Business side of European Football? vol. no draft

[ziostilon]

another question i've got: How much does the wealth of a club have to do with the amount of funding you can put into your scouting & development?

in other words, won't rich teams still have a bigger chance of finding top-end talent and more resources to help them develop.

 

[downyboy]

These teams have often been established in their cities over a centuryago, so they are ingrained into the culture and identity of the city.
Biggest difference between american sports and international sports. Americans nowadays tend to be fans of a particular player, not the organization.

 

[Sinner]

Originally Posted by DownyBoy

These teams have often been established in their cities over a centuryago, so they are ingrained into the culture and identity of the city.

Biggest difference between american sports and international sports. Americans nowadays tend to be fans of a particular player, not the organization.


Thats basically it... For a lot of the European football fans, its pretty much ingrained into them out of the womb, to support their hometown club. I guess its also why these fans are much more passionate about their team than what we see from American teams.  They have 5-6 year-olds (even grown men) crying uncontrollably after their team get relegated to a lower-league at the end of the season.  You don't see that kind of an emotional-bond with American teams and their fans.  Yeah, the last-placed team doesn't get dropped down to Triple-A at the end of the season, but you get the picture.  

 

[marionthebarberian]

thats one thing I LOVE about non American fans, they always root for their home team.

unlike here, theres people that have favorite teams in each time zone.

 

[trelvis tha thrilla]

Originally Posted by marionthebarberian

thats one thing I LOVE about non American fans, they always root for their home team.

unlike here, theres people that have favorite teams in each time zone.

Yup. Got dudes rooting for the Lakers that havent stepped foot in California in their lifetime.

 

[bud dink]

the fans arent going anywhere their loyal from birth to casket, you wont see any teams changing names or moving cities. I think they retain their fans when they lose their stars because the fans dont know what to do when their gone, they love the team not the player wherein if lebron james left cleaveland for new york well you know.....

 

[carlos tevez]

European fans are smart too. Going into the season they each set specific goals and achieving them is considered a success in itself. For example, some teams and fans set their sights on simply surviving in the top division. Some teams set their sights on qualifying to the Champions League. Some aim at making the Europa League. Some aim at finishing in the top 10. Some aim at just beating their point total from the season before. There's always something to look forward to even if your supporting a small/mid-level club.

 

[nimfh]

Much like in American sports, scouting is impacted by the team's wealth, but it is not a decisive factor. Sevilla is regarded as the team with the best scouting services in Europe, unearthing hidden gems year after year despite a budget that's barely a quarter of Madrid's or Barça's. Madrid, on the other hand, has a pitiful scouting service and continually overpays for players (€15M for Albiol? Really?) to make up for its lack of consistent planning.

As Tevez just said, every fanbase here has a realistic set of expectations. In Spain Barça and Madrid fight for the championship, Sevilla, Valencia, At. Madrid and Villareal fight for the other two UCL spots and Deportivo, Mallorca, Espanyol and Athletic Bilbao try to get themselves a Top 8 placement that allows them to join the Europa League. These achievements are how the bar is set for success or failure. The rest of the teams know they're merely fighting for 42 points, the amount that makes relegation impossible.

 

[king beef]

It's CALLED DEBT MANCHESTER UNITED HAS PLENTY. Chances are if they don't find new owners to curb the debt, they won't be a top 10 team in the next 10 years. They don't have the money to pay for the transfers they have been making. The Ronaldo money vanished, they club is going broke........they went broke a long time ago. The just used loan money to pay for everything, it needs to stop.

 

[nimfh]

You do make a good point about the debt, but that has a lot more to do with the Glazers' mismanagement than it does with what most powerhouses consider normal business procedures. You should also recall that while most powerhouses do have loans and other debt, they show yearly benefits. The thing is, when a team such as Valencia or Girondins makes a splash on the ECL they have to decided whether they want to attempt it again the following year, and that usually involves taking on some debt in order to make roster moves. It's an all-in move: every round you advance, the prize money rises significantly. You get up to €11M for making it to the knockout round and making it to the title game gives you almost €30M. As you can see, if you win you pretty much make back whatever money you lost. Get knocked out early though and you're looking at unpaid debt along with athletic failure.

 

[ziostilon]

^^ so you get a hefty reward from the league for making it past a round?

 

[jch3]

Originally Posted by DownyBoy

These teams have often been established in their cities over a centuryago, so they are ingrained into the culture and identity of the city.

Biggest difference between american sports and international sports. Americans nowadays tend to be fans of a particular player, not the organization.

Agreed.

I think that the relegation aspect of European football is very intriguing. Every year we have at least 5 teams in every major sport who actually rather lose than win to increase their chances of a higher draft pick. There would be no "tanking" unless you want to lose a LOT of money.

 

[nimfh]

Yes, teams get paid for advancing past certain rounds. Barcelona made around €50M for winning the titles it won last year, and it could have been even more but the Spanish Cup does not grant any prize money.

