The Official NBA Collective Bargaining Thread vol Phased in Hard Cap

[gangsta207therevolution]

There is the title. Since the Finals are boring me I thought why not.
Articles will be posted tracking the progress of the negotiations
And as we get the updates speculate as to what might happen.
In the interest of keeping this thread organized every article will be linked in this first post.
Personally I don't want to read the "Its just millionaires fighting billionaires" quip. But your entitled to do it if you must.
httphttp://www.nba.com/2011/news/featur...on-tip-labor-collective-bargaining/index.html://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/david_aldridge/02/21/afternoon-tip-labor-collective-bargaining/index.html
First half covers most of all star weekend and what went on.
httphttp://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=mc-spears_nba_players_union_labor_negotiations_060111://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=mc-spears_nba_players_union_labor_negotiations_060111
Latest article showing that maybe more progress has been made no specifics.
Here is my opinion. Share yours.
New Orleans still needs to be sold
Detroit's sale just got finished today.
Golden state, and Charlotte just got sold last year.
Sacramento and I would argue Milwaukee need to be sold
Without sustained revenue the value of the leagues teams will go down.
Revenue sharing will reduce the value of these teams ( none of them is in a great market)
Realistically you cannot ask 5 owners to take a significant hit just to preserve the other 25.
This soft cap has to go imo
Guaranteed contracts have to go.
the 51- 53 hard cap number is a bit extreme.
I would prefer to see the hard cap at 60, and frozen at that number until the next negociation.
No body takes direct salary cuts for the next 5 years. meaning that I want an Ammesty clause.
and if the issues arent somewhat solved in the next 5 years you seriously look at contraction.
Revenue sharing only applies to make teams break even. But that number is calculated on the Salary cap number, and the cost's of functioning as determined by indepedent accountants.
So if Charlotte loses 20 million dollars and 15 is attributed to the Ammesty clause and in reality Michael only loses 5 million dollars than the leagues profitable teams
Chicago, Boston Dallas, LA etc would only have to pony up even amounts until they themselves were even. All excess they keep.
I figure that would last about 10 years or so until the next wave of stadiums needed to be built and no one has money, but at least imo its a start.
Pmatic posted this

According to league spokesman Michael Bass, the meeting included commissioner David Stern, deputy commissioner Adam Silver, NBPA executive director Billy Hunter and the union's "in-house staff."

"We're not disclosing what was discussed in the meeting," Bass said.

A larger meeting including the owners' full labor relations committee and the players' executive committee is scheduled for Friday in Manhattan.

With the countdown under way to the expiration of the league's collective bargaining agreement on June 30, the two sides remain hundreds of millions of dollars apart, sources told CBSSports.com. The owners have twice offered to delay their vision of at least a 33 percent pay cut for the players, delivered through a hard salary cap with shorter and non-guaranteed contracts -- first through a two-year phase-in and then, in a verbal offer during the Finals, by adding at least one more year to "soften the landing," one of the people with knowledge of the talks said Tuesday. But once the phase-in period ends, the owners are still insistent on their original plan -- proposed in January 2010 -- to deduct approximately $900 million in expenses from the league's basketball-related income (BRI) and reduce the players' share of that from 57 percent to a 50-50 split, multiple sources told CBSSports.com.

Given that league revenues in 2009-10 -- the last season for which final numbers are available -- totaled about $3.6 billion, the players would get half of the $2.7 billion left after expenses, or $1.35 billion. That's $700 million less than the players' share under the current system, or a reduction of more than one-third.

Coming out of last week's full-scale bargaining session in Dallas, verbal proposals from both sides needed to be formalized in writing, and the union requested more extensive revenue projections from the league since the owners have proposed a 10-year CBA. After Stern expressed optimism following one of the bargaining sessions during the Finals, he said last week it would be a "challenge" to avoid a lockout. NBPA president Derek Fisher revealed the same day that there was "no change at all" in the owners' demands.

