Ask a former NIKE Basketball employee...

[vood99]

Since we're speaking of retros... Let me ask you guys... What do you think of the Safari Pack that just dropped? I got to see them in person and they look much better in person then they did online in pics. The leather seemed to be of a good quality and the ostrich print was on point. Did NIKE give these the proper treatment (that I feel ALL retros deserve) just because of the "NRG"?

Looking at pictures, it would appear that they are running pleather on the mid-panels and vinyl/leatherette on the toebox. The overall glossiness of the synthetic materials is a dead give-away.

How badly do you want these and do you feel they are worth full pop?

 

[vood99]

Still Scary AKA... I agreed when the 2k4 came out. Loved the casual comfort but I NEVER played in that shell of a shoe. Was too scared my entire ankle would snap in two.
Indeed it was supposed to be Kobes first shoe and due to some discussions they decided to make it a big Campaign of the Evolution of Nike Basketball and its greatest shoes.
Later the Hyperdunk was presented to Kobe and he was initially concerned about pushing a shoe that could distract from his own. Well he was talked into it and eventually pushed the Hyperdunk to new heights with the Aston Martin Jump and Snake Pool jump.
it was just what the Hyper Line needed to survive on its own and now we have Bron wearing them as we know the line was dying quick the last few seasons. I always thought the Hyper Line could have been treated like the Original Elite Kicks of years ago that had different tech offerings.
THAT was ahead of its time.. but with the advent of Ballers being more serious about their game AND believing anything you tell them about whats the next best thing having a Hyper on a Lunar Zoom and Max (of any kind) tooling would be great options to some.
But pricing that Lunar Hyper at 180 for the non + is just crazy.... Nike is conditioning everyone on new pricing like Gas companies are doing on Gas Prices.. we get used to 3:90 a gallon so when it hits 2.87 to 3.00 bucks we are thinking we are back to glory days when gas was at 1.90 something before Bush got ahold of Iraq. But I digress

Rock, correct me if I'm wrong but the whole Kobe/Colorado incident was going on around that time frame correct? There were rumours then that the 2K4 and 2K5 were the KB I and KB II but they dropped the Kobe moniker just to let the whole incident die over. Incidentally, I once had samples of 2K5s with Kobe logos that they were floating around that time.

I hear you the pricing issue and my advice is to always wait for a sale!

 

[dprociak]

Thanks for your time to share OP

 

[miamin2]

Don't quote me on this but I'm pretty sure there were samples of the 2k4s with the #8 on the heel cup where the huarache symbol ended up being.


So can you guys confirm if the 2k4 retro's even have zoom air in them? Or are they basically like that Total Package take-down model?

 

[sourorbetter]

Looking at pictures, it would appear that they are running pleather on the mid-panels and vinyl/leatherette on the toebox. The overall glossiness of the synthetic materials is a dead give-away.
How badly do you want these and do you feel they are worth full pop?

They aren't glossy at all in person. In pictures they look much brighter then what they actually are. The leather in the front seems precreased. I want them very badly and feel they are def worth the price there at. I feel they're underrated! So that's why I ask this question... AKA and NikeDealer... What are your thoughts on the quality for the safari pack?

 

[nikedealer]

They aren't glossy at all in person. In pictures they look much brighter then what they actually are. The leather in the front seems precreased. I want them very badly and feel they are def worth the price there at. I feel they're underrated! So that's why I ask this question... AKA and NikeDealer... What are your thoughts on the quality for the safari pack?

Im not a fan of them myself. I like some odd stuff.. but for me Nike's from NSW all run together in quality although on the flip side.. some SBs and AF1s come out nice as hell and you never hear of many quality issues.

 

[catch22]

Talk of the "Olympic BB4's" made me sentimental...blew the dust of the "Gold Medals".

 

[gregjr]

Great info in this thread, thanks

 

[vood99]

AKA, you can bet that the $300+ models will have some of the more desirable/hyped colourways of the LBJ line. The general public will not be scooping them up and if at all they sell out you can bet it will be resellers buying them.

