Ask a former NIKE Basketball employee...

[michigan]

if jordan switched to adidas i think everyone would follow as long as his retro's looked the same.  lets be honest people buy jordans because of the retro's. 

 

[catch22]

Does MJ own the rights to his name/brand and the designs? Or just his brand.

I think they go hand in hand...what good is a retro design without the jumpman on it. But if each party (NIke and MJ) control the individual pieces, then their is a stalemate.

 

[comacoma33]

AKA,

What do you think about the Twitter comment Tinker's son made about quality at Nike, being in direct fault due to the issue that is former St. John's assistant soccer coach, Jim Keady?

 

[comacoma33]

AKA,

He tweeted it over a few weeks ago and i can't find it, but he basically said this:

"For all you complaining about Nike/JB Quality you can thank Jim Keady ... And if you don't know who that is, then shut the #$%^ up"

I thought it was kind of interesting, knowing Keady's past with Nike and all he has done to expose Nike/JB.

 

[nikedealer]

Rock I have to disagree somewhat on the "consumers want what they want" statement. I'd amend that to "consumers want what they're successfully marketed to want." Assuming relatively equal product (which most sneakers are at this point as far as wearability goes) marketing is king, and Nike is king of marketing their product. Even something like Nike+ and fuel points (aka a bs metric that exists for no real reason) is EVERYWHERE. I can't even use twitter anymore because every remotely Nike affiliated feed constantly talks about hyperdunk+/fuel band rewards and measurements. I see something about adidas, new balance, etc. once in a blue moon on any social media or any media platform.
Also, this is one helluva thread and I wish more knowledgeable people would contribute; I know there's more than 3 people with direct experience in the field on this board.

Well I didnt say Consumers GET what they want.. they just WANT what they want..lol... I mean ALL brands are supposed to Market to us. Weiden and Kennedy take that ball and run for Nike. Nike's ability to get eye level wall space in Major Retailers and Mom and Pops making sure all their Nikes are at eye level help.

We only know what we know as consumers.. or want to know. If there is info to find we cant get ... we work on only what we know. Design and Brand Loyalty in many cases.

So I'd say we are both right... just from a different angle.

 

[ROYGBiV]

Whats up guys, It's probably been asked but how was the pay in your division at NIKE. I'm sure the perks where awesome but besides that was the pay good enough to look pass the perks you got. In other words was the pay sufficient enough to still work there even if it involved not receiving any sort of perks.

 

[vood99]

Presently, Nike's marketing has gone into overdrive. The Olympics has them on the world stage again, with really no competitors. They are everywhere. On Team USA, they have all Nike endorsers, which must make Coach K sit a bit easier, since he does not have to do this any more...
Is this thing about Country and athletic competition, or simply marketing product?

AKA, the Olympics in general has a been a platform for marketing in the last few decades. The IOC is comprised of some of the super wealthy and elite - they use it as a tool to grow their own fortunes. Is Nike going hard with the advertising - Yes, but so are the rest of the advertisers.

 

[vood99]

Whats up guys, It's probably been asked but how was the pay in your division at NIKE. I'm sure the perks where awesome but besides that was the pay good enough to look pass the perks you got. In other words was the pay sufficient enough to still work there even if it involved not receiving any sort of perks.

My dude, I can't comment on the upper level and executive positions but some of the people I knew working at midlevel, lower and entry positions said that the pay was average at best. The employee discounts were a nice perk and there'd be other freebies and giveaways. After a while though, all the Nike product in the world is not going to offset today's high cost of living and other expenses. There are some die-hards who completely embrace the Swoosh and the Nike/JB subculture but most I knew used their work experience at Nike to move onto bigger and better things. Nike IMHO is one of the best if not the best marketing company - if you're planning a career in marketing and/or sales a stint there would benefit you. Just try to keep things in perspective and keep moving onward and upward in your career.

 

[vood99]

The deal was that Jordan would branch off into his own thing after a certain amount of time, still owning the designs, those under HIS branding. The 1, which was the only one with a swoosh, is Nike's, as I was told.

AKA are you certain of MJ owning the sneaker designs? Maybe Rock can comment on this but I find it highly unlikely for a corporation like Nike to let MJ own the actual designs themselves. The branding, 23, Jumpman, etc. most definitely.

