Congress clears historic health care bill...

[sirius lee handsome]

What up with many of these teabaggers acting like homegrown terrorists trying to physically intimidate people who voted in favor of the Health Bill? Throwing bricks through people's windows? Cutting off gas pipes in front of the person's home? Is that what it's come to? Do any of you pro-teabagging zombies have anything to say about that?

 

[shaunhillftw49]

Originally Posted by SIRIUS LEE HANDSOME

What up with many of these teabaggers acting like homegrown terrorists trying to physically intimidate people who voted in favor of the Health Bill? Throwing bricks through people's windows? Cutting off gas pipes in front of the person's home? Is that what it's come to? Do any of you pro-teabagging zombies have anything to say about that?

Come on. Many doesn't mean all. You wouldn't need to explain the actions of someone from your political group because one/many doesn't represent all.

 

[essential1]

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by Essential1

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Essential, none of those scriptures justifies having money involuntarily taken away through taxes. They urge to give VOLUNTARILY, as in I-decide-on-my-own-to-give-not-by-government-force-or-law.

Also, scripture doesn't contradict itself.  It doesn't preach earning your way ("if you don't work, you don't eat") and simultaneously say give to people without any accountability from them.

Yikes.

If you don't give money to the poor you go to hell... Yup it seems very voluntary to me...... I don't see big Conservative names giving to the poor then.....You have the money do you help every homeless man you see or every mother working 3 jobs but still having trouble supporting her kids.

No one is saying give without any accountability either.... You guys won't give at all.... Scripture in fact does contradict itself on many levels..

   No, if you don't accept Christ as Savior, you go to hell. 

Don't quote the Bible if you don't know what you're talking about.

Further proof you'll literally twist anything into being progressive or liberal. 

I'm not getting into the Acorn thing. 

I don't consider the Church to be liberal...Or televangelists ... Or teabaggers...

Also there are 1000000000000000 of ways to go to hell not just that one way.  You don't even need to read the bible to know that...  And I can quote page by page things you would call "Marxist" "Communist" "Socialist" "Progressive" "Liberal".... I really hope Jesus comes back, he would not be too amused by Conservatives..

 

[sirius lee handsome]

Well you know what? Of course not everyone who belongs to that movement is throwing bricks through people's windows, but their whole underlying ideology is extreme and twisted - the very kind that breeds these kinds of actions.

If you start a brush fire you're responsible for the forest fire it later eventually becomes. You can't stand around and later on be like "Well, we had no part in that. We're not responsible for the actions of some of the people who stand by us and share the same ideas we do."

 

[burns1923]

Originally Posted by SIRIUS LEE HANDSOME

Well you know what? Of course not everyone who belongs to that movement is throwing bricks through people's windows, but their whole underlying ideology is extreme and twisted - the very kind that breeds these kinds of actions.

If you start a brush fire you're responsible for the forest fire it later eventually becomes. You can't stand around and later on be like "Well, we had no part in that. We're not responsible for the actions of some of the people who stand by us and share the same ideas we do."

Nah, you basically don't want anyone opposing Obama in any way.  No freedom of speech, no freedom to assemble, nothing.  Just let him and Congress run roughshod.

I'm not defending any bad behavior but come on.  Stop trying to paint this as something else. At least they aren't Obama's pal Bill Ayers bombing police stations.

  

 

[sirius lee handsome]

 

[essential1]

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by SIRIUS LEE HANDSOME

Well you know what? Of course not everyone who belongs to that movement is throwing bricks through people's windows, but their whole underlying ideology is extreme and twisted - the very kind that breeds these kinds of actions.

If you start a brush fire you're responsible for the forest fire it later eventually becomes. You can't stand around and later on be like "Well, we had no part in that. We're not responsible for the actions of some of the people who stand by us and share the same ideas we do."

Nah, you basically don't want anyone opposing Obama in any way.  No freedom of speech, no freedom to assemble, nothing.  Just let him and Congress run roughshod.

I'm not defending any bad behavior but come on.  Stop trying to paint this as something else. At least they aren't Obama's pal Bill Ayers bombing police stations.

