Did I just vote GUILTY on an innocent black man? Volume: Justice System sucks

[hovkid]

Hmmm...he had $500 in cash, a notebook with names and amounts next to it and various bags of cocaine and crack?  That's a drug dealer homie......

 

[caddylac]

Your man had a pay/owe book and you think he wasn't slinging??  What was he.. a dealers accountant? 

 

[916kings]

Originally Posted by HOVKid

Hmmm...he had $500 in cash, a notebook with names and amounts next to it and various bags of cocaine and crack?  That's a drug dealer homie......

 

[916kings]

double

 

[sundoobie]

Originally Posted by HOVKid

Hmmm...he had $500 in cash, a notebook with names and amounts next to it and various bags of cocaine and crack?  That's a drug dealer homie......

That was the conclusion.  Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, so it must be a....

so at the very least he's guilty of possession... I still don't see how you can characterize him as innocent.

and really, your peers do not have to be your own ethnicity.
Well what if he was using ALL of the drugs for his own personal use?  He was a heavy user.  The problem I had was we had to decide whether the evidence presented was enough to prove without a reasonable doubt that his intentions were to sell those drugs. 

Well I had some doubts.  Notebook may not have been his cause the DA didn't do a handwriting analysis and it was found in the vehicle which was registered under a different individual.  Maybe the money was from another source?  Maybe he was on the way to a crack house?  Multiple baggies for sale could also be for use right? 

I just hate seeing another black man incarcerated for drugs especially an addict.  System = Cycle

 

[championedition]

well um... dude was sellin. dont be stupid...
he was pushin round the hood makin calls.
the coke was his for sure, the crack was for sale.
you dont sniff coke and smoke crack at the same time.
crack gets you higher, so to someone who does the drugs, doing cocaine would be a stupid move.
he woulda cooked the coke into crack and made even more money.
so u were right.
he was sniffin and slangin rocks.

it happens all day man.

 

[ag 47]

Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

so at the very least he's guilty of possession... I still don't see how you can characterize him as innocent.

and really, your peers do not have to be your own ethnicity.

Well if he's being charged with intent to sell, then he can be very innocent.

 

[ag 47]

Originally Posted by Thizz Marley

Originally Posted by General Johnson

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

PS:Spoke to the DA and Public Defender after and they both told me if you ever get read your Miranda rights... SHUT the HELL UP.� They used a lot of what he told the officers which was recorded against him

Isn't that common sense? EVERYTHING you say (and sometimes what you don't say) WILL be used against you.

For those of you who don't know how to handle police, this video series (Flex Your Rights) is a good start.



The full video can be seen here. Watch and learn.

just this in my poli sci class. i thought it was common knowledge to shut your mouth. guess not  

All an officer would have to do is say that they had probable cause and they could carry out the search then.

And with probable cause being so damn vague, they could literally search your car or person over anything.

Also, disregard my last comment. I missed the part about the notebook.

 

[realtalkaz]

AG 47 wrote:

---

Originally Posted by Thizz Marley

Originally Posted by General Johnson

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

PS:Spoke to the DA and Public Defender after and they both told me if you ever get read your Miranda rights... SHUT the HELL UP.� They used a lot of what he told the officers which was recorded against him

Isn't that common sense? EVERYTHING you say (and sometimes what you don't say) WILL be used against you.

For those of you who don't know how to handle police, this video series (Flex Your Rights) is a good start.



The full video can be seen here. Watch and learn.

just this in my poli sci class. i thought it was common knowledge to shut your mouth. guess not ?

All an officer would have to do is say that they had probable cause and they could carry out the search then.

And with probable cause being so damn vague, they could literally search your car or person over anything.

Also, disregard my last comment. I missed the part about the notebook.


thats what you want them to do...any decent lawyer will eat that evidence up, and it wont be admitted into court....it all comes down to not doing the prosecuters job for them

 

[rashi]

He was guilty on the charges, but thanks for contributing to the incarceration of someone of a non-violent crime. Not your fault, though.

 

[sundoobie]

I am in Cali so at LEAST in our state, we the voters passed Proposition 36. 

California Proposition 36, the Substance Abuse and Crime Prevention Act of 2000, also known as Prop 36, was an initiative statute that permanently changed state law to allow qualifying defendants convicted of non-violent drug possession offenses to receive a probationary sentence in lieu of incarceration.

As a condition of probation defendants are required to participate in and complete a licensed and/or certified community drug treatment program. If the defendant fails to complete this program or violates any other term or condition of their probation, then probation can be revoked and the defendant may be required to serve an additional sentence which may include incarceration.

 

[rashi]

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

I am in Cali so at LEAST in our state, we the voters passed Proposition 36. 

California Proposition 36, the Substance Abuse and Crime Prevention Act of 2000, also known as Prop 36, was an initiative statute that permanently changed state law to allow qualifying defendants convicted of non-violent drug possession offenses to receive a probationary sentence in lieu of incarceration.

As a condition of probation defendants are required to participate in and complete a licensed and/or certified community drug treatment program. If the defendant fails to complete this program or violates any other term or condition of their probation, then probation can be revoked and the defendant may be required to serve an additional sentence which may include incarceration.

Personally, I think making them go to those drug treatment programs are counterproductive because some dont have cars or the ability to get there and then you are making them go involuntary, it turns out being a waste of money. This is the sad result of prohibition and it's sad they put people in these positions to make decisions on peoples lives in non-violent crimes.

