Air Jordan 13 Retro Ray Allen PE (boston home)

[freeze]

ehh skip their return policy. just holla at paypal. it's illegal to sell fakes in the US. sure their company is in asia, but they used an america company to ship it. ems become usps once it crosses the border. so a foreign company used domestic resources to transport counterfeit materials. thats federal. just use the real pics posted here for paypal, you'll get your cheese back.

 

[frijo sneaker]

Originally Posted by 160jordansdeep

going to stock these 
but F it i really wanted these joints 

i am going to wear them 

To the first person to actually wear these joints!

 

[generationz]

I have a buddy who works at a Nike outlet and someone tried returning fakes, so when he scanned the barcode on the box it didn't work.

Some of you guys who ordered from overseas should check with your local nike town or nike outlet to see if they can confirm the authenticity of the kicks. Via the box or however else they can.

Just a thought

 

[dankenstien88]

Originally Posted by d1ner0

crooked jumpman holo


seems like they just glued this dam thing together and then sent to me after i filed my paypal claim



\





on to the suede





some fake neon stitching behind the insole not sure why but the authentic pair from boston i got got white stitching



some plastic material comeing of the faca carbon fiber on the sole




notice the back of the shoes doesn't it seem disproportional to you the shape of the shoes



tag looks suspect when i compared it to the boston pair it was more bold this one is dull

Wow... just wow.  Thanks for the pics. I hope you get your money back without too much hassle. 

 

[hubbard35]

Just filed a dispute, got mines from VMVinc and once I opened the box I wanted to slit my throat. *+++$+! glue marks and bottom of the right shoe is worn out. The suede is dirty and dengy %*% hole.

 

[frenchblue23]

Originally Posted by zapatohead408

I know it's time to stop buying recent Jordans when fakes are able to pass as authentic or B Grades.

How times have changed so much 

 

[spoonmanofthehour]

Originally Posted by FrenchBlue23

Originally Posted by zapatohead408

I know it's time to stop buying recent Jordans when fakes are able to pass as authentic or B Grades.

How times have changed so much 

this right here.  aside from the banned 1's, i'm done with buying jordan retros.  fakes and authentics are neck and neck now.  jordan brand is a joke. 

 

[memphissfinest]

I GUESS MY BOY BIGSLIM773 WAS RIGHT WHEN HE STATED PAGES BACK THAT THERE WERE REALLY ONLY 504 PAIRS TOTAL.

THE REST WERE FAKES.

 

[ozzie sosa]

At the end of the day, It's Jordan Brand's loss.

I know they're reading this thread thinking..."look how much more money we would've made had we made these just a bit more accessible"
They prob don't care about employees stealing B-grades of the floor, but they DO CARE about the money that could've potentially been theirs.

 

[weatherman]

Jeez some of these pairs look so rough

I remember reading that one way to identify these "AAA" fake 13's is by the length the white traction pods on the soles stick out... apparently the fakes stick out much higher... any truth to this? They do seem higher on some pairs..

 

[moneymike88]

Originally Posted by 160jordansdeep

Originally Posted by DownyBoy

why feel sorry for these kids? they knew what they were getting into. suckers are born everyday.

because that could have been me
besides thats alot of money to spent a get nothing for it

I'm dying to see what the stitching under your insole looks like

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

Thanks to 

Josh311, he posted this on the Concord XI thread

Interesting read here...........

Sorry if this has been posted.

This is from http://www.sneakerfreaker.com/

SO WHICH ONE IS WHICH?

FAKE - by definition means not authentic or genuine.  Fake product is the term used for the illegal copying and manufacturing of name-brand products.  In also goes by the other names like imitation, replicas, knockoffs or bootleg. BOOTLEGGING is to produce, reproduce and distribute without authorization or license.  COUNTERFEIT is an imitation with intent of fraudulently passing it off as genuine. In essence Fake is a poor DUPLICATE of the genuine product. 

