Does KG deserve to be on the All NBA Defensive first team? Vol - 2008?

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by Lizaker4Lizife

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by Lizaker4Lizife

steals and blocks don't tell the story. Look at AI, he led the league in steals a few times, was he a great defender? intercepting a pass or playing weak side defense to block a shot is great, but it doesn't tell the whole story.

I think Kobe is a great one on one defender when the game is on the line.

Can you explain to me why the Lakers defense is more efficient when he is off the court?

[h3][size=-1]On Court / Off Court stats[/size][/h3] [table][tr][td]

[size=-1]Stat[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]ON Court[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]OFF Court[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]Net[/size]​

[/td] [/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]Minutes[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]2957[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]997[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]74%[/size]​

[/td] [/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]105.8[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]104.5[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]+1.4[/size]​

[/td] [/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]Effective FG% Allowed[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]49.4%[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]47.8%[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]+1.6%[/size]​

[/td] [/tr][/table]

oh god. did you go to the hollinger school of basketball analysis? please, you can't be serious. There are so many factors that go into that, you can't put that all on one person.

please be a little more intelligent and stop blindly following all the unnecesarry statistical analyses that flood BSPN nowadays.

Of course all basketball stats require a degree ofsubjective analysis and these numbers may not be 100% accurate but they certainly help paint a picture. I have watch enough of Kobe this year and I though hisdefense was waining way before I looked up these numbers.

There may be a logical explanation why is on/off stats are so wrong and I would love to hear it.

I do know one thing, just about every laker fan seems to be disagree with you and so does every single defensive metric grades Kobe to be mediocre to belowaverage and rather than respond with a well thought out argument you simply question my intelligence and brush the whole thing away.

 

[sylvestermcgrizzly]

wade belonged on the 1st team...not Kobe...i got no problem wit KG being 1st team

 

[onetrust]

at D Wade getting ROBBED!

 

[vanexellent]

It has to be reputation for Kobe still getting All Defense 1st Team or maybe the coaches who vote for it just like a guy playing hard on both ends of thecourt most the time (and overlook the times he lets players he doesnt respect shoot or the times he doesnt switch properly). He didnt have a bad year ondefense and was best when he got to effectively leave his man and play free safety but I dont know about 1st team anymore at this point in career.

 

[Lizakers]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by Lizaker4Lizife

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by Lizaker4Lizife

steals and blocks don't tell the story. Look at AI, he led the league in steals a few times, was he a great defender? intercepting a pass or playing weak side defense to block a shot is great, but it doesn't tell the whole story.

I think Kobe is a great one on one defender when the game is on the line.

Can you explain to me why the Lakers defense is more efficient when he is off the court?

[h3][size=-1]On Court / Off Court stats[/size][/h3] [table][tr][td]

[size=-1]Stat[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]ON Court[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]OFF Court[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]Net[/size]​

[/td] [/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]Minutes[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]2957[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]997[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]74%[/size]​

[/td] [/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]105.8[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]104.5[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]+1.4[/size]​

[/td] [/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]Effective FG% Allowed[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]49.4%[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]47.8%[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]+1.6%[/size]​

[/td] [/tr][/table]

oh god. did you go to the hollinger school of basketball analysis? please, you can't be serious. There are so many factors that go into that, you can't put that all on one person.

please be a little more intelligent and stop blindly following all the unnecesarry statistical analyses that flood BSPN nowadays.

Of course all basketball stats require a degree of subjective analysis and these numbers may not be 100% accurate but they certainly help paint a picture. I have watch enough of Kobe this year and I though his defense was waining way before I looked up these numbers.

There may be a logical explanation why is on/off stats are so wrong and I would love to hear it.

I do know one thing, just about every laker fan seems to be disagree with you and so does every single defensive metric grades Kobe to be mediocre to below average and rather than respond with a well thought out argument you simply question my intelligence and brush the whole thing away.

no I asked you to be more intelligent. those stats are pointless and useless, and they drive BSPN's basketball analysis, it's pretty sad. youcan't say the lakers are a better defensive team without Kobe based on the stats you showed, it's just stupid. too many factors go into that.

and I don't care about what a couple Lakers fans on NT say to disagree with my views, I don't care. that doesn't represent the millions that mayagree with me.

the bottom line is that the experts who voted (30 head coaches) know more about basketball than you, and they voted kobe on the 1st team

 

[(*Fin)]

