Colin Kaepernick Is Righter Than You Know

[RustyShackleford]

The irony of posting a libertarian argument when that group believes the biggest recent government overreach is Article Two of the Civil Rights Act

well jeez lets just nitpick nitpick nitpick

brb going to find the perfect argument that perfectly meets Rusty's "purity test" you so fond of

Dude relax.

I just pointed out something humorous, that is all. I didn't attack your source, I didn't even attack the argument made in the source even though I disagree with it.

For some strange reason, if someone on NT used libertarian ideology to argue against anti-discrimination laws for private businesses, I'm sure your reaction wouldn't be very mild.

i didn't purity test you're post. I Just pointed out the irony of someone like you using libertarian talking points to make an argument.

 

[RustyShackleford]

the facetiousness is annoying

people acting like voting is a magic wand

people pretending like this entire system isnt slanted

and im not even advocating against voting per se, but for some thats not good enough

Strawman argument on top of strawman argument.

 

[hand2handking]

on top of i wasnt making an argument, i was givin my opinion of the temperature of the thread

and as far as libertarian politics, i dont have to agree with every instance of it in every situation

the guy asked for argument and i provided one, which he didnt accept

 

[lightweight champion]

You don't have to be a politician to draft a proposition that makes it on the ballot to be voted on.

You don't have to be a politician to run for a political office.

The system isn't perfect but it can one day be an even playing field. But, public voting is an absolute necessity.

 

[Belgium]

Please aware us of the benefit of not voting... Anyone. Please sell us on why not voting is beneficial to driving change.

Not sure why this is even an argument.

Voting doesn't mean the parties will act in your best interest, but voting for some breadcrumbs or preventing huge setbacks will always beat not voting.

Not voting doesn't accomplish anything. The only benefit I could ever see is if one large group stopped voting in large numbers, forcing the party to cater to their interests to get them back. That's not a realistic goal though.

 

[JPS]

man y'all successfully derailed the thread with your petty arguments.

unite? y'all can't even respectfully discuss things

 

[Proposition Joe]

Waste of time. Just as it was us Californians electing only the 2nd black female senator in history in Kamala Harris last week as well. Should have let her know she's eating her time to abs don't worry about fighting for our interests.

So what would you say about Baltimore. They damn near have a black everyone in charge. How is that working out?

 

[iamdef]

well deserved...he's sitting down cuz an democratic electoral process worked? imagine had it been da other way around...

What, somebody else would have sat down?

 

[JPS]

well deserved...he's sitting down cuz an democratic electoral process worked? imagine had it been da other way around...

u think people deserve derogatory comments, racial slurs, and death threats?

 

[dathbgboy]

Only solution is to insert ourselves into the systems that we need to benefit us. Back during Jim Crow, black people didn't sit and hope that one day integration would happen in the mean time they won't open their own stores, build their own communities, etc. They did what they needed to do. Fast forward to integration and it made us more complacent and dependent on the political structure of this country and those "in charge"

Fact of the matter is, we need to start doing for self and get to a position where we truly are needed to get elected or we get elected ourselves.

Ever heard of the Negro Wall Street aka Black Wall Street?

The same black businesses, schools, hospitals and thriving community that black people were "doing for self" and white people burned to the ground?

And after burning it down, tried to rezone it and make it more expensive to rebuild?

Riiiiiiight.

Any strong movement black or brown people make WILL be shut down one way or another.

Trust. And. Believe.

So I get Kaep's point. No matter what you do or who you vote for, the system is corrupt.

I don't know how to fix it. But it clearly seems as if not much will be accomplished unless THEY allow it. I'll collapse while holding my breath waiting for that to happen.

I've heard of it and the climate was different then that it is today, we should know how to move differently than we did in the past. Today company's will discriminate by saying "we don't think they'll fit in our environment" as opposed to "we don't want to hire a minority" gotta use the same tricks and advance em. Can't be clear and cut because they love playing oppressor and victim.