For example, a Fake Jordan IV starts by obtaining an authentic Jordan IV (normally smuggled out from the original factory) to reverse engineer, make a mould and use inferior direct and indirect materials in the build.  If you reproduce more Fake Jordan IV for distribution then you are BOOTLEGGING.  If you intend to pass your FAKE Jordan IV as genuine, then you are COUNTERFEITING.

VARIANT is a sneaker with slight variation in the official product. Un-released official colorways that is not distributed to the public are also called Variants (like team college sneakers for players).

FACTORY VARIANTS can either be authentic (will discuss later) or fakes made to look different at factory level i.e. colorways or materials. Variants came into prominence in the sneaker hobby after Jordan retired for the 2nd time with the release of the Jordan XV.  What’s ironic is variants pave way to Customization of sneakers and in a way, Nike ID.

HYBRIDS are sneakers made from two or more models fused together.  In the 80s especially in Asia before Nike gave distribution rights, retailers buy straight from the factories.  Any sneakers damaged in transit are fixed and glued together often times resulting in a sneaker with a different top or bottom. So these sneakers are usually one-offs and not necessarily fakes, it’s just the result of the retailer not wanting to lose a sale.  Again, ironically, hybrids pave way to Nike fusions.

FACTORY SECONDS means imperfections found on the finish product which is also same as B-GRADES.  B-Grades are sneakers that fail the quality inspection.  There are two kinds of B-Grades.

FACTORY B-GRADES are sneakers that didn’t make the final cut in the manufacturing process i.e. factory, before shipment to the warehouse for distribution. Usually these sneakers are considered faulty and ‘written off’ (will discuss later).

OUTLET B-GRADES are finished sneakers shipped from the factory but failed the quality inspection for official distribution to the retailers-consumers.  Failed units are usually sneakers with minor cosmetic flaws.  Usually if one unit fails the inspection, 100 units before and after are taken out and considered B-Grades i.e.  1 fail unit = 201 B-Grades units to the outlets.


OK, SO WHERE DOES AIR-RANDY FIT IN THE SCHEME OF THINGS?

The best way to describe Air Randy, Marquesole etc is that they cater for the demand that never existed before in the sneaker industry.  Can I coined this term or trademark it? LOL. Anyway, I call these sneakers == GREY SNEAKERS


GREY SNEAKERS?!! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SMOKING?!

You see, fake sneakers are one of the commodities found in the black market.  A BLACK MARKET is the trade of goods and services that are illegal in themselves and/or distributed through illegal channels, such as the selling of stolen goods or counterfeits.

A GREY MARKET is the trade of a commodity through distribution channels which, while legal, are unofficial, unauthorized, or unintended by the original manufacturer. The term grey economy, however, refers to workers being paid under the table, without paying income taxes etc. It is sometimes referred to as the underground economy or "hidden economy".

So thats why I call them GREY SNEAKERS.  It’s not fake because its authentic materials etc but not legit because it is un-authorised, un-sanctioned by Nike.  These dont "exist" in a way because on paper these "excess units" (see factory B-Grades) are shown as defects and/or write offs in the manufacturing cost of the Chinese OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturers) when Nike does an audit.

Please picture this scenario.

1.  Jordan Brand meeting in Jan 2011, OK’s the retro of the Air Jordan III in Holiday 2011.  JB instructed the factory to make a ‘sample’.

2.  Sample produced and shown in JB meeting in March 2011.  JB’s approved the sample. 

3.  The sample and ‘TECH PACK’ are given to the OEM factory in June 2011 for mass production of say 1000 units for $XXX money.

4.  The OEM factory was given 3 months from July to September 2011 to produce 1000 units.

5.  The OEM factory allows OVERRUNS to compensate for possible faulty, defected units or Factory B-Grades. Therefore the factory produces 1000 units + OVERRUN units.

6.  The OEM shows these OVERRUNS in the manufacturing cost as write-offs so on paper when Nike does an audit these are considered ‘destroyed’.

7.  The OEM instead of ‘destroying’ the write-offs instead sell these units for extra $XXX. This is where Air-Randy etc comes in.

8.  Usually the Air Randys get the first batch or the run of units thus the sneakers may look slighty different (see Variant as well) and different packaging and accessories (e.g. the shoe horn used is from previous stock).

