son comes out of the closet to his religous parents

[heliumclinton]

Also, no one has a tattoo on their forehead that says they are a homosexual...the only way someone knows someone else is a homosexual is if that person exposes themselves to you (except for masculine looking women, etc).  But point being, a homosexual has to make it openly known that they are gay for someone to know and at that point it is your business.

So a dude wearing a rainbow bracelet makes it your business? You can't just go on with your day?

 

[Comparison Ford]

 

Yeah I'm not getting your point

Are people saying you shouldn't hate gay people because they can't control it?

I thought people were saying you shouldn't hate gay people because who they have sex with is none of your business.

And other people would say that you should hate them because they are perverse but that is a matter of opinion not fact so you can't really tell someone who they can or can't hate. 

Also, no one has a tattoo on their forehead that says they are a homosexual...the only way someone knows someone else is a homosexual is if that person exposes themselves to you (except for masculine looking women, etc).  But point being, a homosexual has to make it openly known that they are gay for someone to know and at that point it is your business.

What is this foolishness? 

 

[Master Zik]

People discover new things about themselves all the time. It's apart of living a full life even if they're born that way.


I think laid out the possibilities/options. Why ignore one and focus on the other?

If that is the case what is the problem with sending gay children to "straight camp"? It gives them the chance to discover new things about themselves.

It should be their choice and it really should be for those that are questioning their sexuality and admit to not be clear on what they are.

I dunno if you ever been to a gay camp but it's not an open minded journey about sexuality

 

[yrwb]

It should be their choice and it really should be for those that are questioning their sexuality and admit to not be clear on what they are.

I dunno if you ever been to a gay camp but it's not an open minded journey about sexuality

But based on what you said children that label themselves as gay could very well be straight but not realize it...sending them to a straight camp would help them realize it....so if you truly believe what you said the other day, I don't think you'd have a problem with sending "gay" children to straight camp. 

 

[yrwb]

 
What is this foolishness? 

What's foolish about it? 

 

[yrwb]

So a dude wearing a rainbow bracelet makes it your business? You can't just go on with your day?

You said it wasn't our business...but the only way you know someone is a homosexual is if they make it your business...so therefore you are wrong.  

 

[jaysrcrak]

Shorty clearly said she realized she was a lesbian as she wrote for the show.

So she was subconsciously faking that heterosexual lifestyle. She thought she was straight and realized she wasn't. That's what we know so far. She never said she was attracted to men, decided to stop and then decided to start being attracted to women.

According to who? You?

She clearly expresses that she had an attraction for men, and thought of herself as heterosexual, throughout that article.

In any story worth telling, there's conflict. And so, while it certainly would have been disorienting to begin to question my sexuality after three decades of knowing myself, it was particularly blinding because I'd gotten married only a few months before.

Which is why it's now a punch in the gut every time I have to say, "I'm getting divorced because I'm gay."

I was finally forced to consider a question that had never, ever occurred to me before: Holy ****, am I gay?

She goes on to write that she:

Wondered if it was my birth control. I'd just switched to an IUD, could it be affecting whom I was attracted to?

Wanted to die. If being gay meant losing the person I loved most in the world,

Mourning the end of my marriage and the identity that I'd known for my entire life, I hadn't yet stopped to consider that I was now a part of this community.

So let's use some common sense here.
Here is a woman who CLEARLY identified herself as a heterosexual, for a majority of her life.
And your explanation of that is that for 30 years "she was subconsciously faking that heterosexual lifestyle" Really?
But now she identifies as a lesbian(NOT bi-sexual) and even says she is attracted to women.

That is EXACTLY what I was describing was the case with my lesbian friend. EXACTLY the same.
Which is what I have been saying the entire time.


But this is the main problem that I have with debating this subject.
The LGBT community will go to no end to prove that gender identity has gray areas and is NOT something that is all black or white.
Then they turn around and say sexual attraction is black and white. You're either this or that or were faking it.

Sexual fluidity exists. Both my lesbian friend AND Lauren Morelli are examples of it. Period.

 

[Master Zik]

It should be their choice and it really should be for those that are questioning their sexuality and admit to not be clear on what they are.


I dunno if you ever been to a gay camp but it's not an open minded journey about sexuality

But based on what you said children that label themselves as gay could very well be straight but not realize it...sending them to a straight camp would help them realize it....so if you truly believe what you said the other day, I don't think you'd have a problem with sending "gay" children to straight camp. 

What children labeling themselves as gay?

How about you let these "children" continue to live their lives gaining different experiences and grow in to adulthood to see if they'll change their minds or realize they were mistaken.

Again yes I would have a problem, I don't think you know what a gay camp is and the implications in a parent deciding something like that for their child.

So again it should be the individual's choice if they wanted to take part in that. Not a "camp". There's no way what I'm saying can be viewed as the advocacy of camps to attempt to change or reprogram a person's way of thinking. That's solely up to them if they want to change their minds.

I just want to stress again a person being confused about their sexuality doesn't give the green light for them to be sent to sexual re-education camps.

 

[Master Zik]

According to who? You?

According to her.

