Beans > Bigggie

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First off, I'm a writer, if you are not a reader -- don't get mad at me. Yes my post is long. It's meant to analyze 13 years of history, what'dyou expect? Anything less than 2 pages wouldn't be fitting for adressing issues about the "King of New York", right?

Spoiler [+]
I feel like Big gets surplus hype and Beans gets overlooked by the same amount of people. Biggie is pretty good, but I'm not that impressed. He's like Penny Hardaway (my former favorite player) to me. Yeah, clearly he was on his way to greatness, but he never quite got there to me. And when I did get a chance to see greatness develope in Kobe, I was able to look back and understand that you can't put nearlyy as much weight on potential as I previously thought. But this thread isn't explicity a Beans > Biggie argument. I'm about to explain why although Biggie is a damn good rapper, he was never the GOAT MC to me.



I know how NY biased this forum is, so this WILL start a war, but I'm about to be honest.



Biggie is the 90s version of Young Jeezy. But before you go off yapping about Biggie being "lyrical" (hate that word), read this:

I remember thinking Jeezy was the 2000's Tupac because he, unlike any other rapper at the time, had a SOLID grip on people's attention spans. The hood was following Jeezy to death back in 05.He was the voice of every black dude I knew. Look how that turned out. IMO, he's not even important anymore. He sounds different now. It's not the same message or the same delivery that captivated the hood. He doesn't sound like he's "in" the game. He sounds like he's "from" the game -- like Jay-Z in a way, except it worked out in Jigga's favor. It's the difference you get when comparing Reasonable Doubt to The Blueprint. I like BP much more because it tells a complete story, before and after, not just the rising action of the plot. But, Jeezy isn't nearly as good of a story teller, so I preferred him back when I could still believe he was "in" the game. It's easier to tell the "truth" as it's happening than it is to recall it later. That's why I like Gucci right now. But I digress.. I also want to note, and I'm staring at Lupe when I type this... story telling is easy. Very easy. if you are as creative as Big, or Lupe, or Jay (or even me) it ain't that hard to make up a story and make it rhyme. So "I got a story to tell" and other songs (and albums like The Cool) don't really impress me. It's MUCH harder to make real life rhyme, while recounting actual events that other people would relate to (hence, F&L >>> The Cool).

Biggie had all the making's of a star. He had the appeal, the voice (I hate it personally, but the consensus is that it's dope), and the flow (unquestionable flow
). His lyrics are a bit on the surface though. He's a throwback Lil' Wayne in that his wit lies in his ability to simplify brilliance. He's no Lupe. He doesn't compound creativity and layer his rhymes beneath the surface (which I too tire of at times. No one style is perfect in my eyes). He makes quick, catchy,
-type rhymes that make you think for a split second, then nod in approval..

I like Beans because he doesn't rely on "word-trickery". Word-trickery is what happens when you confuse lyricism with cleverness. Lil Wayne is clever. Lightbuld do indeed ge hot, so "hot like light" is clever. Case & point. So yeah... Biggie was clever too. And as far as rhyme styles go, Tupac wasn't. Tupac sacrificed being clever for a higher purpose - being REAL (defined in this sense as "relating to the common man and his issues") and passionate about it. Beans doesn't make the same sacrifice. Beans has all three qualities. Whereas Biggie is VERY clever in the way he rhymes, to me it takes away from his music at times because bars get "wasted" on ++%% that sounds clever but has no real significance or substantial message (Wayne is the poster child for this
). I'm not saying all music has to be important (I did say I was a Gucci fan,. right?), but to be considered the greatest at a craft grounded in reality and self-expression when your best songs are "just entertainment", is blasphemy to me. My favorite Beans' songs use cleverness to deliver realness through passion. My favorite Biggie songs are witty. I wouldn't live by them though. I live by alot of the things I learn from my favorite Jay-Z song (Never Change) or even Eminem's songs (I.E. Rock Bottom).

So in conclusion, though Biggie may be one of the craftiest, wittiest, clever-est __s to ever grace the stage...... all he did was entertain. He didn't do much in the form of inspiring, enlightening, or affecting lives. He just made __s heads nod ferociously, for what it's worth.

Big is just a musician to me.. he never transcended that.
 
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There's a lot wrong here. You thinking Jeezy was the 2000s Pac, you calling Biggie a musician
maybe you mean artist. As far as I'm concerned Beans is great but hedoesn't have what it takes to consistently combine great music with great lyricism. He had something with The B. Coming but The Solution was trash.

