Early Jordan Release INFO. Its time everyone knows.

[cwk]

This is coming from a reliable source that I can name - me.  I worked for several categories within NIKE Basketball including research and development, sports marketing, and retail.  NIKE does not sell B-grade footwear to any third parties - the internal distribution channels include factory stores and employee stores.  Weartest and look-see samples are either archived or slashed (cut up to prevent resell).  Sales samples used to be sold by NIKE reps to approved "mom and pop" accounts, such as Active Athlete in Houston, but I believe this practice ended a while ago.  Any product manufactured without contractual authorization is in violation of federal trade and copyright laws and is counterfeit - period.  Anyone who purchases counterfeit products is supporting organized crime.

 

[ijapino]

Originally Posted by CWK

This is coming from a reliable source that I can name - me.  I worked for several categories within NIKE Basketball including research and development, sports marketing, and retail.  NIKE does not sell B-grade footwear to any third parties - the internal distribution channels include factory stores and employee stores.  Weartest and look-see samples are either archived or slashed (cut up to prevent resell).  Sales samples used to be sold by NIKE reps to approved "mom and pop" accounts, such as Active Athlete in Houston, but I believe this practice ended a while ago.  Any product manufactured without contractual authorization is in violation of federal trade and copyright laws and is counterfeit - period.  Anyone who purchases counterfeit products is supporting organized crime.

Thanks a ton for this info...This to me sounds like the corporation Nike is....But it still leaves the question unanswered. Why haven't these guys been shut down? Is Nike doing anything against these websites? Or have any plans to shut them down?

 

[cwk]

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
That's the big question.  I would assume that like any other organized criminal activity, there are too many participants that can set up and break down shop at a moment's notice.  I guess NIKE is doing as much as they can within economic feasability.  I've personally reported ebay auctions and websites.  It seems to me like they could shut down the higher traffic websites, but I'm not really familiar with computer forensics.

 

[ijapino]

Originally Posted by CWK

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
That's the big question.  I would assume that like any other organized criminal activity, there are too many participants that can set up and break down shop at a moment's notice.  I guess NIKE is doing as much as they can within economic feasability.  I've personally reported ebay auctions and websites.  It seems to me like they could shut down the higher traffic websites, but I'm not really familiar with computer forensics.

That's what bugs me...They're so quick to shut down these smaller sites but the high traffic ones such as Air Randy, SlamDunkSpace, VMV inc, etc continue to operate. And it's not like these guys just popped up...They've BEEN around. It's also one of the main reasons why I haven't made my stance official on either side. Part of me wants to think they're selling legit shoes but how can you ignore the fact that so many suspect shoes have come from them. But on the otherhand, Nike is one of the biggest corporations in the world, and you don't get that way by always playing by the rules. Nike hasn't always been innocent in their business practices so working some backdoor deals don't seem that far fetched to me. Would they ever admit it? Probably not to save face...I'm just saying it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[23rakim45]

Great insight by CWK, but there's still far too many questions that remain, as ijapino has just highlighted.

 

[ninjahood]

they're obviously grey market kicks....if i wanna cop em early ill do that, but da most important thing these cats do is

drop exclusive pics of sneaker that drop months and months in advance..who ever dont appreciate that is buggin.

 

[cwk]

Yes, NIKE has a long history of questionable business practices, starting at the very beginning with Blue Ribbon Sports/Phil Knight violating non-compete clauses with Onitsuka Tiger

.  But selling "unstamped b-grades" to a third party just doesn't make any sense from a business standpoint.  Why would NIKE lose a cut by involving an external partner when they can sell the b-grades themselves through internal, controlled channels?  It isn't to "create hype" around the shoe prior to its release.  NIKE is already the undisputed global leader in sports marketing and advertising; releasing a small, gray-market production run of a shoe a few weeks before the launch date isn't going to make a difference.

 

[igorot]

^^ Thank you! Some people actually have useful knowledge in here

 

[ijapino]

But selling "unstamped b-grades" to a third party just doesn't make any sense from a business standpoint.

But it does from a DOLLAR standpoint. Let's say we're actually dealing with "unmarked" b-grades or shoes meant to be exposed of. If someone within Nike thinks they can make a few bucks off by selling to suppliers, why not? If this practice is against Nike's policy, it's most likely kept hush-hush. I think this is where the "grey area" term comes in. These shoes were most likely meant to be "destroyed" or taken out of the production line....But instead sold to external sources such as the ones who supply to AR, SDS and VMV...

Why would NIKE lose a cut by involving an external partner when they can sell the b-grades themselves through internal, controlled channels?
This is where it gets questionable and leads me to think that it's someone from within doing backdoor deals. But then it goes back to the original question...Why hasn't Nike shut this operation down?

