Can We Talk About The Jay-Z/Dame/Beanie Situation? vol. !$%#+! Up or Necessary Evil

[Jordan8]

Blackballed? By who? People in power then aint even in power now.

Yall gotta stop thinking the "music business" is this one entity. You think the 1000s of record execs got together and said %%@@ Dame Dash?

If Dame was a real business saavy dude he would have "figured it out"

The fact he let Jay buy Rocawear without any equity tells me he's not a A class businessman. He was a hustler big difference

 

[blade br0wn]

Originally Posted by cartune

 Dame spazzing on everybody was the problem. Being in all the videos and ads dont mean nothing but he liked the cameras. Dame been about Dame since Day 1.
He wasnt even an artists he was a gotdamn music executive. How you all in the videos? You dont see Lyor in no videos, You dont see Doug Morris or Mike Kyser in no videos 

. 

I mean look at the roster on Roc A Fella compared to the roster Jay assembled after Roc A Fella. Clearly Dame was a weak link. If the fact Dame aint done nothing since the breakup isnt evidence enough.

It was stated by a couple of Rocafella artists that Dame was way more 'hands on' and more active than Jay was in most Roc-a-fella projects...



More so because Jay was still an artist as well, but Dame had his hand in almost every project it seemed...




And if it takes a man to use his celebrity to push a song by being in videos, then I don't really see a problem with all that...




Dame wasn't really the weak link IMO, at least not from what I've read and seen...




Yea, he was rude and abrasive at times, but if that what it takes to not get pushed around by these superior businesses that also have a hand in your ventures, and to make sure that your artists are straight, then I would seem ok with it...




On topic, I was never clear of the actual details/ behind the scenes talks that led to the break up, so I just chalked it up as a conflict of interest...

 

[illphillip]

Originally Posted by Epidemik The Great



Admittedly, I'm a Jay fan, but that didn't sway my decision that he did the right thing.

Sure it didn't.

I've spoken on this before on here. What happened between them is between them. My issue more so was all these so called "Jay Z/Rocafella" fans *$+%*!@% on Dame when the fallout happened.

Like, all these Jay stans chose sides in a beef that wasn't theirs.

If you a Jay fan, you damn sure should respect Dame for his role in making this movement happen. When cats like Combat Jack, who were actually there, say that with out Dame Dash there would be no Jay Z and no Rocafella, that should tell you something.

As for Dame and his business practices, well, it didn't seem like Jay had a problem with them when nobody knew who he was and those same business practices were helping his cause.

Then he gets to a certain point and turns flips on everyone for the same thing that helped make it all happen?

Business is business. Understood. But let's look at both sides of the coin.

 

[rezzurrectme]

Originally Posted by cguy610

It's not like these dudes are Jay's childhood friends or something.  

 

[mjsaver]

Bottom line, it never ends well....most of these so called big families eventually come to an ugly end.

I thought it was a big deal when i was younger but wth, did we expect them to grow old together like a married couple?

This is where you separate the entertainment from real life, Hov my dude but if all that Roc La Familia $#!) was true it wouldnt have ended like that...Thats not real family type #$% that went down.

If it really upset you it just means they had you fooled, thinking they were some type of brotherhood instead of some cats just trying to sell records and get rich.

 

[Jordan8]

True but where Im coming from is breakups happen all the time in business. If Dame was the brains of the operations he shoulda bounced back easily. Look at Diddy getting fired bounced back. LA Reid got fired bounced back.

Its almost algebraic how Jay post Dame = a successful music exec in multiple positions. Def Jam/Roc Nation/More records sold since Roc A Fella/Bigger star

Dame post Jay = a couple failures with the Black Roc thing/Currensy/etc.

How is that ignored?

 

[illfrozn]

Jay/Dame: I think Jay just reached a point where he thought Dame was running the business into the ground and his opinion lost it's value. I don't blame Jay for feeling that way, but his vindictiveness came out by becoming president of Def Jam and how he handled the whole Def Jam/Roc-A-Fella situation. Jay just reacted to Dame's actions, BUT that doesn't mean Jay has no responsibility to the destruction of the relationship.

Jay/Beans: Sigel wouldn't grow up while Jay was trying to mature his image. I understand Jay wanting to shy away from a connection to someone like that, especially as he became corporate Hov. However, he didn't cut ties with Beanie, he shooed him to the side and out of the light. If you're really done with someone because of their immaturity, release them from their contract, don't record music with them, tell them how you feel, and move on. This dude Jay never really moved on. So what, Beanie wants to record music with 50 Cent? Let that man live. He helped make you rich years ago, you put him on, it's over....let it go. It appears that Beanie never stopped having a brotherly love for Jay, but Jay stopped. According to Beans, the last straw was when at the grand opening of 40/40, Jay's bodyguard got physical with Beanie. So, Sigel went off in front of Jay's new corporate friends and never spoke with him since. That is a major screw up, but really, Jay never reached out again to him? I don't blame that being the straw that broke the camel's back for Jay, but if that's your "brother", you don't ever talk to him again?

