antonlavey
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^^^I'm not an atheist....I'm a strict agnostic. I'm not an atheist for that very reason...atheists and religious folks both argue absolutes.
Atheists: Always doing the most?
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by antonlavey,
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antonlavey
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I'm still going to refrain from bringing race into this but I've already stated that the West and the "Islamic axis of evil" are opposite sides of the same evil. I'll just leave it at that.
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No, instead they murder others in the name of their own ego.
You can say your god is in the sky or is some concept or ideal you support, but the justification of murder is not exclusive to religion. Political justification has probably resulted in much more deaths in the past century than any religious thing. I'm not sure what the best term would be to encapsulate both... ideologues?
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I'm sure you've heard of Fair Game?
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I for one am a de facto athiest, meaning the probability of a God is very low, but short of zero. I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on that assumption that the he is not there.
"Atheists do not have faith; and reason alone could not propel one to total conviction that anything definitely does not exist."- Richard Dawkins.
I argue from the improability of a God and reason/logic. It still boggles my mind how you can without a doubt say that there is a man in the sky, honestly is completely goes against having common sense, yet religious folks will say that's why it's faith, yes I know, but it still boggles my mind. You have so many things to deter you away from believing in a God, yet people will say evolution etc isn't enough evidence. Of course you can't say for sure that there isn't a God( this goes back to the tea pot theory) but that still doesn't make him real.
At the end of the day, people will believe what they want to.
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100% agree with this. I was just about to post that the difference between atheists and religious people is not that one side uses facts and the other uses beliefs. It's just that one side believes it's impossible for there to be gods and the other side believe it's impossible for there not to be. Either way it comes down to believing in something.
Agnostic FTW, not just when it comes to religion but in all aspects of life.
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That's fine and all, however you choose to identify. But are you not attempting to push your understanding of right and wrong on all people across the world... that it is wrong to react to insults with violence (or more specifically murder since you are OK with other violent reactions)? How is this different than Islamic extremists pushing their belief that insulting depictions of the Prophet should be met with violence?
How do you justify or reconcile this? If that is not what you are arguing, then what are you arguing?
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antonlavey
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Anti-Gay Calif. Politician Cited for DUI--After Leaving Gay BarOriginally Posted by cartune
Sad but true
by Kilian Melloy
Thursday Mar 4, 2010
[table][tr][td][table][tr][td][table][tr][td]http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=&sc3=&id=103053/www.edgeboston.com/pop_email.php?ch=news&sc=&sc3=&id=103053">http://www.edgeboston.com...=&sc3=&id=103053','','menubar=no,width=400,height=400')">
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[/td][/tr][tr][td]Roy Ashburn [/td][/tr][/table][table][tr][td]
http:///www.edgeboston.com/pop_email.php?ch=news&sc=&sc3=&id=103053">http://www.edgeboston.com...=&sc3=&id=103053','','menubar=no,width=400,height=400')" title="Email to a friend">
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An anti-gay California state senator was placed under arrest for drunk driving after leaving a gay bar. A male passenger was in the vehicle along with the lawmaker was not arrested, reported Sacramento CBS affiliate Channel 13.
State Sen. Roy Ashburn was pulled over by the California Highway Patrol at about 2:00 a.m. on March 3 when his state-issued vehicle was observed being driven erratically. The driver, identified as Ashburn, was taken in and charged for driving under the influence. Channel 13 reported that unidentified sources said the senator had been at Faces, a popular gay nightspot, prior to his arrest.
In a March 4 article, the online news site Talking Points Memo characterized Ashburn, who is married and has four children, as "a fierce opponent of gay rights" who had led anti-marriage equality rallies.
Ashburn issued a contrite apology, stating, "I am deeply sorry for my actions and offer no excuse for my poor judgment. I accept complete responsibility for my conduct and am prepared to accept the consequences for what I did."
Ashburn will not be able to drive for a month and the vehicle he was in at the time of his arrest has been impounded, reported online news site Bakersfield.com on March 3. If the state senator receives the same penalties as do others arrested for drunk driving, the article said, Ashburn could face three years of probation, fines of up to $1,000, attendance at a "DUI offender program," and two days’ jail time.
It is uncertain how the arrest--or his reported presence at a gay bar--will affect Ashburn’s prospects for re-election. He already faces a fellow Republican for in the upcoming race for the seat he occupies in the state senate.