Another thing is we gotta stop trying to get white people to see the errors of their ways, it's not going to happen, and that holds us back because many act as if we can't move forward until they do. It's like B can't start until A has finished, when in reality, it can.

 

[superblytrife]

I'm still waiting for someone to show me the plan moving forward w/out voting.  And not just a plan, but the ACTIONS being taken.  Or are we just gonna "sit this one out" for eternity?  

Anyone?  

 

[hand2handking]

listen to killer mike speech 

 

[iamdef]

 
listen to killer mike speech 

The one where he's in the church talking about how black people need to be educated on how to survive (i.e. hunting and gardening) before a real revolution can be had?

 

[SneakerProSr.]

your oppressor is not going to give you "one the few mechanisms available" to end your oppression

and i dont disagree with voting, i just dont expect it to change anything

It's used to be illegal for Black people to read English

I guess we should stop doing that too because the oppressor gave us that.

 

[MVP]

It's used to be illegal for Black people to read English

I guess we should stop doing that too because the oppressor gave us that.

I was going to bring this up earlier, but yea.

 

[Mark Antony]

Apply that it won't work so don't even try logic to your daily lives and tell me how that works out.

Nothing worked until it did given the work put in. We took that black wall Street L on the chin and never even tried to play the game right and recover.

 

[hand2handking]

 

 
listen to killer mike speech 

The one where he's in the church talking about how black people need to be educated on how to survive (i.e. hunting and gardening) before a real revolution can be had?

yea that one

 

your oppressor is not going to give you "one the few mechanisms available" to end your oppression

and i dont disagree with voting, i just dont expect it to change anything

It's used to be illegal for Black people to read English

I guess we should stop doing that too because the oppressor gave us that.

the fact that you would frame this as being something to be given is just 

they didnt "give" black people that

go read frederick douglass autobiography 

 

i guess we oughta thank white people that inner city schools arent worse too huh? or that they even exist? 

thank the white man for education like they created all knowledge

 

[iamdef]

 
yea that one

 

[Mark Antony]

That seems like a micro view of a nationwide issue.

 

[AZwildcats]

Our boy Mike Evans has joined the struggle and will be taking a knee during the anthem as long as Trump is president elect.

Some nasty comments on IG about it too

well deserved...he's sitting down cuz an democratic electoral process worked? imagine had it been da other way around...

I agree that his reasoning isn't as sound as Colin's, but the comments he has gotten have been a diagrace

 

[frankmatthews]

And that's how I know you don't know what you have.

The means of production will always be controlled by few people as it is more efficient, and efficiency is necessary when resources are scarce. What democracy requires you to do that other political systems don't is to decide how the goods (tangible and intangible) produced by the few will be allocated. If the people refuse to make that decision, somebody else will, and they will choose according to their interests.

Can people be tricked into choosing against their interests? Yes

Can they do something about it? Yes

Do they? No.

But they still want to complain and dream about solutions that are unrealistic when they already have the tools of change but refuse to use them.

First of all, resources are not scare. When 20% of the population owns 93% of the wealth it would tend to appear that way. Second of all the means of production might be more efficient in the hands of a few, MIGHT. But the fact of the matter is that has zero to do with the voting process. You do not vote on who controls the means of production nor how they choose to distribute it. There are no term limits on the control of production, there are no checks and balances. Idk how you can imply that is the "peoples decision" with a straight face. Maybe 70 years ago, when there were discriminatory laws on the books pertaining to minorities I may be more sympathetic to the argument of access to resources through the political process but that does'nt mean the argument is any less flawed or fallacious. You have democracy confused with the free market.

You feel the tools of change are available to the common man but where is the "Change" Obama promised? In relation to the thread topic, life for blacks under Obama has been just as bad if not worse than under the previous administration. And the democratic administration prior to that implemented arguably some of the most detrimental policies for the black community since Jim Crow. Every ******* time it's the same old story, things are gonna swing our way with the next election. We exercise our right to vote and establish a liberal majority and our problems will solve themselves. Things were supposed to swing our way "next time" for at least the past 16 years, your entire adult life. They beat Rodney King in 1991 and got off and killed Mike Brown in 2014 and got off. And thats just a fraction of the story. And your faith is still in the same system. The tools of change have always just been sitting there waiting for us to implement them right? At what point are you going to consider the definition of insanity?