On the subject of gimmicks, Nike/Adidas/Reebok have been doing it for years - it's not really fair to single out Nike in this case. But you are indeed right, when there is literally nothing to separate an entry level product from a flagship product then they will go hard with the gimmicks.

Now AKA, I know that you're interested in Larry Miller's return to JB - but what do you think he can bring to the table? Yes, Nike and JB are making a truck load of money but they've lost their way (IMHO). JB should really be Nike's 'premium' brand but their retro product and NSW are battling each other for 'authentic fake' status. JB's flagship and signature product are nothing more Flywire/Hyperfuse mashups with Jumpman logos on them.

What can these guys do to right the ship on top of maintaining production standards and restoring quality to pre'08 levels?

 

[nikedealer]

Well vood.. quality is no longer Job #1 at the Swoosh or Jumpman for their non signature lines. Profit Lines are where its at.

 

[Deleted member 38182]

rck2sactown-
You can drop them a line and ask if anything's coming up - let them know if you're playing in a league.  A lot of it depends on submitting complete fedback on time.  When I was there, the two main sample sizes were 9 and 13 but they were expanding into a broader size run. 

Ah ok, I'm an 11 and have been surprised how often I get tests to be honest just started testing some good stuff too

 

[nikedealer]

I really hate that half this thread was lost still.

Geez... ALOT of good stuff was posted from several folks in the lost parts..

 

[vood99]

I really hate that half this thread was lost still.
Geez... ALOT of good stuff was posted from several folks in the lost parts..

Rock, we lost info but more importantly it would be nice if we got more people opening their eyes and posting in this thread. Seems like it's just you, AKA and myself.

 

[vood99]

Oh, I can single out Nike in regard to those gimmicks, because the additions that Reebok and Adidas used in their shoes, actually WORKED!
Therein lies the difference. Nike can afford to partake in marketing hyperbole, due to how large they are, then how much money they can spend. Most people will simply forget about their flops, due to how quickly Nike will usher in the next new gimmick, read fuel bands, that do not work as well as expected.
Other companies do not have that luxury, as it is indeed expensive. With the other companies, they cannot afford bad press buy putting out bad product, one that does not do what it is supposed to do. Crazy Light? Well, it is crazy light! Reebok Pump? Oh yeah, it works! Monkey Paw?
Uhhh, no. Name one so called innovation that Nike basketball has produced, one that does what it is claimed to do in regard to improving the performance of the athlete, and the shoe. It seems to me that if their product actually does what they claim it can do, they'd have a helluva time topping what they've already produced. To be honest, they really, really, don't want you to only rock their retro's, now do they? If that is all you bought from Nike, what would that say about their future? Do they really innovate, or do they rehash already present ideas? Are those people who were truly inspired, still at the helm of Nike's innovation kitchen?
Which leads me to Jordan and Larry Miller. Micheal Jordan is an incredibly competitive person, he loves his rep, then loves winning. I know for a fact that he enjoys that his retro'd shoes outsell that of all Nike Basketball and their endorsers. I also know that he'd love to own more than he already owns, so putting certain people in important positions, can and will enhance his profile, so that he can focus on bigger matters.

AKA, I grew up on Pumps, DMX, Feet You Wear, etc... I know what you're talking about and I wish Adidas and Reebok were more relevant. That said, in the sea of Nike gimmicks - what's your take on Nike Air? Not Zoom, Max, etc... just Nike Air in its OG form, not the current iteration which uses Nitrogen.

On the subject of JB, what's your opinion and Rock's on the weekly retro? Does JB run the risk of oversaturating the market with re-re-re-releases, especially since everyone is a 'sneakerhead' and takes care of their kicks?

 

[stickyricky34]

Well vood.. quality is no longer Job #1 at the Swoosh or Jumpman for their non signature lines. Profit Lines are where its at.