  

just can't let go of 2008 can you///

 

[shaunhillftw49]

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by SIRIUS LEE HANDSOME

Well you know what? Of course not everyone who belongs to that movement is throwing bricks through people's windows, but their whole underlying ideology is extreme and twisted - the very kind that breeds these kinds of actions.

If you start a brush fire you're responsible for the forest fire it later eventually becomes. You can't stand around and later on be like "Well, we had no part in that. We're not responsible for the actions of some of the people who stand by us and share the same ideas we do."

Nah, you basically don't want anyone opposing Obama in any way.  No freedom of speech, no freedom to assemble, nothing.  Just let him and Congress run roughshod.

I'm not defending any bad behavior but come on.  Stop trying to paint this as something else. At least they aren't Obama's pal Bill Ayers bombing police stations.

  

Like I said, people shouldn't always be guilt by association.

 

[burns1923]

Originally Posted by Essential1

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by Essential1

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Essential, none of those scriptures justifies having money involuntarily taken away through taxes. They urge to give VOLUNTARILY, as in I-decide-on-my-own-to-give-not-by-government-force-or-law.

Also, scripture doesn't contradict itself.  It doesn't preach earning your way ("if you don't work, you don't eat") and simultaneously say give to people without any accountability from them.

Yikes.

If you don't give money to the poor you go to hell... Yup it seems very voluntary to me...... I don't see big Conservative names giving to the poor then.....You have the money do you help every homeless man you see or every mother working 3 jobs but still having trouble supporting her kids.

No one is saying give without any accountability either.... You guys won't give at all.... Scripture in fact does contradict itself on many levels..

   No, if you don't accept Christ as Savior, you go to hell. 

Don't quote the Bible if you don't know what you're talking about.

Further proof you'll literally twist anything into being progressive or liberal. 

I'm not getting into the Acorn thing. 

I don't consider the Church to be liberal...Or televangelists ... Or teabaggers...

Also there are 1000000000000000 of ways to go to hell not just that one way.  You don't even need to read the bible to know that...  And I can quote page by page things you would call "Marxist" "Communist" "Socialist" "Progressive" "Liberal".... I really hope Jesus comes back, he would not be too amused by Conservatives..

Nope.  If you've read the Bible, you'd know.  You don't go to heaven or hell by works or deeds.  It is a spiritual matter.  Not accepting Christ means going to hell.  There is no way the spin that.

Based on what Obama and Congress are up to, this may be end times.  You can rest assured that everyone who's had, performed, supported an abortion will be answering for it.

Wait...    Democrats?  Uh oh.

 

[burns1923]

Originally Posted by Essential1

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by SIRIUS LEE HANDSOME

Well you know what? Of course not everyone who belongs to that movement is throwing bricks through people's windows, but their whole underlying ideology is extreme and twisted - the very kind that breeds these kinds of actions.

If you start a brush fire you're responsible for the forest fire it later eventually becomes. You can't stand around and later on be like "Well, we had no part in that. We're not responsible for the actions of some of the people who stand by us and share the same ideas we do."

Nah, you basically don't want anyone opposing Obama in any way.  No freedom of speech, no freedom to assemble, nothing.  Just let him and Congress run roughshod.

I'm not defending any bad behavior but come on.  Stop trying to paint this as something else. At least they aren't Obama's pal Bill Ayers bombing police stations.

  

just can't let go of 2008 can you///

I'll do that when you folks let go of George W. Bush and the Iraq war and WMD's.

 

[essential1]

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by Essential1

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by SIRIUS LEE HANDSOME

Well you know what? Of course not everyone who belongs to that movement is throwing bricks through people's windows, but their whole underlying ideology is extreme and twisted - the very kind that breeds these kinds of actions.

If you start a brush fire you're responsible for the forest fire it later eventually becomes. You can't stand around and later on be like "Well, we had no part in that. We're not responsible for the actions of some of the people who stand by us and share the same ideas we do."

Nah, you basically don't want anyone opposing Obama in any way.  No freedom of speech, no freedom to assemble, nothing.  Just let him and Congress run roughshod.

I'm not defending any bad behavior but come on.  Stop trying to paint this as something else. At least they aren't Obama's pal Bill Ayers bombing police stations.

  

just can't let go of 2008 can you///

I'll do that when you folks let go of George W. Bush and the Iraq war and WMD's.

