ESPN Page 2: Leave the scowl at home, Kobe - By Tim Keown

[ben roethlisberger]

Originally Posted by MJsaver

players that scowl and trash talk after buckets...


Kobe
Lebron
KG
Nate Robinson
JR Smith
Eddie House
D wade
Michael Jordan

i could go on forever, lotta athletes are cocky GET OVER IT.

Can't forget Mike.

All atheletes +!*@$+$+ when they are interviewed. Kobe and LeBron are the TWO best players in the league at the moment. You think when they analytically breakdown a question such as "The Celtics played great defense on you in the first half allowing you just 3 points, but still you finsished with 33 points inthe second half. How were you will able to adjust?" You really think they believe some *#+@%# answer they give them?

Let one of there boys ask him that same question, guarantee they would say some #$@@ like "Becuase I'm the best player in the world and no one canstop me". If people didnt look down upon CONFIDENCE like that then EVERY single athelete wouldnt be so prone to deliver the "media'sanswer". Word to Mike Tyson and Kenny powers

People take things WAAAAAAAY to serious. Its only basketball.

Just my thoughts.

 

[darthska]

DOWNTOWN43:

---

Mister Negative:

---

How is it that Ska is like the only Lakers/Kobe fan that is grounded in reality?

Ska is the opposite of a "Kobe" fan.. he has been hating on Kobe since i first started reading NT years ago. the fact that he will never say anything truly positive about Kobe makes him another Lakers fan who is NOT grounded in reality.
Define 'never', because maybe we have different definitions of the word. To me, 'never' means 'not ever'. What's itmean to you? Because saying that I never say anything positive about Kobe is... well... that's just not true at all, guy.

I can say this with a certain amount of confidence, though: I've said more positive about Kobe than you've said about me.

So at best, you're just as much of a hater about someone you don'tknow.

Kettle. Pot. Black.

 

[prettyplaya]

LOL at kobe keep saying battier can't guard him.

more like he wants to BELIEVE that he can't guard him.

Its kinda like lil wayne saying hes the best rapper alive when he's clearly not. he just wants to believe that he's the best.

it's human nature. many people want to be the best, but when they're not, they can at least beleive they are.

I cannot say battier can shut down kobe everytime.

BUT he can definitely check him.

kobe forcing shots to score on him isn't dominating battier.

the one he did with off the backboard was one of the most unnecessary moves i've seen in a long time. LOL

good job kob.

 

[CP1708]

On a West Coast trip in 1986, Bird told the entire Dallas Mavericks bench that after the time out, Ainge would inbounds the pass to DJ, who would hit Bird in the corner where Bird would step back and take a three. "So you got that?" Bird queried the bench. "I'm gonna stand right here. I'm not going to move. They'll pass me the ball, and the next sound you here will be the ball hitting the bottom of the net." And that's exactly what happened. Bird winked at the Maverick before heading back down to the other end of the court.
That is ABSOLUTE G.

 

[prettyplaya]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

Mister Negative:

---

How is it that Ska is like the only Lakers/Kobe fan that is grounded in reality?

Not at all. There are plenty of Lakers fans on here that you can have reasonable discussion with, whether the topic is pro-Lakers, anti-Lakers, pro-Kobe, anti-Kobe, pro-LeBron, anti-LeBron, or what have you.

Yeah, there are Kobe stans and Laker stans, but there are also Bobcat fans who honestly think in their mind that next year, the Bobcats will be in the Finals.


Stop lying.

 

[mister negative]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

TennHouse2:

---

its a lose/lose for him if he tries to be funny and joke around he being forced and phoney/ if he tries to be competitive and scowl after baskets he being forced and phoney....

Somewhere in the middle is 'Don't be what you think you need to be to repair your image or be marketable. Just be yourself. And don't make it such an obvious point to let everyone know how unbelievably amazing and spectacular you are and how no one is on your level; just pay the game the way you play and we'll all see how spectacular you are and that VERY few people are on your level.'