Word-trickery is a part of rap before Big and after. Being clever in your rhymes is appreciated.

I swear all these Big/Wu threads are giving me a good laugh. I don't understand how some of the same ppl can give their same opinion on a certain artistover years on this forum. Moreover, it's getting tired ppl re-evaluating or trying to over analyze their perspective on Biggie. The more years we aredistanced from that time in hip hop the more skewed shh is gonna be.

At the end of the day its your opinion and you obviously value other aspects of rap more than others and that's cool.
 
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first of all Rilla great read
.....your views and points are well articulated and it made a lot of sense inregards to your arguement....HOWEVER

I have to kindly dissagree sir and I'm a huge Beanz fan.....

We all know Big was taken from us before he was really able to evolve and I feel if he was still here would still be consistently in the top discussions....

Sigel has not been taken from us but he has feel me?!? Like where is Beanz? I heard a few new joints from Beanz and I miss dude no mo...."I should've played BIG but it's all Gravy"


Regardless to how others might feel this is a compelling arguement....a lot would say they are very similar....I would have to side with Big because of what hedid for the game in such a short time frame....When you heard Big he grabbed you by your neck and made you listen and told some of the best stories in the gameever....Nothing to live by, besides 10 Crack Commandments if you was hustlin, but I hear you on that part of your arguement...Big IMO is not the GOAT but asyou stated a Damn Good Rapper!! DAMN GOOD!!!

All and all this is a hard comparison to make based on Big's timespan in the game compared to Sigel's...I know it's cliche` but if Big was stillalive is this an arguement we would be having?!? As groundbreaking as Big was as far as his flow and delivery and making simple things sound far fetched makeshim better IMO but like I said Rilla this was a great read and thank you for helping me through work
 
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Originally Posted by iHateTimeDotCom

biggie is the greatest of all time... its a proven fact...




of course thats only on NT
You my __ time. Yo, PM me a cell number. We need to speak today.
 
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Originally Posted by DearWinter219

Originally Posted by Master Zik

There's a lot wrong here.
Nothing is wrong, it's all opinion broseph. I'm just speaking for the minority here.
Obviously a lot being wrong here is my opinion.
 

chi ill

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Originally Posted by iHateTimeDotCom

biggie is the greatest of all time... its a proven fact...




of course thats only on NT


I've never seen the hype either , I mean he was a good rapper , but ...

I think all the B.I.G. love just comes from his death .


Jay >
Flame suit on .
 

m16

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Originally Posted by iHateTimeDotCom

biggie is the greatest of all time... its a proven fact... but I'm not mad if you put him 2nd to Jay-Z




of course thats only on NT
 
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Short answer: No.

Biggie had a presence on the mic that Beans could only dream to have. Biggie had "it", which is something 99.9% of rappers just don't have.

And please tell me how Biggie never transcended being a musician, yet somehow Beans did...
 
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hmm...

You've let youre views on Big be known since I been on here, and Im not saying I take youre opinion w/ a grain of salt (cuz I understand what you sayincompletely, I actually use the exact same arguement w/ another rapper you mentioned, and do agree with 1-2 points)...but I think its a case where you hearingwhat you wanna hear, or just havent really listened to his music (probably wrong, but I just assume the latter, cuz it sound like you judging his singles). Hisbest songs aint "just entertainment", his biggest songs are...which he damn near laid the formula for.

Cuz I just feel, you cant in one breathe say "he aint got songs I could live by", then go on to list the songs you did. The second verse to'Ready To Die' is one of the select handful of songs I would cut and paste to put together my life in music form, not another song that sumsup me from 14-17 better than that, maybe 'Slippin', Street Dreams Remix and thats it.

We all get different things outta music, so Im not knocking you (cuz I may look at 'Never Change' and think its a great record, but feel he aint sayina gotdamn thing he usually say, and that the production is what makes the record special).

As far as Beans is concerned, I feel he's probably the most talented/gifted MC ever, so....
 
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Originally Posted by Master Zik

Originally Posted by DearWinter219

Originally Posted by Master Zik

There's a lot wrong here.
Nothing is wrong, it's all opinion broseph. I'm just speaking for the minority here.
Obviously a lot being wrong here is my opinion.
Chill out. You know, that's reminiscent of a George Carlin joke I heard the other day. Fam was like "If we're all entitled to anopinion, then my opinion is that you shouldn't have an opinion" or some @@%+ like that.. kinda deep, innit?
 

m16

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Originally Posted by M16

Originally Posted by iHateTimeDotCom

biggie is the greatest of all time... its a proven fact... but I'm not mad if you put him 2nd to Jay-Z




of course thats only on NT



On some real though, BIG isn't even top 5 from Brooklyn for me.

edit: oops thought i was editing not making a new post
 
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Originally Posted by blazinjkid

Short answer: No.