Yup comparing a weak to nonexistent tie   to a President lying about a country possessing nuclear weapons  starting a war and killing thousands of innocent people and American citizens and this being a partly reason to why we have such a high deficit and debt that you keep complaining about.... Yeah they are similar..... Idiot

 

[utvol23]

Originally Posted by SIRIUS LEE HANDSOME

LOL late pass on posting that was posted many pages ago. Also its not about the government not being able to do things its about how inefficient and wasteful they are when they do them as you can see by the article i posted many pages ago. Just so you dont have to go searching here it is again.


The first place totrim runaway federal spending is in waste, fraud, and abuse.Congress, however, has largely abandoned its constitutional duty ofoverseeing the executive branch and has steadfastly refused toaddress the waste littered across government programs. In 2003, anattempt by House Budget Committee Chairman Jim Nussle (R-IA)to address wasteful spending was rejected by the House ofRepresentatives, and similar calls in 2004 by then-SenateBudget Committee Chairman Don Nickles (R-OK) were rejected by theSenate. A small group of House lawmakers has formed the WashingtonWaste Watchers, but their agenda has not been embraced by the wholeHouse.

Lack of informationis not the problem. Today, government waste investigations andrecommendations can be found in hundreds of reports, suchas:

• 
  Studies publishedby the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO),[1]
• 
  The CongressionalBudget Office's Budget Options book,
• 
  Inspector generalreports of each agency,
• 
  GovernmentPerformance and Results Act reports of each agency,
• 
  The White House'sProgram Assessment Rating Tool (PART) program reviews,and
• 
  The SenateGovernmental Affairs Committee's 2001 Government at theBrink reports.

For those seekingpast recommendations that went unheeded, the 1984 Grace Commissionreport on government waste and the 1993-1995 publications of VicePresident Al Gore's National Performance Review can still befound.

With all of thisavailable information and in an era of tight budgets, why arelawmakers so resistant to reducing waste? One reason is that theysee it as a thankless job that would go unnoticed back home. WithCongress in session just 80 days annually, reducing wastewould take precious time away from most lawmakers' higherpriorities of increasing spending on popular programs andbringing pork-barrel projects home.

A second reason isthat some of the most wasteful programs are also the mostpopular (e.g., Medicare), and lawmakers fear that opponentswould portray them as "attacking" popular programs. Consequently,waste and inefficiencies continue to build up, costing taxpayersmore while providing beneficiaries with less.

A real war ongovernment waste could easily save over $100 billion annuallywithout harming the legitimate operations and benefits ofgovernment programs. As a first step, lawmakers should address the10 following examples of egregious waste.

1. The Missing $25Billion

Buried in theDepartment of the Treasury's 2003 Financial Report of the United States Government is a short section titled "UnreconciledTransactions Affecting the Change in Net Position," which explainsthat these unreconciled transactions totaled $24.5 billion in2003.[2]

The unreconciledtransactions are funds for which auditors cannot account: Thegovernment knows that $25 billion was spent by someone, somewhere,on something, but auditors do not know who spent it,where it was spent, or on what it was spent. Blamingthese unreconciled transactions on the failure of federal agenciesto report their expenditures adequately, the Treasury reportconcludes that locating the money is "a priority."

The unreconciled$25 billion could have funded the entire Department of Justice foran entire year.

2. Unused FlightTickets Totaling $100 Million

A recent auditrevealed that between 1997 and 2003, the Defense Departmentpurchased and then left unused approximately 270,000 commercialairline tickets at a total cost of $100 million. Even worse, thePentagon never bothered to get a refund for these fullyrefundable tickets. The GAO blamed a system that relied ondepartment personnel to notify the travel office when purchasedtickets went unused.[3]

Auditors also found27,000 transactions between 2001 and 2002 in which the Pentagonpaid twice for the same ticket. The department would purchase theticket directly and then inexplicably reimburse the employeefor the cost of the ticket. (In one case, an employee who allegedlymade seven false claims for airline tickets professed not to havenoticed that $9,700 was deposited into his/her account). Theseadditional transactions cost taxpayers $8 million.

This $108 millioncould have purchased seven Blackhawk helicopters, 17 M1 Abramstanks, or a large supply of additional body armor for U.S. troopsin Afghanistan and Iraq.