 

[gangsta207therevolution]

There is the title. Since the Finals are boring me I thought why not.
Articles will be posted tracking the progress of the negotiations
And as we get the updates speculate as to what might happen.
In the interest of keeping this thread organized every article will be linked in this first post.
Personally I don't want to read the "Its just millionaires fighting billionaires" quip. But your entitled to do it if you must.
httphttp://www.nba.com/2011/news/featur...on-tip-labor-collective-bargaining/index.html://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/david_aldridge/02/21/afternoon-tip-labor-collective-bargaining/index.html
First half covers most of all star weekend and what went on.
httphttp://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=mc-spears_nba_players_union_labor_negotiations_060111://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=mc-spears_nba_players_union_labor_negotiations_060111
Latest article showing that maybe more progress has been made no specifics.
Here is my opinion. Share yours.
New Orleans still needs to be sold
Detroit's sale just got finished today.
Golden state, and Charlotte just got sold last year.
Sacramento and I would argue Milwaukee need to be sold
Without sustained revenue the value of the leagues teams will go down.
Revenue sharing will reduce the value of these teams ( none of them is in a great market)
Realistically you cannot ask 5 owners to take a significant hit just to preserve the other 25.
This soft cap has to go imo
Guaranteed contracts have to go.
the 51- 53 hard cap number is a bit extreme.
I would prefer to see the hard cap at 60, and frozen at that number until the next negociation.
No body takes direct salary cuts for the next 5 years. meaning that I want an Ammesty clause.
and if the issues arent somewhat solved in the next 5 years you seriously look at contraction.
Revenue sharing only applies to make teams break even. But that number is calculated on the Salary cap number, and the cost's of functioning as determined by indepedent accountants.
So if Charlotte loses 20 million dollars and 15 is attributed to the Ammesty clause and in reality Michael only loses 5 million dollars than the leagues profitable teams
Chicago, Boston Dallas, LA etc would only have to pony up even amounts until they themselves were even. All excess they keep.
I figure that would last about 10 years or so until the next wave of stadiums needed to be built and no one has money, but at least imo its a start.
Pmatic posted this

According to league spokesman Michael Bass, the meeting included commissioner David Stern, deputy commissioner Adam Silver, NBPA executive director Billy Hunter and the union's "in-house staff."

"We're not disclosing what was discussed in the meeting," Bass said.

A larger meeting including the owners' full labor relations committee and the players' executive committee is scheduled for Friday in Manhattan.

With the countdown under way to the expiration of the league's collective bargaining agreement on June 30, the two sides remain hundreds of millions of dollars apart, sources told CBSSports.com. The owners have twice offered to delay their vision of at least a 33 percent pay cut for the players, delivered through a hard salary cap with shorter and non-guaranteed contracts -- first through a two-year phase-in and then, in a verbal offer during the Finals, by adding at least one more year to "soften the landing," one of the people with knowledge of the talks said Tuesday. But once the phase-in period ends, the owners are still insistent on their original plan -- proposed in January 2010 -- to deduct approximately $900 million in expenses from the league's basketball-related income (BRI) and reduce the players' share of that from 57 percent to a 50-50 split, multiple sources told CBSSports.com.

Given that league revenues in 2009-10 -- the last season for which final numbers are available -- totaled about $3.6 billion, the players would get half of the $2.7 billion left after expenses, or $1.35 billion. That's $700 million less than the players' share under the current system, or a reduction of more than one-third.

Coming out of last week's full-scale bargaining session in Dallas, verbal proposals from both sides needed to be formalized in writing, and the union requested more extensive revenue projections from the league since the owners have proposed a 10-year CBA. After Stern expressed optimism following one of the bargaining sessions during the Finals, he said last week it would be a "challenge" to avoid a lockout. NBPA president Derek Fisher revealed the same day that there was "no change at all" in the owners' demands.

 

[statis22]

Agree to salary cutbacks, but I believe players should stand firmly on no franchise tag.

 

[statis22]

Agree to salary cutbacks, but I believe players should stand firmly on no franchise tag.