 

[sourkush]

Wouldn't Nike make more like they do already when they sell a b-grade in the outlet stores ? I guess if u really get into they could be unmarked b-grades to build up hype here and there , isn't the the build date similar to when these sites post pics of the shoes ,around the same time frame?

 

[tree4twenty]

Not only does it not make sense for the fact that Nike sells B-grades themselves in outlet stores, but then you add the fact that the 1st impression customers get of their products is not a good one...Crooked lettering, mistakes and lots of

's...

Makes no sense...Would be overall bad business..

 

[ijapino]

Originally Posted by tree4twenty

Not only does it not make sense for the fact that Nike sells B-grades themselves in outlet stores, but then you add the fact that the 1st impression customers get of their products is not a good one...Crooked lettering, mistakes and lots of

's...

Makes no sense...Would be overall bad business..

Tell that to the hundreds of happy customers who did order from these sites. Or all the people who posted youtube review videos. 1st impressions are only what you make of it. What about the customers who are willing to wait till release date, camp out in the cold over night, miss work/school, fight the mob riots when the doors open up only to get a pair with "crooked lettering, mistakes and lots of

's..." Is that good business?

 

[freshair]

Air Randy actin real suspect on his FB right now lol... Nike finally caught up to him I think..


"WE ARE SORRY TO INFORM YOU ALL THAT OUR WEB STORE IS NOW BEING HACKED AND CRASH DOWN COMPLETELY !!
WE HAD LOST ALL THE TRANSACTION DATA AS WELL AS ALL THE INFORMATION FOR THIS MOMENT !!!
WE DONT THINK WE CAN HAVE OUR WEB STORE BACK IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. THEREFORE WE WILL START TO REFUND"

mmhmm sure randy.. is that even his name? "Randy" lmao

 

[verysteri otypical]

Originally Posted by tree4twenty

Not only does it not make sense for the fact that Nike sells B-grades themselves in outlet stores, but then you add the fact that the 1st impression customers get of their products is not a good one...Crooked lettering, mistakes and lots of

's...

Makes no sense...Would be overall bad business..

That's the thing though, it's not bad for business at all. If it was, then their products, especially the concords will sit on the shelves and rot while we the consumers stand up for quality products and honest business practices...........zzzzzzzzhmzzzhmoh what? Sorry what were you saying, I must have fallen asleep and been dreaming.

 

[dro3000]

Originally Posted by freshair

Air Randy actin real suspect on his FB right now lol... Nike finally caught up to him I think..


"WE ARE SORRY TO INFORM YOU ALL THAT OUR WEB STORE IS NOW BEING HACKED AND CRASH DOWN COMPLETELY !!
WE HAD LOST ALL THE TRANSACTION DATA AS WELL AS ALL THE INFORMATION FOR THIS MOMENT !!!
WE DONT THINK WE CAN HAVE OUR WEB STORE BACK IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. THEREFORE WE WILL START TO REFUND"

mmhmm sure randy.. is that even his name? "Randy" lmao

Im interested to see how these "Refunds" go

I hit the unlike button on his page cause I was sick of seeing his *%$ everytime Im on FB......but I think Im gonna join again just to watch this madness unfold

Either this guy is A) an idiot and decided to put up a site that was easily hacked B) He's got really bad luck with his business starting with the Concord debacle and now this (I highly doubt its his luck

)  Or  (My favorite and the one I think all of us are hoping for) C) NIKE pulled the plug!

 

[tree4twenty]

Originally Posted by verysteri otypical

Originally Posted by tree4twenty

Not only does it not make sense for the fact that Nike sells B-grades themselves in outlet stores, but then you add the fact that the 1st impression customers get of their products is not a good one...Crooked lettering, mistakes and lots of

's...

Makes no sense...Would be overall bad business..

That's the thing though, it's not bad for business at all. If it was, then their products, especially the concords will sit on the shelves and rot while we the consumers stand up for quality products and honest business practices...........zzzzzzzzhmzzzhmoh what? Sorry what were you saying, I must have fallen asleep and been dreaming

Not making the full potential profit off of your product for no good reason (that I know of) = bad business...It's not like they need these sites to hype up shoes. They could go without releasing even a dark pic of the concords and people would still camp out..

EDIT- Nevermind, ignore me. Could be somebody loading them in a truck instead of destroying them...

But don't you think that after YEARS of being "stolen" and sold on the black market, Nike would have found the culprit(s) and taken care of the problem a long time ago?


Do these sites ever have big sizes? 14+?

