#1 Of The Post Jordan Era: Shaq or Duncun

[blazinbama]

Originally Posted by allen3xis

Shaq's impact went WAYYYYY beyond any numbers.

Hell yeah. It's Shaq by far. Some of yall must have never seen him actually play in his prime. He could have gone for 40-50 every time out. I meanthey had to change rules for this dude.

 

[thejrob]

Kobe

HATE ON

 

[dearwinter219]

DCAllAmerican wrote:

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DearWinter219 wrote:

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EDIT: and one more thing.... WHY do ppl act like Kobe was Shaq's sidekick? They were the NBA equivilent to Outkast -- a PURE duo. They fed off of eachother equally, just as both have suffered equally in the absense of a similar player. Like I said, look at the numbers. Kobe put up the same numbers ALL SEASON that D-wade put up in hi Finals MVP series. How can you HONESTLY call the YOUNG Kobe a tag-along Champ when he was doing the same stuff, at the same age as D-Wade?

Not sidekicks but he wasn't the #1 option. There is NO arguing that

No arguing that... but I just hate how people dismiss Kobe's contribution altogether ONLY because Shaq has had more success since the split. Theyfail to realize that Shaq's dominance was at least partly due to the presence of an equally unstoppable perimeter player. From Penny to Kobe to D-Wade,Shaq's always had help. I NEVER said Kobe did the carrying during the chip years either. He was young and still budding, but he put in enough work todeserve 50% of the credit.

 

[srvballer]

Man this is a close one. I'm taking Shaq by a hair but if either of them get their 5th ring the edge goes to them...

 

[jbone2308]

Originally Posted by DearWinter219

Kobe:

3 rings, MVP, numerous first team nods, first steam defender, single best player in the league all around, COMPARABLE to MJ, 81 points, 40-point game streak, most 3s in a game, and still < 30 years old

along for the ride?

Year	Team	G	GS	MPG	FG%	3P%	FT%	OFF	DEF	RPG	APG	SPG	BPG	TO	PF	PPG
96-97	LAL	71	6	15.5	0.417	0.375	0.819	0.7	1.2	1.9	1.3	0.7	0.3	1.58	1.40	7.6
97-98	LAL	79	1	26.0	0.428	0.341	0.794	1.0	2.1	3.1	2.5	0.9	0.5	1.99	2.30	15.4
98-99	LAL	50	50	37.9	0.465	0.267	0.839	1.1	4.2	5.3	3.8	1.4	1.0	3.14	3.10	19.9
99-00	LAL	66	62	38.2	0.468	0.319	0.821	1.6	4.7	6.3	4.9	1.6	0.9	2.76	3.30	22.5
00-01	LAL	68	68	40.9	0.464	0.305	0.853	1.5	4.3	5.9	5.0	1.7	0.6	3.24	3.30	28.5
01-02	LAL	80	80	38.3	0.469	0.250	0.829	1.4	4.1	5.5	5.5	1.5	0.4	2.79	2.90	25.2
02-03	LAL	82	82	41.5	0.451	0.383	0.843	1.3	5.6	6.9	5.9	2.2	0.8	3.51	2.70	30.0
03-04	LAL	65	64	37.6	0.438	0.327	0.852	1.6	3.9	5.5	5.1	1.7	0.4	2.63	2.70	24.0
04-05	LAL	66	66	40.7	0.433	0.339	0.816	1.4	4.5	5.9	6.0	1.3	0.8	4.09	2.60	27.6
05-06	LAL	80	80	41.0	0.450	0.347	0.850	0.9	4.4	5.3	4.5	1.8	0.4	3.13	2.90	35.4

Those are "riding" numbers? I guess... Peep the playoff statline on D-Wade for the 05-06 season

05-06

MIA

23

23

41.7

0.497

0.378

0.808

1.2

4.7

5.9

5.7

2.2

1.1

3.91

3.10

28.4

Wade does 28-6-6 an gets finals MVP but Kobe does 29-6-5 (in '01) and gets to "ride with Shaq" to the ring... OK

It's Duncan, but Kobe is close.

Thank you for posting these numbers.

 

[allen3xis]

you chose to bold his best FG% numbers during that run...


coincidentally that is when Shaq was at his best..

 

[ultrasur1]

duncan

 

[bf hoodrich]

Tim Duncan

 

[babyface34]

Shaq. Guys always have to be aware of where that man is, even though you can't miss him. My chances of thinking twice before taking it to the rack againstTHE DIESEL are much greater than Duncan. He's a beast, no matter how old he is. Like someone said earlier, Shaq's impact goes beyond the stats.

 

[blackmagnus514]

Shaq.

 

[jsindaa]

Man some of you guys are IDIOTS! If we are going to have this discussion you have to include Kobe. Hate, try to dismiss him, but in the end he HAS to beincluded. Shaq doesn't have 3 of those rings if it isn't for Kobe, to try and suggest otherwise is ludicrous. Especially given the criteria....which heeasily fits for all of them. What LOGICAL argument does one have for him not to be in this discussion? Seriously. Stop hating. Duncan is the only player thathas been more consistent. How you could say someone has the most skill but not ability is beyond me...because it's the same thing. But to answer yourquestion it's Duncan

 

[nychiphophippo]

Duncan since jordan retired

Overall, i can't say cuz i wasn't old enough to really analyze ball like that

 

[mco85]

To me its shaq because winning three in a row is more impressive than 4 in ten years. But I think if Kobe gets a couple more rings than you can say he was thebest of the era.

