Yunel Escobar is the most skilled SS in the NL east

[Sam Darnold Heisman #8]

now hes the most skilled ss in the al east.

 

[jawnyquest]

hanley > reyes healthy > yunel > reyes not 100% > guzman > rollins

 

[madj55]

Originally Posted by jawnyquest

hanley > reyes healthy > yunel > reyes not 100% > guzman > rollins

Guzman isn't even the starting shortstop for us anymore, and I don't think in terms of skills he's ahead of Rollins anyway. 

 

[thetruth03]

i knew it was only a matter of time.. 

This is one of the dumbest trades in Atlanta history. Right up there w/ the  Mark Texierra trade. 

Trade a 27 year old approaching his prime for a 33 year old Gonzalez.. 

Yunel and Prado woulda been something nice to watch. SMH.. 

Escobar will be an all star next year. Guaranteed 

 

[proshares]

Nah man, they got back a couple good prospects and a good power hitting and contact SS for Escobar who kept failing w/RISP and AG is only owed $2.5 million next year so especially cheap.

Yunel won't be an All Star behind Andrus, Jeter and even Brignac. He's approaching his prime and getting much slower and isn't a great athlete to begin with.

 

[thetruth03]

^ you do realize that Andrus came up in the braves farm system right? Escobar is and always has been regarded as the better prospect..

Esco hit .300 17 hrs. and 75 RBI's last season.. and was the one of the most clutch hitters w/ RISP in the NL...

Jeter makes the all star team every year off of his name alone, you put escobar around that kind of talent and he's a household name.

AND in my opinion Esco is the clear cut best defensive shortstop in the majors.. Dumb trade for ATL..

Bobby Cox was mad over ONE PLAY from earlier this season. SMH

 

[dlo13]

Now he hits a Grand Slam for T.O...

 

[ooiron manoo]

AND in my opinion Esco is the clear cut best defensive shortstop in the majors

I would like you to unbiasedly and logically defend that claim.

I don't want to hear this type of response...

Talent wise, I agree it was a stupid trade.  I'm sure the Braves realize what they were giving up, however, it just shows you how bad Yunel's prima donna attitude was.  He lost respect in a laid back clubhouse full of veterans, and it seems Bobby Cox wanted his %*# out of the ATL asap.  I'm sure that contributed to his troubles at the plate, Yunel made his own bed.

He's a talented SS and ballplayer, but to call him the best of anything is absurd.

 

[thetruth03]

LMFAOOOOO you USC dudes stay posting the lamest .gifs its like the trojan signature.. What SS in the league has a better glove than escobar? Im soooo curious...

 

[thetruth03]

The All-Star Game is right around the corner, and while it's usually the big hitters that get the majority of bids to the Midsummer Classic, that doesn't mean the slick fielders should be ignored. With that in mind, here are the top defensive players at each position thus far in 2010, using Defensive Runs Saved, a stat we've developed at Baseball Info Solutions that measures how each player fares relative to the average fielder at their position. 

[*]

Pitcher -- Mark Buehrle, White Sox, +6 runs: Remember that between-the-legs flip on Opening Day? Well, Buehrle's defensive prowess is nothing new, and his greatest skill is controlling the running game. Since 2006, 60 percent (26 out of 43) of potential base stealers have failed against him, and 20 of those were erased via the pickoff.Honorable mention: Ricky Romero, Blue Jays, +6 

[*]

Catcher -- Miguel Olivo, Rockies, +9: He has thrown out 52 percent (17 of 33) of attempted base stealers this year, easily a career high for the nine-year veteran.Honorable mention: Yadier Molina, Cardinals, +6 

[*]

First Base -- Daric Barton, Athletics, +12: He’s played fewer than 300 games at first base in the majors but has 23 Runs Saved to his credit. Finally in the lineup everyday, Barton is comfortably pacing the league.Honorable mention: Justin Morneau, Twins, and Russell Branyan, Mariners, +8 

[*]

Second Base -- Chase Utley, Phillies, +15: Is there a more underrated superstar than Utley? He's been the best player on the Phillies for the past four years, and yet two of his teammates have won NL MVP awards. Utley has put up double-digit Runs Saved for the sixth straight season at a premium defensive position and leads all of baseball in Total Runs since 2005, his first full season.Honorable mention: Robinson Cano, Yankees, +12 

[*]

Third Base -- Ryan Zimmerman, Nationals, +12: Last season’s Fielding Bible Award winner and Web Gem champion is no surprise here. Interestingly, converted third basemen Chase Headley andJose Lopez are more than holding their own at the position, saving at least 10 runs each with their glove.Honorable mention: Jose Lopez, Mariners, +11, and Chase Headley, Padres, +10 

[*]

Shortstop -- Yunel Escobar, Braves, and Alexei Ramirez, White Sox, +11: Escobar isn’t really a surprise here, finishing with double digit Runs Saved in each of the past two seasons. Ramirez’s recent defense play has been a pleasant surprise for White Sox fans after saving just two runs last year in his first season at the position.Honorable mention: Alex Gonzalez, Blue Jays, +14 

[*]

