DELETE

[futuremd]

I have noticed in the South especially the insane level of reverence given to the Reverend (see what I did there) and Pastors of these churches which ultimately leads to an incredible amount of power bestowed upon these men...which USUALLY eventually gets to their heads and ultimately corrupts them. I mean what other profession requires so little but brings so many rewards? If you have a quicksilver tongue, charisma, and wit then you can become a Pastor. Then you can have a loyal audience in which you can influence because you have the word of God to assist you.

I was going to marry my H.S. sweetheart that I reconnected with some years ago, but she was the "Pastor said" type. Every other word that came out of her mouth was "Pastor said". She even worked for his church organization. Well her Pastor was Eddie Long, and just a few years later he was exposed for being a homo-sexual pedophile. Absolute power corrupts absolutely and the church environment is such an enabling environment for such corruption. Things like this and many others is what confuses me about the faith. I question the need for church, I do however believe in a personal spirituality, and I haven't dismissed my belief in God...though sometimes I wonder if I'm just hedging my bets in case Heaven and Hell is a true concept. Wow, I guess I am one confused dude!!!

There you have it.

Church is nothing more than a tightly ritualized and regulated appeal to emotion. Add to the fact that you have a segment of the population undergoing traumatic social and political stress, then it helps to provide some relief, psychologically, but it does NOT substantiate that these things actually exist.

Religion is a placebo for depression in the black community...and any other place where there is high unemployment, illiteracy, poor education, and poor education. 

Imagine that your life sucks SO MUCH that you have to hope you live forever when you DIE in a place that is better than the crap you have to live through on a daily basis. There is also evidence that Born-Again christians kinda are like drug addicts. Many of them who claim to "find god" after going through something are merely replacing their attractive qualities from one thing to another thing, thus making them (albeit openly) very clingy to the religion thing. It removes accountability from having to really embrace the things you did. Its also why the religiously motivated AA doesn't work.

Ask yourself this, if god is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, then why is god making you use the very logic that serves you well on the battlefield to question his (notice that its always a man) existence? 

Why did god make ME an agnostic-atheist (borderline anti-theist)? 

 

[rko2004]

[COLOR=#red]
Yes, you could be right...[/COLOR]

The word dinosaur is pretty new as well.

I looked through every page of this thread. Damn shame I tell.

 

[elderwatsondiggs]

There you have it.

Church is nothing more than a tightly ritualized and regulated appeal to emotion. Add to the fact that you have a segment of the population undergoing traumatic social and political stress, then it helps to provide some relief, psychologically, but it does NOT substantiate that these things actually exist.

Religion is a placebo for depression in the black community...and any other place where there is high unemployment, illiteracy, poor education, and poor education. 

Imagine that your life sucks SO MUCH that you have to hope you live forever when you DIE in a place that is better than the crap you have to live through on a daily basis. There is also evidence that Born-Again christians kinda are like drug addicts. Many of them who claim to "find god" after going through something are merely replacing their attractive qualities from one thing to another thing, thus making them (albeit openly) very clingy to the religion thing. It removes accountability from having to really embrace the things you did. Its also why the religiously motivated AA doesn't work.

Ask yourself this, if god is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, then why is god making you use the very logic that serves you well on the battlefield to question his (notice that its always a man) existence? 

Why did god make ME an agnostic-atheist (borderline anti-theist)? 

[COLOR=#red]

Future, I'm a very tolerant, open and accepting guy. My requirements for friendship are more about how you treat me and others, much less about what religion or non-religion you choose. I do identify myself as a Christian indeed, but I do not try to force my opinion and views on others, because that's just as wrong to me as trying to push Sharia Law on others. I feel that people should have a choice and not be persecuted because of their choice. That goes for everyone...agnostics and a-theists (yes I clearly recognize the usage of the prefix "A") shouldn't be persecuted by religious people for their lack of belief either. Because to me all it does is create division. Everybody thinks their beliefs are the correct ones and they passionately defend their cause. Sometimes being a thinking man causes so much distress...I can see why people volunteer to be anesthetized with these concepts...much easier that way.[/COLOR]

 

[yeold360s]

Wow. Dudes are catching airs in this thread something serious hahahahaha.
Thinking they have everything figured out. Time will tell. I hope you guys enjoy your lives

 

[elderwatsondiggs]

Wow. Dudes are catching airs in this thread something serious hahahahaha.
Thinking they have everything figured out. [COLOR=#red]Time will tell.[/COLOR] I hope you guys enjoy your lives

[COLOR=#red]TRUE!!! When the lights go out in our lives I guess the truth will be known. Or at least I hope so [/COLOR]

 

[futuremd]

There you have it.