Beanie's problem is that he thought him and Jay had a real bond and friendship going. I don't blame Beanie for expecting a helping hand, because I believe that Jay showed him that he should feel that way. If Jay didn't, then of course not, but no one can act like they didn't feel like they were all family during the Roc years. Why didn't Jay go see him when he was locked up? I think Beanie wouldn't heed to Jay's advice, so his road ended. However, that doesn't mean you stop communicating with someone unless they do you wrong personally or a blood sucker.

If you think about it, who has really changed since the Roc-A-Fella breakup? Jay. He didn't just mature, he moved past his old life completely. Yet, he mentions it when it can make him $$$. Example: Scarface said in an interview last month that he can't get Jay on the phone for months at a time. If it's not making Jay rich, he doesn't care about you or the situation.

Beanie needs to mature, but has his loyalty to people changed? No. Dame has humbled himself some because he had a major fall from grace. Has Jay humbled himself and accepted any of the blame? No.

Jay only cares about money. If that's all you care about in life, then yes, Jay is "winning". But if you are loyal and really care about others, then you recognize that Jay has some incredibly flawed characteristics. This dude Jay acts like he impregnated Donda West and brought Kanye to life. Dude didn't even want Kanye rapping yet I've never heard Jay himself mention that. I think Jay is an incredibly passive aggressive person, yet he keeps getting richer and living an incredibly great life (on paper), so no one ever looks at his flaws, and when he gets called out, he makes whoever called him out look silly because he reminds the viewer that he's making an incredible amount of money, is married to Beyonce, and is "above" everyone else. When he sees an opportunity to control the public's perception of him, he uses it to his full advantage. Smart? Yes. Right? Not always.

I mean look at the roster on Roc A Fella compared to the roster Jay assembled after Roc A Fella. Clearly Dame was a weak link. If the fact Dame aint done nothing since the breakup isnt evidence enough


This dude Jay had execs at Def Jam helping him, so why give him credit? If Dame and Jay both had a "building" like Def Jam behind them immediately post-Roc-A-Fella, I would give the upperhand to Dame. Dame burned too many bridges and too much money to assemble a real roster -- he was signing throw aways. Did we already forget that about Roc-La-Familia and Aztek? Just to name ONE of Jay's duds ...

 

[illphillip]

I don't think it's that simple. Certainly not "algebraic".

Jay was still a star. It's like having Magic Johnson as owner of the Dodgers. Who wouldn't want to be down with that program?

After their split, it almost was like you had to pick a side. And it would just be common logic what side to take given their stature and notoriety.

I also thought it was real interesting how Dame spazzing, which was BEFORE the Black Album release, came out so far down the line, after the split. As if to cast him in a certain light.

How instrumental has Kanye been to Jay's continued success? And who put Kanye on?

Black Roc was in no way, shape or form a failure. It sold very well for an independent release and had a great viral marketing campaign. Those weren't radio records.

As far as I can tell Currency benefited from his time with Dame. He was in limbo after Cash Money and is now on Warner. Creative Control was a great platform for Stalley. For Krit. For Joey Badass now.

As for what's happening with Currency and that album, I'll let the courts tell it.

As far as these "bounce backs", it's definitely a personality thing. Jay, Diddy, LA are all politicians. Hence the moves they make, the people they disassociate themselves with etc. Politics is so important in business.

Dame is a fighter. I'm a fighter.

I've had to learn how to become a politician for the sake of longevity. It happens.

 

[illphillip]

illfrozn makes some good points.

Again, Jay is a politician. Perfect guy for a job at a major label. Dame is a hustler.

Remember RocAFella was an indie label. Perfect environment for a hustler.

When they split, Dame started his own company. Jay went corporate.

So again, not exactly a fair comparison.

Dame may not have been blackballed, but you can tell there's some real dudes out here that the business ain't %#%%$+# with. Irv, Dame.


"I mean look at the roster on Roc A Fella compared to the roster Jay assembled after Roc A Fella. Clearly Dame was a weak link. If the fact Dame aint done nothing since the breakup isnt evidence enough"

So Jay, Kanye, Diplomats (Cam/Juelz solo), Beans and all of State Prop (Freeway/Young Guns solo), Clue etc don't match up with Jay Cole, Rita Ora and Willow Smith?

Because those are the artists I know of on Roc Nation as a LABEL.