3. Embezzled Fundsat the Department of Agriculture

Federal employeecredit card programs were designed to save money. Rather thanweaving through a lengthy procurement process to acquire basicsupplies, federal employees could purchase job-related productswith credit cards that would be paid by their agency. What began asa smart way to streamline government has since been corrupted bysome federal employees who have abused the public trust.

A recent auditrevealed that employees of the Department of Agriculture (USDA)diverted millions of dollars to personal purchases throughtheir government-issued credit cards. Sampling 300 employees'purchases over six months, investigators estimated that 15 percentabused their government credit cards at a cost of $5.8 million.Taxpayer-funded purchases included Ozzy Osbourne concert tickets,tattoos, lingerie, bartender school tuition, car payments, and cashadvances.

The USDA haspledged a thorough investigation, but it will have a huge task:55,000 USDA credit cards are in circulation, including 1,549 thatare still held by people who no longer work at the USDA.[4]

4. Credit CardAbuse at the Department of Defense

The DefenseDepartment has uncovered its own credit card scandal. Over onerecent 18-month period, Air Force and Navy personnel usedgovernment-funded credit cards to charge at least $102,400 foradmission to entertainment events, $48,250 for gambling, $69,300for cruises, and $73,950 for exotic dance clubs and prostitutes.[5]

5. MedicareOverspending

Medicare wastesmore money than any other federal program, yet its strong publicsupport leaves lawmakers hesitant to address programefficiencies, which cost taxpayers and Medicarerecipients billions of dollars annually.

For example,Medicare pays as much as eight times what other federal agenciespay for the same drugs and medical supplies.[6] The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) recently compared the pricespaid by Medicare and the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA)health care program for 16 types of medical equipment and supplies,which account for one-quarter of Medicare's equipment andsupplies purchases. The evidence showed that Medicare paid anaverage of more than double what the VA paid for the same items.The largest difference was for saline solution, with Medicarepaying $8.26 per liter compared to the $1.02 paid by the VA.[7] (SeeTable 1.)

[img]http://www.heritage.org/static...5BD66979A6F776F0E6.gif?w=370&h=259&as=1[/img]

These higher pricesnot only cost the program more money, but also take more money outof the pockets of Medicare beneficiaries. In 2002, senior citizens'co-payments accounted for 20 percent of the $9.4 billion in allowedclaims for medical equipment and supplies.[8] Higher prices mean higherco-payments.

Medicare alsooverpays for drugs. In 2000, Medicare's payments for 24 leadingdrugs were $1.9 billion higher than they would have been under theprices paid by the VA or other federal agencies. Although Medicareis supposed to pay wholesale prices for drugs, it relies on drugmanufacturers to define the prices, and manufacturers havestrong incentives to inflate their prices.[9]

Nor are inflatedprices for drugs and supplies the most expensive examples ofMedicare's inefficiencies. Basic payment errors-the results ofdeliberate fraud and administrative errors-cost $12.3 billionannually. As much as $7 billion owed to the program has goneuncollected or has been written off.[1 Finally, while Medicarecontracts claims processing and administration to severalprivate companies, 19 cases of contractor fraud have beensettled in recent years, with a maximum settlement of $76million.[11]

Putting it alltogether, Medicare reform could save taxpayers and programbeneficiaries $20 billion to $30 billion annually withoutreducing benefits. That would be enough to fund a $3,000refundable health care tax credit for nearly 10 millionuninsured low-income households.

6. FundingFictitious Colleges and Students

In 2002, theDepartment of Education received an application to certify thestudent loan participation of the Y'Hica Institute in London,England. After approving the certification, the department receivedand approved student loan applications from three Y'Hica studentsand disbursed $55,000.

The EducationDepartment administrators overlooked one problem: Neither theY'Hica Institute nor the three students who received the $55,000existed. The fictitious college and students were created (onpaper) by congressional investigators to test the Department ofEducation's verification procedures. All of the documents werefaked, right down to naming one of the fictional loan studentapplicants "Susan M. Collins," after the Senator requesting theinvestigation.[12]

Such carelessnesshelps to explain why federal student loan programs routinelyreceive poor management reviews from government auditors. Atlast count, $21.8 billion worth of student loans are in default,and too many cases of fraud are left undetected.[13]Tracking students across federal programs, verifying loanapplication data with IRS income data, and implementing controls toprevent the disbursement of loans to fraudulent applicantscould save taxpayers billions of dollars.