Church is nothing more than a tightly ritualized and regulated appeal to emotion. Add to the fact that you have a segment of the population undergoing traumatic social and political stress, then it helps to provide some relief, psychologically, but it does NOT substantiate that these things actually exist.

Religion is a placebo for depression in the black community...and any other place where there is high unemployment, illiteracy, poor education, and poor education. 

Imagine that your life sucks SO MUCH that you have to hope you live forever when you DIE in a place that is better than the crap you have to live through on a daily basis. There is also evidence that Born-Again christians kinda are like drug addicts. Many of them who claim to "find god" after going through something are merely replacing their attractive qualities from one thing to another thing, thus making them (albeit openly) very clingy to the religion thing. It removes accountability from having to really embrace the things you did. Its also why the religiously motivated AA doesn't work.

Ask yourself this, if god is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, then why is god making you use the very logic that serves you well on the battlefield to question his (notice that its always a man) existence? 

Why did god make ME an agnostic-atheist (borderline anti-theist)? 

Future, I'm a very tolerant, open and accepting guy. My requirements for friendship are more about how you treat me and others, much less about what religion or non-religion you choose.

Agreed. I didn't say you weren't either. 

 I do identify myself as a Christian indeed, but I do not try to force my opinion and views on others, because that's just as wrong to me as trying to push Sharia Law on others.

Agreed, but if we're going to talk about why people believe things then we cant be afraid to get into the nitty-gritty of the arguments themselves.

We can't claim "not force opinions" if we're not going to talk about it in the first place.

I would PROTECT anyone's right to believe in the 7 Lost Tribes, but I personally the concept itself is ridiculous.

Being illogical isn't illegal, nor would I want to make it that way. 

I feel that people should have a choice and not be persecuted because of their choice. That goes for everyone...agnostics and a-theists (yes I clearly recognize the usage of the prefix "A") shouldn't be persecuted by religious people for their lack of belief either.

Agreed...

Because to me all it does is create division.

Agreed...

 Everybody thinks their beliefs are the correct ones and they passionately defend their cause.

Heres my thing.

I'm not an atheist because I think everyone else is wrong.

I'm an atheist because I haven't been convinced anyone is right.

Think of it that way.

If you claim to have a link to the creator of the universe and that he made a book for you to follow...but overtime that book loses validity, then I can't adopt your claims that you've asserted.

The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. 

Sometimes being a thinking man causes so much distress...I can see why people volunteer to be anesthetized with these concepts...much easier that way.

Well of course. 

"god did it" is far easier than having to actually TRY to come up with vaccines or solve energy problems. 

 

[bme88]

So if the source of christianity is the bible...but you said you can't trust the bible to be "accurate/complete or literal"...then how do you trust christianity? 

 i said bible is a guide not source people will interpet and take what they need based on themselves its not going to be the same for every person...never said you cant trust the bible just dont use as a source for complete world history book...like i said religion is based on faith, no it cant be proven/disproved but is for those who believe in something greater and beyond this earth

for me most religions all basically have same foundations, beliefes (believe in a "god" do good ect ect) what makes each religion different is the human/cultural factor.

 

[elderwatsondiggs]

[COLOR=#red]You are alright by me Future. I respect your insights and contributions to this discussion. Thanks man.[/COLOR]

 

[futuremd]

You are alright by me Future. I respect your insights and contributions to this discussion. Thanks man.

Its about trying to be consistent and honest.

Everyone thinks they're open-minded, but no one is open to being wrong.

It took me a long time to learn to just start from the assumption that I really don't know anything and work my way up. 

These discussions don't go well because everyone clings to what they want to be true instead of stepping beside something and seeing if it actually is. 

Its hard for people to separate who they are from what they believe AND contribute in a meaningful way without feeling offended.

