Atheists: Always doing the most?

[-Red-]

Thank you Wooly Willy and Mo Matik.

People are just looking for an excuse to attack Islam.  Of course people have freedom of speech, but there are ALWAYS consequences to what a person says or how they express themselves.

It seems to me that white folks, with their sense of entitlement, are the only people who fail to grasp this basic fact of life.  It's like they refuse to believe that they can't control someone's reaction to something... like they have the right to say anything they want without consequence.  Add atheists into the mix in this particular instance...

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by red mpls

Thank you Wooly Willy and Mo Matik.

People are just looking for an excuse to attack Islam.  Of course people have freedom of speech, but there are ALWAYS consequences to what a person says or how they express themselves.

It seems to me that white folks, with their sense of entitlement, are the only people who fail to grasp this basic fact of life.  It's like they refuse to believe that they can't control someone's reaction to something... like they have the right to say anything they want without consequence.  Add atheists into the mix in this particular instance...

-White people, atheism, entitlement.....OH MAI.

 

[f a y b a n]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by F A Y B A N

Anton, stop trying to conflate three entirely unique issues of wealth, intellect, and faith.  You can't for a fact determine which caused the other, which came first, and whether or not they even have any casual effect at all.  I'm sure you've heard the term of "There are no athiests in foxholes."  It's not a coincidence that most of those countries are relatively affluent compared to the regions where the population is more devoutly religious.
That's part of what's offending, how you think the religious are somehow dumb for believing in something you can't prove, it's elitist in the worst way.  

Correlation does not equal causation.....I fully understand that. But this helps prove my point that a Godless society would be more violent/crime-ridden.


I completely agree with you......you're making assumptions about how I'm looking at this.



You can go ahead and quote what i said up there
-Poverty is the strongest determinant of crime NOT whether or not you believe in a Higher being.



Good try tho

Well then let's talk about whether the majority of poverty stricken individuals are religious.  And if they are, could we assume if a strong correlation exists that in essence the religious in fact do commit more crime than athiests?  That's what you've been reiterating/implying all along right, that the religious are a bunch of savages?  But you can't prove whether it's a crime of circumstance or faith that is really the root of those negative actions.  Atheists don't believe in anything apparently so their crime has no particular cause but if a religious person does, right off the bat that's the cause, right?  One say when it's not cool and contrarian to be an athiest you'll look like a jerk, and this is coming from a non-practicing faith based person.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by F A Y B A N

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by F A Y B A N

Anton, stop trying to conflate three entirely unique issues of wealth, intellect, and faith.  You can't for a fact determine which caused the other, which came first, and whether or not they even have any casual effect at all.  I'm sure you've heard the term of "There are no athiests in foxholes."  It's not a coincidence that most of those countries are relatively affluent compared to the regions where the population is more devoutly religious.
That's part of what's offending, how you think the religious are somehow dumb for believing in something you can't prove, it's elitist in the worst way.  

Correlation does not equal causation.....I fully understand that. But this helps prove my point that a Godless society would be more violent/crime-ridden.


I completely agree with you......you're making assumptions about how I'm looking at this.



You can go ahead and quote what i said up there
-Poverty is the strongest determinant of crime NOT whether or not you believe in a Higher being.



Good try tho

Well then let's talk about whether the majority of poverty stricken individuals are religious.  And if they are, could we assume if a strong correlation exists that in essence the religious in fact do commit more crime than athiests?  That's what you've been reiterating/implying all along right, that the religious are a bunch of savages?  But you can't prove whether it's a crime of circumstance or faith that is really the root of those negative actions.  Atheists don't believe in anything apparently so their crime has no particular cause but if a religious person does, right off the bat that's the cause, right?  One say when it's not cool and contrarian to be an athiest you'll look like a jerk, and this is coming from a non-practicing faith based person.

You're missing the point of that post....it was in response to someone implying that religion is what keep humans from committing crime. I showed societies that happen to be godless that has low crime rates.

What you should have taken out of that is that being religious or otherwise isn't a strong determinant of whether a society is prone to criminality or otherwise. I'm not sure but I think we're agreeing with each other.

 

[-Red-]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by red mpls

Thank you Wooly Willy and Mo Matik.

People are just looking for an excuse to attack Islam.  Of course people have freedom of speech, but there are ALWAYS consequences to what a person says or how they express themselves.

It seems to me that white folks, with their sense of entitlement, are the only people who fail to grasp this basic fact of life.  It's like they refuse to believe that they can't control someone's reaction to something... like they have the right to say anything they want without consequence.  Add atheists into the mix in this particular instance...

