"A Serious Recession Now Appears All But Assured." Thanks Bush!!

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[h1]Stocks Slump As Signs Point To Harder Times[/h1][h2]Key Indicators Suggest Deep Recession[/h2]
Businesses cut prices at a record rate and builders started fewer new homes last month than anytime on record, according to new government data, as theoutlook for the economy continues to dim.

The data helped spur another terrible day for the stock market, as did a projection of more hard times ahead by leaders of the Federal Reserve. A serious recession now appears all butassured.

The stock market fell another 5 percent, as measured by the Dow Jones industrial average, which closed below 8,000 for the first time in this bear market.New-home starts in October were the lowest since at least 1959, when the government began keeping data. The consumer priceindex plummeted by the most since that series of monthly data was started in 1947, as the economy slowed so abruptly that companies had to slash prices to sellproducts.

And Federal Reserve leaders released projections indicating they expect the economy to worsen significantly in the coming year. The most pessimistic of 17Fed officials expects joblessness to rise to 8 percent at the end of 2009, which would be the highest in a quarter-century.

"We're in the deep portion of the economic trough," said Richard Yamarone, chief economist of Argus Research, explaining yesterday'smarket sell-off. "So you have to expect a certain degree of negative sentiment, you almost have to expect doom and gloom at this point."

The consumer price index, a broad measure of inflation facing U.S. households, fell 1 percent in October, driven by an 8.6 percent decline in the price ofenergy. But the falling prices were considerably broader than that; excluding food and energy, which are volatile, prices fell 0.1 percent, the first monthlydecline in that "core" price index since 1982.

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Clothing prices fell 1 percent, for example, and the price of used cars and trucks was off 2.4 percent. More broadly, economists said, businesses are losingany ability to set prices because demand for their goods has dried up.

"It's not simply that they don't have pricing power," said Joel Naroff, president of Naroff Economic Advisors. "It's that theycan't sell what they have. If you have any inventory, you have to make sure it moves, and that means cutting prices."

The silver lining of the negative inflation numbers is that dropping prices make it easier for people -- at least those who do not lose their jobs in thedownturn -- to afford the goods and services they buy.

Similarly, weak construction numbers -- housing starts fell 4.5 percent and new building permits issued fell 12 percent in October, the Commerce Department said -- also contain benefitsfor the economy in the longer run. The fewer new homes built, the sooner the economy can work through an oversupply of housing.

Just this summer, many Fed officials and other economists viewed spiking inflation as among their foremost concerns. That appears to have changed. Besidesraising their expectations for unemployment, the 17 top Fed leaders (12 regional bank presidents and five serving governors) cut their predictions of inflationin 2009.

Minutes released yesterday of the late-October meeting of the Fed's policymaking committee gave strong signals that the central bank could cut interestrates again at its December meeting, following two rate cuts in October. Rate cuts indicate greater concern about a slowing economy than about the risk ofhigher prices.

The policymaking committee "agreed that it would take whatever steps were necessary to support the recovery of the economy," according to theminutes.

The dropping prices even raise the possibility of deflation, or a sustained fall in price levels that can create a dangerous self-reinforcing cycle,although economists generally think it unlikely the United States will enter such a cycle.

"There is a risk out there" of deflation, Federal Reserve vice chairman Donald Kohn said in a conference yesterday at the Cato Institute. "But it's still small in mymind."

There was no single reason for yesterday's stock market decline, which accelerated in the final hour of the trading day. Turmoil in the commercial realestate market deepened as securities backed by loans on commercial properties such as office buildings fell in value. Shares of financial companies, especiallyCitigroup, and real estate investment trusts fellsharply.

But investors were also spooked by the Fed's weak projections and a general sense of anxiety.

"It's a tough environment, you've got layoffs, you've got bad news, people are worried about banks," said Andrew Brooks, head equity trader at T. Rowe Price. "It's a nervous, anxiousmarket."

Investors sold off corporate bonds with lower credit ratings, concerned that a rash of retailers, manufacturers and other companies will close their doorsand default on their debt in the coming months.

Moody's has been predicting a sharp rise infailures among firms that have lower-rated -- or "junk" -- credit ratings. In a report last week, it predicted a "deep and protracted"recession would force more than one in 10 of these companies to go under. The majority of U.S. firms have these credit ratings.

The nerves in the bond markets are making it prohibitively expensive for many companies to raise money. And without a healthy bond market, a swath ofeconomic activity is eliminated. Firms stop borrowing to buy construction equipment to put up buildings, acquire land for expanding restaurant chains or raisemoney to get through a cash crunch.

Because corporate junk bonds are more risky to own, investors often demand a higher yield to buy them. Yesterday, these yields, which move in the oppositedirection of bond prices, rose above 20 percent for the first time since 1990.

The squeeze on companies eventually will cause some of them to file for bankruptcy protection. On Monday, Moody's reported that the number of companiesin danger of running out of cash reached the highest level since 2002.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/19/AR2008111900943.html?hpid=topnewshttp://www.washingtonpost...1900943.html?hpid=topnews

Now imagine how high unemployment will climb if the Big 3 fail and start laying off workers, think of the various GM/FORD dealers & plants around thecountry that will close. We already have Citigroup announcing their laying off 53K people, we could see unemployment at the highest its been since The Carteradministration. I pray that this doesn't turn into a deep recession.
 
This is funny cuz the cats that was knocking this type of talk a few months ago are no where to be found when these threads come up now
 
y do people keep posting news about the stock martket. we all know the economy is bad and its going to get worse..
 