Wouldn't profit have been #1 over quality since 1980? Since that is when NKE became a publicly traded company. Once you become a publicly traded company, the officers running that company #1 job is increasing shareholder value not providing a super quality product to the consumer. If you can't increase those earnings through new products you must do it some way such as using cheaper materials/labor, building hype, gimmicks, etc. Hence why New Balance products (just using them as an example) are thought to be of better quality because they aren't a publicly traded company and don't have to worry about attracting new investors or keeping current investors happy.

When a company is publicly traded there is huge pressure to increase those earnings every quarter or the share price will suffer. Publicly traded companies will say how all they want to do is provide quality products but really all they care about is increasing those earnings since most companies pay their officers via stock options giving them an enormous incentive to do so. The product does have to be quality to an extent but they will try to keep the cost to manufacturer as low as the consumer purchasing the product will let them.

 

[nikedealer]

Vood... if Retailers are willing to buy the retro's on a weekly basis and are moving units you cant really say its an over saturation. Its merely Supply meeting Demand.

I still think Retailers take a hit because the sell thru isnt what they'd like and discounts are hitting alot of the retro's which we all know aren't Camp out Day one sell outs.

This coupled with good sales on Team Shoes....

Jordan is doing their job no matter how bad many of us think some of the product is. Its got a Jumpman on it and its a lower price point than the signature so that makes it something Parents will buy their kids...

 

[vood99]

Vood... if Retailers are willing to buy the retro's on a weekly basis and are moving units you cant really say its an over saturation. Its merely Supply meeting Demand.
I still think Retailers take a hit because the sell thru isnt what they'd like and discounts are hitting alot of the retro's which we all know aren't Camp out Day one sell outs.
This coupled with good sales on Team Shoes....
Jordan is doing their job no matter how bad many of us think some of the product is. Its got a Jumpman on it and its a lower price point than the signature so that makes it something Parents will buy their kids...

Understood Rock - JB's got the market in the palm of their hands presently as people are blinded by the Jumpman.

 

[nikedealer]

Well.. I dont know about Blinded.. you have to think consumers are going to pay for what they want.

We all want what we want. We know we have options.. but at times Brand Loyalty or Rand Recognition wins out.

When women purchase heels.. I RARELY (only at times) hear a female say Im looking for comfort when purchasing heels.. they want looks.. name brand.... it those women who care rarely be critical of a shoe head as they spend hundreds of dollars sometimes on ONE pair of heels.

I got my girl some Louis boots for $400 bones once.. (never again)... you would have thought it was an engagement ring.

Consumers want what they want. We cant hate or judge on that...

 

[bucknuteagle]

Well.. I dont know about Blinded.. you have to think consumers are going to pay for what they want.
We all want what we want. We know we have options.. but at times Brand Loyalty or Rand Recognition wins out.
When women purchase heels.. I RARELY (only at times) hear a female say Im looking for comfort when purchasing heels.. they want looks.. name brand.... it those women who care rarely be critical of a shoe head as they spend hundreds of dollars sometimes on ONE pair of heels.
I got my girl some Louis boots for $400 bones once.. (never again)... you would have thought it was an engagement ring.
Consumers want what they want. We cant hate or judge on that...

Rock I have to disagree somewhat on the "consumers want what they want" statement. I'd amend that to "consumers want what they're successfully marketed to want." Assuming relatively equal product (which most sneakers are at this point as far as wearability goes) marketing is king, and Nike is king of marketing their product. Even something like Nike+ and fuel points (aka a bs metric that exists for no real reason) is EVERYWHERE. I can't even use twitter anymore because every remotely Nike affiliated feed constantly talks about hyperdunk+/fuel band rewards and measurements. I see something about adidas, new balance, etc. once in a blue moon on any social media or any media platform.

Also, this is one helluva thread and I wish more knowledgeable people would contribute; I know there's more than 3 people with direct experience in the field on this board.