Anti-gay lawmakers who are alleged to engage in sexual activity with members of their own gender have attracted significant media attention in recent years. Among the high-profile cases in lawmakers with records of voting against gay equality measures is the arrest of former Idaho Sen. Larry Craig, who was charged with soliciting another man for sex in an airport restroom, and a 2006 scandal involving Republican Sen. Mark Foley, who allegedly exchanged sexually charged text messages with teenaged male pages and young men who had formerly been pages. A 2009 documentary titled Outrage noted that rumors have long swirled around Florida governor Charlie Crist, who supported a successful ballot initiative to amend the state’s constitution in a way that bars marriage equality for gay and lesbian families. The film also traced the careers of other anti-gay politicians rumored to be closeted gays themselves, such as Republican Congressman David Drier, a California representative.
In California, marriage equality was legal for six months in 2008, until voters narrowly approved Proposition 8, which rescinded marriage rights for gays, in November of that year.
antonlavey
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^^^^A lot of religious/conservatives are closet homosexuals
antonlavey
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BDW I'm a pacifist....I've been in like a total of maybe 3 fights in my life. My friend's know to not drunkenly pick fights with people when we go out cause I won't back them up fighting over some dumb $$#. When i said I'd kick someone's butt for calling me the N word (which is wrong bdw), I wasn't justifying the murder as a retaliation for drawing a picture of muhammad.
I DEBATED POSTING GRAPHIC IMAGES OF THE AFTERMATH OF SUICIDE BOMBINGS JUST TO PROVE A POINT.....
antonlavey
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If a Muslim was personally offended by this I would respect them more if they took the less cowardly form of retaliation and came at me like a man.
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You are still not addressing my questions.Originally Posted by AntonLaVey
BDW I'm a pacifist....I've been in like a total of maybe 3 fights in my life. My friend's know to not drunkenly pick fights with people when we go out cause I won't back them up fighting over some dumb $$#. When i said I'd kick someone's butt for calling me the N word (which is wrong bdw), I wasn't justifying the murder as a retaliation for drawing a picture of muhammad.
I DEBATED POSTING GRAPHIC IMAGES OF THE AFTERMATH OF SUICIDE BOMBINGS JUST TO PROVE A POINT.....
You are still failing to take into account any perspective but your own. You are operating solely on YOUR definitions of "respect," "cowardly," and "like a man" without considering that the definitions of these concepts may be very different for other people. Do you not see a problem with this?
antonlavey
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^^^Maybe cause i'm not sure WTH you're asking.
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Originally Posted by AntonLaVey
^^^^A lot of religious/conservatives are closet homosexuals
antonlavey
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Originally Posted by red mpls
You are still not addressing my questions.Originally Posted by AntonLaVey
BDW I'm a pacifist....I've been in like a total of maybe 3 fights in my life. My friend's know to not drunkenly pick fights with people when we go out cause I won't back them up fighting over some dumb $$#. When i said I'd kick someone's butt for calling me the N word (which is wrong bdw), I wasn't justifying the murder as a retaliation for drawing a picture of muhammad.
I DEBATED POSTING GRAPHIC IMAGES OF THE AFTERMATH OF SUICIDE BOMBINGS JUST TO PROVE A POINT.....
You are still failing to take into account any perspective but your own. You are operating solely on YOUR definitions of "respect," "cowardly," and "like a man" without considering that the definitions of these concepts may be very different for other people. Do you not see a problem with this?
DUDE I'M A PUT IT IN BLACK AND WHITE FOR YOU YOU'RE DEFINITELY TRIVIALIZING THIS
Thou shall not kill unless in self-defense is one of my core beliefs. I don't even believe in killing animals for sport. Let's end this, you're giving me a headache.
antonlavey
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Son the number of these guys that have been getting caught doing gay @#$@ lately has been comedy to say the leastOriginally Posted by ShaunHillFTW49
Originally Posted by AntonLaVey
^^^^A lot of religious/conservatives are closet homosexuals
They go to extreme lengths to prove their manliness.
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Anton, none of these people will get your point because they don't want to.
Every single one of your posts could be: "How do these things justify murder of innocent people"? and they still wouldn't answer or side with you....Might as well end it...
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If you don't believe in a God, you will be cast into a fiery hell forever. Sounds like a good guy to me....
Every single one of your posts could be: "How do these things justify murder of innocent people"? and they still wouldn't answer or side with you....Might as well end it...
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If you don't believe in a God, you will be cast into a fiery hell forever. Sounds like a good guy to me....
antonlavey
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The point I was trying to make in this thread is actually a very straight-foward and simple. NT managed to trivialize it beyond recognition. This thread has nothing to do with religion if you think about it.