How does Wade get more votes than Kobe for defensive player of the year honors and yet Kobe takes his spot on the all defensive first team? Kobe's defenseis the most overrated aspect of his game, especially his help defense. Man to man, when he's up to it he is capable of being a lockdown defender. Yet, thiswhole season with the growth of Ariza, Kobe thinks he's doing the Lakers a favor by playing free safety and offering weakside help when he lacks thequickness and instincts to be that type of help defender. We rarely see him have the same impact that Wade or LeBron have as help defenders in terms ofweakside blocks or steals from the passing lanes, even when he was younger. Kobe just needs to let Ariza do all those things because he's better at it andcheck the opposing teams best swingman because he's a better man to man defender. I'm tired of watching Kobe cheat off his man to make no playswhatsoever and hurt the team when his man hits a wide open jumper. I'm not hating Kobe's game, the man is my favorite player playing on my favoriteteam but the Lakers' defense could be so much better if he stuck with his man.

 

[fundamental21ticket]

My man Timmy still getting it done

. Every year since he entered theleague, he's been either on the first or second team.

 

[tmoney85]

Originally Posted by Lizaker4Lizife

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Mine would have been.


1ST

C - Dwight Howard
PF - Kevin Garnett
SF - Lebron James
SG - Shane Battier or Ron Artest. (

@ Kobe)
PG- Rajon Rondo

C - Yao Ming
PF -Tim Duncan
SF - Andre Iguodala
SG - Shane Battier or Ron Artest.
PG- Chris Paul

if you watch every Lakers game like I do, you would see what Kobe does defensively. Just because he doesn't lead the league in steals or blocks (CP3 and Dwight), or make Sportcenter every night with a highlight weak-side block (Lebron) doesnt mean he isn't a great defender.

Kobe gets his hands on a lot of balls (pause), his deflections and his ability to really make the best perimeter player on the other team work very hard in the 4th quarter of close games is what sets him apart.

When the game is on the line, he really gets in your grill and locks you down. Obviously he has lost a step and isn't the defender he once was, but considered how much he is relied upon on offense and how much energy he uses on offense, his defensive ability is AMAZING.

i totally agree. the only player this year to give lebron a very hard time was kobe, but no espn show will admit it. "oh lebron had an off night" uhhno, kobe was hounding him in the fourth

 

[tmoney85]

Originally Posted by Lizaker4Lizife

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by Lizaker4Lizife

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by Lizaker4Lizife

steals and blocks don't tell the story. Look at AI, he led the league in steals a few times, was he a great defender? intercepting a pass or playing weak side defense to block a shot is great, but it doesn't tell the whole story.

I think Kobe is a great one on one defender when the game is on the line.

Can you explain to me why the Lakers defense is more efficient when he is off the court?

[h3][size=-1]On Court / Off Court stats[/size][/h3] [table][tr][td]

[size=-1]Stat[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]ON Court[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]OFF Court[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]Net[/size]​

[/td] [/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]Minutes[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]2957[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]997[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]74%[/size]​

[/td] [/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]105.8[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]104.5[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]+1.4[/size]​

[/td] [/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]Effective FG% Allowed[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]49.4%[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]47.8%[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]+1.6%[/size]​

[/td] [/tr][/table]

oh god. did you go to the hollinger school of basketball analysis? please, you can't be serious. There are so many factors that go into that, you can't put that all on one person.

please be a little more intelligent and stop blindly following all the unnecesarry statistical analyses that flood BSPN nowadays.

Of course all basketball stats require a degree of subjective analysis and these numbers may not be 100% accurate but they certainly help paint a picture. I have watch enough of Kobe this year and I though his defense was waining way before I looked up these numbers.

There may be a logical explanation why is on/off stats are so wrong and I would love to hear it.

I do know one thing, just about every laker fan seems to be disagree with you and so does every single defensive metric grades Kobe to be mediocre to below average and rather than respond with a well thought out argument you simply question my intelligence and brush the whole thing away.

no I asked you to be more intelligent. those stats are pointless and useless, and they drive BSPN's basketball analysis, it's pretty sad. you can't say the lakers are a better defensive team without Kobe based on the stats you showed, it's just stupid. too many factors go into that.

and I don't care about what a couple Lakers fans on NT say to disagree with my views, I don't care. that doesn't represent the millions that may agree with me.

the bottom line is that the experts who voted (30 head coaches) know more about basketball than you, and they voted kobe on the 1st team

Hey Osh Kosh, did you ever consider the fact that kobe was probably not playing in those moments of the game when they had huge leads and the bothteams were playing their benches and hence NOT THEIR STARTERS who were probably better scorers. Or the fact that when kobe sits out an entire 4th quarter,which he usually does, the team is up by a LOT of points and usually in those situation the rest of the laker team starts playign harder (just because thebenchwarmers finally get to play)

also, shannon brown has been his replacement in those big lead situations and he is a great defender in small spurts (like the spurts when kobe would be on thebench during a 20 point lead)

its little things like that which can effect the stats you are displaying. not to mention, look at the difference, i mean you would have to run a statisticalanalysis to ensure that the results arent just by CHANCE ALONE. I mean 1.4 points?? that could be a senseless free throw!!!