-White people, atheism, entitlement.....OH MAI.

So there aren't always consequences to what a person says?

White folks and atheists aren't the ones in this thread arguing on the side of "Everybody Draw Muhammad Day?"

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by red mpls

Thank you Wooly Willy and Mo Matik.

People are just looking for an excuse to attack Islam.  Of course people have freedom of speech, but there are ALWAYS consequences to what a person says or how they express themselves.

It seems to me that white folks, with their sense of entitlement, are the only people who fail to grasp this basic fact of life.  It's like they refuse to believe that they can't control someone's reaction to something... like they have the right to say anything they want without consequence.  Add atheists into the mix in this particular instance...

-White people, atheism, entitlement.....OH MAI.

So there aren't always consequences to what a person says?

White folks and atheists aren't the ones in this thread arguing on the side of "Everybody Draw Muhammad Day?"

-Are these consequences always justified? ie. violence, murder
-I love how you brought race into this. smh...i'm not even gonna  go there.

 

[f a y b a n]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by F A Y B A N

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by F A Y B A N

Anton, stop trying to conflate three entirely unique issues of wealth, intellect, and faith.  You can't for a fact determine which caused the other, which came first, and whether or not they even have any casual effect at all.  I'm sure you've heard the term of "There are no athiests in foxholes."  It's not a coincidence that most of those countries are relatively affluent compared to the regions where the population is more devoutly religious.
That's part of what's offending, how you think the religious are somehow dumb for believing in something you can't prove, it's elitist in the worst way.  

Correlation does not equal causation.....I fully understand that. But this helps prove my point that a Godless society would be more violent/crime-ridden.


I completely agree with you......you're making assumptions about how I'm looking at this.



You can go ahead and quote what i said up there
-Poverty is the strongest determinant of crime NOT whether or not you believe in a Higher being.



Good try tho

Well then let's talk about whether the majority of poverty stricken individuals are religious.  And if they are, could we assume if a strong correlation exists that in essence the religious in fact do commit more crime than athiests?  That's what you've been reiterating/implying all along right, that the religious are a bunch of savages?  But you can't prove whether it's a crime of circumstance or faith that is really the root of those negative actions.  Atheists don't believe in anything apparently so their crime has no particular cause but if a religious person does, right off the bat that's the cause, right?  One say when it's not cool and contrarian to be an athiest you'll look like a jerk, and this is coming from a non-practicing faith based person.

You're missing the point of that post....it was in response to someone implying that religion is what keep humans from committing crime. I showed societies that happen to be godless that has low crime rates.

What you should have taken out of that is that being religious or otherwise isn't a strong determinant of whether a society is prone to criminality or otherwise. I'm not sure but I think we're agreeing with each other.

3. I think the purpose of that thread was misunderstood.....I have nothing against Muslims or Religious people. I do have a problem with tyranny, violence, blatant sexual subjugation, lack of accountability, hypocrisy, mental control and enslavement.
But you did kick off this thread with this.  You're framing them hand in hand like the religious commit crime in disproportionate numbers when that simply isn't the case.  Don't seclude religion, just list everything you have a problem with that's guilty of these atrocities.  Stop making a mockery of something that a lot of people take seriously
3. I think the purpose of that thread was misunderstood.....I have nothing against Muslims or Religious people. I do have a problem with tyranny, violence, blatant sexual subjugation, lack of accountability, hypocrisy, mental control and enslavement.

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by DeadsetAce

whatever...not even going to get into the real or fake part...but religion sucks. it's the cause of so many major problems in the world

Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah.

Religion isn't the cause. PEOPLE who use it for their own selfish and malicious motives are bad.

which basically is what religion has been used for da past 1000 years

 

[f a y b a n]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by DeadsetAce

whatever...not even going to get into the real or fake part...but religion sucks. it's the cause of so many major problems in the world

Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah.

Religion isn't the cause. PEOPLE who use it for their own selfish and malicious motives are bad.

which basically is what religion has been used for da past 1000 years

The social progress of the devoutly religious MLK and Gandhi can be attributed to faith too.  You simply can't appeal to the mind to do the right thing through reason and logic, especially when one benefits from the suffering of others.  Whether religion is real or not, it serves a valuable purpose that many aren't willing to acknowledge.  Just keep focusing on the negative because it's simpler and leaves you in a realm of only considering what can absolutely be proven.  