 

[japanair21]

I fail to see how it isn't Shaq, one of the most dominant players of ALL-TIME. He's faced them all, in a time where he played with the greats of thepast and the stars to come.

If you want to use Kobe's #'s as a defense, then here you go.

Career		FG		3PT		FT		Rebounds		Misc
Year	Team	G	Min	M	A	Pct		M	A	Pct		M	A	Pct		Off	Def	Tot		Ast	TO	Stl	Blk	PF	PPG
1992-93	ORL	81	37:53	9.1	16.1	56.2		0.0	0.0	0.0		5.3	8.9	59.2		4.2	9.6	13.9		1.9	3.8	0.7	3.5	4.0	23.4
1993-94	ORL	81	39:47	11.8	19.6	59.9		0.0	0.0	0.0		5.8	10.5	55.4		4.7	8.5	13.2		2.4	2.7	0.9	2.9	3.5	29.4
1994-95	ORL	79	37:00	11.8	20.2	58.3		0.0	0.1	0.0		5.8	10.8	53.3		4.2	7.3	11.4		2.7	2.6	0.9	2.4	3.3	29.3
1995-96	ORL	54	36:00	11.0	19.1	57.3		0.0	0.0	50.0		4.6	9.5	48.7		3.4	7.7	11.0		2.9	2.9	0.6	2.1	3.6	26.6
1996-97	LAL	51	38:06	10.8	19.4	55.7		0.0	0.1	0.0		4.6	9.4	48.4		3.8	8.7	12.6		3.1	2.9	0.9	2.9	3.5	26.2
1997-98	LAL	60	36:17	11.2	19.1	58.4		0.0	0.0	0.0		6.0	11.4	52.7		3.5	7.9	11.4		2.4	2.9	0.7	2.4	3.2	28.3
1998-99	LAL	49	34:47	10.4	18.1	57.6		0.0	0.0	0.0		5.5	10.2	54.0		3.8	6.9	10.7		2.3	2.5	0.7	1.7	3.2	26.3
1999-00	LAL	79	40:00	12.1	21.1	57.4		0.0	0.0	0.0		5.5	10.4	52.4		4.3	9.4	13.7		3.8	2.8	0.5	3.0	3.2	29.7
2000-01	LAL	74	39:30	11.0	19.2	57.2		0.0	0.0	0.0		6.7	13.1	51.3		3.9	8.8	12.7		3.7	3.0	0.6	2.8	3.5	28.7
2001-02	LAL	67	36:06	10.6	18.3	57.9		0.0	0.0	0.0		5.9	10.7	55.5		3.5	7.2	10.7		3.0	2.6	0.6	2.0	3.0	27.2
2002-03	LAL	67	37:47	10.4	18.1	57.4		0.0	0.0	0.0		6.7	10.8	62.2		3.9	7.2	11.1		3.1	2.9	0.6	2.4	3.4	27.5
2003-04	LAL	67	36:47	8.3	14.2	58.4		0.0	0.0	0.0		4.9	10.1	49.0		3.7	7.8	11.5		2.9	2.9	0.5	2.5	3.4	21.5
2004-05	MIA	73	34:06	9.0	15.0	60.1		0.0	0.0	0.0		4.8	10.5	46.1		3.5	7.0	10.4		2.7	2.8	0.5	2.3	3.6	22.9
2005-06	MIA	59	30:36	8.1	13.6	60.0		0.0	0.0	0.0		3.8	8.0	46.9		2.9	6.3	9.2		1.9	2.9	0.4	1.8	3.9	20.0
2006-07	MIA	40	28:23	7.1	12.0	59.1		0.0	0.0	0.0		3.1	7.4	42.2		2.4	5.0	7.4		2.0	2.4	0.2	1.4	3.5	17.3
2007-08	MIA	33	28:36	5.8	10.0	58.1		0.0	0.0	0.0		2.7	5.4	49.4		3.0	4.8	7.8		1.4	3.0	0.6	1.6	4.1	14.2
2007-08	PHO	28	28:41	5.0	8.2	61.1		0.0	0.0	0.0		2.9	5.7	51.3		2.4	8.2	10.6		1.7	3.0	0.5	1.2	3.4	12.9
Career	1042	36:12	10.0	17.2	58.1		0.0	0.0	5.0		5.2	10.0	52.4		3.7	7.7	11.5		2.7	2.9	0.6	2.4	3.5	25.2

It's not that I hate Kobe, I like Kobe, he's a great player, but Snaq is the most dominant player in a LONG time. And as others have said, it'sbeyond the numbers. Not only does he dominate, but he's good with the ball, the only flaw he's had is his FT%, but a lot of greats have struggled withthat.