9.  Air Randy sells these units in July and September online to us, sneaker afficianados, which is the same timeline at the production time at the factory. THUS out in the streets months in advance of the official release date.

10.  Once the OEM finished the order and shipped the 1000 units, they can be greedy and sell the TECH PACKS and SAMPLE to the counterfeit industry.

11.  JB received the 1000 units in the warehouse in October. Looks for any potential outlet B-Grade units then distribute the remainder to the retailers for the Dec 2011 Holiday release.

Don’t be naïve to think that the Triads etc are not a part of this.  They do in the Black Market but they are keeping an eye at the Grey Market as well. 


NIKE SHOULD DO SOMETHING!

NOPE!  This is the tradeoff for Nike outsourcing their intellectual property to countries with little or even no regard to patents/trademarks, brand protection and lax labour practices in the name of maximizing profits. 

At the end of the day, Nike is not pursuing the Grey Market Merchants of the sneaker world like Air Randys and Marqueesoles. WHY?

1.  It hardly put a dent on the $$$ billions gross sale profit of Nike

2. Sneakers worn out in the street months in advance of the release are UNPAID PUBLICITY and MARKETING.  Nike is really a marketing company as well.


SO ARE THEY GOOD OR BAD?

These sneaker merchants see a market for these grey sneakers and they capitalise on it. It wise business move I say because if Air Randy dont, someone else will.  If they stay in the grey market then IMO its all good but if they are doing counterfeiting then HATE HATE.

Again it really is a fine line. In the end we THE CONSUMER WINS because WE HAVE A CHOICE.  However its CAVEAT EMPTOR.  Let the buyer beware.  IT IS WHAT IT IS.

 

[160jordansdeep]

i asked the owner of vmvinc to e-mail me the receipt's for sales of the jordan 13 ray allen's

so he can prove he got his stock from a local store in hong kong and that there not b grade's

i think if you got a bad pair its has nothing to do with vmvinc and there source of the shoes

its more nikes falt for bad materials used on the shoe there where sold at a legit nike account in HK

i stand by what i said about vmvinc and the shoes i got

there good money with me

 

[upandcoming32]

Great read. Thanks BP

 

[djeo23]

Originally Posted by SLP Product

Thanks to 

Josh311, he posted this on the Concord XI thread

Interesting read here...........

Sorry if this has been posted.

This is from http://www.sneakerfreaker.com/

SO WHICH ONE IS WHICH?

FAKE - by definition means not authentic or genuine.  Fake product is the term used for the illegal copying and manufacturing of name-brand products.  In also goes by the other names like imitation, replicas, knockoffs or bootleg. BOOTLEGGING is to produce, reproduce and distribute without authorization or license.  COUNTERFEIT is an imitation with intent of fraudulently passing it off as genuine. In essence Fake is a poor DUPLICATE of the genuine product. 

For example, a Fake Jordan IV starts by obtaining an authentic Jordan IV (normally smuggled out from the original factory) to reverse engineer, make a mould and use inferior direct and indirect materials in the build.  If you reproduce more Fake Jordan IV for distribution then you are BOOTLEGGING.  If you intend to pass your FAKE Jordan IV as genuine, then you are COUNTERFEITING.

VARIANT is a sneaker with slight variation in the official product. Un-released official colorways that is not distributed to the public are also called Variants (like team college sneakers for players).

FACTORY VARIANTS can either be authentic (will discuss later) or fakes made to look different at factory level i.e. colorways or materials. Variants came into prominence in the sneaker hobby after Jordan retired for the 2nd time with the release of the Jordan XV.  What’s ironic is variants pave way to Customization of sneakers and in a way, Nike ID.

HYBRIDS are sneakers made from two or more models fused together.  In the 80s especially in Asia before Nike gave distribution rights, retailers buy straight from the factories.  Any sneakers damaged in transit are fixed and glued together often times resulting in a sneaker with a different top or bottom. So these sneakers are usually one-offs and not necessarily fakes, it’s just the result of the retailer not wanting to lose a sale.  Again, ironically, hybrids pave way to Nike fusions.