 

[secretzofwar]

Not sure if anyone tracks Under Armour, but they are making some moves in the shoe game. Revenue up over 40% to about $68m. Not Nike or adidas, but UA is definitely gaining some traction.

AKA, you rip on Nike for not being very profitable, but UA is significantly worse. This "hypergrowth" company grew net income by about $400k

 

[vanexellent]

There are some on this site who do not want this sort of conversation to take place, as they wish to keep all threads directed toward the shoes. What that does is to dumb down all discussions, eliminating any honesty about their favorite brand. It was done earlier in this thread, with some calling Coach Hubie, as those sort of posters only want conversation that are pro Nike. We all know that Nike has their interns posting here, with Petrie and a few others were posting here as well. Sole Collector even has Mod who's an actual Nike employee there, one who'll squelch any non pro Nike conversation, especially those that aren't stated buy someone who has more authority than he.
So now what they'll do is to try and ignore a thread, pretending that it is not there, then perhaps it will just go away.
Nike Air has never been proven to be any more effective than any other cushioning set up. Reebok used air in their DMX setups, the air transfer system, but I've never seen the advantage of using air over regular EVA, especially when we are talking about what's actually better for the athlete, then also the durability and quality of a shoe.
In regard to Nike putting out more Jordan product, well, they've got to, that's all people are buying. As I've said on an earlier post, Jordan Brand is saving Nike again, and Nike knows this. Where do any of you think that Nike would presently be, without Jordan Brand?
You wanna bring up Kobe?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
LeBron could do a little something, but they have him on a tight leash. When did you ever see Jordan wear Nike Basketball product on court, on the global stage mind you, when his shoe was available? Outside of his personal shoes being stolen, it wasn't gonna happen!
So I am predicting it right here, maybe not immediately, but Jordan soon is going to have an even larger stake in Nike. His profile is what the shareholders will have confidence in, and then the markets as well. If Nike slips in value, watch what happens. As you've stated, they've been releasing a whole bunch of the desired shoes as of late, and this isn't happening by accident.

Well if you mean me exposing your former screen names (Coach Hubie, Splendid Vision,Justice God, Jack Johnson) and it due my Nike allegiance or even me being a Nike intern/employee...well wrong on all three.
I make it a point to point out who you were just so all remember your agenda (anti-Nike and banned several times from Niketalk for hi-jacking posts with personal attacks when you cant change the minds of the "skateboarding kids" or "sycophants of the swoosh"). I dont work for Nike and my problem with you is not what you say but how you say it. Throw in the times you had facts wrong (remember how you with your friends in league yet still told us about the white player in the NBA banned for steroids when only Birdman was banned for drugs and MacClean & Giger were suspended for Steroids) or when you posted as "Justice God", the militant Muslim character who was created just to personally attack Niketalkers then your past on Niketalk should be noted and taken into consideration by those actually trying to have an intelligent and thoughtful conversation with an open mind and no agenda.

 

[vood99]

Not sure if anyone tracks Under Armour, but they are making some moves in the shoe game. Revenue up over 40% to about $68m. Not Nike or adidas, but UA is definitely gaining some traction.
AKA, you rip on Nike for not being very profitable, but UA is significantly worse. This "hypergrowth" company grew net income by about $400k

Secretz, after you posted the stats above I went over to the 'Other Sneakers' forum and peep at UA's product offerings. I noticed that they have their variation of 'HyperFuse/Flywire'. It would've been refreshing if they offered a full grain leather product. Nevertheless kudos to them for being a player in the athletic footwear game.

 

[vood99]

Rock I have to disagree somewhat on the "consumers want what they want" statement. I'd amend that to "consumers want what they're successfully marketed to want." Assuming relatively equal product (which most sneakers are at this point as far as wearability goes) marketing is king, and Nike is king of marketing their product. Even something like Nike+ and fuel points (aka a bs metric that exists for no real reason) is EVERYWHERE. I can't even use twitter anymore because every remotely Nike affiliated feed constantly talks about hyperdunk+/fuel band rewards and measurements. I see something about adidas, new balance, etc. once in a blue moon on any social media or any media platform.
Also, this is one helluva thread and I wish more knowledgeable people would contribute; I know there's more than 3 people with direct experience in the field on this board.

