The Mecca in Decline: Why doesn’t New York City produce elite NBA talent like it used to? (article)

[osh kosh bosh]

I think the constricting of the Black middle class in NYC is by far the best theory I've heard.

What do we know about producing elite athletes in a skill based sport like Basketball?

the idea that poor athlete having more motivation and is therefore more successful. we know now is wrong; the more money you have, the more resources the better chance of becoming an NBA caliber athlete.


BUT

at a certain point the amount of money you stops mattering, there are only so many camps, training equipment you can buy for your child so in a city like NYC where there may be more black millionaires the amount of money isn't going to make up for the fact that their simply isn't enough of them.

a neighborhood in lets say in North Carolina with 100 black family's that make 70+K a year is going to produce more basketball players than a neighborhood in NYC that has 5 black millionaires.

you still have to hit the genetic lottery to be in the NBA, you want more rolls of the dice.

The best place to produce NBA players has got to be a place with a large amount of middle class to upper middle class black families.

 

[Hank Scorpio]

The weather has to be the poorest excuse ever. We got Canadians in the league now.

Is there an NYC dude out there that can admit basketball and hip hop have fallen off? Are y'all that prideful?

So, I assume you just want to read the posts you want? Look at my posts. I clearly say NYC basketball isn't what it used to be. Same goes for NYC hip-hop.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

That might be why Toronto is stronger right now than NYC.

You have a large amount of black middle class families, it was easier to get into Canada in the 70's,80's and 90's. A bunch mount of our high major talents are children of middle class Jamican and Nigerian immigrants.

 

[mjsaver]

The weather has to be the poorest excuse ever. We got Canadians in the league now.

Is there an NYC dude out there that can admit basketball and hip hop have fallen off? Are y'all that prideful?

So, I assume you just want to read the posts you want? Look at my posts. I clearly say NYC basketball isn't what it used to be. Same goes for NYC hip-hop.

What I find hypocritical tho is how people complain about hip hop as a whole has fallen off, same goes for basketball...I read and hear a lot about the lack of fundamentals has hurt the game and how it's hurting the game.

But then they turn around and say how NY has fallen off in both areas so which one is it ? Did these things fall off altogether or just in NY ?

And if it's not just NY why are we addressing it as such ?

 

[addict4sneakers]

more 1st round draft picks in the last 5 years have been from Canada than NY. It's not even close.


And when did NYC ever dominate? Kareem? This is where you're killing me. Y'all didn't invent basketball. Basketball has always been bigger than NY and always will be.

in terms of hs domination. kareem or kenny anderson the best to ever do it so why would i or anyone run away from that

canada has 1st round picks, but what tangible stars do you have? because nyc is producing hs talent as well, maybe not in nyc but these are nyc players

no one is dominating now, save for texas. the talent is spread out, which seems fairly natural to me. of course basketball is bigger than nyc, so is hip hop. we just are the place that made it shine, there's zero debate about that.

Is this sentence here "we made it shine." How? I understand the nostalgia that is playing at the garden and Rucker park. But please point to me the influence NY has had on basketball in terms of a particular player or players. Cause Steve Nash made Canadian basketball. Vince carter helped. What player from NYC has laid out a clear blueprint to the way kids are playing?

I'm not even serious about NYC hip hop.

 

[Hank Scorpio]

What I find hypocritical tho is how people complain about hip hop as a whole has fallen off, same goes for basketball...I read and hear a lot about the lack of fundamentals has hurt the game and how it's hurting the game.

But then they turn around and say how NY has fallen off in both areas so which one is it ? Did these things fall off altogether or just in NY ?

And if it's not just NY why are we addressing it as such ?

I personally think Hip-Hop has fallen off as a whole. The message and idea behind Hip-Hop isn't what we hear now. I doubt we'll ever get back to that.

Basketball is a different story. Obviously, the game is getting more advanced and players are much better now than they were years ago. But a lot of the fundamentals of the game is missing. Does this compromise the quality of the game? Not really, but that doesn't mean it's not important.