Look. I'm not going to take it easy on theists. I don't see why I should. If you assert something, and you think its true, I'm going to ask you why. Nothing is free from inquiry or criticism and I don't see why we should start doing that now. 

 

[futuremd]

So if the source of christianity is the bible...but you said you can't trust the bible to be "accurate/complete or literal"...then how do you trust christianity? 

 i said bible is a guide not source

What?

Its a guide? So that means its meant to be followed, right?

 people will interpet and take what they need based on themselves its not going to be the same for every person

Is the bible up for interpretation on slavery, genocide, rape, and homosexuality?

What about god existing...is that up for interpretation?

...never said you cant trust the bible just dont use as a source for complete world history book

So use the bible as a "guide" but don't use it as a source of information? 

What? 

If it can't be verified as being useful, then whats the point?

...like i said religion is based on faith, no it cant be proven/disproved but is for those who believe in something greater and beyond this earth

Thats your excuse? Faith?

What is faith? 

Believing in something with poor reasons for doing so?

for me most religions all basically have same foundations, beliefes (believe in a "god" do good ect ect) what makes each religion different is the human/cultural factor.

So how do you decide what to follow and what not to follow? Do you use your own morality to choose what to ignore? 

 

[jbone2308]

Agreed. I didn't say you weren't either. 

Agreed, but if we're going to talk about why people believe things then we cant be afraid to get into the nitty-gritty of the arguments themselves.

We can't claim "not force opinions" if we're not going to talk about it in the first place.

I would PROTECT anyone's right to believe in the 7 Lost Tribes, but I personally the concept itself is ridiculous.

Being illogical isn't illegal, nor would I want to make it that way. 


Agreed...

Agreed...

Heres my thing.

I'm not an atheist because I think everyone else is wrong.

I'm an atheist because I haven't been convinced anyone is right.

Think of it that way.

If you claim to have a link to the creator of the universe and that he made a book for you to follow...but overtime that book loses validity, then I can't adopt your claims that you've asserted.

The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. 


Well of course. 

"god did it" is far easier than having to actually TRY to come up with vaccines or solve energy problems. 

I am a Christian and I like your honesty in what you said. Maybe it's not about being convinced anyone is right but seeking conviction in your heart from the one we believe in.

 

[futuremd]

Agreed. I didn't say you weren't either. 

Agreed, but if we're going to talk about why people believe things then we cant be afraid to get into the nitty-gritty of the arguments themselves.

We can't claim "not force opinions" if we're not going to talk about it in the first place.

I would PROTECT anyone's right to believe in the 7 Lost Tribes, but I personally the concept itself is ridiculous.

Being illogical isn't illegal, nor would I want to make it that way. 


Agreed...

Agreed...

Heres my thing.

I'm not an atheist because I think everyone else is wrong.

I'm an atheist because I haven't been convinced anyone is right.

Think of it that way.

If you claim to have a link to the creator of the universe and that he made a book for you to follow...but overtime that book loses validity, then I can't adopt your claims that you've asserted.

The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. 


Well of course. 

"god did it" is far easier than having to actually TRY to come up with vaccines or solve energy problems. 

I am a Christian and I like your honesty in what you said. Maybe it's not about being convinced anyone is right but seeking conviction in your heart from the one we believe in.

But I have a really high standard of proof though (or so I think 

 

)

I don't let BS slide...and (not to brag) I know more about christianity/islam than most of my christian/muslim friends do. 

So again, you may be "christian" (out of all the other religions you don't adhere to) but I would still ask you what allowed you to be convinced (in that single religion) that it was the right one. 

 

[retro23j]

I don't have a motive.

I'm just asking you to say why you claim to assert what you believe as a reasonable answer.

You still haven't answered that inquiry.

As of yet, you've taken any inquiry into the reasoning behind your conclusions as an attack on you instead of a chance for you to clarify the points of your argument.

Its not my job to defend your claims for you. If your arguments don't stand up then its no one else's fault but your own. 

I'm good.

 

[futuremd]

I don't have a motive.

I'm just asking you to say why you claim to assert what you believe as a reasonable answer.

You still haven't answered that inquiry.

As of yet, you've taken any inquiry into the reasoning behind your conclusions as an attack on you instead of a chance for you to clarify the points of your argument.