 

[jthagreat]

Presently, Nike's marketing has gone into overdrive. The Olympics has them on the world stage again, with really no competitors. They are everywhere. On Team USA, they have all Nike endorsers, which must make Coach K sit a bit easier, since he does not have to do this any more...

Is this thing about Country and athletic competition, or simply marketing product?

what a great pic, i love how D12 is holding a ball covering the logo.

 

[catch22]

Yup. You've got to remember, this deal was in place before the influence of the Retro market. Nobody knew how big it would be, including Nike.

I couldn't find any design patents assigned to Jordan. Here is a familiar look from Avar : http://tinyurl.com/csb4swu

If Jordan has rights to the designs, it is via a secondary contract/agreement. It is interesting to note that design patents expire after 14 years...

 

[nikedealer]

I've asked a few folks on the Jordan side and who have worked on the Jordan side and none are familiar with Jordan owning rights to his designs post a Contract. The thing is... if Jordan up and left and wanted to leave... he could not take his conceptual designs to another existing company....he'd have to create his own.

If anyone has read comments either or publicly about the decipating relationship he and Tinker has... if Mike could have taken his brand and left.. he would have.. but fact still remains Nike chooses who is at the helm at non Executive positions. Nike runs distributing. Nike handles 90 percent of all things Brand Jordan.

Mike lends his name and oks the logo's use.

THIS is why he is paid a sum of money and has a contract and is not a PARTNER in Nike. If you go to the Careers page you will not see Mike's name listed as the CEO of Jordan Brand.. however you WILL see others Executive's names.

There is a HUGE conflict there with his affiliation with the league and even before it had he been a REAL CEO of Jordan Brand. He has SAY SO and ultimate decisions in designs reaching retail when he chooses and his executive heads.. BUT he aint picking every employee and is not aware of day to day operations.

This is fact.

I do remember Coach K's foot placement and that was CLASSIC NIKE. Take away from them what you will... but give credit when its due.

as for pay.. there are top paying positions within Nike that are NOT Executives. Some Directors and such get stock options. As I said earlier in the missing thread.. some designers are paid an OK amount but make their loot up in Bonuses every year based on numbers met.

As for Patents expiring.. this is why Nike cant sue Walmart and other fly by night shoe spots that infringe on the Air Force Design or when Reebok steals the Jordan III and makes it a 50 Cent production lol...

Its just what they do in the industry... People REALLY think shoe design is easy. Take designing one shoe as a challenge.. then take designing 5 to 10 shoes per season.... While working out the tooling and tech that goes into it.

 

[ROYGBiV]

My dude, I can't comment on the upper level and executive positions but some of the people I knew working at midlevel, lower and entry positions said that the pay was average at best. The employee discounts were a nice perk and there'd be other freebies and giveaways. After a while though, all the Nike product in the world is not going to offset today's high cost of living and other expenses. There are some die-hards who completely embrace the Swoosh and the Nike/JB subculture but most I knew used their work experience at Nike to move onto bigger and better things. Nike IMHO is one of the best if not the best marketing company - if you're planning a career in marketing and/or sales a stint there would benefit you. Just try to keep things in perspective and keep moving onward and upward in your career.

Well thanks for answering the question, can i ask those who are answering questions what your career path was or is? I'm majoring in business at the moment but i think marketing would better suit my ambition to work for a company like Nike. Sure, I would like to be involved in designing aspects, but i dappled with that prior to choosing business as my major and believe me I'm not the designing type.

 

[nikedealer]

Yeah... I can see alot of pages that didnt make the transition have answers to questions being asked...

Aww Crap!!

 

[castrolos]

If you take a look at Dwight's right shoulder, I think that you'll see a swoosh there.
This was Nike's doing. They are greedy, and then not about anything other than their bottom line. This is cool business wise, but also unethical, as the Olympics are supposed to be about athletic competition, patriotism, not brand loyalty.

also coach K's foot is blocking dwight howard's shoes, the only non nike/jordan brand athlete (dwyane wade was wearing converse, but converse had been bought by nike a few years before that picture was taken) on the team that year.