 

[dunkedinsauce]

[h3]"Whenyou attack black people, they call it racism. When you attack Jewishpeople, they call it anti-semetism. When you attack women, they call itsexism. When you attack homosexuality, they call it intolerance. Whenyou attack your country, they call it treason. When you attack areligious sect, they call it hate speech. But when you attack the Prophet (peace be upon him), they want to call it freedom of speech"
[/h3]Look my dude, by all means believe what you want, but going around and disrespecting peoples beliefs is ignorant. If you wanna draw mohammad go ahead, but when you go publishing it to get a response or to irk a people it puts you in a position of responsibility.

Just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean you get a pass to piss all over it.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by DeadsetAce

whatever...not even going to get into the real or fake part...but religion sucks. it's the cause of so many major problems in the world

Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah.

Religion isn't the cause. PEOPLE who use it for their own selfish and malicious motives are bad.

which basically is what religion has been used for da past 1000 years

im mad im agreeing with ninjahood

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by DunkeDinSaucE

[h3]"Whenyou attack black people, they call it racism. When you attack Jewishpeople, they call it anti-semetism. When you attack women, they call itsexism. When you attack homosexuality, they call it intolerance. Whenyou attack your country, they call it treason. When you attack areligious sect, they call it hate speech. But when you attack the Prophet (peace be upon him), they want to call it freedom of speech"
[/h3]Look my dude, by all means believe what you want, but going around and disrespecting peoples beliefs is ignorant. If you wanna draw mohammad go ahead, but when you go publishing it to get a response or to irk a people it puts you in a position of responsibility.

Just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean you get a pass to piss all over it.

LOL.....ok that's all well and good. But if someone calls me a n***** I'm not going to plant a bomb/kidnap and behead people in retaliation. Again, people are missing the point.

 

[-Red-]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by red mpls

Thank you Wooly Willy and Mo Matik.

People are just looking for an excuse to attack Islam.  Of course people have freedom of speech, but there are ALWAYS consequences to what a person says or how they express themselves.

It seems to me that white folks, with their sense of entitlement, are the only people who fail to grasp this basic fact of life.  It's like they refuse to believe that they can't control someone's reaction to something... like they have the right to say anything they want without consequence.  Add atheists into the mix in this particular instance...

-White people, atheism, entitlement.....OH MAI.

So there aren't always consequences to what a person says?

White folks and atheists aren't the ones in this thread arguing on the side of "Everybody Draw Muhammad Day?"

-Are these consequences always justified? ie. violence, murder
-I love how you brought race into this. smh...i'm not even gonna  go there.

No the consequences are not always justified, I never said that and I don't believe that.  However, do you want to deal with the world the way it is or the way you want it to be?

Do you really believe it is worth it to offend tens, if not hundreds, of millions of people across the globe for the sake of asserting your right to insult someone and someone's beliefs?  Do you really expect someone who lives in a society that does not have freedom of speech to fully respect the freedom of speech of people halfway around the world who are deliberately insulting what they consider to be sacred?

As for race, why not go there?  Do you honestly think that racial dynamics have nothing to do with where one stands on this issue?

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by DunkeDinSaucE

[h3]"Whenyou attack black people, they call it racism. When you attack Jewishpeople, they call it anti-semetism. When you attack women, they call itsexism. When you attack homosexuality, they call it intolerance. Whenyou attack your country, they call it treason. When you attack areligious sect, they call it hate speech. But when you attack the Prophet (peace be upon him), they want to call it freedom of speech"
[/h3]Look my dude, by all means believe what you want, but going around and disrespecting peoples beliefs is ignorant. If you wanna draw mohammad go ahead, but when you go publishing it to get a response or to irk a people it puts you in a position of responsibility.

Just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean you get a pass to piss all over it.

LOL.....ok that's all well and good. But if someone calls me a n***** I'm not going to plant a bomb/kidnap and behead people in retaliation. Again, people are missing the point.

Are you going to do nothing?

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by red mpls

Thank you Wooly Willy and Mo Matik.

People are just looking for an excuse to attack Islam.  Of course people have freedom of speech, but there are ALWAYS consequences to what a person says or how they express themselves.

It seems to me that white folks, with their sense of entitlement, are the only people who fail to grasp this basic fact of life.  It's like they refuse to believe that they can't control someone's reaction to something... like they have the right to say anything they want without consequence.  Add atheists into the mix in this particular instance...

-White people, atheism, entitlement.....OH MAI.

So there aren't always consequences to what a person says?

White folks and atheists aren't the ones in this thread arguing on the side of "Everybody Draw Muhammad Day?"

-Are these consequences always justified? ie. violence, murder
-I love how you brought race into this. smh...i'm not even gonna  go there.