DAYTONA 5000 wrote:
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@ the Fed being "deeply concerned"
only thing they are concerned about is their bottom line
Exactly, what's troubling is this is all a charade to keep people in the dark from what is really going on.
 
wow really hmmm


i guess michigan (auto industry) hasnt been in a "serious" recession for the last few years (hence my layoff)


isnt a recession a recession regardless of severity?
 
Originally Posted by Rightguard

y do people keep posting news about the stock martket. we all know the economy is bad and its going to get worse..
Do you know why the economy is in the toilet? Hmmm?

Originally Posted by FIRST B0RN

DAYTONA 5000 wrote:
laugh.gif
@ the Fed being "deeply concerned"
only thing they are concerned about is their bottom line
Exactly, what's troubling is this is all a charade to keep people in the dark from what is really going on.



I'm saying
smh.gif
. This reminds me of this line Ol' Dirty Bastard said
"Come take a sip from the cup of death/ and while you're shaking my right hand/ I'll stab you with the left"
which is exactly what these guys are doing.
 
Originally Posted by PrurientSole

- reads "Thanks Bush!"

- realizes that OP has no idea what he's talking about

- exits thread
Ohhh your one of those "Its Clinton's fault" people... typical
laugh.gif


So when is the war going to begin as it will help restore the economy?
laugh.gif
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yupe thats exactly what happens when there's domestic and global turmoil..We don't need anymore wars now though unless provoked, one country can't sustain 3 ongoing wars and a slumping economy.
 
Originally Posted by NostrandAve68

Originally Posted by PrurientSole

- reads "Thanks Bush!"

- realizes that OP has no idea what he's talking about

- exits thread
Ohhh your one of those "Its Clinton's fault" people... typical
laugh.gif
I like how you assume things. Cute.

I don't blame Clinton. He had a hand in it, but damn near every politician who's set foot in DC over the past decade is complicit in one form oranother.

But please, enlighten me as to why blaming only Bush and the Republicans makes sense, outside of the fact that it's become the chic thing to do.

Feel free to use as many emoticons as you'd like.
 
So because the Democrats pushed through legislation that mandated that banks give roughly 20% of their loans to people who are "underqualified", andthen the piper came to call while Bush was in office, it is George's fault?
Makes alot of sense i guess....
 
Originally Posted by PrurientSole

I like how you assume things. Cute.

I don't blame Clinton. He had a hand in it, but damn near every politician who's set foot in DC over the past decade is complicit in one form or another. (Obama will most likely be no different)

But please, enlighten me as to why blaming only Bush and the Republicans makes sense, outside of the fact that it's become the chic thing to do.

Feel free to use as many emoticons as you'd like.

I'd like to hear your answer also
 
We've been in a recession since the start of the year. (Federal Reserve having emergency meetings to cut the funds rate)
 
cmon guys.

bush was a terrible president but he wasnt the REAL force to blame.

Mortgage Backed Securities and idiot firms who did NOT diversify
Ignorant Americans (in regards to buying million dollar homes when earning only 5 digits - "mortgages are free money!")
 
Originally Posted by PrurientSole

Originally Posted by NostrandAve68

Originally Posted by PrurientSole

- reads "Thanks Bush!"

- realizes that OP has no idea what he's talking about

- exits thread
Ohhh your one of those "Its Clinton's fault" people... typical
laugh.gif
I like how you assume things. Cute.

I don't blame Clinton. He had a hand in it, but damn near every politician who's set foot in DC over the past decade is complicit in one form or another.

But please, enlighten me as to why blaming only Bush and the Republicans makes sense, outside of the fact that it's become the chic thing to do.

Feel free to use as many emoticons as you'd like.
The whole cause of the financial crisis is due to lax oversight & deregulation, blame can be shared all around on both parties, wasn'tblaming Bush in particular. Clinton's revision of the Community Reinvestment Act in hindsight turned out to be a bad decision but im sure the billwasn't revised to encourage predatory lending. Plus another big cause of the financial crisis is American's living beyond their means thats why thecredit industry is next to go so we can blame unqualified people signing up for loans but when everybody else is living beyond their means why would they bediscouraged to decline huge loans. The Thanks Bush was a snarky jab at his presidency. Lets not forget that our economy is also dragging because of a pointless& costly war in Iraq.
 
Originally Posted by DAYTONA 5000

Originally Posted by 3thaman

Bush is the devil.
Bush is/was a dojer. International Bankers are the devil.


^Truth right there. Write it down on a note and put it on your fridge.
I'm not even mad at Bush. Really, he's just a scapegoat for the real evil doers who calculated and planned this whole crash. Money isn'tevaporating into thin air. It's all going into somebody's pocket at the end of the day. Those somebody's are the international bankers who own andoperate the Federal Reserve. wake up.
 
Originally Posted by bkzkurse

cmon guys.

bush was a terrible president but he wasnt the REAL force to blame.

Mortgage Backed Securities and idiot firms who did NOT diversify
Ignorant Americans (in regards to buying million dollar homes when earning only 5 digits - "mortgages are free money!")
QFT.

ALL politicians are crooks, as are most corporate CEO's.

Investors and banks are the real idiots as we speak.

Shut it down.
 
laugh.gif

I still remember about 9-12 months ago when myself and some others were saying that the real econ data and our overall financial state meant that we wereentering a recession and it would get worse.
We were laughed at and always got "..but..but...the (cooked) government numbers say everything is fine...you don't know what you're talkingabout..."

According to the feds its as easy as one day "everything being fine; strong economy" and the next day we're in a "serious recession".
 
Originally Posted by DAYTONA 5000

Originally Posted by 3thaman

Bush is the devil.
Bush is/was a dojer. International Bankers are the devil.
Daytona? You sir are so right that you don't even know what you said and how true it is. Hit the nail pretty much on the head.
 
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