But I'm just restating what was said in the article.


I dont usually do this but QFT...

Since Kobe has entered the league he has been 1 of the most guarded & self shielded superstars in the game... If it wasn't for that 1 night in CO wherehe missed the hole

I honestly think son would still be the same way hewas... Only since that day was Kobe started this image rebuilding & the act is straight phony... He showed his true colors when he threw Shaq under the buslike a straight up #$%...

Dudes can go all the way back to LowerMarion days about how weird son was from the beginning...

Did you just start watchin basketball in this years playoffs? (no troll real q here)

& my dude Downtown you bring up excellent points but you know what the difference between Bird talkin trash to Chuck & this instance with Kobe... Birdwas talkin to the opposing coach while Phony Kobe screamed these things AT THE COMMENTATORS. TWICE.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Mister Negative


If it wasn't for that 1 night in CO where he missed the hole

I love NT.

 

[franchise3]

Oh snaps, word. That is a total g move by Bird.

 

[xalexshanex]

Originally Posted by Mister Negative


I dont usually do this but QFT...

Since Kobe has entered the league he has been 1 of the most guarded & self shielded superstars in the game... If it wasn't for that 1 night in CO where he missed the hole

I honestly think son would still be the same way he was... Only since that day was Kobe started this image rebuilding & the act is straight phony... He showed his true colors when he threw Shaq under the bus like a straight up +*%...

Dudes can go all the way back to Lower Marion days about how weird son was from the beginning...

Did you just start watchin basketball in this years playoffs? (no troll real q here)

Can you post some stuff up about the Lower Merion HS days?

I still disagree with you and think that you have provided very little if any constructive points to the debate, but I think you might be onto actually puttinga point across.

Let's keep it going.

 

[frenchblue23]

Originally Posted by PRETTYPLAYA

LOL at kobe keep saying battier can't guard him.

more like he wants to BELIEVE that he can't guard him.

Its kinda like lil wayne saying hes the best rapper alive when he's clearly not. he just wants to believe that he's the best.

it's human nature. many people want to be the best, but when they're not, they can at least beleive they are.

I cannot say battier can shut down kobe everytime.

BUT he can definitely check him.

kobe forcing shots to score on him isn't dominating battier.

the one he did with off the backboard was one of the most unnecessary moves i've seen in a long time. LOL

good job kob.

Ah, I expected to see you comment, because no Kobe discussion can go down without you giving your 2 cents

If the Colorado incident didn't happen, I'm sure the scowling would be compared by NT and the media, as equal to the great MJ.

Lebron is the Prince in the NBA who can do no wrong for now, and hopefully he embraces it for as long as he can.

And yes, there are some Laker fans who can have a reasonable discussion with other fans, except if that person is YOU. Because you stay one sided on yourhate for Kobe and anything Lakers.

 

[darthska]

How do you tell a team 'I'm going to stand right here. Not going to move. I'm going to stand right here... and hit a 3', and then stand rightthere, and hit a 3?

 

[downtown43]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

DOWNTOWN43:

---

Mister Negative:

---

How is it that Ska is like the only Lakers/Kobe fan that is grounded in reality?

Ska is the opposite of a "Kobe" fan.. he has been hating on Kobe since i first started reading NT years ago. the fact that he will never say anything truly positive about Kobe makes him another Lakers fan who is NOT grounded in reality.
Define 'never', because maybe we have different definitions of the word. To me, 'never' means 'not ever'. What's it mean to you? Because saying that I never say anything positive about Kobe is... well... that's just not true at all, guy.

I can say this with a certain amount of confidence, though: I've said more positive about Kobe than you've said about me.

So at best, you're just as much of a hater about someone you don't know.

Kettle. Pot. Black.

you know what, forget it. i edited my post, i shouldn't have called you out for no reason

Originally Posted by franchise3

Oh snaps, word. That is a total g move by Bird.

yet if Kobe did those same things, you would be on here saying "smh... we know he can score and all but he doesn't have to be an a-holeabout it.. smh Kobe you phony a-hole

"

am i right?

the only difference is that Bird was beloved by the media, and trash talk was actually acceptable in his day, but now those same behaviors make you a"jerk."