No the consequences are not always justified, I never said that and I don't believe that.  However, do you want to deal with the world the way it is or the way you want it to be?

Do you really believe it is worth it to offend tens, if not hundreds, of millions of people across the globe for the sake of asserting your right to insult someone and someone's beliefs?  Do you really expect someone who lives in a society that does not have freedom of speech to fully respect the freedom of speech of people halfway around the world who are deliberately insulting what they consider to be sacred?

As for race, why not go there?  Do you honestly think that racial dynamics have nothing to do with where one stands on this issue?

I never said all that but I just don't think race needed to be brought into this discussion. That is all.



-BDW I think the West and the Islamic world are opposite spectra of the same evil....don't get it twisted.

 

[18th letter]

Originally Posted by lobotomybeats

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Imagine if Scientologists started murking people for drawing aliens.

That's be hilarious.  A bunch of rich people killing in the name of upping their OT Levels.  Aww, I feel sorry for Scientologist, actually.  In a world of 'your religion is nuttier than mine' they constantly unjustly lose.  



Wooly Willy, can you pass this along to appropriate parties?

Son really?

what is the point of posting this picture?

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by red mpls

Thank you Wooly Willy and Mo Matik.

People are just looking for an excuse to attack Islam.  Of course people have freedom of speech, but there are ALWAYS consequences to what a person says or how they express themselves.

It seems to me that white folks, with their sense of entitlement, are the only people who fail to grasp this basic fact of life.  It's like they refuse to believe that they can't control someone's reaction to something... like they have the right to say anything they want without consequence.  Add atheists into the mix in this particular instance...

-White people, atheism, entitlement.....OH MAI.

So there aren't always consequences to what a person says?

White folks and atheists aren't the ones in this thread arguing on the side of "Everybody Draw Muhammad Day?"

-Are these consequences always justified? ie. violence, murder
-I love how you brought race into this. smh...i'm not even gonna  go there.

No the consequences are not always justified, I never said that and I don't believe that.  However, do you want to deal with the world the way it is or the way you want it to be?

Do you really believe it is worth it to offend tens, if not hundreds, of millions of people across the globe for the sake of asserting your right to insult someone and someone's beliefs?  Do you really expect someone who lives in a society that does not have freedom of speech to fully respect the freedom of speech of people halfway around the world who are deliberately insulting what they consider to be sacred?

As for race, why not go there?  Do you honestly think that racial dynamics have nothing to do with where one stands on this issue?

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by DunkeDinSaucE

[h3]"Whenyou attack black people, they call it racism. When you attack Jewishpeople, they call it anti-semetism. When you attack women, they call itsexism. When you attack homosexuality, they call it intolerance. Whenyou attack your country, they call it treason. When you attack areligious sect, they call it hate speech. But when you attack the Prophet (peace be upon him), they want to call it freedom of speech"
[/h3]Look my dude, by all means believe what you want, but going around and disrespecting peoples beliefs is ignorant. If you wanna draw mohammad go ahead, but when you go publishing it to get a response or to irk a people it puts you in a position of responsibility.

Just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean you get a pass to piss all over it.

LOL.....ok that's all well and good. But if someone calls me a n***** I'm not going to plant a bomb/kidnap and behead people in retaliation. Again, people are missing the point.

Are you going to do nothing?

lol....no. Clearly an *** whooping is in order. No one ever calls me that to my face tho.....I'm a tall, big terrifying looking black dude. I'm not killing anyone for calling me that tho.

 

[f a y b a n]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by DunkeDinSaucE

[h3]"Whenyou attack black people, they call it racism. When you attack Jewishpeople, they call it anti-semetism. When you attack women, they call itsexism. When you attack homosexuality, they call it intolerance. Whenyou attack your country, they call it treason. When you attack areligious sect, they call it hate speech. But when you attack the Prophet (peace be upon him), they want to call it freedom of speech"
[/h3]Look my dude, by all means believe what you want, but going around and disrespecting peoples beliefs is ignorant. If you wanna draw mohammad go ahead, but when you go publishing it to get a response or to irk a people it puts you in a position of responsibility.

Just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean you get a pass to piss all over it.

LOL.....ok that's all well and good. But if someone calls me a n***** I'm not going to plant a bomb/kidnap and behead people in retaliation. Again, people are missing the point.