 

[i am that dude]

Looking at some teams' salary structures, it seems so difficult to imagine how they are going to come to a hard cap. Even assuming they give you the Allan Houston rule on 1 player, teams like the Lakers or Mavs are going to still be way over. Shouldn't they just add up all the teams salary commitments, then divide by 30?

 

[i am that dude]

Looking at some teams' salary structures, it seems so difficult to imagine how they are going to come to a hard cap. Even assuming they give you the Allan Houston rule on 1 player, teams like the Lakers or Mavs are going to still be way over. Shouldn't they just add up all the teams salary commitments, then divide by 30?

 

[jja89]

NBA needs a hard cap

 

[jja89]

NBA needs a hard cap

 

[|A-Man|]

So who is gonna provide all of the rumor articles that have already been out for a while?

 

[|A-Man|]

So who is gonna provide all of the rumor articles that have already been out for a while?

 

[pmatic]

A combination of what I would like to see and expect to see:
Hard cap at $70 million, give teams two to three years to get there
Amnesty clause to waive one player from their books
Rollback existing salaries
Eliminate the Mid-level exception
Players can sign with a new team for up to three years
Players can re-sign with their own team for up to five years
Draft entrants have to be 20 years old and out of HS at least two years

 

[pmatic]

A combination of what I would like to see and expect to see:
Hard cap at $70 million, give teams two to three years to get there
Amnesty clause to waive one player from their books
Rollback existing salaries
Eliminate the Mid-level exception
Players can sign with a new team for up to three years
Players can re-sign with their own team for up to five years
Draft entrants have to be 20 years old and out of HS at least two years

 

[2heavencent0]

Originally Posted by PMatic

A combination of what I would like to see and expect to see:
Hard cap at $70 million, give teams two to three years to get there
Amnesty clause to waive one player from their books
Rollback existing salaries
Eliminate the Mid-level exception
Players can sign with a new team for up to three years
Players can re-sign with their own team for up to five years
Draft entrants have to be 20 years old and out of HS at least two years

Damn, pretty good insight here... Not a fan of the hard cap... It sucks that teams like the Knicks and Hawks cant make better choices on who they give max money to.. (Eddy Curry and Joe Johnson are not max players)

 

[2heavencent0]

Originally Posted by PMatic

A combination of what I would like to see and expect to see:
Hard cap at $70 million, give teams two to three years to get there
Amnesty clause to waive one player from their books
Rollback existing salaries
Eliminate the Mid-level exception
Players can sign with a new team for up to three years
Players can re-sign with their own team for up to five years
Draft entrants have to be 20 years old and out of HS at least two years

Damn, pretty good insight here... Not a fan of the hard cap... It sucks that teams like the Knicks and Hawks cant make better choices on who they give max money to.. (Eddy Curry and Joe Johnson are not max players)

 

[statis22]

I think initially starting a hard cap at $70 million is high. Isn't the current LT threshold around that now?

 

[statis22]

I think initially starting a hard cap at $70 million is high. Isn't the current LT threshold around that now?

 

[pmatic]

Originally Posted by Statis22

I think initially starting a hard cap at $70 million is high. Isn't the current LT threshold around that now?

Yeah it was at $70.307 million this past season.

I'm trying to look out for Lakers damn it.

 

[pmatic]

Originally Posted by Statis22

I think initially starting a hard cap at $70 million is high. Isn't the current LT threshold around that now?

Yeah it was at $70.307 million this past season.

I'm trying to look out for Lakers damn it.

 

[gangsta207therevolution]

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

So who is gonna provide all of the rumor articles that have already been out for a while?

I'm not going to violate the no insider articles rule.
Meth personally came and laid that one out, and he generally lets SKA have free reign in here.
I ain't seen Holden in a year

.
70 million is too much IMO You have to cut down by 2012 off season.