7. ManipulatingData to Encourage Spending

The Army Corps ofEngineers spends $5 billion annually constructing dams and otherwater projects. Yet, in a massive conflict of interest, it is alsocharged with evaluating the science and economics of eachproposed water project. The Corps' "strategic vision" calls onmanagers to increase their budgets as rapidly as possible, whichrequires approving as many proposed projects as possible.[14]Consequently, the Corps has repeatedly been accused of deliberatelymanipulating its economic studies to justify unworthyprojects.

Investigations bythe GAO, The Washington Post, and several privateorganizations have found that Corps studies routinely containdozens of basic arithmetic errors, computer errors, and ridiculouseconomic assumptions that artificially inflate the benefits ofwater projects by as much as 300 percent.[15] In one case, astudy's authors inflated a project's benefits by using a 2.5percent interest rate that dated back to 1954. In many cases inwhich the Corps calculated that a project would be a net benefit,arithmetic corrections revealed that the costs would be many timesgreater than the benefits.[16] By that point, of course,the unnecessary and wasteful project is often underway and cannotbe stopped.

These errors appearto reflect more deception than sloppiness. A Washington Postinvestigation uncovered managers ordering analysts to "getcreative," to "look for ways to get to yes as fast aspossible," and "not to take no for an answer." After a publicoutcry, in 2002, the Corps suspended work on 150 projects to reviewthe economics used to justify them.[17] However, given thecombination of Congress's thirst for pork-barrel projects and theCorps' built-in incentives to approve projects that will increaseits budget, real reforms seem unlikely.

8. State Abuse ofMedicaid Funding Formulas

Significant waste,fraud, and abuse pervade Medicaid, which provides health servicesto 44 million low-income Americans. While states run their ownMedicaid programs, the federal government reimburses anaverage of 57 percent of each state's costs.

This system givesstates an incentive to overreport their Medicaid expendituresin order to receive larger federal reimbursements. Notsurprisingly, the GAO has identified state schemes that shiftmoney between state accounts to create an illusion of higherMedicaid expenditures. Similarly, some states have spent theirfederal Medicaid dollars on non-Medicaid purposes. Tight statebudgets like those experienced by most states today have increasedthe pressure to use such deceptive tactics.

The GAO and the HHSInspector General have also uncovered some states' practice ofrecovering improper payments, retaining the funds, and thenspending them on unrelated programs-a practice that costs thefederal government well over $2 billion per year. Congresscould enact legislation to prohibit these actions moreeffectively.

Minor reformsenacted by HHS in 2001 and 2002 are expected to save Medicaid $70billion over the next decade. A small sample of financing schemesuncovered in a few states suggests that, if Congress acts, evenlarger savings are available.[18]

9. Earned IncomeTax Credit Overpayments

The earned incometax credit (EITC) provides $31 billion in refundable tax credits to19 million low-income families. The IRS estimates that $8.5 billionto $9.9 billion of this amount-nearly one-third-is wasted inoverpayments.

The complexity ofthe EITC law leads to many of these mistakes. Calculating thecredits is more complex than calculating regular income taxes.While the credit amount depends on the number of children in ahousehold, the tax code does not clearly define how a childqualifies for the credit. In addition, fraud and underreporting ofincome are common, and the IRS lacks the resources to verify thequalifications of all EITC claimants.

Efforts are beingmade to address this problem, but Congress can do more byrequiring better verification of incomes and by clearlydefining the standards by which a child qualifies for the EITC.[19]

10. RedundancyPiled on Redundancy

Government'slayering of new programs on top of old ones inherently createsduplication. Having several agencies perform similar duties iswasteful and confuses program beneficiaries who must navigate eachprogram's distinct rules and requirements.

Some overlap isinevitable because some agencies are defined by whomthey serve (e.g., veterans, Native Americans, urbanites, and ruralfamilies), while others are defined by what they provide(e.g., housing, education, health care, and economic development).When these agencies' constituencies overlap, each relevant agencywill often have its own program. With 342 separate economicdevelopment programs, the federal government needs to makeconsolidation a priority.