I honestly don't think you have these kinds of conversations amongst a wide swath of people in public.  Do you chill with Muslims that are offended and hit them with "Hey, you can call me N' as much as you want.  See, no big deal."  
These extremists are claiming a religious war, where a foreign enemy is occupying their countries.  This isn't an isolated issue of freedom of speech, this is the representation of how "some" Americans feel Islam should be treated.  I don't know what type of message that's supposed to send, but I doubt they're going to reply in kind when they already think that country has it out for them.  Have you read or heard stories about "The Narrative."  This is the best tangent to elaborate on it to legitimately claim that these nations have no respect for the Muslim faith.  This is how the line is blurred between American Muslims and those fighting "for the cause", because that narrative is reinforced by stuff like this.

The right to offend isn't worth putting the lives of the armed services abroad in danger.

 

[hellomarco]

IMO it doesn't really matter what's written on your precious "holy" book or what you tell your god when you pray. what matters the most is THE REALITY we experience.

but if you still insist,

 

[wooly willy]

This thread has taken a wild turn since I left

.

Anyways, just to get this thread back on track since this isn't a religion vs atheism thread but rather a thread about freedom of speech related "Everybody Draw Muhammad Day", let me post a great video a friend sent me earlier. This was the kind of informational campaign I was talking about earlier and is good to see that the organization that put this video together is exemplifying true Islamic character by not sinking to the level of these people looking to incite anger. Watch if you're interested. Otherwise, I'll leave you all (especially you lobotomybeats) with a great verse from the Qur'an

And servants of (Allah) the Most Gracious are those who walk on theearth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say, Peace(Salaam)! (25:63)

 

[btonnt]

.....I'm a tall, big terrifying looking black dude.

 

[hella handsome]

a lot of atheists are like flamboyant gay people... its like, ok we get it... you can stop trying so hard...

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by hella handsome

a lot of atheists are like flamboyant gay people... its like, ok we get it... you can stop trying so hard...

 

[canifly34]

The drawings of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) need to just stop. Its unnecessary in every way and causes nothing but &%# from everyones side.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by CanIFly34

The drawings of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) need to just stop. Its unnecessary in every way and causes nothing but &%# from everyones side.

 

[-Red-]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by red mpls

No the consequences are not always justified, I never said that and I don't believe that.  However, do you want to deal with the world the way it is or the way you want it to be?

Do you really believe it is worth it to offend tens, if not hundreds, of millions of people across the globe for the sake of asserting your right to insult someone and someone's beliefs?  Do you really expect someone who lives in a society that does not have freedom of speech to fully respect the freedom of speech of people halfway around the world who are deliberately insulting what they consider to be sacred?

As for race, why not go there?  Do you honestly think that racial dynamics have nothing to do with where one stands on this issue?

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by DunkeDinSaucE

[h3]"Whenyou attack black people, they call it racism. When you attack Jewishpeople, they call it anti-semetism. When you attack women, they call itsexism. When you attack homosexuality, they call it intolerance. Whenyou attack your country, they call it treason. When you attack areligious sect, they call it hate speech. But when you attack the Prophet (peace be upon him), they want to call it freedom of speech"
[/h3]Look my dude, by all means believe what you want, but going around and disrespecting peoples beliefs is ignorant. If you wanna draw mohammad go ahead, but when you go publishing it to get a response or to irk a people it puts you in a position of responsibility.

Just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean you get a pass to piss all over it.

LOL.....ok that's all well and good. But if someone calls me a n***** I'm not going to plant a bomb/kidnap and behead people in retaliation. Again, people are missing the point.

Are you going to do nothing?

lol....no. Clearly an *** whooping is in order. No one ever calls me that to my face tho.....I'm a tall, big terrifying looking black dude. I'm not killing anyone for calling me that tho.

So then it's not a matter of principle, as in "People should be able to say anything they want without thought of potential repercussion," it's more so a matter of scale, as in "No one should be killed for saying something deliberately offensive... but an !#* whooping might be called for."

If so, I essentially agree with this position.  My problem is that people are framing this as purely a "freedom of speech" issue as if they truly believe there should be NO consequences to how a person expresses themselves... and that is simply a refusal to deal with the world as it is... it's not even POSSIBLE.

The other side of this is the very one-dimensional, ethnocentric perspective from which many people are arguing... which is why I brought race into the subject because white people are afforded the luxury of not having to think about, and certainly not concern themselves with, people of other backgrounds' perspectives and experiences.

In addition to that, in a strange and hypocritical twist, atheists (or at least people who don't subscribe to a "religion") are arguing things in absolutes and from an ethnocentric perspective as opposed to a culturally relativistic perspective, yet this is the same thing that they are attacking Muslims and other people of faith for...