I don't think relegation could be applied to American sports because the fanbases would just move on instead of supporting a crappy minor league team. Allegiances are much more fleeting in the US than they are in Europe, where you're pretty much raised to be a fan of a team and you go through thick and think with it. In my case, I am a season ticket holder of a Spanish 3rd Division soccer team and attend every single home game. When I was a little kid we played in La Liga and I've gone through 3 relegations and 2 promotions with the team. My grandparents hold season tickets, my great-grandparents held season tickets and everyone in the family supports the team no matter what, because it represents our hometown. Would it be easier to root for Barça or Espanyol, 1st Division teams that play right near us? Yes, but that isn't what makes a true fan.

 

[jch3]

Originally Posted by NIMFH

Yes, teams get paid for advancing past certain rounds. Barcelona made around €50M for winning the titles it won last year, and it could have been even more but the Spanish Cup does not grant any prize money.

I don't think relegation could be applied to American sports because the fanbases would just move on instead of supporting a crappy minor league team. Allegiances are much more fleeting in the US than they are in Europe, where you're pretty much raised to be a fan of a team and you go through thick and think with it. In my case, I am a season ticket holder of a Spanish 3rd Division soccer team and attend every single home game. When I was a little kid we played in La Liga and I've gone through 3 relegations and 2 promotions with the team. My grandparents hold season tickets, my great-grandparents held season tickets and everyone in the family supports the team no matter what, because it represents our hometown. Would it be easier to root for Barça or Espanyol, 1st Division teams that play right near us? Yes, but that isn't what makes a true fan.

Agreed.

It's a shame that American sports fans can't stick through thick and thin like European fans can.

 

[damnthosejs]

Originally Posted by SinnerP

Originally Posted by DownyBoy

These teams have often been established in their cities over a centuryago, so they are ingrained into the culture and identity of the city.

Biggest difference between american sports and international sports. Americans nowadays tend to be fans of a particular player, not the organization.

Thats basically it... For a lot of the European football fans, its pretty much ingrained into them out of the womb, to support their hometown club. I guess its also why these fans are much more passionate about their team than what we see from American teams.  They have 5-6 year-olds (even grown men) crying uncontrollably after their team get relegated to a lower-league at the end of the season.  You don't see that kind of an emotional-bond with American teams and their fans.  Yeah, the last-placed team doesn't get dropped down to Triple-A at the end of the season, but you get the picture.  


I hope they'd just demote the Clippers to NDBL.

Anyhow, I've been meaning to ask this question for a long time but I just didn't know who to ask. Thanks to this thread, I found out on how Real Madrid pays off those players.

 

[swyftdahoe]

Hey, to the 2 brainiacs (lol) in here, thanks! Super informative. I've always been a big soccer fan (in terms of playing my whole life and up to a pretty decent level in my province) but never watched it much.

 

[kidoopz]

Originally Posted by NIMFH

Yes, teams get paid for advancing past certain rounds. Barcelona made around €50M for winning the titles it won last year, and it could have been even more but the Spanish Cup does not grant any prize money.

I don't think relegation could be applied to American sports because the fanbases would just move on instead of supporting a crappy minor league team. Allegiances are much more fleeting in the US than they are in Europe, where you're pretty much raised to be a fan of a team and you go through thick and think with it. In my case, I am a season ticket holder of a Spanish 3rd Division soccer team and attend every single home game. When I was a little kid we played in La Liga and I've gone through 3 relegations and 2 promotions with the team. My grandparents hold season tickets, my great-grandparents held season tickets and everyone in the family supports the team no matter what, because it represents our hometown. Would it be easier to root for Barça or Espanyol, 1st Division teams that play right near us? Yes, but that isn't what makes a true fan.

Dude that is so dope.  That is why when someone asks me "Who is your fav club team," I can never give a definite answer b/c of the constant selling of a player or me not having any direct ties with a team. I first saw some highlights of Ronaldo on Lisbon and I became an instant fan.  Eventually following him to Manchester and Now love watching Nani play. A big time fan of Higuain as well. PSG when JAY JAY was on the team, Odemwingie is one of my fav players too but it's hard for me to catch Russian games lol.  So basically, I just follow who I like.
Your a true fan NIMFH.  I go to London often and I would find fewer West Ham supporters than Arsenal supporters. Matter a fact, it's scarce lol..

You, Tevez and others hit the nail on the head with the business aspect of European football.  Tv rights, sponsorships, selling and loaning of players.  I like the way it is at this point.

 

[carlos tevez]

Originally Posted by kidoopz

Originally Posted by NIMFH

Yes, teams get paid for advancing past certain rounds. Barcelona made around €50M for winning the titles it won last year, and it could have been even more but the Spanish Cup does not grant any prize money.