 

[breezyhamilton]

I think the constricting of the Black middle class in NYC is by far the best theory I've heard.

What do we know about producing elite athletes in a skill based sport like Basketball?

the idea that poor athlete having more motivation and is therefore more successful. we know now is wrong; the more money you have, the more resources the better chance of becoming an NBA caliber athlete.


BUT

at a certain point the amount of money you stops mattering, there are only so many camps, training equipment you can buy for your child so in a city like NYC where there may be more black millionaires the amount of money isn't going to make up for the fact that their simply isn't enough of them.

a neighborhood in lets say in North Carolina with 100 black family's that make 70+K a year is going to produce more basketball players than a neighborhood in NYC that has 5 black millionaires.

you still have to hit the genetic lottery to be in the NBA, you want more rolls of the dice.

The best place to produce NBA players has got to be a place with a large amount of middle class to upper middle class black families.

another valid point, among others.

So, I assume you just want to read the posts you want? Look at my posts. I clearly say NYC basketball isn't what it used to be. Same goes for NYC hip-hop.

flawed argument though, other places are just doing it now so you have to expect that the pie for nyc is going to get smaller. every year we hear about the euro invasion in the nba. things spread  

 

[breezyhamilton]

Is this sentence here "we made it shine." How? I understand the nostalgia that is playing at the garden and Rucker park. But please point to me the influence NY has had on basketball in terms of a particular player or players. Cause Steve Nash made Canadian basketball. Vince carter helped. What player from NYC has laid out a clear blueprint to the way kids are playing?

I'm not even serious about NYC hip hop.

 

[mjsaver]

What I find hypocritical tho is how people complain about hip hop as a whole has fallen off, same goes for basketball...I read and hear a lot about the lack of fundamentals has hurt the game and how it's hurting the game.

But then they turn around and say how NY has fallen off in both areas so which one is it ? Did these things fall off altogether or just in NY ?

And if it's not just NY why are we addressing it as such ?

I personally think Hip-Hop has fallen off as a whole. The message and idea behind Hip-Hop isn't what we hear now. I doubt we'll ever get back to that.

Basketball is a different story. Obviously, the game is getting more advanced and players are much better now than they were years ago. But a lot of the fundamentals of the game is missing. Does this compromise the quality of the game? Not really, but that doesn't mean it's not important.

That's my point tho , if **** is falling off all around the country why do we only see the NYC has fallen of threads ?

Where are the fall off threads for the other cities is my question ?

Just shows a complete bias and double standard towards the rotten apple

 

[keel252]

I think the constricting of the Black middle class in NYC is by far the best theory I've heard.

What do we know about producing elite athletes in a skill based sport like Basketball?

the idea that poor athlete having more motivation and is therefore more successful. we know now is wrong; the more money you have, the more resources the better chance of becoming an NBA caliber athlete.


BUT

at a certain point the amount of money you stops mattering, there are only so many camps, training equipment you can buy for your child so in a city like NYC where there may be more black millionaires the amount of money isn't going to make up for the fact that their simply isn't enough of them.

a neighborhood in lets say in North Carolina with 100 black family's that make 70+K a year is going to produce more basketball players than a neighborhood in NYC that has 5 black millionaires.

you still have to hit the genetic lottery to be in the NBA, you want more rolls of the dice.

The best place to produce NBA players has got to be a place with a large amount of middle class to upper middle class black families.

great point.

 

[OrangeBlueGarden]

Man it's all Holy. The females in NYC won b' how hard is it to stay focused when a dude might think it don't get no better than Washington Heightz..

 

[frshstunna]

Seems like alotta NYC players leave the city to finish school...and some just get lost in the shuffle and moving around

 

[OrangeBlueGarden]

Carmelo Anthony won. Truth be told. NYC ball is probably judged at a bigger level. You just have to play for the New York Knicks and people will compare the experience to some holy NYC comeup.

Riverbank Won.