Biggie had a presence on the mic that Beans could only dream to have. Biggie had "it", which is something 99.9% of rappers just don't have.

And please tell me how Biggie never transcended being a musician, yet somehow Beans did...
I'm not aware that I said, or even I implied that... so why would you ask me that question?
 
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Originally Posted by EzFlash26


hmm...

You've let youre views on Big be known since I been on here, and Im not saying I take youre opinion w/ a grain of salt (cuz I understand what you sayin completely, I actually use the exact same arguement w/ another rapper you mentioned, and do agree with 1-2 points)...but I think its a case where you hearing what you wanna hear, or just havent really listened to his music (probably wrong, but I just assume the latter, cuz it sound like you judging his singles). His best songs aint "just entertainment", his biggest songs are...which he damn near laid the formula for.

Cuz I just feel, you cant in one breathe say "he aint got songs I could live by", then go on to list the songs you did. The second verse to 'Ready To Die' is one of the select handful of songs I would cut and paste to put together my life in music form, not another song that sums up me from 14-17 better than that, maybe 'Slippin', Street Dreams Remix and thats it.

We all get different things outta music, so Im not knocking you (cuz I may look at 'Never Change' and think its a great record, but feel he aint sayin a gotdamn thing he usually say, and that the production is what makes the record special).

As far as Beans is concerned, I feel he's probably the most talented/gifted MC ever, so....
You might be right about me. I can't honestly say I'm able to step outside of my own shoes well enough to examine the dirt on their soles. That'spretty much all of us on NT though. I'm just one of the few that will admit it. I don't have nearly as much knowledge of Big as I used to. Once Irealized the things I've posted, around the onset of 6th grade (2000), I lost interest in Big. It didn't take long for me to "forget" aboutBig after he died. Hell, The Blueprint dropped the following year
. I haven't taken a good look back in awhile.
 
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Originally Posted by DearWinter219

Originally Posted by Master Zik

Originally Posted by DearWinter219

Originally Posted by Master Zik

There's a lot wrong here.
Nothing is wrong, it's all opinion broseph. I'm just speaking for the minority here.
Obviously a lot being wrong here is my opinion.
Chill out. You know, that's reminiscent of a George Carlin joke I heard the other day. Fam was like "If we're all entitled to an opinion, then my opinion is that you shouldn't have an opinion" or some @@%+ like that.. kinda deep, innit?
That's what makes opinions so special. GeorgeCarlin
 
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most won't be able to objectively discuss this because especially in rap, a deceased person is kinda put on a higher pedestal.

didn't Jay have a line about "competin with ghosts" or something like that in reference to Big?

in any case, I'll have to ponder on it, as I think Beans is one of the best out, arguably better than Jay, and if he was on ANY other label he would getWAY more shine.
 
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As far as Jay-Z goes, to me he's everything Big isn't. He's what Big's fans want Chris to be. Their similarities are obvious enough.Ain't no use going into who "bit" who since Jay is older and was out before Big, but big blew up first. You can assume any number of things andstill not have any facts on the matter. Besides, since when do friends have to be "bite" just to resemble each other? Have we forgotten about thetrends of birds and their feathers? So I'd rather address their differences. For starters, Jay is his own puppet master. You have to respect that. Jay-Z isalso a brand name by all intents and purposes. Jay carried the Roc's name on his back. IMO, Bad Boy carried Big's name on Puff'sback. Big was made into a star. Jay made himself. There's nothing wrong with either per say, but for personal reasons I appreciate the latter. Jay is morethan music right now. Jay personifies achievement in life through hard work]. Big is another Star Search story. He's an American Idol winner. He'sentertainment. Big is what parents are afraid of
. He had talent, but all in all -- he was lucky to get a break. Jay-Z is actually a role model (sorta).Aside from the drug stories, you have to give him credit for making his dream a reality instead of just being the lucky (but talented) guy that stumbled acrossan exec. producer willing to take a gamble.
 
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I absolutely love Beans material...but if u aren't a die hard fan of the man his rap CAREER is easily forgetable...sorry to say
 
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