I don't think relegation could be applied to American sports because the fanbases would just move on instead of supporting a crappy minor league team. Allegiances are much more fleeting in the US than they are in Europe, where you're pretty much raised to be a fan of a team and you go through thick and think with it. In my case, I am a season ticket holder of a Spanish 3rd Division soccer team and attend every single home game. When I was a little kid we played in La Liga and I've gone through 3 relegations and 2 promotions with the team. My grandparents hold season tickets, my great-grandparents held season tickets and everyone in the family supports the team no matter what, because it represents our hometown. Would it be easier to root for Barça or Espanyol, 1st Division teams that play right near us? Yes, but that isn't what makes a true fan.

Dude that is so dope.  That is why when someone asks me "Who is your fav club team," I can never give a definite answer b/c of the constant selling of a player or me not having any direct ties with a team. I first saw some highlights of Ronaldo on Lisbon and I became an instant fan.  Eventually following him to Manchester and Now love watching Nani play. A big time fan of Higuain as well. PSG when JAY JAY was on the team, Odemwingie is one of my fav players too but it's hard for me to catch Russian games lol.  So basically, I just follow who I like.
Your a true fan NIMFH.  I go to London often and I would find fewer West Ham supporters than Arsenal supporters. Matter a fact, it's scarce lol..

You, Tevez and others hit the nail on the head with the business aspect of European football.  Tv rights, sponsorships, selling and loaning of players.  I like the way it is at this point.

I can tell you're a Super Eagles fan as you like to bring up Nigeria in almost every soccer thread

Nigeria really disappointed me in the ACN. It's hard to believe a team full of so much talent can perform so poorly. Nigeria were lucky to even make the WC as Tunisia just needed a draw to qualify but those fools lost badly in their final match. I'm not sure Lagerback can fix that team in 3-months and with no friendlies coming up but he cant be worse than Amodu

 

[nimfh]

I'm actually in the midst of writing a mini-essay on bandwagon fans for Fanscribe, a website I write for. I'll post an excerpt when I'm done.

 

[nimfh]

Sorry to monopolize the thread, but for those talking about the difference in team loyalties between European soccer and American sports, this might be interesting.

The first issue that catches the eye is that American fanbases give up on their team when the season is ostensibly going nowhere. You can’t really blame a Royals fan for tuning out halfway through the season when their squad has taken more beatings than a nerd in a juvenile detention center, right? After all, there’s always next season. Well, European fans don’t necessarily have next season. The danger of relegation eliminates tanking as a viable option and keeps the fans and the team on their heels at all times. Much more than in American sports, European teams always have something to play for. Always. Fans don’t stop supporting their team because they know most squads are in serious risk of bankruptcy if they’re relegated. The “play every game as if it could be your last

 

[nychiphophippo]

villareal gettin mentioned

my fav team aside from real haha

 

[trunks206]

Interesting article NIMFH but I feel like you left out a major "American Sport" which devoted fandom rivals that of European soccer....college sports(football, basketball, etc.) Everything that you praise European sports for having can be found here in the US with people's lifelong, often instilled, connection to their university.

I'm not trying to attack you or anything, I guess you may have been referring to major professional sports, but I'm just trying to give you another perspective on the issue. 

 

[nimfh]

Hey trunks206, you're exactly right and I appreciate your comment. It wasn't mentioned in the article partly because I chose to focus on professional sports, but mostly because college sports are too big a field to compare to a European club team. Each school has a gazillion teams and I felt like the comparison to a club team was unfair.

 

[hoosiers4life]

I think part of the attachment to a club comes from the sheer number of them, everyone has a local club in some division. I mean in London, which is obviously a very large example, but you have Arsenal, Tottenham, Fulham, Chelsea, West Ham, QPR, Crystal Palace, Millwall, Charlton Athletic, Barnet, and I'm sure at least one I missed that are professional. Granted they aren't all in the Premiership, but they are all professional clubs that have followings. Just think about England, there are about 100 professional clubs in that small area. There are only 30 teams in an American sports league, give or take a couple, spread out across the country. Like, for instance, I'm from Indiana so obviously I support the Pacers and Colts, but I could easily choose any baseball team, I'm fairly equidistant from Cincinnati, Chicago, St. Louis, Cleveland.

As far as a draft, clubs have youth teams that start at a very young age. I know in England a player has to live a certain distance from the club to be able to play for them until he is a certain age. This can be circumvented by the club buying a player's parents a house or the like, but I dont think its that often abused until a player turns 16, when he can sign a professional contract.

Where the big clubs have really gained is with the advent of a worldwide audience and merchandising, obviously people around the world want to become a fan of a good club. You can call me a glory hunter, bandwagoner, whatever, but if I saw an English person who chose to support the Royals or the Pirates, I would wonder why he choose them. This has enabled the big clubs (Arsenal, Barcelona, the like) to earn so much more money than the teams that don't have quite the worldwide fan base.

 

[xblaze23]

I heart Ashley Cole