Consolidatingduplicative programs will save money and improve governmentservice. In addition to those programs that should beeliminated completely, Congress should consolidate thefollowing sets of programs:

• 
  342economicdevelopment programs;
• 
  130programsserving the disabled;
• 
  130programsserving at-risk youth;
• 
  90 early childhooddevelopment programs;
• 
  75 programs fundinginternational education, cultural, and training exchangeactivities;
• 
  72 federal programsdedicated to assuring safe water;
• 
  50 homeless assistanceprograms;
• 
  45 federal agenciesconducting federal criminal investigations;
• 
  40 separate employmentand training programs;
• 
  28 rural developmentprograms;
• 
  27 teen pregnancyprograms;
• 
  26 small, extraneousK-12 school grant programs;
• 
  23 agencies providingaid to the former Soviet republics;
• 
  19 programs fightingsubstance abuse;
• 
  17 rural water andwaste-water programs in eight agencies;
• 
  17 trade agenciesmonitoring 400 international trade agreements;
• 
  12 food safetyagencies;
• 
  11 principalstatistics agencies; and
• 
  Fouroverlappingland management agencies.[2
  Conclusion
  
  Lawmakers have anopportunity to take a strong stand for efficient government andspending restraint. Reforming wasteful programs will buildessential momentum for the larger reforms that are needed to bringthe budget under control.
  
  Brian M.Riedl is Grover M. Hermann Fellow in FederalBudgetary Affairs in the Thomas A. Roe Institute for EconomicPolicy Studies at The Heritage Foundation.

 

[burns1923]

Originally Posted by Essential1

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by Essential1

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by SIRIUS LEE HANDSOME

Well you know what? Of course not everyone who belongs to that movement is throwing bricks through people's windows, but their whole underlying ideology is extreme and twisted - the very kind that breeds these kinds of actions.

If you start a brush fire you're responsible for the forest fire it later eventually becomes. You can't stand around and later on be like "Well, we had no part in that. We're not responsible for the actions of some of the people who stand by us and share the same ideas we do."

Nah, you basically don't want anyone opposing Obama in any way.  No freedom of speech, no freedom to assemble, nothing.  Just let him and Congress run roughshod.

I'm not defending any bad behavior but come on.  Stop trying to paint this as something else. At least they aren't Obama's pal Bill Ayers bombing police stations.

  

just can't let go of 2008 can you///

I'll do that when you folks let go of George W. Bush and the Iraq war and WMD's.

Yup comparing a weak to nonexistent tie   to a President lying about a country possessing nuclear weapons  starting a war and killing thousands of innocent people and American citizens and this being a partly reason to why we have such a high deficit and debt that you keep complaining about.... Yeah they are similar..... Idiot

They don't have to be "similar". 

I must say thank you for being consistent with the name calling.  You make all your fellow 20 year olds quite proud.

I mean, the maturity level is...  well, just thanks.
  

 

[essential1]

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by Essential1

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by Essential1

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by SIRIUS LEE HANDSOME

Well you know what? Of course not everyone who belongs to that movement is throwing bricks through people's windows, but their whole underlying ideology is extreme and twisted - the very kind that breeds these kinds of actions.

If you start a brush fire you're responsible for the forest fire it later eventually becomes. You can't stand around and later on be like "Well, we had no part in that. We're not responsible for the actions of some of the people who stand by us and share the same ideas we do."

Nah, you basically don't want anyone opposing Obama in any way.  No freedom of speech, no freedom to assemble, nothing.  Just let him and Congress run roughshod.

I'm not defending any bad behavior but come on.  Stop trying to paint this as something else. At least they aren't Obama's pal Bill Ayers bombing police stations.

  

just can't let go of 2008 can you///

I'll do that when you folks let go of George W. Bush and the Iraq war and WMD's.

Yup comparing a weak to nonexistent tie   to a President lying about a country possessing nuclear weapons  starting a war and killing thousands of innocent people and American citizens and this being a partly reason to why we have such a high deficit and debt that you keep complaining about.... Yeah they are similar..... Idiot

They don't have to be "similar". 

I must say thank you for being consistent with the name calling.  You make all your fellow 20 year olds quite proud.

I mean, the maturity level is...  well, just thanks.
  

