way around this I have more scriptures of blatant immorality to post

 

[so nyuh shi dae]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

This goes to the heart of the issue though. If my "proof" (proof in quotes because the element of faith is still involved) is that no human could have possible made the Qur'an (which is perfect, free from all error, contains many scientific facts not known at the time etc) and you claim the book was written by many.. changed/edited... etc (without any proof)....

the discussion goes nowhere (like most religion threads on NT discussions anywhere).

You refuse to believe that a human could have written the Qur'an, so you call that proof? Christians make the same claims about the Bible. I realize that you deny their claims, but it's a matter of you sitting here saying, "I'm right and they are wrong because I say so but I have no proof to support my assertions." Also, please share with me the scientific facts that the Qur'an supposedly predicted. 

 

[tkthafm]

I don't see any contradiction or anything immoral in what you just posted. Feel free to elaborate and show me 1 single contradiction (IE: 2 verses contradicting each other) not a copy/pasted list of verses from some website trying to throw dirt.

Islam is a complete way of life... even war. Obviously there are verses (in proper context) discussing this, as well as the limits. (not harming civilians, only in self defense etc)

Where is the contradiction ?

You ignore contrary evidence/arguments, and post your own lame, tired arguments (as if they are new... implying that I'm running away from this thread because you just dropped some new knowledge I can't respond to

) people have been using to attack Islam for centuries.

Seriously, PM me when you got something better. I don't have time to waste. This is what happens when you debate a topic with someone has no knowledge of it (outside of some copy/pasted verses w/o historical or linguistic context from google) .....
EDIT: to the dude above (another example of horrendous reading comprehension)... again you show your profound lack of knowledge. Christians do not believe the bible is directly from God, but rather a compilation written by man... and I already posted the link to the (some) of the science found in the Qur'an.... 

I already addressed why the bible is different (FIRST OF ALL WHAT BIBLE ARE WE TALKING ABOUT, WHICH ONE ?

)...the bible is a bunch of different books/versions, riddled with contradiction.. unlike the Qur'an.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by So Nyuh Shi Dae

Originally Posted by tkthafm

This goes to the heart of the issue though. If my "proof" (proof in quotes because the element of faith is still involved) is that no human could have possible made the Qur'an (which is perfect, free from all error, contains many scientific facts not known at the time etc) and you claim the book was written by many.. changed/edited... etc (without any proof)....

the discussion goes nowhere (like most religion threads on NT discussions anywhere).

You refuse to believe that a human could have written the Qur'an, so you call that proof? Christians make the same claims about the Bible. I realize that you deny their claims, but it's a matter of you sitting here saying, "I'm right and they are wrong because I say so but I have no proof to support my assertions." Also, please share with me the scientific facts that the Qur'an supposedly predicted. 

he posted a link

It's pedestrian sh^^ like, "Have good dental hygiene or you teeth will go bad"

He is basing Islam's validity on some of the technological and scientific advancements people made back in the day-Christianity and other religions made some equally impressive technological and scientific advancements-Egyptian mythology aka my favorite religious tradition made some predictions and built some structures that puts Islam to shame, does that make Egyptian mythology more valid?


I'm still waiting for dude to comment on the scriptures I posted, now it's been established that the koran is infallible