Left field -- Carl Crawford, Rays, +10: This three-time Fielding Bible Award winner recently leapfrogged Colorado’s Seth Smith for the positional Runs Saved lead, and don't expect him to relinquish the spot. With defense comprising a large portion of his overall value, Crawford will be an interesting free agent to follow this winter.[*]

Center field -- Austin Jackson, Tigers, +14: Lost in the ninth inning of Armando Galarraga’s near-perfecto was Jackson's over-the-shoulder catch in the ninth inning. Those types of plays are par for the course for this rookie.Honorable mention: Marlon Byrd, Cubs, +12 

[*]

Right field -- Ichiro Suzuki, Mariners, +14: While his arm isn’t what it once was, Ichiro is still the best defensive right fielder in the game.Honorable mention: Ryan Ludwick, Cardinals, +8

 

[thetruth03]

Since most of you guys need stats to form your own opinion, there you go.. 

 I've been stating this for the past 2 seasons.. 
I'm confident in my own judgement as far as evaluating talent..  A week into Yunel being in the majors i said he's the best defensive SS in the game.. 

 dudes stay trying me on here.. i love it

 

[bigmike23]

you stop simping and cameback on here to defend your homer !#% comments?

 

[live boy d]

 

[ooiron manoo]

Is that the only defensive metric you are going to use

.

Using a fluff piece where the guy he was traded for has better numbers, yet is labeled "Honorable Mention"

Just know that last season when Yunel had a "career year" he didn't even top an injury plagued Rafael Furcal.  It's no wonder the Braves went hard after Raffy when he became a FA after the 2008 season.  His Zone Rating (Stats, Inc.) was 15th amongst all SS.  If you go by UZR (15th) and UZR/150 (15th) you will see that Escobar isn't the great SS you think he is.

I will eliminate the SS that just provide a better glove (ex. Izturis, Jack Wilson) than Yunel, I will just list the SS that are better complete players than Yunel:

-Troy Tulowitzki
-Alexei Ramirez
-Jimmy Rollins
- Rafael Furcal
- Elvis Andrus
- Alex Gonzales
- Derek Jeter (Yeah, I said Derek Jeter!).

Here's the link so you can see for yourself:

SS's better than bum +%# Yunel

It's like saying Matt Kemp is the best CF'er in the league because he makes a flashy play here and there. 

dudes stay trying me on here.. i love it

Stop gassing yourself.  Even when you are blatantly wrong you can't admit it.

Showing up to a gunfight with an empty clip

.

 

[mfr3shm]

I've only seen Alex Gonzalez for 4 games, but he is doesn't possess the cannon of an arm that Escobar has b/c Gonzalez's arm is sort of weak as he made two soft tosses to 1B which cost the Braves a couple of runs.

I will miss Escobar's game, but it was blown way out of proportion about his attitude just for this year. While last year he was being praised as the Braves MVP and over this year all of a sudden the media calls him a cancer to the team it was just that Bobby hated him even though Bobby will only be manager for this year. 
Freddy Gonzalez likely replacing Cox would've been more comfortable for Escobar as he was really close to Chino Cadahia. The Braves didn't even trade Rafael Furcal when he was arrested for DUI and he remained in a Braves uniform while Escobar just being himself was traded. 

Escobar will be an All Star but behind Jeter because of the fans voting system. Escobar is better than Elvis Andrus who doesn't hit any homeruns but they have similar defense. 

 

[osh kosh bosh]

This thread is pure gold.


I won't drudge anything back up, Yunel is a good shortstop, I likem AA taking a risk on him, I really don't like that we gave up Tim Collins but hey, Hanley is a once in a generation type talent and the Marlins would not even consider trading him for really almost anyone.

 

[mfr3shm]

Tim Collins made his debut in AA and struck out 5 in two innings.

Blue Jays got a bum in return in Jo Jo Reyes worst pitcher Braves had, but Bobby Cox liked him smh.

 

[thetruth03]

 This dude Iron Man
I make the statement that he's the best defensive shortstop in the league because I'm an avid fan of the game.. I watch and follow every team.. I can use my own eyes to judge talent at that level.. I dont need zone ratings and such to do so.. Yet just for the doubters i posted an article from mlb.com saying Yunel is the best in the MLB defensively at his position.. I asked the question who's better in the field than him, and you gave no response.. You act like because he's flashy that means i think he's the best 

 You've showed me over the years that evaluated talent isnt one of your strengths.

Atlanta didn't want Furcal to play SS in 2008 when they were pursing him, they wanted him to play 2nd base.. Yunel had SS sewed up because he has a better glove.. 

And are you seriously calling Escobar's 1st full season in the Bigs a "career year" 

 thats just a preview of whats to come.. 

A short stop that can potentially hit 25+ HR's 90+ RBI's and bat over .300 + being the best defensive shortstop in the league is why i'd take him over any other SS in the league. I think some of yall are forgetting about the importance of having a great defensive shortstop. 

And come on dude.. Elvis Andrus is NOT better than Escobar. 