 

[catch22]

What it is, is the Jumpman, that's his. Referring to the question I posed to Rock, do you think that Nike would be able to retro the XI with a swoosh, then expect it to be taken seriously? Let's take ANY of the shoes from Brand Jordan that feature the Jumpman, then replace the logo with the swoosh. Unlike Jordan taking Nike Air off the back of the III's, Nike taking the Jumpman off of an obvious pair of Air Jordan's, will suddenly appear as variants.
Now let's say Jordan took Nike to court, if they decided to do something like, reissue a shoe without Jordan's consent, then featuring a swoosh or Nike Air, can ya' guess what will happen? They can get away with it with Webber's former shoe, Garnett's former shoe, even Kidd's and Penny's, but not Jordan.
Have any of you taken a look at LeBron's line recently? Where's his logo, and then where is the swoosh?

If I understand you, then we are at the stalemate I mentioned...Nike owns the designs (worthless without the Jumpman) and MJ owns the Jumpman (worthless without the design).

Jordan can design the future with another company....Nike can brand the future with another stud. Stalemate.

They are better off together. And I think MJ is better with NIke...his star will fade eventually.

 

[dcs23]

What it is, is the Jumpman, that's his. Referring to the question I posed to Rock, do you think that Nike would be able to retro the XI with a swoosh, then expect it to be taken seriously? Let's take ANY of the shoes from Brand Jordan that feature the Jumpman, then replace the logo with the swoosh. Unlike Jordan taking Nike Air off the back of the III's, Nike taking the Jumpman off of an obvious pair of Air Jordan's, will suddenly appear as variants.
Now let's say Jordan took Nike to court, if they decided to do something like, reissue a shoe without Jordan's consent, then featuring a swoosh or Nike Air, can ya' guess what will happen? They can get away with it with Webber's former shoe, Garnett's former shoe, even Kidd's and Penny's, but not Jordan.
Have any of you taken a look at LeBron's line recently? Where's his logo, and then where is the swoosh?

wowsers...definitely food for thought

 

[bucknuteagle]

If I understand you, then we are at the stalemate I mentioned...Nike owns the designs (worthless without the Jumpman) and MJ owns the Jumpman (worthless without the design).
Jordan can design the future with another company....Nike can brand the future with another stud. Stalemate.
They are better off together. And I think MJ is better with NIke...his star will fade eventually.

I agree with everything you said but the bolded. MJ's star isn't going to fade anytime soon, probably not until MJ passes actually. There's no other player in sport who's going to reach that kind of popularity. The best comparison for him is the Beatles. The combination of his lore and the designs of his sneakers are going to persist just like a Beatles number one compilation. And while Jordan and Nike are best together currently, as someone pointed out earlier in the thread, there's a time limit on design copyright so if MJ does get so totally and completely fed up with Nike that he decides its best to leave, he'll be able to produce relatively faithful recreations of his retros.

 

[michigan]

Well not to question what it is that you are suggesting, but I spoke with, then have a relationship with someone who was incredibly high up with Nike, someone I consider a friend who is trustworthy, and has worked with my own firm on a few events, in which I've met and have had discussions with Micheal himself.
Now there are some things that he would not discuss, but my buddy did after Jordan left the events, and was willing to do so.
There were several occasions where Jordan was going to leave Nike for Adidas, and this time it was over the percentages he was to receive in regard to sales. At that time, he was only getting around one percent of the profits from the shoes that bore his name. His deal was renegotiated, with him being able to run his brand after a certain amount of years, with product only bearing his name, and then not the Swoosh, giving him ownership over his name and branding. Anything, including designs, that resemble or is associated with his name, is HIS. This was proven recently when Jordan recently sued this company.[if IE]><embed src="" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="640" height="390" /><![endif]This sets legal precedent, this isn't Nike suing over the usage of Jordan's name, this is JORDAN suing for Jordan's name.
Rock, I am certain that since you have been affiliated with Nike, then possibly still have friends there, so you cannot say what I can.
If Jordan leaves Nike, everything that has his name, any affiliation, goes with him.
Say if Jordan was to leave Nike, do you actually think that Nike would be able to retro the XI, without Jordan being mentioned at all?
Can't happen, and that is why Nike can take Webber's name off his shoes, Duncan, Kidd, Penny, because their deals were different. If that were not the case, then you'd see Nike Air all over those retro's, and then even the new Jordan's as well.
I'd love to see what they'd call Kobe's shoes after they take his name off of them...

