The 2014-2015 NBA Season Thread. Lock It Up Please: The Golden State Warriors Are The Champions

[grandtheftbike]

Thats why their is something called field goal percentage

So please tell me how advanced stats are more useful than the ordinary nba stat categories

Per 36= guessing game

fg% lumps everything together. i want to know where a guy is most efficient. right wing? corner? left wing? he's 0/10 shooting long 2s but 10/10 going to the basket...but he's shooting 50% from the field

 

[finallyfamous]

Dion

 

[pmatic]

There needs to be a shift to eFG%, particularly for perimeter players. It paints a picture of how good of a shooter a player really is because it weights three pointers.

 

[shoeking2101]

There needs to be a shift to eFG%, particularly for perimeter players. It paints a picture of how good of a shooter a player really is because it weights three pointers.

agreed

 

[jay y kay]

Dion Waiters looking like the Top-5 SG he was born to be.......

...just don't say I never told ya'.

He certainly got the swagger and confidence for the spot. He gotta improve his shot selection but I believe Bron gonna straighten him out sooner rather than later.

 

[pmatic]

Since #TheReturn has taken place, will Bill Simmons move on from ESPN? http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/15/s...urn-sets-intrigue-in-motion-at-espn.html?_r=1

The only way I see him leaving is if he tries to create his own online network type of thing......

And I feel like the margin of error is huge if he goes the route... Just stay on ESPN Bill...

I wonder if he would fit under the Turner umbrella...

 

[do work son]

Ouch.

isn't that an offensive foul? i thought you're not allowed to hand it off then step into the defender chasing?

 

[lawdog1]

I wonder if he would fit under the Turner umbrella...

I don't see him fitting in with the Inside crew at all. And I don't really like him as a game analyst. So, I don't see him going over there.

 

[shoeking2101]

isn't that an offensive foul? i thought you're not allowed to hand it off then step into the defender chasing?

Nah, you can hand off in that manner, as long as you aren't turning your body to try and make contact with the defender. Adams was already faced in the direction of the incoming player as he was handing the ball so he didn't actually 'make' the contact, dude just ran into him.

 

[lawdog1]

Nah, you can hand off in that manner, as long as you aren't turning your body to try and make contact with the defender. Adams was already faced in the direction of the incoming player as he was handing the ball so he didn't actually 'make' the contact, dude just ran into him.

I think it could have gone either way. It looks like Adams took a slight step toward the defender and turned his body a bit, which I've seen get called as an offensive foul. It wouldn't have been outrageous if a ref called it a foul, but I also think its fine they let it go.

 

[do work son]

yao ming used to get called for petty **** like that all the time

 

[finallyfamous]

Stop crying.

 

[awwsome]

Dion Waiters looking like the Top-5 SG he was born to be.......

...just don't say I never told ya'.

Wade 2.0.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

Analytics only work in baseball. In badketball they're pointless noise.

I wouldnt go this far, they do serve a purpose. Analytics have played a roll in the rise of threes in the league, its proven how valuable the three really is. But yeah it does get overblown from time to time.

I'm so glad Bill and Jalen is back

Honestly Anti, I don't need anayltics and math to tell me how important the 3ball is. I've learned the importance of knocking down triples from watching teams do it on a regular basis. I also know how it could kill a team if they get greedy. Folks put too much emphasis on numbers and lose touch with what matters, watching game tape.

 

[mgrand15]

Nah just the people who use advanced stats as some sort of credibility

"Well according to his per 36 hes more efficient blah blah" foh

If you're going to dismiss it, at least understand it. If you don't understand it or don't try to, then don't talk about it.

Every stat has context behind it and all of them have strengths and weaknesses. The better you understand it, the more you can apply it when evaluating players. Per 36 might be the simplest stat and you're acting like it's something crazy. If Player A plays 42 MPG and scores 20 points and Player B plays 30 MPG and scores 19 points - does it take rocket science to tell you who's the better per minute scorer? Per 36 just gives you a quick glance at both player numbers while playing starter minutes. Yes, everyone realizes if you take a bench players 10 MPG average and bring it up to PER36, it may not directly translate. All of that is taken into account when real people talk about it though.

Thats why their is something called field goal percentage

So please tell me how advanced stats are more useful than the ordinary nba stat categories

Per 36= guessing game

Field goal % doesn't take into account FT attempts or FT%. Nor does it take into account the amount of 3s you take. If a big man makes 47% of his shots but doesn't take any FTs or 3s - he's not actually playing that well offensively. It's what separates a really good big man scorer from a Haslem/Brandon Bass type big man. 47% looks pretty good but it doesn't tell the whole story. If KD shoots 47% while taking 7 3s a game, shooting 40% from 3 and getting to the FT line 12 times a game - he's ELITE. All FG% aren't equal and that's why efficiency stats help. They take that stuff into account.