She clearly expresses that she had an attraction for men, and thought of herself as heterosexual, throughout that article.

So she's attracted to both?

In any story worth telling, there's conflict. And so, while it certainly would have been disorienting to begin to question my sexuality after three decades of knowing myself, it was particularly blinding because I'd gotten married only a few months before.

Which is why it's now a punch in the gut every time I have to say, "I'm getting divorced because I'm gay."

I was finally forced to consider a question that had never, ever occurred to me before: Holy ****, am I gay?

She goes on to write that she:

Wondered if it was my birth control. I'd just switched to an IUD, could it be affecting whom I was attracted to?

Wanted to die. If being gay meant losing the person I loved most in the world,

Mourning the end of my marriage and the identity that I'd known for my entire life, I hadn't yet stopped to consider that I was now a part of this community.

So let's use some common sense here.
Here is a woman who CLEARLY identified herself as a heterosexual, for a majority of her life.
And your explanation of that is that for 30 years "she was subconsciously faking that heterosexual lifestyle" Really?
But now she identifies as a lesbian(NOT bi-sexual) and even says she is attracted to women.

That is EXACTLY what I was describing was the case with my lesbian friend. EXACTLY the same.
Which is what I have been saying the entire time.


But this is the main problem that I have with debating this subject.
The LGBT community will go to no end to prove that gender identity has gray areas and is NOT something that is all black or white.
Then they turn around and say sexual attraction is black and white. You're either this or that or were faking it.

Sexual fluidity exists. Both my lesbian friend AND Lauren Morelli are examples of it. Period.

I don't know how many times I can repeat my stance to you.

If you're claiming she decided to change her attraction, you're wrong.

 

[Mark Antony]

All we know and people still try to paint attraction as black & white. I know what I like and don't see it changing, but can't always say the same for the next person. Not for her, not for Spartans thousands of years ago.

 

[jaysrcrak]

I know your stance.
And like I said before. prove it.

Show me some definitive scientific proof of your stance, and I will consider it. But you failed to do that. You just keep repeating you're wrong.
You can say all day that Im "wrong." It doesnt mean that I actually am.

And neither one of us knows beyond the shadow of a doubt EXACTLY how attraction works.(key word exactly)

The difference is;
I am saying that there may be a gray area there( based on personal experience as well as a precedent for this type of thing happening.)
And all you can say is " You're wrong. It dont work like that"

|I

 

[Master Zik]

I know your stance.
And like I said before. prove it.

You want me to prove that ppl can't choose who they're attracted to?

That's not how it works. I don't need to prove a negative.

But like I said before we can see how you thinking I'm wrong go by answering this question I asked you before, when did you choose to be attracted to a person? How did you choose to be attracted to that person and why? What were the qualities and features you were looking to put value in when you were thinking about your choices? When did you choose to be heterosexual or homosexual or bisexual?

If you're telling me right now you chose who you are attracted to and can choose your sexual orientation or that someone can do that well then we need to rush you to some of the top sexual behavior scientists to see how your mind functions differently from everybody else's or it could simply be that it's all bull ****.

If you want the hard facts and studies for this, the research behind it I suggest you look it up.

And neither one of us knows beyond the shadow of a doubt EXACTLY how attraction works.(key word exactly)

I'm pretty sure other than you most ppl know they can't choose who they're attracted to like they choose what clothes they're gonna wear on a given day.

But apparently I've even taken that for granted according to you.

 

[heliumclinton]

So a dude wearing a rainbow bracelet makes it your business? You can't just go on with your day?

You said it wasn't our business...but the only way you know someone is a homosexual is if they make it your business...so therefore you are wrong.  

The saddest part is you believe what you just typed, acknowledging something doesn't make it your business dude

 

[keko jones]

I don't know why you guy are wasting your time arguing with Zik ... Dude is will always think he is right and speak for the feelings of others not his own. Do can two you what you feel and think even when you age telling him something else.

 

[jaysrcrak]

There are documented cases of this hapenning.
So to say that it cant happen because it doesnt work that way is beyond stupid.

Im sure it was some dudes just like you in the 19th Century talmbout
"You cant sail around the world. It doesnt work like that. Everybody knows the world is flat"

Believe whatever you want to believe
That is all.

 

[Master Zik]

There are documented cases of this hapenning.
So to say that it cant happen because it doesnt work that way is beyond stupid.

There are documented cases of ppl choosing who they're attracted to?

Aware me bro

Im sure it was some dudes just like you in the 19th Century talmbout
"You cant sail around the world. It doesnt work like that. Everybody knows the world is flat"

Trying to compare this issue of attraction where you're now saying ppl can choose who they're attracted to, literally controlling how their mind and body work to pick who they feel some way about whether it be due to aesthetics or personality to ppl doubting someone who said they'd sail around the world is all types of egregious ignorance. The fact that you can't see the difference in the issue of ability in each situation says a lot about how you're going about this.

I'm not surprised you didn't answer any of my questions though.

I don't know why you guy are wasting your time arguing with Zik ... Dude is will always think he is right and speak for the feelings of others not his own. .

Still salty bro

Do can two you what you feel and think even when you age telling him something else

Still not making sense