FACTORY SECONDS means imperfections found on the finish product which is also same as B-GRADES.  B-Grades are sneakers that fail the quality inspection.  There are two kinds of B-Grades.

FACTORY B-GRADES are sneakers that didn’t make the final cut in the manufacturing process i.e. factory, before shipment to the warehouse for distribution. Usually these sneakers are considered faulty and ‘written off’ (will discuss later).

OUTLET B-GRADES are finished sneakers shipped from the factory but failed the quality inspection for official distribution to the retailers-consumers.  Failed units are usually sneakers with minor cosmetic flaws.  Usually if one unit fails the inspection, 100 units before and after are taken out and considered B-Grades i.e.  1 fail unit = 201 B-Grades units to the outlets.


OK, SO WHERE DOES AIR-RANDY FIT IN THE SCHEME OF THINGS?

The best way to describe Air Randy, Marquesole etc is that they cater for the demand that never existed before in the sneaker industry.  Can I coined this term or trademark it? LOL. Anyway, I call these sneakers == GREY SNEAKERS


GREY SNEAKERS?!! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SMOKING?!

You see, fake sneakers are one of the commodities found in the black market.  A BLACK MARKET is the trade of goods and services that are illegal in themselves and/or distributed through illegal channels, such as the selling of stolen goods or counterfeits.

A GREY MARKET is the trade of a commodity through distribution channels which, while legal, are unofficial, unauthorized, or unintended by the original manufacturer. The term grey economy, however, refers to workers being paid under the table, without paying income taxes etc. It is sometimes referred to as the underground economy or "hidden economy".

So thats why I call them GREY SNEAKERS.  It’s not fake because its authentic materials etc but not legit because it is un-authorised, un-sanctioned by Nike.  These dont "exist" in a way because on paper these "excess units" (see factory B-Grades) are shown as defects and/or write offs in the manufacturing cost of the Chinese OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturers) when Nike does an audit.

Please picture this scenario.

1.  Jordan Brand meeting in Jan 2011, OK’s the retro of the Air Jordan III in Holiday 2011.  JB instructed the factory to make a ‘sample’.

2.  Sample produced and shown in JB meeting in March 2011.  JB’s approved the sample. 

3.  The sample and ‘TECH PACK’ are given to the OEM factory in June 2011 for mass production of say 1000 units for $XXX money.

4.  The OEM factory was given 3 months from July to September 2011 to produce 1000 units.

5.  The OEM factory allows OVERRUNS to compensate for possible faulty, defected units or Factory B-Grades. Therefore the factory produces 1000 units + OVERRUN units.

6.  The OEM shows these OVERRUNS in the manufacturing cost as write-offs so on paper when Nike does an audit these are considered ‘destroyed’.

7.  The OEM instead of ‘destroying’ the write-offs instead sell these units for extra $XXX. This is where Air-Randy etc comes in.

8.  Usually the Air Randys get the first batch or the run of units thus the sneakers may look slighty different (see Variant as well) and different packaging and accessories (e.g. the shoe horn used is from previous stock).

9.  Air Randy sells these units in July and September online to us, sneaker afficianados, which is the same timeline at the production time at the factory. THUS out in the streets months in advance of the official release date.

10.  Once the OEM finished the order and shipped the 1000 units, they can be greedy and sell the TECH PACKS and SAMPLE to the counterfeit industry.

11.  JB received the 1000 units in the warehouse in October. Looks for any potential outlet B-Grade units then distribute the remainder to the retailers for the Dec 2011 Holiday release.

Don’t be naïve to think that the Triads etc are not a part of this.  They do in the Black Market but they are keeping an eye at the Grey Market as well. 


NIKE SHOULD DO SOMETHING!

NOPE!  This is the tradeoff for Nike outsourcing their intellectual property to countries with little or even no regard to patents/trademarks, brand protection and lax labour practices in the name of maximizing profits. 

At the end of the day, Nike is not pursuing the Grey Market Merchants of the sneaker world like Air Randys and Marqueesoles. WHY?