Most of the artists they manage were already developed on their own.

 

[|A-Man|]

@ this still ending up in Music and then the paragraphs start coming in.

 

[epidemik the great]

Originally Posted by illphillip

Originally Posted by Epidemik The Great



Admittedly, I'm a Jay fan, but that didn't sway my decision that he did the right thing.

Sure it didn't.

I've spoken on this before on here. What happened between them is between them. My issue more so was all these so called "Jay Z/Rocafella" fans *$+%*!@% on Dame when the fallout happened.

Like, all these Jay stans chose sides in a beef that wasn't theirs.

If you a Jay fan, you damn sure should respect Dame for his role in making this movement happen. When cats like Combat Jack, who were actually there, say that with out Dame Dash there would be no Jay Z and no Rocafella, that should tell you something.

As for Dame and his business practices, well, it didn't seem like Jay had a problem with them when nobody knew who he was and those same business practices were helping his cause.

Then he gets to a certain point and turns flips on everyone for the same thing that helped make it all happen?

Business is business. Understood. But let's look at both sides of the coin.

dude, get off your A&R high horse...if you would've bothered to read the rest of the post I even stated that Dame basically started Roc-a-Fella out his trunk and made it what it was....i'm not ignorant to what Dame did to help them become the #1 rap label, i was strictly talking about the situation that i created this thread about......

 

[illphillip]

Originally Posted by Epidemik The Great

Originally Posted by illphillip

Originally Posted by Epidemik The Great



Admittedly, I'm a Jay fan, but that didn't sway my decision that he did the right thing.

Sure it didn't.

I've spoken on this before on here. What happened between them is between them. My issue more so was all these so called "Jay Z/Rocafella" fans *$+%*!@% on Dame when the fallout happened.

Like, all these Jay stans chose sides in a beef that wasn't theirs.

If you a Jay fan, you damn sure should respect Dame for his role in making this movement happen. When cats like Combat Jack, who were actually there, say that with out Dame Dash there would be no Jay Z and no Rocafella, that should tell you something.

As for Dame and his business practices, well, it didn't seem like Jay had a problem with them when nobody knew who he was and those same business practices were helping his cause.

Then he gets to a certain point and turns flips on everyone for the same thing that helped make it all happen?

Business is business. Understood. But let's look at both sides of the coin.

dude, get off your A&R high horse...if you would've bothered to read the rest of the post I even stated that Dame basically started Roc-a-Fella out his trunk and made it what it was....i'm not ignorant to what Dame did to help them become the #1 rap label, i was strictly talking about the situation that i created this thread about......

Truth hurts huh?

I do A&R? Word?

You know alot! And for the record, that cornball crossing out of words doesn't prevent people from still reading them.

You caught feelings from the first line. I stand by it. You can say it all you want. The rest didn't even apply to you directly. But apparently struck a nerve.

 

[illfrozn]

^I assume cartune is referring to Rick Ross, Young Jeezy, Rihanna, Ne-Yo, Lady Sovereign, Teairra Marí, Aztek (

), Tru-Life (

), N.O.R.E. (

) as well ...

 

[illphillip]

I believe Shakir signed Ross and Jeezy. Shakir also replaced Jay as head of the label when Jay stepped away, so the brother was clearly talented.

I do believe Jay had a strong hand with Rihanna which was a major WIN no doubt.

Ne-Yo I'm not sure about. The rest......

 

[illfrozn]

Originally Posted by illphillip

I believe Shakir signed Ross and Jeezy. Shakir also replaced Jay as head of the label when Jay stepped away, so the brother was clearly talented.

I do believe Jay had a strong hand with Rihanna which was a major WIN no doubt.

Ne-Yo I'm not sure about. The rest......

Oh definitely. I'm just saying...this dude Jay would gladly take credit for those artists, but as we all know, he didn't do any of this on his own ...

Oh yeah, how could I forget Uncle Murda?

Edit: Fabolous, Jadakiss, Nas all signed to DJ when he was president ...

 

[epidemik the great]

Originally Posted by illphillip

Originally Posted by Epidemik The Great

Originally Posted by illphillip


Sure it didn't.

I've spoken on this before on here. What happened between them is between them. My issue more so was all these so called "Jay Z/Rocafella" fans *$+%*!@% on Dame when the fallout happened.

Like, all these Jay stans chose sides in a beef that wasn't theirs.

If you a Jay fan, you damn sure should respect Dame for his role in making this movement happen. When cats like Combat Jack, who were actually there, say that with out Dame Dash there would be no Jay Z and no Rocafella, that should tell you something.

As for Dame and his business practices, well, it didn't seem like Jay had a problem with them when nobody knew who he was and those same business practices were helping his cause.