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Exactly. Cause admit the little devil heathen made even 1% of sense would blow their brains out. (No Muhammad Drawing Retaliation)
antonlavey
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LOL I've actually said some good things about certain types of religious people in this thread and have pointed out several times in both threads that this doesn't apply to all muslims (just the extremists). I went as far as saying most Muslim people i know personally don't support this bull%%##. I can't win.Originally Posted by F A Y B A N
Yeah right. He doesn't have a point. He wants to lump all religious folks together and characterize them based on their worst elements. Most people don't believe in casting aspersions on the whole when only the few are responsible for the negative connotations associated with that particular group.
This thread wasn't a good look for Muslims who strive not to be lumped in the same group as those people. Several people have in this thread have tried to make excuses for them. smh X 100000
My boy from college who posted the link to that draw muhammad day is an Indian Muslim
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I'm not trivializing ##!% fam. You're attempting to over-simplify things that are not "BLACK AND WHITE" as you put it.Originally Posted by AntonLaVey
Originally Posted by red mpls
You are still not addressing my questions.Originally Posted by AntonLaVey
BDW I'm a pacifist....I've been in like a total of maybe 3 fights in my life. My friend's know to not drunkenly pick fights with people when we go out cause I won't back them up fighting over some dumb $$#. When i said I'd kick someone's butt for calling me the N word (which is wrong bdw), I wasn't justifying the murder as a retaliation for drawing a picture of muhammad.
I DEBATED POSTING GRAPHIC IMAGES OF THE AFTERMATH OF SUICIDE BOMBINGS JUST TO PROVE A POINT.....
You are still failing to take into account any perspective but your own. You are operating solely on YOUR definitions of "respect," "cowardly," and "like a man" without considering that the definitions of these concepts may be very different for other people. Do you not see a problem with this?
DUDE I'M A PUT IT IN BLACK AND WHITE FOR YOU YOU'RE DEFINITELY TRIVIALIZING THIS
Thou shall not kill unless in self-defense is one of my core beliefs. I don't even believe in killing animals for sport. Let's end this, you're giving me a headache.
If you can't engage in meaningful discourse without getting a headache then maybe you shouldn't start threads like this in the future.
The following are all questions I have posed to you in this thread and you have responded to NONE of them:
- So there aren't always consequences to what a person says?
- White folks and atheists aren't the ones in this thread arguing on the side of "Everybody Draw Muhammad Day?"
- Do you want to deal with the world the way it is or the way you want it to be?
- Do you really believe it is worth it to offend tens, if not hundreds, of millions of people across the globe for the sake of asserting your right to insult someone and someone's beliefs?
- Do you really expect someone who lives in a society that does not have freedom of speech to fully respect the freedom of speech of people halfway around the world who are deliberately insulting what they consider to be sacred?
- As for race, why not go there? Do you honestly think that racial dynamics have nothing to do with where one stands on this issue?
- So then it's not a matter of principle, as in "People should be able to say anything they want without thought of potential repercussion," it's more so a matter of scale, as in "No one should be killed for saying something deliberately offensive... but an !#* whooping might be called for."
- Are you not attempting to push your understanding of right and wrong on all people across the world... that it is wrong to react to insults with violence (or more specifically murder since you are OK with other violent reactions)?
- How is this different than Islamic extremists pushing their belief that insulting depictions of the Prophet should be met with violence?
- How do you justify or reconcile this? If that is not what you are arguing, then what are you arguing?
- Do you not see a problem with operating solely on YOUR own definitions of "respect," "cowardly," and "like a man" without considering that these concepts may be very different for other people?
I NEVER ONCE excused or co-signed anyone taking anyone else's in response to Everyone Draw Muhammd Day or anything else. In fact, I explicitly stated that I do not feel murderous reactions are justified. What I attempted to do was stimulate dialogue that will hopefully lead to an increased ability to engage in meaningful dialogue that will facilitate greater inter-cultural, -religious, -spiritual, -personal awareness and understanding. Apparently, some people would rather not think about such matters...
Where have I argued that the murder of innocent people is justified? Actually, I don't remember anyone in this thread doing so.
However, if you think that these issues end there and that is the only question that needs to be asked and considered then you have a pitiful understanding of the world...
antonlavey
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antonlavey
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Lemme cliff notes everything i've tried to tell you
-MURDER is never justified, except in the case of self-defense.
-Race=i know why you're tryna bring this up but i simply don't wanna go there....I've already said it like 4 times in this thread the West and the "Islamic axis of evil" are both in the wrong. Ironically I'm a staunch critic of Isreal.
-MURDER is never justified, except in the case of self-defense.
-Race=i know why you're tryna bring this up but i simply don't wanna go there....I've already said it like 4 times in this thread the West and the "Islamic axis of evil" are both in the wrong. Ironically I'm a staunch critic of Isreal.