 

[tmoney85]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by Lizaker4Lizife

steals and blocks don't tell the story. Look at AI, he led the league in steals a few times, was he a great defender? intercepting a pass or playing weak side defense to block a shot is great, but it doesn't tell the whole story.

I think Kobe is a great one on one defender when the game is on the line.

Can you explain to me why the Lakers defense is more efficient when he is off the court?

[h3][size=-1]On Court / Off Court stats[/size][/h3] [table][tr][td]

[size=-1]Stat[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]ON Court[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]OFF Court[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]Net[/size]​

[/td] [/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]Minutes[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]2957[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]997[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]74%[/size]​

[/td] [/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]105.8[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]104.5[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]+1.4[/size]​

[/td] [/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]Effective FG% Allowed[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]49.4%[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]47.8%[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]+1.6%[/size]​

[/td] [/tr][/table]

as far as "Effective FG% Allowed" goes... suppose they are playing Nuggets and they are up by 19 with 6 minutes left in teh 4th...Kobesits down and at the same time the Nuggets make substitutions too and their lineup goes from Billups, Melo, JR smith, Martin and NeNe to Anthony Carter, JRSmith, Linas Kleiza, Birdman and Steven Hunter...

Now you see that even if the lakers stop playing defense, the nuggets will probably not score.. thus making it seem like Kobe being off the floor makes theopposing offense worse.

 

[nychiphophippo]

cp3 making first team defense

who are the writers that voted for him? those guys CLEARLY aren't doing their jobs and only check stats.

i wonder what billups thinks of this. even byron scott knew he couldn't guard chauncey when he was starting out with Rasual Butler on Billups in games.

their defense was set up so that cp3 can just try to hide in a corner and not get exposed.

Paul is WITHOUT A DOUBT a top 10 overall player in the NBA, arguably top 5...but no way he should be on any all-defensive team this year.

 

[RyGuy45]

My man Timmy still getting it done

. Every year since he entered the league, he's been either on the first or second team.
That man's resume is beyond disgusting

12 seasons

11 All Star Games (No ASG was played in '99)
11 All NBA Team 1st or 2nd Team (No Team announced for this year yet)
12 All NBA Defense 1st or 2nd Team

 

[osh kosh bosh]

People coming up with real responses.

I think you guys are mentioning really exceptional situations that would get evened out over 82 game season, and if were the only stat that said Kobe was amediocre defender I would probably agree but, Defensive rtg says he is the 8th best defender on the lakers, Adjusted Plus/Minus, as well as me watching himplay all tell me the opposite.

I think Kobe is a great defender when he needs to be but because of his offensive responsibilities he uses that time to rest. You don't win award for beinga good defensive player sometimes, you win awards for bringing it every possession.

 

[cruzair13]

i am a kobe fan and laker fan.
but he does not deserve to be on the defensive team.
he's not even the best defender for us.
trevor is and if trevor did make it, i wouldn't be surprised.
but kobe on it just baffles me.

 

[blaxoid]

KOBE?????

 

[arrjae]

at ron artest on 2nd team....

 

[do be doo]

Originally Posted by RyGuy45

My man Timmy still getting it done

. Every year since he entered the league, he's been either on the first or second team.

That man's resume is beyond disgusting

12 seasons

11 All Star Games (No ASG was played in '99)
11 All NBA Team 1st or 2nd Team (No Team announced for this year yet)
12 All NBA Defense 1st or 2nd Team


Timmy is that dude...

plus 4 rings....

 

[kiddin like jason]

Bird only got one vote? Laughable.

J.R. got two, including a first team.

Osh Kosh, post that on/off-court stat for Bird.

 

[theblackhole76]

Originally Posted by Do Be Doo

Originally Posted by RyGuy45

My man Timmy still getting it done

. Every year since he entered the league, he's been either on the first or second team.

That man's resume is beyond disgusting

12 seasons

11 All Star Games (No ASG was played in '99)
11 All NBA Team 1st or 2nd Team (No Team announced for this year yet)
12 All NBA Defense 1st or 2nd Team

Timmy is that dude...

plus 4 rings....