1.  It hardly put a dent on the $$$ billions gross sale profit of Nike

2. Sneakers worn out in the street months in advance of the release are UNPAID PUBLICITY and MARKETING.  Nike is really a marketing company as well.


SO ARE THEY GOOD OR BAD?

These sneaker merchants see a market for these grey sneakers and they capitalise on it. It wise business move I say because if Air Randy dont, someone else will.  If they stay in the grey market then IMO its all good but if they are doing counterfeiting then HATE HATE.

Again it really is a fine line. In the end we THE CONSUMER WINS because WE HAVE A CHOICE.  However its CAVEAT EMPTOR.  Let the buyer beware.  IT IS WHAT IT IS.

   Wow... a very interesting read...

 

[moneymike88]

Originally Posted by 160jordansdeep

Which implies that he sold 4 pairs (?)

 

[whiteybulgerakaforumenforcer]

Glad I copped two pair in Boston...

Sorry to all of those that got fakes! Hopefully peeps won't buy from these overseas sites anymore! Buyer beware!

with that said is there any chance these will be re-released?

 

[160jordansdeep]

Originally Posted by moneymike88

Originally Posted by 160jordansdeep

Originally Posted by DownyBoy

why feel sorry for these kids? they knew what they were getting into. suckers are born everyday.

because that could have been me
besides thats alot of money to spent a get nothing for it

I'm dying to see what the stitching under your insole looks like

dont hold your breath because its not going to happen
i never take the insoles out of  ANY of my shoes and i am not going to do it for anyone on here 

 

[160jordansdeep]

Originally Posted by moneymike88

Originally Posted by 160jordansdeep

Which implies that he sold 4 pairs (?)

i told him to send me the slips he had and i said it would be good if you could take pics of all of them 
but i guess thats what he did 

anyways i am good with what i got 

 i saw a pic of a few on here and SC that got pairs from vmvinc and most are happy with what they got 

 

[mr nike authentic]

Originally Posted by 160jordansdeep

Originally Posted by moneymike88

Originally Posted by 160jordansdeep

Which implies that he sold 4 pairs (?)

i told him to send me the slips he had and i said it would be good if you could take pics of all of them 
but i guess thats what he did 

anyways i am good with what i got 

 i saw a pic of a few on here and SC that got pairs from vmvinc and most are happy with what they got 

Funny, from I what I've been reading most are not happy and filing disputes on paypal ESP from the SC site. I think you and TheSurgeon are the only ones that are content with VMVinc. I'm returning these fakes back ASAP as a receipt from some hong kong store does not justify authenticity, done.

 

[whiteybulgerakaforumenforcer]

those look good to me....

I would be wary though of ordering from an overseas site with all of these fakes!

maybe you just got lucky and got an authentic pair? Either way congrats on your Kicks!

they look legit

 

[dro3000]

Thanks for Posting that SLP!!!

Here is something I found looking on Craigslist in Boston......I hope Im not breaking any rules posting a CL ad, its not mine tho and Im posting it as evidence we might have some fakes rather than B grades

http://providence.craigslist.org/clo/2539838085.html

Dude says hes got Fake Ray's, Fake SB's and Fake T23's for sale

I think this release was actually a blessing. Its gonna open up the eyes of a lot of sneakerheads.

 

[sosmoove]

Originally Posted by 160jordansdeep

Originally Posted by moneymike88

Originally Posted by 160jordansdeep

Originally Posted by DownyBoy

why feel sorry for these kids? they knew what they were getting into. suckers are born everyday.

because that could have been me
besides thats alot of money to spent a get nothing for it

I'm dying to see what the stitching under your insole looks like

dont hold your breath because its not going to happen
i never take the insoles out of  ANY of my shoes and i am not going to do it for anyone on here 

lol. Don't know why this made me chuckle.

 

[moneymike88]

you dont need to take them out..just lift them up son

 

[three2three]

Originally Posted by moneymike88

you dont need to take them out..just lift them up son

I'm thinking he dont wanna find out the truth.