There's really no point in continuing to argue, im not changing my opinion and neither are you.. I'll bump this thread in 2 years and have a field day w/ yall. OKbye

 

[uter zorker]

Originally Posted by thetruth03

 This dude Iron Man
I make the statement that he's the best defensive shortstop in the league because I'm an avid fan of the game.. I watch and follow every team.. I can use my own eyes to judge talent at that level.. I dont need zone ratings and such to do so.. Yet just for the doubters i posted an article from mlb.com saying Yunel is the best in the MLB defensively at his position.. I asked the question who's better in the field than him, and you gave no response.. You act like because he's flashy that means i think he's the best 

 You've showed me over the years that evaluated talent isnt one of your strengths.

Atlanta didn't want Furcal to play SS in 2008 when they were pursing him, they wanted him to play 2nd base.. Yunel had SS sewed up because he has a better glove.. 

And are you seriously calling Escobar's 1st full season in the Bigs a "career year" 

 thats just a preview of whats to come.. 

A short stop that can potentially hit 25+ HR's 90+ RBI's and bat over .300 + being the best defensive shortstop in the league is why i'd take him over any other SS in the league. I think some of yall are forgetting about the importance of having a great defensive shortstop. 

And come on dude.. Elvis Andrus is NOT better than Escobar. 

There's really no point in continuing to argue, im not changing my opinion and neither are you.. I'll bump this thread in 2 years and have a field day w/ yall. OKbye

You gotta remember that most of these dudes follow the "criteria" of evaluating talent that ESPN/other publications have put out there instead of realizing nothing will ever go against the all mighty eye...they follow it the way they've been told too, instead of learning from people who do it day in and day out as their job

Just knowing the dumb trades the Braves have made in the past and knowing AA in Toronto seems to be a pretty crafty/knowledgeable kid leads me to believe the Jays got the better part of this deal...and it's crazy that people in here are arguing about his defensive ability, let alone not realizing its probably the most important position on the field

Remembering that you've said you play a bit of baseball leads me to believe you know what you're talkin about on this one...so I'll believe it, and if I was a Jays fan I'd be ecstatic to have gotten this kid...there's also the possiblity that maybe this will push him and make him hungrier

 

[scuse7]

Sure we can agree that he might be the best defensive shortstop in the league...

But he'll never be the best shortstop in the league.

 

[proshares]

So just because some of us disagree with Truth on his view of Escobar, we're just being sheep following ESPN/other publications. Escobar is a great defensive SS but his offensive struggles this season outweighed that. Like I said before, he's become extremely slow on the base paths and it's pretty obvious the clubhouse wasn't a fan of him. They gave Gonzalez a standing ovation, that should tell you something. Gonzalez has been hitting well this year with RISP and driving in runs while slugging at a career mark. Yunel hasn't been hitting well and this team wants to win this year. Lineup becomes more complete. Yunel was looking like a right handed Cano from a few years ago with terrible pitch recognition. Maybe he does put it together in Toronto, I mean he has been good since being traded (albeit against one of the worst pitching staffs/bullpens in the majors) and that could be a nice core with Wallace, Wells and Toronto's staff. Yunel was regarded as the better prospect over Elvis when Elvis was 18-19 and Yunel was a polished 24 year old. Andrus will be an All-Star fixture in the AL for the next 10 years or so. He's getting better defensively, getting better at making straight on contact with the ball and learned to read pitchers' moves better. But then again, I just got this all from ESPN apparently.

 

[juan baller]

Originally Posted by Proshares

So just because some of us disagree with Truth on his view of Escobar, we're just being sheep following ESPN/other publications. Escobar is a great defensive SS but his offensive struggles this season outweighed that. Like I said before, he's become extremely slow on the base paths and it's pretty obvious the clubhouse wasn't a fan of him. They gave Gonzalez a standing ovation, that should tell you something. Gonzalez has been hitting well this year with RISP and driving in runs while slugging at a career mark. Yunel hasn't been hitting well and this team wants to win this year. Lineup becomes more complete. Yunel was looking like a right handed Cano from a few years ago with terrible pitch recognition. Maybe he does put it together in Toronto, I mean he has been good since being traded (albeit against one of the worst pitching staffs/bullpens in the majors) and that could be a nice core with Wallace, Wells and Toronto's staff. Yunel was regarded as the better prospect over Elvis when Elvis was 18-19 and Yunel was a polished 24 year old. Andrus will be an All-Star fixture in the AL for the next 10 years or so. He's getting better defensively, getting better at making straight on contact with the ball and learned to read pitchers' moves better. But then again, I just got this all from ESPN apparently.

Co-sign. Escobar needs to use that reaction time he flashes in the field to get out of the batter's box better if he's gonna keep hitting >50% groundballs. How does Mike Napoli, a right-handed flyball hitting catcher who didn't get enough ABs to qualify for the batting title, leg out more infield hitter than Escobar last year?

Nothing wrong with being a right-handed groundball hitter, but you gotta beat out better than 4% of infield grounders. Escobar should watch Jeter... not in the field, of course. But consistently beating out 9% of infield grounders has allowed Jeter to hit for a .315 career average despite being a right-handed batter that hits nearly 60% groundballs.