Its not my job to defend your claims for you. If your arguments don't stand up then its no one else's fault but your own. 

I'm good.

Of course you are.

1. Make wild assumptions on a book that rival the most compelling campfire story/fantasy novel.

2. Give it to the OP as a "serious answer" and establish it with a claim of your personal validity

3. When asked to offer why anyone should believe your answer, you pretend that you're being attacked and don't see the need to clarify how you reached that conclusion.

Stop saying that people are baiting you if you're not going to give anyone a reason to believe what you say. Its not my fault that what you asserted was incredulous. Its your responsibility to support your arguments if you're going to make them. 

 

[bme88]

What?

Its a guide? So that means its meant to be followed, right?

Is the bible up for interpretation on slavery, genocide, rape, and homosexuality?

What about god existing...is that up for interpretation?

So use the bible as a "guide" but don't use it as a source of information? 

What? 

If it can't be verified as being useful, then whats the point?

Thats your excuse? Faith?

What is faith? 

Believing in something with poor reasons for doing so?

So how do you decide what to follow and what not to follow? Do you use your own morality to choose what to ignore? 

a guide is something you use as reference ( a lot of christians dont read the bible or go to church doesnt mean their not getting into "heaven" this is not a reqirement), who said anything about rape ect? i said people will take from the bible what they need according to their lives not everyone is going to read and take the same thing out of it (ex. prisoners who pick up a bible read one verse and it completely changes them)...again the bible is not a history book plain and simple lol...definition of faith is believing in something that has not been proven and its not an excuse religion is based on faith this is taught throgh any church/religion...theres many religions who is to say which is right which is wrong people will believe what the feel is right....im not religious im open minded i view everything from all views i like the questions you ask im not mad...you yourself have no answers to anything you just twist and qustion what other people say lol but what is a discusion without all point of views believers and questioners.

slightly off topic do you believe in evolution or whats your explanation for life/universe? id like to know your views just not questions of what others have to say ha

 

[nawghtyhare]

Maybe dinosaurs arent real.........something made up i mean how could fossil/bones turn into crude oil i mean when u actually think about it does that really make sense? Bones turning into crude oil that powers generators cars and such

 

[retro23j]

Of course you are.

1. Make wild assumptions on a book that rival the most compelling campfire story/fantasy novel.

2. Give it to the OP as a "serious answer" and establish it with a claim of your personal validity

3. When asked to offer why anyone should believe your answer, you pretend that you're being attacked and don't see the need to clarify how you reached that conclusion.

Stop saying that people are baiting you if you're not going to give anyone a reason to believe what you say. Its not my fault that what you asserted was incredulous. Its your responsibility to support your arguments if you're going to make them. 

But you don't have a motive

 

[futuremd]

What?

Its a guide? So that means its meant to be followed, right?

Is the bible up for interpretation on slavery, genocide, rape, and homosexuality?

What about god existing...is that up for interpretation?

So use the bible as a "guide" but don't use it as a source of information? 

What? 

If it can't be verified as being useful, then whats the point?

Thats your excuse? Faith?

What is faith? 

Believing in something with poor reasons for doing so?

So how do you decide what to follow and what not to follow? Do you use your own morality to choose what to ignore? 

a guide is something you use as reference ( a lot of christians dont read the bible or go to church doesnt mean their not getting into "heaven" this is not a reqirement), 

This makes no sense.

Is the notion that a god exists a metaphor or an actual thing too? 

Because if "god" is a guide for being submissive to an invisible power does that mean god doesn't exist as stated in the bible? 

who said anything about rape ect? i said people will take from the bible what they need according to their lives not everyone is going to read and take the same thing out of it (ex. prisoners who pick up a bible read one verse and it completely changes them)

The bible is just a book. It doesn't have any more power than a Harry Potter novel.

It doesn't have any power besides that which people give it.

It wouldn't be that important if people outside of the bible didn't give it that significance. The only reason people are "transformed" is because they were already loosely religious in the first place. 

You wouldn't just pick up a Quran and start thinking anything in it was valid, would you? 

...again the bible is not a history book plain and simple lol...