 

[frshstunna]

Carmelo Anthony won. Truth be told. NYC ball is probably judged at a bigger level. You just have to play for the New York Knicks and people will compare the experience to some holy NYC comeup.

Riverbank Won.

Translate that mane...No idea what you're saying

 

[Hank Scorpio]

Man it's all Holy. The females in NYC won b' how hard is it to stay focused when a dude might think it don't get no better than Washington Heightz..

Well said?

I get what you mean though. There's too many distractions here in NYC. I don't blame the better kids to leave and play with less distractions.

 

[galaxynexus]

YouTube has done more damage than the article states though.

Think about it...recruiting is now a global game. Anyone can pul out an iPhone or use iMovie to cut a highlight tape. College coaches don't need to go to old faithful recruiting grounds to find their next shooter, big, PG, etc.

The internet has leveled the playing field not only for sports but education (Khan academy, online classes, MOOCs, etc).

I applaud this evolution...it empowers folks and provides a relatively more even playing field.

 

[wavycrocket]

Wait what? I see people in this thread saying Rose has an NYC guard game, when The chi has been putting out guards for decades. Lol.

Also the weather excuse is hilarious. Chicago is cold as s***. DC, MD, Bmore, Philly, Toronto are cold as well. Still putting out top talent.

The true reason is probably what Taj Gibson said in that NYC basketball is all guard and pound the rock oriented.

 

[shoeking2101]

I think the constricting of the Black middle class in NYC is by far the best theory I've heard.

What do we know about producing elite athletes in a skill based sport like Basketball?

the idea that poor athlete having more motivation and is therefore more successful. we know now is wrong; the more money you have, the more resources the better chance of becoming an NBA caliber athlete.


BUT

at a certain point the amount of money you stops mattering, there are only so many camps, training equipment you can buy for your child so in a city like NYC where there may be more black millionaires the amount of money isn't going to make up for the fact that their simply isn't enough of them.

a neighborhood in lets say in North Carolina with 100 black family's that make 70+K a year is going to produce more basketball players than a neighborhood in NYC that has 5 black millionaires.

you still have to hit the genetic lottery to be in the NBA, you want more rolls of the dice.

The best place to produce NBA players has got to be a place with a large amount of middle class to upper middle class black families.

 

[phuzzy badpheet]

Eh', we had a good run.

1. Crack/Drug game in the 80's

2. Racist Mayor allowing inner cities to deteriorate, policing, laws imprisoning young men of color at a high rate.

3. Corrupt Coaches looking out for themselves, instead of teaching the game thoroughly, not focusing on fundamentals.

4. AAU

5. Great players from NYC leaving, then never coming back to simply play in the parks with younger players, it's too dangerous. There was a time that you'd see Doc, Pearl Washington, balling with nobodies, just playing, who then in turn learn the game from the best. Dudes would come home from school in the summer, then play against each other, showing their new skills, gear,  but jealousy, danger, stopped all of that, and I don't blame them one bit.

Things evolve, and I do believe that the decline in hoops even at the pro level, is due to the fact that it is no longer organic. The game and players are processed now, which sucks. I used to be able to go to a park in NYC, then just get some run in the summer.

Now, courts are empty, and often, I wind up simply shooting by myself. 

 

[worldbeefreeg]

Except for Osh's post, this thread since my first few posts has been awful.

As an NYC native, we aren't very good at basketball anymore (at an elite level). We rarely produce top level athletes. Joakim Noah, Ron Artest and Stephon Marbury are the most successful NYC basketball players in the past 25 or so years. These are facts.

 

[breezyhamilton]

Except for Osh's post, this thread since my first few posts has been awful.

As an NYC native, we aren't very good at basketball anymore (at an elite level). We rarely produce top level athletes. Joakim Noah, Ron Artest and Stephon Marbury are the most successful NYC basketball players in the past 25 or so years. These are facts.

but no one is debating nyc isn't where it used to be in creating the elite pro talent. we're looking for reasons. this thread has been a lot of laughing off or shooting down theories without those posters offering any tangible ones