Rollbacks should not be an option on existing contracts, but they need to be on all new contracts.
New max should start at 9 million with 10% raises for first new contract guys then after the first extention if you stay with the same team/ Bird rights its 10%  of the last salary you made 5% if you switch teams. But the second season it goes back to 10%
I like the amount of time for the contracts though, but I dont want them guaranteed for the full time.
2 years for other teams, 4 years for own team at max. it becomes a real decision.
I think you have to go to the HS rule again.
with a hard cap at 60 million you got to find a way to fit any development into the budget. You have to cut down by 2012 off season.
Amnesty clause is IMO for up to 2 players.
But one player can resigned, at a lower cap number.
So if Miami descides to "Amnesty Bosh" but they want to keep him then they would have first rights to negociate. But their negociation would essentually deduct the difference from his new salary from the cap. So he doesnt miss out on money, but the Heat get to claim that they pay him less. I don't know if that makes sense so read below.
So lets say he signs for 6 million he is scheduled to make 15.8 million next season. Their owner, Micky Arison would still have to pay him the difference.
You got to punish teams and their owners for attempting to load up before the new CBA.

the MLE has to go though.

 

[gangsta207therevolution]

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

So who is gonna provide all of the rumor articles that have already been out for a while?

I'm not going to violate the no insider articles rule.
Meth personally came and laid that one out, and he generally lets SKA have free reign in here.
I ain't seen Holden in a year

.
70 million is too much IMO You have to cut down by 2012 off season.

Rollbacks should not be an option on existing contracts, but they need to be on all new contracts.
New max should start at 9 million with 10% raises for first new contract guys then after the first extention if you stay with the same team/ Bird rights its 10%  of the last salary you made 5% if you switch teams. But the second season it goes back to 10%
I like the amount of time for the contracts though, but I dont want them guaranteed for the full time.
2 years for other teams, 4 years for own team at max. it becomes a real decision.
I think you have to go to the HS rule again.
with a hard cap at 60 million you got to find a way to fit any development into the budget. You have to cut down by 2012 off season.
Amnesty clause is IMO for up to 2 players.
But one player can resigned, at a lower cap number.
So if Miami descides to "Amnesty Bosh" but they want to keep him then they would have first rights to negociate. But their negociation would essentually deduct the difference from his new salary from the cap. So he doesnt miss out on money, but the Heat get to claim that they pay him less. I don't know if that makes sense so read below.
So lets say he signs for 6 million he is scheduled to make 15.8 million next season. Their owner, Micky Arison would still have to pay him the difference.
You got to punish teams and their owners for attempting to load up before the new CBA.

the MLE has to go though.

 

[duba169]

they are gonna see players go to Europe if they rollback salaries

bet

 

[duba169]

they are gonna see players go to Europe if they rollback salaries

bet

 

[pmatic]

I'd like to see the NBA allow HS players to enter the draft, but I think they'll want to expand it even longer.

Protects veterans' jobs, cuts scouting expenses and gives more time to properly evaluate a prospect.

 

[pmatic]

I'd like to see the NBA allow HS players to enter the draft, but I think they'll want to expand it even longer.

Protects veterans' jobs, cuts scouting expenses and gives more time to properly evaluate a prospect.

 

[gangsta207therevolution]

Originally Posted by DubA169

they are gonna see players go to Europe if they rollback salaries

bet

 Thats what the revised Amnesty I proposed was for.
Im fully expecting teams to pick a star player to use the loophole for, and an over paid scrub to just let go.
The next 5 years needed to be insured, and 70 million is too much, and teams being legit destroyed is not worth it.
Pmatic I proposed a long while ago that if a team wanted to take a guy out of HS, he could have his choice of going to college and collecting 15% of the slotted salary for his draft position ( but having to be a non scholarship guy), going to the NBDL and getting  10%, but being offically a pro. Or if the team felt he was ready, going to the "main squad"  and getting his full salary. But the team would have to approve it, and he would have had to have been drafted in the top 13. And they have to declare their situation before the draft.
IMO solved 2 issues with one soulution.
Not every college player needs to be paid, so pay the ones who got legit talent.
Aside from the NCAA never letting it fly, with a few tweaks could it work?