TD seriously deserves a "lifetime achievement award" for the DPOY he has never won.

 

[ill4eva]

I seriously thought I was the only one on the planet that thought Kobedidn't deserve to be on the All Defensive teams for a few years now. Shoot, Phil Jackson even had to hide him in the Finals last year by putting him onRondo. Dude did not want any part of the Truth or Jesus. So now you've got your supposed All NBA Defender guarding a PG who can't shoot a consistentjumper while you leave guys like Radmanovic, Vujacic, and Luke Walton to guard All-Stars in Pierce and Allen?? Cotdamn.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

[h3][size=-1]On Court / Off Court stats[/size][/h3][size=-1]Many stats are shown on a 'per 48 minute'basis
[/size][table][tr][td]

[size=-1]Stat[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]ON Court[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]OFF Court[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]Net[/size]​

[/td] [/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]Minutes[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]1458[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]2486[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]36%[/size]​

[/td] [/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]107.4[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]107.9[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]-0.5[/size]​

[/td] [/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]Effective FG% Allowed[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]46.7%[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]49.6%[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]-2.9%[/size]​

[/td] [/tr][/table]
The nuggets are a pretty good defensive team top to bottom.
Chris Anderson has the best defensive rating on the Nuggets(the 8th most efficient defense) at 101 points per 100 possessions. His adjusted plus minus is -9.55on defense.

 

[kash55]

First of all Kobe does not belong, then maybe perhaps KG.

 

[addict4sneakers]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

[h3][size=-1]On Court / Off Court stats[/size][/h3][size=-1]Many stats are shown on a 'per 48 minute' basis
[/size] [table][tr][td]

[size=-1]Stat[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]ON Court[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]OFF Court[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]Net[/size]​

[/td] [/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]Minutes[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]1458[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]2486[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]36%[/size]​

[/td] [/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]107.4[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]107.9[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]-0.5[/size]​

[/td] [/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]Effective FG% Allowed[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]46.7%[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]49.6%[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]-2.9%[/size]​

[/td] [/tr][/table]
The nuggets are a pretty good defensive team top to bottom.
Chris Anderson has the best defensive rating on the Nuggets(the 8th most efficient defense) at 101 points per 100 possessions. His adjusted plus minus is -9.55 on defense.

meh those stats dont take in account the Scrub Rating. playing against the julian wright's and james singelton's of the league wouldinflate these numbers, right?

nothing against chris andersen though

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by Addict4Sneakers

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

[h3][size=-1]On Court / Off Court stats[/size][/h3][size=-1]Many stats are shown on a 'per 48 minute' basis
[/size] [table][tr][td]

[size=-1]Stat[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]ON Court[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]OFF Court[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]Net[/size]​

[/td] [/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]Minutes[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]1458[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]2486[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]36%[/size]​

[/td] [/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]107.4[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]107.9[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]-0.5[/size]​

[/td] [/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]Effective FG% Allowed[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]46.7%[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]49.6%[/size]​

[/td] [td]

[size=-1]-2.9%[/size]​

[/td] [/tr][/table]
The nuggets are a pretty good defensive team top to bottom.
Chris Anderson has the best defensive rating on the Nuggets(the 8th most efficient defense) at 101 points per 100 possessions. His adjusted plus minus is -9.55 on defense.

meh those stats dont take in account the Scrub Rating. playing against the julian wright's and james singelton's of the league would inflate these numbers, right?

nothing against chris andersen though

Sure. Like I have said many times about basketball stats it all must be taken with a grain of salt and picked apart at every point advanced basketball statsare in their infancy and especially in a sport like basketball where subjective analysis will always be important.

With that being said I've watched the Nuggets, Chris Anderson will gaurd the other teams best big when Kenyon is not on the court. I don't think thatapplies. When you play enough minutes that kinda stuff evens itself out.

 

[i nasmatic i]

Originally Posted by ill4eva

I seriously thought I was the only one on the planet that thought Kobe didn't deserve to be on the All Defensive teams for a few years now. Shoot, Phil Jackson even had to hide him in the Finals last year by putting him on Rondo. Dude did not want any part of the Truth or Jesus. So now you've got your supposed All NBA Defender guarding a PG who can't shoot a consistent jumper while you leave guys like Radmanovic, Vujacic, and Luke Walton to guard All-Stars in Pierce and Allen?? Cotdamn.

The plan was for Kobe to leave Rondo open and help the others guard Pierce and Allen though. It also helped him save energy for offense

(face is at the plan, not you

)