Wow so really the ball is in Jordan's court.  I actually think Jordan leaving Nike would be a good thing for sneakerheads because I think it would make Nike step up their quality of their product.  Plus the Jordan brand releases a lot more pairs then the nike sigs do.  Like when the cavs 4's dropped as a quickstrike the HOH I shop at recieved like 100 pairs.  When a Lebron, Durant, or Kobe quickstrike drops at the same HOH they only get like 30 pairs.   Nike would release more pairs to try and keep up with Jordan which would make it easier for sneakerheads to cop and I think it would help slow rising prices.  Just think for the 2012- 2013 season some Lebrons are gonna be $315.00 a pair.    I bet if you told that to people just a couple years ago they would of  said your crazy. 

 

[h2k4]

Interesting thread, to say the least.  As a consumer, if Jordan Brand ever left Nike, I seriously doubt I would buy Jordan's again.  I grew up on both logos being connected to each other.  It's sad to see where the brand was in the 90's and where it's at today.  Sure, profits may prove otherwise but the brand(s) have diminished.

I think it was AKA that mentioned Nike Running isn't taken serious and I can attest to that.  Ask any serious runner and you'll hear names like Asics, Brooks, Saucony before you'll hear someone mention a Nike running shoe.  Casually, it's a nice shoe but it is no way near what Asics and the other brands are doing to help runners.

 

[bence23]

Love reading and lurking this thread. Great discussion.

can someone shed some light on what the beef between MJ and tinker is?

 

[bucknuteagle]

Interesting thread, to say the least.  As a consumer, if Jordan Brand ever left Nike, I seriously doubt I would buy Jordan's again.  I grew up on both logos being connected to each other.  It's sad to see where the brand was in the 90's and where it's at today.  Sure, profits may prove otherwise but the brand(s) have diminished.

I think it was AKA that mentioned Nike Running isn't taken serious and I can attest to that.  Ask any serious runner and you'll hear names like Asics, Brooks, Saucony before you'll hear someone mention a Nike running shoe.  Casually, it's a nice shoe but it is no way near what Asics and the other brands are doing to help runners.

I wouldn't say that Brand Jordan has diminished, as much as it's beginning to change and grow its customer base. Most of the people on this site that joined any substantial period of time ago are from a time when collecting sneakers was a definitive niche. I remember seeing pics of the near-riot from when the Pigeon Dunks released and thinking how small of a crowd that was compared to say, the recent galaxy release in Orlando. What's happened since then is that, as the saying goes, now "everybody is a sneakerhead." Whether this trend will continue and translate into a larger, lasting customer base for JB, I don't know. I'll leave that theorizing for some of the more knowledgeable people in this thread.

Also if JB ever left Nike, it wouldn't be like you'd start seeing the three stripes on all of their shoes. It'd be pretty much exactly like it is now, an independent subsidiary of another large corporation.

 

[nikedealer]

Well not to question what it is that you are suggesting, but I spoke with, then have a relationship with someone who was incredibly high up with Nike, someone I consider a friend who is trustworthy, and has worked with my own firm on a few events, in which I've met and have had discussions with Micheal himself.
Now there are some things that he would not discuss, but my buddy did after Jordan left the events, and was willing to do so.
There were several occasions where Jordan was going to leave Nike for Adidas, and this time it was over the percentages he was to receive in regard to sales. At that time, he was only getting around one percent of the profits from the shoes that bore his name. His deal was renegotiated, with him being able to run his brand after a certain amount of years, with product only bearing his name, and then not the Swoosh, giving him ownership over his name and branding. Anything, including designs, that resemble or is associated with his name, is HIS. This was proven recently when Jordan recently sued this company.