 

[flood401]

This +%+% sounds funky. Ive stayed away from Air Randy and these guys because you never know with these shisty people anymore. People go dumb when it comes to sneakers i just hope it all get straightened out so the sneaker game returns to being true collectors!

 

[b0r0ugh]

Saw this video on youtube thought it related... My opinion is that 'some' sites are getting b grades and some  are getting fakes.. from where/how. I have no idea... Strange how nike isn't shutting down these huge sites but on a different forum I read that the member got his concords taken down.. he had lots of pictures including the tag.  They were saying most of the other concords on ebay didnt have pics of the tag, so maybe nike wasn't able to take them off? Who knows though..

http://www.youtube.com/wa...Xn4J5kTI&feature=g-u

 

[eddo1005]

...First off, while the INFO CWK provided is great, it is basically what i wouldve expected to hear from someone who has worked for NIKE or still is. Sort of has the "official statement" feel.

Most people should know by now, NIKE is a marketing company first and foremost. Anyone thinking that Nike is a manufacturing company is seriously outdated and needs to get up to speed.

Almost all of Nike's manufacturing is done in Asia, and there are a lot of factories pumping out materials, parts, to supply the assembly line. None of these factories are controlled by Nike, but there are agreements in place that state what these factories arent supposed to do. In theory, early releases should not be happening at all with these agreements, but as we all know theory is quite different from reality. Nike doesnt have 100% over assembly line, nike would be lucky to be able to claim 90% control of all of its products. This is the downside of outsourcing. You expose your technology to 3rd parties, and you run the risk of having these 3rd parties copying it and using it without your consent. Its a dog eat dog world we live in, these factories make very little profit from assembly compared to what nike makes selling its products to the public. Its not inconceivable that someone in these factories are cutting backdoor deals to make a quick buck. I think Nike knows that, and knows it simply cant control everything with business set up the way it is. However, these backdoor deals is not doing major damage to Nike's bottom line, so nike is perfectly ok with the way things are right now. It would take way too much resource on Nike's end to try and control all these factories.

 

[sourkush]

YOU WOULD THINK NIKE BEING AS BIG AND SUCCESFULL AS THEY ARE THEY'D HAVE THERE OWN NIKE FACTORY WHERE THEY CAN CONTROL WHAT'S LEAVING AND COMING IN , BUT THAT'S HOW THEY MAKE THE BIG BUCKS CHEAP LABOR SMH

 

[youngcurse]

awaits rockdeep....

 

[michael0360]

so i read through thread. to me it seems clear that these shoes are a mix of:
1) overproduction pairs unauthorized by nike
2) pairs made in randys backyard with legit parts
3) and a few zombie shoes like the space jams with other shoes carbon fiber

ijapino you seem to think nike is selling these b-grades to randy and SDS.
i highly doubt that for all the reasons above, it really doesnt make sense for NIKE, BUT
it DOES make sense for the guys working in the factory makes 50cents an hour to take these pairs,
and give them to these overseas sellers. nike doest own these factories, theyre not regulating whats going on.
the hype, that has circulated the culture of jb and nike, that is whats causing this predicament.
workers over in china, maybe even the management, sees how thirsty people are for these shoes. and they sell them.
they have the parts, they have the factory, there isnt a nike rep looking over their shoulder.
these shoes are being pulled from the factories and sold to us.

does this make them real or fake?
honestly, i think some of the pairs are real. instead of scrapping pairs that theyd give to nike as a b-grade to sell in an outlet,
they are being taken as an unauthorized pair and sold to us... real? in my opinion, yeah theyre "real".
problem is we truly dont know whats going on over there, and these unauthorized pairs obviously arent regulated..
so if the factory has some extra true blue leather could they use it for some ray allens they know people will buy? of course they can and will
now these pairs id call fake

why is nike not shutting down these websites?
i dont think nike can. i bet theyre trying to, but i doubt its as easy as we think.
china did have those fake apple stores... but also
dont foreget, randy, SDS, VMV these guys arent the only sites selling fakes!
go google buy air yeezy cheap or something. i garuntee youll find pages and pages of sites selling fake shoes! and theyre all located out there in asia
why doesnt nike shut these sites down? theres tons of them. and i think the real answer is, they cant.

 

[nikedealer]

Originally Posted by youngcurse

awaits rockdeep....

I HAD to chuckle when I read the thread starters proclamation of Nike selling B Grades to websites.

I made a LONG post I cant find to reference but it made reference to fakes, and "extra's" leaving from the factories of Nike.

1. There is a HUGE difference between fakes and illegally sold Nikes.

Fakes are made from Fabricated materials OUTSIDE of a Nike website.  There are several grades of Fakes.  People need to get out of the idea that MOLDS are stolen and they are made that way.  A mold is what Nike takes of feet to get an idea of an exact shoe size for their players.