 

[mgrand15]

Honestly Anti, I don't need anayltics and math to tell me how important the 3ball is. I've learned the importance of knocking down triples from watching teams do it on a regular basis. I also know how it could kill a team if they get greedy. Folks put too much emphasis on numbers and lose touch with what matters, watching game tape.

But who said you have to choose between game tape and numbers? Most guys that understand analytics watch basketball 24/7. It's not just nerds crunching numbers in a lab.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

Keep it simple. Why do I need al this data backing up what my eyes see? This isn't baseball where the game is so intricate and you need as much data as possible.

 

[certifiedflyboi23]

That PER **** is stupid.

 

[shoeking2101]

That PER **** is stupid.

PER is stupid now? Oh okay

 

[shoeking2101]

Keep it simple. Why do I need al this data backing up what my eyes see? This isn't baseball where the game is so intricate and you need as much data as possible.

Because the eye test doesn't tell you the entire story all of the time. Duh.

 

[awwsome]

I believe in Exum, Bill and Jalen can go to hell.

 

[datznasty]

 

[big j 33]

mgrand explained it better than I could. FG% doesn't tell the whole story, so there's more ADVANCED stats to accurately reflect a player's shooting.

Plus I already gave an example with something like rebounding. Traditional rebound stats just tell you how many rebounds a player grabs per game, but doesn't reflect the pace of their offense (more shots = more opportunities for rebounds), or FG% (lower % equals more missed shots and more rebound opportunities). So something like Rebounding % tells you the % of rebounds a player gets while he's on the floor.

Advanced stats are useful when traditional stats don't tell the whole story.

And again, no one is saying you have to subscribe to EVERY SINGLE advanced metric out there... but there are some basic ones that make a lot more sense than traditional ones.

And JRS, because what one person's eye test tells them might not be the same as what yours tells you. You might see a player and say "He's a great scorer, he shoots it well and can hit from anywhere on the floor" because you saw him one game hit a variety of jumpers or score from the post. When in reality, that's not really how he plays. That on average, he might be a worse shooter than you think or see. That he really isn't that efficient from a certain spot on the floor despite what your eyes tell you.

In simplest terms, because the eye test is subjective. I'm not going to swear up and down that "numbers never lie" and can't be misleading or misconstrued, because they can be... but what's the harm in having the data and numbers to backup what your eyes tell you? If everyone is so great at judging and evaluating, then the numbers should back it up, right?

 

[shoeking2101]

mgrand explained it better than I could. FG% doesn't tell the whole story, so there's more ADVANCED stats to accurately reflect a player's shooting.

Plus I already gave an example with something like rebounding. Traditional rebound stats just tell you how many rebounds a player grabs per game, but doesn't reflect the pace of their offense (more shots = more opportunities for rebounds), or FG% (lower % equals more missed shots and more rebound opportunities). So something like Rebounding % tells you the % of rebounds a player gets while he's on the floor.

Advanced stats are useful when traditional stats don't tell the whole story.

And again, no one is saying you have to subscribe to EVERY SINGLE advanced metric out there... but there are some basic ones that make a lot more sense than traditional ones.

And JRS, because what one person's eye test tells them might not be the same as what yours tells you. You might see a player and say "He's a great scorer, he shoots it well and can hit from anywhere on the floor" because you saw him one game hit a variety of jumpers or score from the post. When in reality, that's not really how he plays. That on average, he might be a worse shooter than you think or see. That he really isn't that efficient from a certain spot on the floor despite what your eyes tell you.

In simplest terms, because the eye test is subjective. I'm not going to swear up and down that "numbers never lie" and can't be misleading or misconstrued, because they can be... but what's the harm in having the data and numbers to backup what your eyes tell you? If everyone is so great at judging and evaluating, then the numbers should back it up, right?

 

[shoeking2101]

If you're going to dismiss it, at least understand it. If you don't understand it or don't try to, then don't talk about it.

Every stat has context behind it and all of them have strengths and weaknesses. The better you understand it, the more you can apply it when evaluating players. Per 36 might be the simplest stat and you're acting like it's something crazy. If Player A plays 42 MPG and scores 20 points and Player B plays 30 MPG and scores 19 points - does it take rocket science to tell you who's the better per minute scorer? Per 36 just gives you a quick glance at both player numbers while playing starter minutes. Yes, everyone realizes if you take a bench players 10 MPG average and bring it up to PER36, it may not directly translate. All of that is taken into account when real people talk about it though.
Field goal % doesn't take into account FT attempts or FT%. Nor does it take into account the amount of 3s you take. If a big man makes 47% of his shots but doesn't take any FTs or 3s - he's not actually playing that well offensively. It's what separates a really good big man scorer from a Haslem/Brandon Bass type big man. 47% looks pretty good but it doesn't tell the whole story. If KD shoots 47% while taking 7 3s a game, shooting 40% from 3 and getting to the FT line 12 times a game - he's ELITE. All FG% aren't equal and that's why efficiency stats help. They take that stuff into account.