dude loses over 300k on a poker hand..pretty sick (this for poker fans)

[the north west]

I understand what you are trying to say and that most of the top players have a strong understanding of the math aspect of poker

but I think my definition of a "mathematical type" player is different than your definition

oh and boy if you want to talk about taking chips at the table I will gladly play you heads up at your preferred stakes

 

[the north west]

oh and virgil I think I read in one of your past post that you mainly play live (i may have misread)

what is your reasoning behind this

I never understood why someone would prefer to play a live cash instead of playing online where you are at the comfort of your own home, get in much more handsper hour, receive rakeback and much more

is it because you have a much greater edge against the people you play with live compared to the players online and or the ability to get your winningsinstantly

 

[smoothrick007]

Originally Posted by Crank Lucas

blah blah blah alot of useless paragraphs in here but Ill take all of ya chips at the table

do you have a pokerstars account?

 

[crank lucas]

no I dont, I only play with free chips online to toy around, real life = real money

 

[kami]

Originally Posted by smoothrick007

Originally Posted by VirgilMalloy

Originally Posted by smoothrick007

what the hell im freaking lost in all this....none of yall would raise KJ suited?and i hear (or read) that some of yall will fold without hesitation? WTH?..hmm
idk i guess we talking about a different game..im talking about texas hold em

You're talking about games played for nickels and dimes on a kitchen table, which is basically not even the same game as mid or high stakes poker, which in turn isn't even the same game as the nosebleeds.

oh..well all i was saying is if i look at my two cards and see KJ suited, you better believe im going to raise and not just call (well depends on how big the blinds are)...i would hate for the flop to come out K37..and get beat by the big blind who all he had to do was check with his 3-7 because i didnt raise...

Depending on the situation, I would fold KJ suited pretty quick. You are pretty much a dog with any ace.
Of course if it was pre-flop with no raises then it might be a different story.
Played this weekend with some friends and I had KQ suited against ace rag and I didn't hit.

How many of you would fold pocket kings or queens? I had pocket queens in small blinds and got raised all in. Don't know what the hell got into me but Ididn't call instantly. I had to sit there and think for maybe 5 minutes before I just decided to call it. Turns out the other guy had pocket kings. What away to go

 

[kingtre]

that cristal story seems like an old legend...they prob just keep adding numbers to make the story more

not saying that the "businessmen" or PI couldn't afford it...i just find it strange overall

plus the fact that a random steakhouse has over 200 bottles of Cristal on deck is kinda out there too

How many of you would fold pocket kings or queens?
this is another thing- it all depends on some many more variables other than what 2 cards you have in front of you....i've laid down both...QQ more often and JJ all the time depending on the situation

if im holding QQ on the button and raise it and get 3 callers and the board comes out AAK- i check then theres 3 allins ahead of me damn right those QQs aregetting tossed

and somebody can prob find an argument againsit that but again thats poker...at a tableyou have some people playing on emotion, some playing math, some playingdrunk, some showing off, some playing scared, some that just won 5k on a slot ....thats the beauty of the game...

enjoy it- i will (hitting the casino for an overnight midweek getaway 2night)

 

[pacmagic2002]

"Im all in" "HUH????" "Im all in" **Stands up**

 

[crazy ebw]

Man this thread has really jumped overnight. I like it. Seems like we've got a pretty strong conversation going.

I agree with North about his perception of math players. Durrrr is just an agressive monster at the cash games. He always plays super deep from what i'veseen. I think dude is one of the best cash game players in the world already. Just seeing him on TV cash games and playing Full Tilt he just doesn't giveanything away and it's always hard to put him on a hand. I don't think anyone is scared to play him, but I think people play him differently and haveto adjust their game.

When I said I don't base math on my game too much that's exactly what I meant. I've been wanting to buy the book "The Mathematics ofPoker" for a while, but my brain hasn't been ready for it.

I reeealllly want to because i'd like to add that extra element to my game andreally try to take it to the next level. I take Poker far more serious than any of my friends who take it casually at MOST. I haven't spent a lot of timetrying to really build a bankroll and move up stakes but that's what i'll be working on this fall/winter to be ready for next summer at the WSOPhopefully.

 

[craftsy21]

Old clip but a good one... those are the types of hands you always dream of being in, but you have nightmares about being Negreanu in that case... you figureyou're only going to get paid off that much if somebody else has a great hand, so its always going to be rough for one party involved.