People within Factories are getting ahold of Technical Packages called Tech Packs which are sent from Nike Product Line Managers/ Engineers to their counterpart in different factories.  These files are not encrypted (which is completely possible)

From there the same process used to create a REAL Nike shoe is replicated either in a make shift factory or even at factories AFTER HOURS.  How do I know all this?  From doing ALOT of research when I ran a site called FakePolice.com years ago and working with a few folks within Nike to get a gauge of how the process works and where the failures are in the process.

I proposed a procedure which could save Nike literally BILLIONS in Lost revenue but these things fell on deaf ears, as CWK will attest many folks within the walls hate being told from someone OUTSIDE of NIKE how to FIX something WITHING Nike.

Smaller steps were taken to prevent this as ebay has significantly cut down on the amount of fakes sold on their site due to suits Nike threatened to make.

Next. Many sites get their shoes from actual factory workers who have the access to literally lift a crap load of shoes out in its OFF HOURS.  To be clear.. and this is known by some but realized by many others, that fakes are not  a HUGE terrorist  support mechanism but it IS a huge part of the Asian Mafia. 

Fake Nation has their own set of Designers. Their own set of Product Line Engineers making sure the shoes they produce fit the tooling they make.  Hence the hideous and sometimes intriguing Hybrids and Mash ups you see.

They watch this and other Sneaker Websites to see what it is YOU clamor for that Nike is not producing and make it readily available.  Cole Haans.. Reeboks.. EVERY shoe is replicated.. just not as much as Nike.

Their are other grades of fakes that are done in basements from folks who just do what they can with what they have.

I mean has anyone ever asked the question: Is everyone in Asia BORN with the ability to produce sneakers?  I mean come on.  The same folks IN the legal factories and I say legal when OPEN for business are the same folks working after hours.  This isnt a skill you are born with and THIS and THIS alone is how you can see the difference in the quality of fakes.

For a time their were Jordan XI Concords which were produced in fake nation and still are which NEVER yellowed compared to the REAL Jordans which did. There was a time when Foamposite was made of a HARD sturdy yet malleable material which would eventually fit snug around your foot.  Then Fake nation started producing a softer HORRID version of the Lebron IV which had Foamposite material.

Soon you had Nike making the Foam Lites. Coincidence?

 Listen. There are soooo many layers to this I could write a book.  But to think Nike would SELL their B Grades and NOT stamp them to unknown websites who will sell them early is the MOST absurd crap ever written.

For those asking about why Nike wont shut down certain websites, its because they dont put money into their IP (Intellectual Property) Lawyers . Reebok/Adidas and even New Balance put a large portion of money into keeping sites and factories from producing or selling fake items.  Dolce & Gabanna, Coach and other Industry outlets do the same.

This is something huge that Nike has shown minimal interest in stopping.  As I said before. if Nike isn't interested in doing more.. why should I care?  Instead they want to bust barbershop dudes trying to hustle to make ends meet?  Yeah its not right..... but just like busting drug dealers... they replace them with new runners.

When a site is taken down.. 5 more pop up.  When you sue or bust someone at the flee market or barbershop plenty more will arise selling product.  The means to stop it where it stops.. RIGHT in their building is the problem.

I mean I'll take it a step further... there were dudes selling REAL Nike Product to underground sellers on the PE Market... and all they did at first after a long time was move dude who was doing it to another section of Nike and the dude who let them know about it was fired. lololol.

Im still loyal to my boys who work there so when it comes to making your purchases... yes.. be cautious... but when it comes to Randy.. I guess alot of people forget Air - Randy aka Promo Shoes.. aka Kitty Pig used to all be the same person.....aka Dennis. 

Dennis has ALOT of connections in Asia.. ALOT.  He has the means to ALOT of resources as well.   I'll leave it at that cause Im not one to knock the next mans hustle either..but I'll say this.. at least the shoes he's selling has the EXACT same materials and workers that Nike has....... You do the math...

If Randy were smart...he'd open back up his site.. lower his prices and make a killing because buying early's cool.... but threads like that will make everyone leary of doing it now.

Gain that trust back and go from there.  I dont promote fakes... but I'll never hate on Marquee Sole, or other sites like it because they are hustling just like us here in the states...

But haters gon hate.  Just ask your boy Shaike

 

[phunkyfreesh]

air randy lmao...................

 

[b0r0ugh]

Here's another youtube vid of this dude comparing Cool Grey XI's... retail (pick your shoes) VS 'early release' (VMV inc.) Very detailed video..