No. This is not true.

Ruling by force is sustainable as long as the threat of violence keeps people disinterested in the political process. As soon as the desire of self-determination rises higher than the fear of dying, uprisings and revolutions happen. In real democracies, popular choice was never given by the ruling class; it was always earned by the people. See the French and American revolutions. It is only when apathy settles and spreads in the collective psyche that we see a return to autoritarian forms of governance, and this is what is happening right now. You talk about Bernays and psychological manipulation but what you don't realize is that you are doing the bidding of the people who borrowed his ideas by refusing to get involved.

You're not really saying anything different than me here. The point of contention I would make is that the ruling class just didn't simply concede defeat and hand over any and all power to the people. They learned to acquiesce a certain level of freedom to prevent deadly and destructive revolution going forward. You think the people fought and earned their freedom and voice to facilitate the rich getting richer? As I said, the power of the people is a facade, underneath which power is concentrated. The duality of function/operation of the government and power is the true genius of our founders. How things appear to operate on a surface level is only just that, surface level deflection and it's purposefully intertwined with a logical, reasonable appearance of function. You want to quote political and economic theory as if it's merely educational, but what you fail to realize is that is the propaganda, thats the mental manipulation, the new rule by force. I happen to know where the founders of americas institutions studied and who they studied under. I know the political and philosophical leanings at that particular time, in that particular part of the world. I've read their private correspondences. American democracy is nothing but a cloak over statist ideology. And you can see that manifested literally everywhere to this day. This big brother, security state is not something the power of the people is responsible for. It's the slow implementation of a super state which goes against the self interest of the people and the notion that they've "earned" the ability of freedom to choose that path.

Lastly, the bidding of Bernays and his predecessors was not to influence non-participation. In fact it was the opposite, keeping people disinterested and apathetic breeds the resent for the state which the entire operation seeks to avoid . Bernays et. al. objective was to provide a false sense of participation, to use psychology to influence people to participate in a meaningless way or in a way that goes against their interests. Keeping people psychologically and emotionally invested in the trivial aspects of a so called democratic process. Observing the political sphere over the past few months, it should be painfully obvious how that works and how effective such campaign tactics have become.

 

[frankmatthews]

Your education on the matter begins and ends inside a whitewashed, state sanctioned text book, if that. But im delusional. You're delusional. Voting is learned helplessness. Bogus nationalist idealism. Think what you want, think whats more comfortable, more palateable for you. I cant think for you but if you're not gonna study anything beyond whats been force fed to you through state run institutions then you have a minimal understanding of whats reality and whats delusion.

You're lost. Your audacity is misplaced and it most likely shows in your life and the lives of the people around you.
The clouded logic and pseudo theories that you've based your intellect on hamper the success of guys like you and will continue to do so until you get past the immature conjectures brought on by a lifetime of insecurity

Fam, idk what you're on talking about my success and insecurity. Im blessed, and i feel immensely fortunate for my lot in life. Does it make you feel better to manufacture some pitiful life for me? That in itself is a tell tale sign of your own insecurities likely based on the fact you KNOW you're understanding history, politics and economics is rudimentry at best. Take a long hard look at your own intelect and succes instead of wishing ill on others.

 

[cashbanks]

well deserved...he's sitting down cuz an democratic electoral process worked? imagine had it been da other way around...

He deserves racism?

 

[JPS]

He deserves racism?

you know his type at this point.

 

[cashbanks]

Oh I've never wondered about what type of dude ninja is he's always made that very clear, I'm just interested in seeing how he'd try and spin what he just said as if he didn't advocate for racist attacks against Mike Evans.