I completely agree. Tell that to the believers though. 

definition of faith is believing in something that has not been proven and its not an excuse religion is based on faith this is taught throgh any church/religion...theres many religions who is to say which is right which is wrong people will believe what the feel is right....im not religious im open minded i view everything from all views i like the questions you ask im not mad...you yourself have no answers to anything you just twist and qustion what other people say lol but what is a discusion without all point of views believers and questioners.

I'm not mad either...but you're giving too much leeway to the book here and you're letting religious moderates off the hook.

I think its insulting to everyone's intelligence that you would read the bible and then try to discern some meaning outside of what it says in the first place. Like who are you trying to fool? 

People have been misquoting and twisting the book forever so I don't see why I need to be lenient on letting that sort of inaccuracy fly. 

slightly off topic do you believe in evolution or whats your explanation for life/universe? id like to know your views just not questions of what others have to say ha

I don't "believe" in evolution. 

I understand evolution. 

Whats my explanation for life and the universe? Life is the result of energetic confirmations of specific molecular substrates in favorable conditions. 

Do I know where everything came from? No. I don't claim to know. I don't think life has an explanation or a goal or a purpose. Do rocks have a goal and purpose? We're just increasingly complex vehicles for our own reproductive efforts...efforts that ultimately result in nothing at all. 

Religions claim to know, but their claims don't stand under their own weight. 

 

[Master Zik]

Light work!

 

[futuremd]

Of course you are.

1. Make wild assumptions on a book that rival the most compelling campfire story/fantasy novel.

2. Give it to the OP as a "serious answer" and establish it with a claim of your personal validity

3. When asked to offer why anyone should believe your answer, you pretend that you're being attacked and don't see the need to clarify how you reached that conclusion.

Stop saying that people are baiting you if you're not going to give anyone a reason to believe what you say. Its not my fault that what you asserted was incredulous. Its your responsibility to support your arguments if you're going to make them. 

But you don't have a motive

And you don't have an answer to why this...

http://niketalk.com/t/503813/nt-chr...saurs-mentioned-in-the-bible/30#post_16160497

Originally Posted by Retro23J  


My theory is that they were a part of the nephilim that were mentioned in Noah's day.Nephilim were fallen angels who began to procreate with the women on earth and produce giants who were all yolo everything. Cannibalism and beastiality were a part of their every day lives. Also those fallen angels sinned against birds, reptiles, and other animals creating hybrid monsters that were a part of the genetic mutation and were considered "unclean".

...is a reasonable conclusion to make.

 

[retro23j]

 

And you're editing you're replies to me in previous posts after I've already responded to them. So we'll go back to this.

Are we really discussing my belief or are you trying to prove to everyone else who's viewing this exchange something?

Also link me to the claim I made that resulted in you saying this

then you claim you're being attacked

 

[futuremd]

 

And you're editing you're replies to me in previous posts after I've already responded to them. So we'll go back to this.

Are we really discussing my belief or are you trying to prove to everyone else who's viewing this exchange something?

Also link me to the claim I made that resulted in you saying this

then you claim you're being attacked

You seem to be confused.

Why can't you just answer why you think what you think is a reasonable conclusion? 

And yes, you're making yourself out to be attacked when you say stuff like: 

"Are we really discussing my belief or are you trying to prove to everyone else who's viewing this exchange something?"

Just answer the question.

Why do you believe what you said was a reasonable answer? 

 

[ggarvinxx3]

 At this guy.... 

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!

MD

 

[futuremd]

 At this guy.... 

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!

MD

PLUTO!

 

[danikerhino]

FutureMD, even if someone's opinion seems illogical to you, you gotta learn how to accept that try don't share the same views as you. Not accepting anyone else's theory makes you seem close-minded yourself. For all we know, God could be a super-advanced extraterrestrial being that we can even comprehend. Just because it doesn't pertain to the science we live by now or we can't solve in some kind of question doesn't mean it can't exist. Science is not all-knowing and there are an infinite amount of things to be discovered. For example, the theory of relativity and the world of atoms and protons directly opposes each other. The beauty of science is what we know and what we have yet to discovered. I understand you don't see the logic of people and their faith, but, don't eliminate your open-mind based on science that's not definite. There's phenomenon that happen everyday that modern science can't explain or even interpret.