This sets legal precedent, this isn't Nike suing over the usage of Jordan's name, this is JORDAN suing for Jordan's name.
Rock, I am certain that since you have been affiliated with Nike, then possibly still have friends there, so you cannot say what I can.
If Jordan leaves Nike, everything that has his name, any affiliation, goes with him.
Say if Jordan was to leave Nike, do you actually think that Nike would be able to retro the XI, without Jordan being mentioned at all?
Can't happen, and that is why Nike can take Webber's name off his shoes, Duncan, Kidd, Penny, because their deals were different. If that were not the case, then you'd see Nike Air all over those retro's, and then even the new Jordan's as well.
I'd love to see what they'd call Kobe's shoes after they take his name off of them...

Well I think we are under the same guise then... yes... Mike leaves.. Nike has to use another name on their designs... I cant even try and act like I know the design contract details.. but yes... take the Jordan AF1 Fusion.... The Nike side came up with that over in NSW and pitched it to Mike... he said... no as they were going to split the revenue on both sides.

At a later time he said yes... and had it done and handled over on the Jordan side..... and took ALL the revenue lololol. The more I think about some stuff... the more I give credance to what AKA says because of examples like.

When the Nike shoe that resembles the Jordan XI but with straps (the name escapes me and I have 6 pairs) was released they mocked up colorways to resemble EVERY Jordan XI and Mike gave the Alexander thumbs down... So they had to switch up the color blocking. Later they released the Black/Red version and it caused some consternation over at the Brand.

This may be the reason for elephant and cement print used by different categories to jab at Jordan... I remember when the Lebron III was done....it was jokingly called the Jordan XI Cousin.....

Man I could go on and on about examples like that... but I'd have to switch up my thought process on designs as well as the logo and Jordan name.

 

[michigan]

I wouldn't say that Brand Jordan has diminished, as much as it's beginning to change and grow its customer base. Most of the people on this site that joined any substantial period of time ago are from a time when collecting sneakers was a definitive niche. I remember seeing pics of the near-riot from when the Pigeon Dunks released and thinking how small of a crowd that was compared to say, the recent galaxy release in Orlando. What's happened since then is that, as the saying goes, now "everybody is a sneakerhead." Whether this trend will continue and translate into a larger, lasting customer base for JB, I don't know. I'll leave that theorizing for some of the more knowledgeable people in this thread.
Also if JB ever left Nike, it wouldn't be like you'd start seeing the three stripes on all of their shoes. It'd be pretty much exactly like it is now, an independent subsidiary of another large corporation.

Yeah if Jordan went to ADIDAS i dont think we would see any asidas signs on jordans shoes.  they would remain the same as they are now but just with better quality.    I do think the sneakerhead trend will hit its peak in the next year or 2 just like when everyone wanted throwback jerseys for a couple of years.   The true sneakerheads will stay just like the people who wear throwbacks like myself who continue to wear them.

 

[h2k4]

I wouldn't say that Brand Jordan has diminished, as much as it's beginning to change and grow its customer base. Most of the people on this site that joined any substantial period of time ago are from a time when collecting sneakers was a definitive niche. I remember seeing pics of the near-riot from when the Pigeon Dunks released and thinking how small of a crowd that was compared to say, the recent galaxy release in Orlando. What's happened since then is that, as the saying goes, now "everybody is a sneakerhead." Whether this trend will continue and translate into a larger, lasting customer base for JB, I don't know. I'll leave that theorizing for some of the more knowledgeable people in this thread.
Also if JB ever left Nike, it wouldn't be like you'd start seeing the three stripes on all of their shoes. It'd be pretty much exactly like it is now, an independent subsidiary of another large corporation.

In my eyes, it has diminished.  With so many releases every year, and the hundreds of colors that come out in each style, it sort of takes away from the mystique of the Jordan shoe.

Yeah, sadly everyone is up on this "sneaker collecting" tip.  So many people buying now and they fall in 3 categories.  Those who only want to look cool because everybody else has them.  Then you have those people (like myself) who grew up watching Mike and wanting to be like him.  Thinking you could jump from the free throw line wearing his shoes or doing the fadeway jumpshot, lol.  And then you have those who want to buy strictly to resell.

For me Jordan Brand doesn't exist w/o Nike.  I attach all signature Jordans to Nike.  The history of each shoe.  The ad campaigns.  The posters.  So if Jordan Brand ever left Nike, to me, it would take away a lot of the history that shoe has.  Even though the Nike logo has been taken off, it's just a matter of me knowing that Nike is still behind it.  Kind of hard to explain.