 

[mostofthetime]

Originally Posted by General Johnson

Don't talk to cops G. Take it from a Law Professor...

I watched this whole thing. It was really interesting. I swear i'm never talking to cops again.
Michelle

 

[bittersweet]

I hate jail because it DOESN'T DO ANYTHING. It's just a place to hold minorities and people they think are threats to the community.

They aren't really helping them ... it's all a cycle.

 

[marionthebarberian]

Originally Posted by bittersweet

I hate jail because it DOESN'T DO ANYTHING. It's just a place to hold minorities and people they think are threats to the community.

They aren't really helping them ... it's all a cycle.

tell that to the men in my block.

op, you just trying to say he is innocent cause hes black and your black.

 

[ljlukelj]

I still don't understand the law of intent to sell. Technically if I have intent to sell, I didn't do anything. You should have to be caught selling IMO. Not saying that those with just intent are in the right, but come on, where do you draw the line?

 

[pj and bompton]

Originally Posted by seniosoul

You're committing a crime OP...

 

[mosthated770]

 

[b smooth 202]

Originally Posted by marionthebarberian

Originally Posted by bittersweet

I hate jail because it DOESN'T DO ANYTHING. It's just a place to hold minorities and people they think are threats to the community.

They aren't really helping them ... it's all a cycle.

tell that to the men in my block.

op, you just trying to say he is innocent cause hes black and your black.

the good ol reverse racism arguement huh? go read a book or do a wikipedia search or something..

 

[sundoobie]

Originally Posted by ljlukelj

I still don't understand the law of intent to sell. Technically if I have intent to sell, I didn't do anything. You should have to be caught selling IMO. Not saying that those with just intent are in the right, but come on, where do you draw the line?

I agree and that's where the problem lies.  How do I know if it was his 'intent' to sell?  For all I know he got the money from gambling, picked up all those baggies of crack/coke and was going to party that night.  No one knows but the one charged what his real intentions were. 

Basically the DA's case was the pay/owe book, large amounts of cash in small denominations with no job and multiple baggies = intent to sell.

 

[marionthebarberian]

Originally Posted by B Smooth 202

Originally Posted by marionthebarberian

Originally Posted by bittersweet

I hate jail because it DOESN'T DO ANYTHING. It's just a place to hold minorities and people they think are threats to the community.



They aren't really helping them ... it's all a cycle.

tell that to the men in my block.



op, you just trying to say he is innocent cause hes black and your black.

the good ol reverse racism arguement huh? go read a book or do a wikipedia search or something..

what good is wikipedia gonna do?

 

[brockbo]

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Originally Posted by Harlem On The Rise

What was the racial background of his "jury of his peers"??

If I remember right...

1 elderly white male
6 Asians
3 white females
2 Latinos

dude didnt have a chance not trying to talk bad about any bodys race just stating the facts 1 black on the whole jury

 

[nloc]

what innocence?

 

[ljlukelj]

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Originally Posted by ljlukelj

I still don't understand the law of intent to sell. Technically if I have intent to sell, I didn't do anything. You should have to be caught selling IMO. Not saying that those with just intent are in the right, but come on, where do you draw the line?

I agree and that's where the problem lies.  How do I know if it was his 'intent' to sell?  For all I know he got the money from gambling, picked up all those baggies of crack/coke and was going to party that night.  No one knows but the one charged what his real intentions were. 

Basically the DA's case was the pay/owe book, large amounts of cash in small denominations with no job and multiple baggies = intent to sell.

And furthermore, I think that even if his intentions WERE to sell, that law is null. It seems like a law that is out to simply fill the prisons (as if they aren't full enough). I think it is almost obvious that he had intent to sell, but the problem for me is right there. Who cares if he had INTENT, as long as he hasn't visibly made a sale, that man didn't commit a crime. Now possession on the other hand is a different story.

 

[nako xl]

Originally Posted by ljlukelj

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Originally Posted by ljlukelj

I still don't understand the law of intent to sell. Technically if I have intent to sell, I didn't do anything. You should have to be caught selling IMO. Not saying that those with just intent are in the right, but come on, where do you draw the line?

I agree and that's where the problem lies.  How do I know if it was his 'intent' to sell?  For all I know he got the money from gambling, picked up all those baggies of crack/coke and was going to party that night.  No one knows but the one charged what his real intentions were. 

Basically the DA's case was the pay/owe book, large amounts of cash in small denominations with no job and multiple baggies = intent to sell.

And furthermore, I think that even if his intentions WERE to sell, that law is null. It seems like a law that is out to simply fill the prisons (as if they aren't full enough). I think it is almost obvious that he had intent to sell, but the problem for me is right there. Who cares if he had INTENT, as long as he hasn't visibly made a sale, that man didn't commit a crime. Now possession on the other hand is a different story.

it's called a deterrent.  the government doesn't want anyone POSSESSING illegal drugs period.  add a statute that makes the penalty for being caught with drugs even steeper and people won't risk holding, let alone distributing.

this is why intent laws exist.  so people don't even think about breaking the law.

Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

Originally Posted by bittersweet

I hate jail because it DOESN'T DO ANYTHING. It's just a place to hold minorities and people they think are threats to the community.

They aren't really helping them ... it's all a cycle.

sure it does.
it PUNISHES those who break the law.

exactly.  rehabilitation is just one of the purposes of prison.  it is still meant to actually PUNISH people.