Yeah you have been kicking and screaming in this thread and name calling too.... And crying... and everytime someone posts something factual you dismiss it.. Crying and hollering socialism.. You are entitled to your own opinion, but sir you are not entitled to your own facts....  

It also is not a name calling thing here, it is just a reasonable and clear stated observation backed up by plenty of evidence...

 

[burns1923]

Originally Posted by Essential1

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by Essential1

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by Essential1

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by SIRIUS LEE HANDSOME

Well you know what? Of course not everyone who belongs to that movement is throwing bricks through people's windows, but their whole underlying ideology is extreme and twisted - the very kind that breeds these kinds of actions.

If you start a brush fire you're responsible for the forest fire it later eventually becomes. You can't stand around and later on be like "Well, we had no part in that. We're not responsible for the actions of some of the people who stand by us and share the same ideas we do."

Nah, you basically don't want anyone opposing Obama in any way.  No freedom of speech, no freedom to assemble, nothing.  Just let him and Congress run roughshod.

I'm not defending any bad behavior but come on.  Stop trying to paint this as something else. At least they aren't Obama's pal Bill Ayers bombing police stations.

  

just can't let go of 2008 can you///

I'll do that when you folks let go of George W. Bush and the Iraq war and WMD's.

Yup comparing a weak to nonexistent tie   to a President lying about a country possessing nuclear weapons  starting a war and killing thousands of innocent people and American citizens and this being a partly reason to why we have such a high deficit and debt that you keep complaining about.... Yeah they are similar..... Idiot

They don't have to be "similar". 

I must say thank you for being consistent with the name calling.  You make all your fellow 20 year olds quite proud.

I mean, the maturity level is...  well, just thanks.
  

Yeah you have been kicking and screaming in this thread and name calling too.... And crying... and everytime someone posts something factual you dismiss it.. Crying and hollering socialism.. You are entitled to your own opinion, but sir you are not entitled to your own facts....  

It also is not a name calling thing here, it is just a reasonable and clear stated observation backed up by plenty of evidence...

Good talking with you, though.  See you around.
  

 

[daytona 5000]

This guy really said let go of Bush, the Iraq war and WMD?

 

[spsfinest212]

Originally Posted by DAYTONA 5000

This guy really said let go of Bush, the Iraq war and WMD?

That guy is suffering greatly from asspained syndrome right now he's not even thinking before he says things anymore.

 

[ce0 mal]

WMD's were found, though...

 

[deuce king]

Originally Posted by CE0 Mal

WMD's were found, though...

 

[dunknforce]

i heard my taxes are going to go up .... booooo this bill !!!!!!

blame obama

YEAAA!!!!

blame yourselves for voting the people in your respective states into office... crybabies

 

[daytona 5000]

Originally Posted by CE0 Mal

WMD's were found, though...

Iraq didn't attack us, though....

 

[mo matik]

Originally Posted by CE0 Mal

WMD's were found, though...

source?

 

[knightlovesqueen]

and in the end nothing matters. burns you are obviously compensating for something. i don't know yr background but clearly u may have been abused as a child. you scream brainwashed liberals yet you are the complete paradoxical same of the other end of the spectrum.

you cry out for ppl to let go of bush. yet you harp on the president.

it truly saddens me that u are using scripture to wave yr battle flag.

you clearly voted for mccain to preserve your happy days, wonder years, leave it to beaver lifestyle.

im ashamed on all of my fellow NTers, instead of uniting and hoping for the best. we fight we argue. this topic is no longer a debate.

this has become a chest pounding crotch grabbing better than thou circle jerk.

all of you should now go to the corner and calm down.

burns its okay, its not yr fault he touched you in those places. and the evil black men won't go near you anymore. its okay hug thy bible and rest thy head unto palin's chest or mccains shoulder.

or allow the tea party to place there bags upon yr mouth

 

[mo matik]

im ashamed on all of my fellow NTers, instead of uniting and hoping for the best. we fight we argue. this topic is no longer a debate.


I called it on pg. 25.

 

[duba169]

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Originally Posted by Essential1

  

just can't let go of 2008 can you///

I'll do that when you folks let go of George W. Bush and the Iraq war and WMD's.

WOW

like it was nothing. a tiny mistake.