 

[darthska]

Shaq only has 1 ring since Jordan retired (the post-Jordan era); Duncan has 2 rings and a Finals MVP.

I know what you meant.

Looking at their careers overall since Jordan retired in '98 (the post-'BULLS Jordan' era):

CHAMPIONSHIPS
- SHAQ: 4
- DUNCAN: 4


FINALS APPEARANCES
- SHAQ: 5 (going 4-1)
- DUNCAN: 4 (going 4-0)

FINALS MVPs
- SHAQ: 3
- DUNCAN: 3

REGULAR SEASON MVPs
- SHAQ: 1
- DUNCAN: 2

ALL NBA SELECTIONS:
- SHAQ: 7 First Team selections, 1 Second Team selection ('98-'99; Mourning was selected as the All NBA First Team center) NOTE: was not selected tothe First, Second, or Third team in '06'07 (Amare was First Team, Yao was Second Team, Dwight was Third Team)
- DUNCAN: 8 First Team selections, 1 Second Team selection ('05-'06; LeBron and Dirk were selected as the All NBA First Team forwards)

ALL DEFENSIVE TEAM SELECTIONS:
- SHAQ: ZERO First Team selections, 3 Second Team selections
- DUNCAN: 7 First Team selections, 2 Second Team selections (in '03-'04, Artest + Garnett were the forwards, and in '05-'06, Artest + Kirilenkowere the forwards)



For me? Duncan

 

[1d]

I say shaq. Post Jordan 'd still give Shaq the edge.

For his career it's not that close

Shaq has went to 6 finals and won 4 rings. He played against very good centers in their PRIME during his career. He's played MJ's bulls during their title runs. I still see shaq as the better player. The only real competition Duncan has played against is Shaq and the aging superstars of the 90s.

but Duncan has always been the undisputed best player on his team. He's still in his early-30s and has a chance to win 2-3 more titles.
Naw in 98 Robinson was the best player on the Spurs

 

[blackmamba08]

Even thought i dislike him, and Kobe is my favorite player i have to go with Duncan.

 

[grittyman20]

Duncan...so consistent, ultimate team player, and can do it all on the floor.

 

[mjkidd2345]

Duncan

 

[darthska]

About the Kobe answers: that's one major reason why people can't stand freaking Kobe fans.

The question was between Duncan and Shaq, and y'all can't just answer the dang question.

"Best since the post-Bulls championships: Duncan or Shaq?"
"Kobe. Sorry, but I have to vote for him."

"Best leftie in the game?"
"Kobe. Did you SEE that left-handed 3 he hit a couple years ago?!

!"

"3 seconds left: iso for Paul or LeBron?"
"Kobe. Every time."

"Game 7: Santana or Beckett?"
"Kobe. Dude can PITCH! Y'all just don't know."

"KFC or Popeyes?"
"Kobe. Wherever he's eating, that's my choice."

For real, it's 9 kinds of annoying.

And don't even come at me with this 'You're just being a hater' crap, because I have said numerous times this season that I loved what Kobe didthis past season, and I'm glad for him if the rumors are true about him getting the MVP. So save that 'You're just hating on Kobe' crap forsomeone else, because I'm not even talking about Kobe.

I'm talking about his fans.

Not him.

His fans.

 

[japanair21]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

About the Kobe answers: that's one major reason why people can't stand freaking Kobe fans.

The question was between Duncan and Shaq, and y'all can't just answer the dang question.

"Best since the post-Bulls championships: Duncan or Shaq?"
"Kobe. Sorry, but I have to vote for him."

"Best leftie in the game?"
"Kobe. Did you SEE that left-handed 3 he hit a couple years ago?!

!"

"3 seconds left: iso for Paul or LeBron?"
"Kobe. Every time."

"Game 7: Santana or Beckett?"
"Kobe. Dude can PITCH! Y'all just don't know."

"KFC or Popeyes?"
"Kobe. Wherever he's eating, that's my choice."

For real, it's 9 kinds of annoying.

And don't even come at me with this 'You're just being a hater' crap, because I have said numerous times this season that I loved what Kobe did this past season, and I'm glad for him if the rumors are true about him getting the MVP. So save that 'You're just hating on Kobe' crap for someone else, because I'm not even talking about Kobe.

I'm talking about his fans.

Not him.

His fans.

 

[southzeztpdot]

Its obviously Kobe. Ninjas dont want to name him since him and MJ play the same position. Get of MJs shaft.

 

[trueblack88]

I'd go with Shaq. Individually, his presence has meant more and he's had a larger impact on the games he's played in than Duncan. Shaq has alsotaken on the role of being the 'face' of basketball in a much larger part than Duncan, naturally, due to his personality...

 

[grittyman20]

Its obviously Kobe. Ninjas dont want to name him since him and MJ play the same position. Get of MJs shaft.
@ this reply coming RIGHT after Ska's post

 

[japanair21]

Originally Posted by grittyman20

Its obviously Kobe. Ninjas dont want to name him since him and MJ play the same position. Get of MJs shaft.

@ this reply coming RIGHT after Ska's post

Congratulations on 10k posts.