Not sure how DN would've played that differently... i'm sure he's run it through his head about a million different ways though by now

 

[crazy ebw]

Easily the most infamous hand in High Stakes Poker history.

(To be clear, THE TELEVISON SHOW not actual nosebleed limits of the game...)

Gus has been MIA at this WSOP for REAL.

 

[mike23theking]

Originally Posted by davidisgodly

JK Suited under the gun, what is your move for 1/2?

Based on the home game I play at regularly:
it's $1/1 blinds, $20-40 initial buy-in (unlimited after that)
usually sit at least 8, but we've played a full 10 plenty of times
there are tight players and there are CS's(calling stations), not to mention a few donkeys.

assuming I was first to act (@ my game and/or if I was sitting $1/2), a small raise wouldn't kill your chip stack regardless of the size/count. This couldbe the very first hand or it could be 3-4 hours in. A $3/4 bump would clear "some" of the riff-raff and garbage cards. Now, if you get RR thenit'd be easy to let go.

I'm surprised to see you guys drop suited paint cards so fast and willingly. He did say 1/2, not 5/10 or some ridiculously high stakes game.

You guys must be the ones who sit and wait for "Aces or better".. Me? Lemme see a flop for a few bucks.

 

[crazy ebw]

Yeah but it's UTG. That's the main thing. I don't trash suited face cards easily but UTG in a full ring game it's really not that profitable ofa move. Generally you should avoid playing big pots out of position and that's really the only thing you can do when making this play. People LOVE to playcards that add to 20. (Any face card/combination of a 10 with face card) and it does nothing but get them in trouble more times than not. KJ is just a more ofa trap hand than it is a profitable one.

Aces or better? Nah, not even. It's just that the KJ would play in your home game is a little different than 1/2 in a casino with grinders and peopleyou've never played with.

But that's cool, i'd love to play your home game if you want to overplay that KJ!!

 

[virgilmalloy]

Originally Posted by the north west

oh and virgil I think I read in one of your past post that you mainly play live (i may have misread)




what is your reasoning behind this




I never understood why someone would prefer to play a live cash instead of playing online where you are at the comfort of your own home, get in much more hands
per hour, receive rakeback and much more




is it because you have a much greater edge against the people you play with live compared to the players online and or the ability to get your winnings
instantly

I mean, it's all on balance. I can play 8 tables at once at home, going through maybe 16 $200-$300 SNG's an hour, winning about 2-3% ROI for ~$100 anhour.

Or, I can play a ridiculously cushy 5-10 or 10-20 live game, and beat that for ~$100 an hour.

Since so many of my winnings live are non-showdown, the variance isn't as sky-high as you might imagine, unlike when you are pushing so many infinitelysmall edges online. Then again, you're playing so many fewer hands, it's awful.


Generally, I prefer to play online, but I've been playing in the WSOP some this summer (one step above mincash in a 1500, bricked a 2000, playing inanother 1500 on Sat, and playing in the Main Event the next weekend) some tourneys, mostly cash games, and the players are SO BAD it's mind boggling.

 

[virgilmalloy]

Originally Posted by AyoKamikaze

smoothrick007 wrote:

---

VirgilMalloy wrote:

---

smoothrick007 wrote:

---

what the hell im freaking lost in all this....none of yall would raise KJ suited?and i hear (or read) that some of yall will fold without hesitation?
WTH?..hmm


idk i guess we talking about a different game..im talking about texas hold em

You're talking about games played for nickels and dimes on a kitchen table, which is basically not even the same game as mid or high stakes poker,
which in turn isn't even the same game as the nosebleeds.




oh..well all i was saying is if i look at my two cards and see KJ suited, you better believe im going to raise and not just call (well depends on how big the
blinds are)...i would hate for the flop to come out K37..and get beat by the big blind who all he had to do was check with his 3-7 because i didnt raise...






Depending on the situation, I would fold KJ suited pretty quick. You are pretty much a dog with any ace.


Of course if it was pre-flop with no raises then it might be a different story.


Played this weekend with some friends and I had KQ suited against ace rag and I didn't hit.

How many of you would fold pocket kings or queens? I had pocket queens in small blinds and got raised all in. Don't know what the hell got into me but I
didn't call instantly. I had to sit there and think for maybe 5 minutes before I just decided to call it. Turns out the other guy had pocket kings. What a
way to go






He's talking about KJo/KJs utg preflop in a full game. It's alwasy a fold.