Rock & Bucknut - both of your posts have truth in them. The 'onus' is 'on us' to be informed!

 

[vood99]

There are some on this site who do not want this sort of conversation to take place, as they wish to keep all threads directed toward the shoes. What that does is to dumb down all discussions, eliminating any honesty about their favorite brand. It was done earlier in this thread, with some calling Coach Hubie, as those sort of posters only want conversation that are pro Nike. We all know that Nike has their interns posting here, with Petrie and a few others were posting here as well. Sole Collector even has Mod who's an actual Nike employee there, one who'll squelch any non pro Nike conversation, especially those that aren't stated buy someone who has more authority than he.
So now what they'll do is to try and ignore a thread, pretending that it is not there, then perhaps it will just go away.
Nike Air has never been proven to be any more effective than any other cushioning set up. Reebok used air in their DMX setups, the air transfer system, but I've never seen the advantage of using air over regular EVA, especially when we are talking about what's actually better for the athlete, then also the durability and quality of a shoe.
In regard to Nike putting out more Jordan product, well, they've got to, that's all people are buying. As I've said on an earlier post, Jordan Brand is saving Nike again, and Nike knows this. Where do any of you think that Nike would presently be, without Jordan Brand?
You wanna bring up Kobe?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
LeBron could do a little something, but they have him on a tight leash. When did you ever see Jordan wear Nike Basketball product on court, on the global stage mind you, when his shoe was available? Outside of his personal shoes being stolen, it wasn't gonna happen!
So I am predicting it right here, maybe not immediately, but Jordan soon is going to have an even larger stake in Nike. His profile is what the shareholders will have confidence in, and then the markets as well. If Nike slips in value, watch what happens. As you've stated, they've been releasing a whole bunch of the desired shoes as of late, and this isn't happening by accident.

AKA, my man you're preaching to the choir here.

I understand what you're saying about JB and I think JB's immense popularity is responsible for the decline in NIke's popularity. In essence they are their own worst enemy. Mind you though I'm not talking about their earnings and/or revenue as JB is under Nike's umbrella but rather their popularity and the public's perception of them.

Some food for thought, would the Nike/JB sycophants buy a retro IV with 'Nike Air' on it and absolutely no Jordan/Jumpman/23/ logos on it? Conversely, if JB were to form their own company would the masses buy an ORIGINAL Jordan product that was not in any shape or form inspired by their legacy/history with Nike?

 

[vanexellent]

You speak as if you are some sort of protagonist, one who gets to dictate how someone should speak, as if you have some power. You are nothing, and then will remain nothing but wasted space. I was asked to be here, so you can get lost in the abyss of sycophants that Nike will continue to exploit.

Nope, just pointing out who you are and what you have done in the past. I am nothing on here as you are no matter how many SN/visits to BANNED camp you have been through, no matter how many so called friends in the "L" you supposedly have or the number of times Method Man has killed you in posts. So when it goes it's usual course (you getting butt hurt at us "sycophants of the swoosh") and getting BANNED for causing trouble (Remember...its not what you say but how you say it. Good arguments are enjoyed & great but when you take the Westboro Baptist route on expressing your views then you get yourself BANNED for your methods not your views).

For all the grief you give Jason Petrie especially after his stupid/ignorant/dumb tweet about Rose's knee injury, yet you have been doing the same thing on NT for years (remember all your theories on Nike Air or Zoom and the injuries you blamed on them?). And worse when your theories didnt change our minds....you told/preached to us how Adidas was the choice of those attending Fashion Week in New York

SO have fun but keep that new SN ready