Then he gets to a certain point and turns flips on everyone for the same thing that helped make it all happen?

Business is business. Understood. But let's look at both sides of the coin.

dude, get off your A&R high horse...if you would've bothered to read the rest of the post I even stated that Dame basically started Roc-a-Fella out his trunk and made it what it was....i'm not ignorant to what Dame did to help them become the #1 rap label, i was strictly talking about the situation that i created this thread about......

Truth hurts huh?

I do A&R? Word?

You know alot! And for the record, that cornball crossing out of words doesn't prevent people from still reading them.

You caught feelings from the first line. I stand by it. You can say it all you want. The rest didn't even apply to you directly. But apparently struck a nerve.

typical elementary response...you come into every thread and find something to try to pick apart just so you can spew your %!$%@$%$...i caught feelings??? ****outtahere...you hold way too much importance of yourself over the internet...

 

[illphillip]

^^^

All 3 of those had also been on labels before and had some degree of success before they got to IDJ.

If you look at the Roc roster, you could really only say that about Diplomats.

I won't deny that Jay had a hand in the success of those artists. I am not trying to knock Jay at all. He is clearly successful and we can all learn a lot from him.

I'm just responding to some of the statements being made in the thread directed at Dame and trying to show a little balance here.

 

[imstillmike]

alot of politics in here

 

[illphillip]

Originally Posted by Epidemik The Great

Originally Posted by illphillip

Originally Posted by Epidemik The Great

dude, get off your A&R high horse...if you would've bothered to read the rest of the post I even stated that Dame basically started Roc-a-Fella out his trunk and made it what it was....i'm not ignorant to what Dame did to help them become the #1 rap label, i was strictly talking about the situation that i created this thread about......

Truth hurts huh?

I do A&R? Word?

You know alot! And for the record, that cornball crossing out of words doesn't prevent people from still reading them.

You caught feelings from the first line. I stand by it. You can say it all you want. The rest didn't even apply to you directly. But apparently struck a nerve.

typical elementary response...you come into every thread and find something to try to pick apart just so you can spew your %!$%@$%$...i caught feelings??? ****outtahere...you hold way too much importance of yourself over the internet...

Your response was equally brilliant. I "hold way too much importance of (myself) over the internet"? OK.

You apparently thought what I said was "important" enough that you went through the trouble of crossing it out and responding to it with great fervor. Even using a word like "importance" in this context says more about you than it does about me.

It's a message board. I'm pretty sure going into threads and commenting on things, whether I agree or disagree, is par for the course. No?

You in here cursing up a storm. So yea, you seem to have caught feelings. We've moved on dog. Join us.

 

[epidemik the great]

writing paragraphs, yet "we've moved on." okay 

back to the thread, dude that said that Bleek was heavy in the streets, could you elaborate a little on that...i feel that might be a false accusation seeing as that's relative to the reasons he parted ways with Biggs and Beans...

 

[Maximus Meridius]

#@#@ you squares, the circle got smaller
The castle got bigger, the walls got taller
And truth be told after all that said
_'s still got love for ya

 

 

 

[illphillip]

Paragraphs? okay!

4 lines is "paragraphs"? Where'd you go to school?

Sweet GIF. Great substitute for words.

Back to the thread (before the Bleek in the streets discussion starts....).

One thing I wanted to correct. Maybe Puff isn't the best model of a politician.

I just got my haircut and my barber has floated around the industry for a bit. Talked to him about this.

He did note that early days Puff was no politician. From his notorious rants to running up in Steve Stoute's office.

Maybe Puff was smarter about who to rant on and who to piss off and who not to. I'm surprised there wasn't more fallout from the Steve situation.

He has apparently calmed down since but Jay and LA definitely fit that description moreso.

And ultimately, Dame not being a good politician worked great in the short term, but hurt him long term. There is a great lesson in that.

 

[brandon3000]

Originally Posted by cguy610

It's not like these dudes are Jay's childhood friends or something.  

 

[epidemik the great]

Originally Posted by Brandon3000

Originally Posted by cguy610

It's not like these dudes are Jay's childhood friends or something.  

what about Jaz-O??? 

 

[solarius49]

Epidemik The Great wrote:
back to the thread, dude that said that Bleek was heavy in the streets, could you elaborate a little on that...i feel that might be a false accusation seeing as that's relative to the reasons he parted ways with Biggs and Beans...


I dont know that for a fact, thats just what I've been told by some people.  I dont wanna turn this into a street cred thread either....but I kinda liken it to Tony Yayo/50 Cent's relationship, just with far less jail time.  And when I say being heavy in the streets im talking about pushing weight, not running around with army guns like Beans