I've folded AA a couple of times when I was close to the bubble of a satty (i.e. I have 3x the average stack and there are 53 people left in a satty thatpays 50 entries) but that's just b/c I had 'auto fold everything' checked.

You really can't ever fold KK unless you are (a) like 300+ bbs deep or (b) in a really unusual bubble situation where you're like on the button withlike 2bbs in a big tournament where you're on the immediate bubble.

I've folded QQ a bunch of times, pretty standard.

 

[virgilmalloy]

Originally Posted by mike23theking

davidisgodly wrote:

---

JK Suited under the gun, what is your move for 1/2?

Based on the home game I play at regularly:


it's $1/1 blinds, $20-40 initial buy-in (unlimited after that)


usually sit at least 8, but we've played a full 10 plenty of times


there are tight players and there are CS's(calling stations), not to mention a few donkeys.




assuming I was first to act (@ my game and/or if I was sitting $1/2), a small raise wouldn't kill your chip stack regardless of the size/count. This could
be the very first hand or it could be 3-4 hours in. A $3/4 bump would clear "some" of the riff-raff and garbage cards. Now, if you get RR then
it'd be easy to let go.




I'm surprised to see you guys drop suited paint cards so fast and willingly. He did say 1/2, not 5/10 or some ridiculously high stakes game.




You guys must be the ones who sit and wait for "Aces or better".. Me? Lemme see a flop for a few bucks.






Lol, no. I would be shocked if my pfr isn't 10 points higher than anyone else on this site. But raising 72o on the button is a MUCH better play thanraising KJs utg. (or, less bad, I should say)

 

[430AM]

Originally Posted by AyoKamikaze

How many of you would fold pocket kings or queens? I had pocket queens in small blinds and got raised all in. Don't know what the hell got into me but I didn't call instantly. I had to sit there and think for maybe 5 minutes before I just decided to call it. Turns out the other guy had pocket kings. What a way to go

I can lay down QQ and JJ easily... But I've never laid down KK pre-flop. If I have KK and you shove in front of me it's a snap call 100% of the time.

 

[ikari xd]

Originally Posted by Crazy EBW

I agree with North about his perception of math players. Durrrr is just an agressive monster at the cash games. He always plays super deep from what i've seen. I think dude is one of the best cash game players in the world already. Just seeing him on TV cash games and playing Full Tilt he just doesn't give anything away and it's always hard to put him on a hand. I don't think anyone is scared to play him, but I think people play him differently and have to adjust their game.

hows the durrr challenge going?

 

[virgilmalloy]

Originally Posted by ikari XD

Crazy EBW wrote:

---

I agree with North about his perception of math players. Durrrr is just an agressive monster at the cash games. He always plays super deep from what i've
seen. I think dude is one of the best cash game players in the world already. Just seeing him on TV cash games and playing Full Tilt he just doesn't give
anything away and it's always hard to put him on a hand. I don't think anyone is scared to play him, but I think people play him differently and have
to adjust their game.

hows the durrr challenge going?









They just played a monster session and durrrr crushed and is now back in the lead up like 700k:

http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/durrrr-vs-antonius

 

[crazy ebw]

Last time I checked I thought Antonius was ahead but Dwan was closing the gap.

Folding Jacks and Queens really isn't that hard. It's some great starting hands, but i've seen QQ run into AA soooo many times because peoplecouldn't BELIEVE dude had Aces.

I've ran Kings into Aces twice.

 

[virgilmalloy]

Also, this hand aside (giant cooler, nothing that you can do about it) DN is considered one of the worst players in deep stacked high stakes cash games, anddefinitely has a negative overall expectation.

He's a very talented tournament player, where there is more reading, more feel, more extracting vs. bad players and less meta and less math, but he's adefinite dog to these guys in HS cash games.

 

[mike23theking]

Originally Posted by Crazy EBW

But that's cool, i'd love to play your home game if you want to overplay that KJ!!

I never said I'dtake suited K/J to the river w/ my chips. I simply stated that I'd bump it up a slight notch and if I get RR too much, it's an easy lay. C'monbud...


Honestly, my home game or casino...it doesn't matter. I've played Vegas, LA and Indian casinos. I'll still bump up a bit, UTG w/ strangers.
Caesars/Bike: $100-300 table w/ $1/3 blinds? Push about $6/7
Bike: $40 table $1/1 blinds? Bump it to about $3/4

See the flop. If I hit, I hit. If I miss, I miss. It costs me $4-7 to see if I spike the flop. Not much if I'm sitting on a $100-300 table, if you askme.

 

[the north west]

Originally Posted by mike23theking

Originally Posted by Crazy EBW

But that's cool, i'd love to play your home game if you want to overplay that KJ!!

I never said I'd take suited K/J to the river w/ my chips. I simply stated that I'd bump it up a slight notch and if I get RR too much, it's an easy lay. C'mon bud...


Honestly, my home game or casino...it doesn't matter. I've played Vegas, LA and Indian casinos. I'll still bump up a bit, UTG w/ strangers.
Caesars/Bike: $100-300 table w/ $1/3 blinds? Push about $6/7
Bike: $40 table $1/1 blinds? Bump it to about $3/4

See the flop. If I hit, I hit. If I miss, I miss. It costs me $4-7 to see if I spike the flop. Not much if I'm sitting on a $100-300 table, if you ask me.

have you ever considered going pro?

because you sound like a great player

 

[royal airness 29]

All this poker talk n poker threads, I downloaded FullTilt and am up bout $20 already!

Woot woot

 

[virgilmalloy]

Originally Posted by mike23theking

Crazy EBW wrote:

---

But that's cool, i'd love to play your home game if you want to overplay that KJ!!

I never said I'd
take suited K/J to the river w/ my chips. I simply stated that I'd bump it up a slight notch and if I get RR too much, it's an easy lay. C'mon
bud...






Honestly, my home game or casino...it doesn't matter. I've played Vegas, LA and Indian casinos. I'll still bump up a bit, UTG w/ strangers.


Caesars/Bike: $100-300 table w/ $1/3 blinds? Push about $6/7


Bike: $40 table $1/1 blinds? Bump it to about $3/4




See the flop. If I hit, I hit. If I miss, I miss. It costs me $4-7 to see if I spike the flop. Not much if I'm sitting on a $100-300 table, if you ask
me.






And when you get 3bet like 30% of the time you have to dump it without seeing a flop.

And when people limp after you and you get squeezed, you have no idea what to do.

And when you get min 3b and call, and see an AKJ flop, and you bet and get raised, you have no idea what to do.

And when you get 2 callers, and see a KJT flop, and you lead out and get raised, you have no idea what to do.

And when you get 3 callers, and see a K78 flop and lead out and get raised, you ahve no idea what to do.

And when you get 2 callers, and get your PICTURE PERFECT flop of KJ2, and you lead out and they both call, adh te turn is 9, and you lead out and get called orraised, you have NO IDEA WHAT TO DO.



I mean, lol.

 

[430AM]

Originally Posted by VirgilMalloy

Originally Posted by mike23theking

Crazy EBW wrote:

---

But that's cool, i'd love to play your home game if you want to overplay that KJ!!

I never said I'd
take suited K/J to the river w/ my chips. I simply stated that I'd bump it up a slight notch and if I get RR too much, it's an easy lay. C'mon
bud...






Honestly, my home game or casino...it doesn't matter. I've played Vegas, LA and Indian casinos. I'll still bump up a bit, UTG w/ strangers.


Caesars/Bike: $100-300 table w/ $1/3 blinds? Push about $6/7


Bike: $40 table $1/1 blinds? Bump it to about $3/4




See the flop. If I hit, I hit. If I miss, I miss. It costs me $4-7 to see if I spike the flop. Not much if I'm sitting on a $100-300 table, if you ask
me.

And when you get 3bet like 30% of the time you have to dump it without seeing a flop.

And when people limp after you and you get squeezed, you have no idea what to do.

And when you get min 3b and call, and see an AKJ flop, and you bet and get raised, you have no idea what to do.

And when you get 2 callers, and see a KJT flop, and you lead out and get raised, you have no idea what to do.

And when you get 3 callers, and see a K78 flop and lead out and get raised, you ahve no idea what to do.

And when you get 2 callers, and get your PICTURE PERFECT flop of KJ2, and you lead out and they both call, adh te turn is 9, and you lead out and get called or raised, you have NO IDEA WHAT TO DO.



I mean, lol.

In any of those scenarios, more than likely KJ suited is dominated... So like everyone is trying to advise you, Your best bet is to fold.