 

[acbboyz84]

who the hell is this dude Tim Keown ? Stupidest article i ever read

Kobe sure does have a lot of haters

 

[prettyplaya]

Originally Posted by FrenchBlue23

Originally Posted by PRETTYPLAYA

LOL at kobe keep saying battier can't guard him.

more like he wants to BELIEVE that he can't guard him.

Its kinda like lil wayne saying hes the best rapper alive when he's clearly not. he just wants to believe that he's the best.

it's human nature. many people want to be the best, but when they're not, they can at least beleive they are.

I cannot say battier can shut down kobe everytime.

BUT he can definitely check him.

kobe forcing shots to score on him isn't dominating battier.

the one he did with off the backboard was one of the most unnecessary moves i've seen in a long time. LOL

good job kob.

Ah, I expected to see you comment, because no Kobe discussion can go down without you giving your 2 cents

If the Colorado incident didn't happen, I'm sure the scowling would be compared by NT and the media, as equal to the great MJ.

Lebron is the Prince King in the NBA who can do no wrong for now, and hopefully he embraces it for as long as he can.

And yes, there are some Laker fans who can have a reasonable discussion with other fans, except if that person is YOU. Because you stay one sided on your hate for Kobe and anything Lakers.

did i just see mj in a same paragraph as kobes?

fixed at the end.

 

[downtown43]

Originally Posted by Mister Negative

& my dude Downtown you bring up excellent points but you know what the difference between Bird talkin trash to Chuck & this instance with Kobe... Bird was talkin to the opposing coach while Phony Kobe screamed these things AT THE COMMENTATORS. TWICE.

how is talking to the commentators any more or less "phony" than talking to the coach? in both cases, the intent was for the defender tooverhear the comments spoken about him and get riled up. there is really no difference. you are simply reaching.

and you can't honestly believe Kobe is the first and only player to ever talk to the commentators.

 

[lawdog1]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

DOWNTOWN43:

---

Mister Negative:

---

How is it that Ska is like the only Lakers/Kobe fan that is grounded in reality?

Ska is the opposite of a "Kobe" fan.. he has been hating on Kobe since i first started reading NT years ago. the fact that he will never say anything truly positive about Kobe makes him another Lakers fan who is NOT grounded in reality.
Define 'never', because maybe we have different definitions of the word. To me, 'never' means 'not ever'. What's it mean to you? Because saying that I never say anything positive about Kobe is... well... that's just not true at all, guy.

I can say this with a certain amount of confidence, though: I've said more positive about Kobe than you've said about me.

So at best, you're just as much of a hater about someone you don't know.

Kettle. Pot. Black.

Ska, I know you probably know this, but you are not alone. While they definitely are in the minority, there are plenty of people who love theLakers but aren't big Kobe fans. My brother is the same way. Unfortunately, I dislike Kobe enough that I've had a hard time rooting for the Lakerssince it became "his" team. Anyway, my point is that "Laker fan" does not equal "Kobe defender." The team had die hard fansbefore he got her and will long after he leaves.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

DOWNTOWN43:

---

Mister Negative:

---

How is it that Ska is like the only Lakers/Kobe fan that is grounded in reality?

Ska is the opposite of a "Kobe" fan.. he has been hating on Kobe since i first started reading NT years ago. the fact that he will never say anything truly positive about Kobe makes him another Lakers fan who is NOT grounded in reality.

Define 'never', because maybe we have different definitions of the word. To me, 'never' means 'not ever'. What's it mean to you? Because saying that I never say anything positive about Kobe is... well... that's just not true at all, guy.

I can say this with a certain amount of confidence, though: I've said more positive about Kobe than you've said about me.

So at best, you're just as much of a hater about someone you don't know.

Kettle. Pot. Black.

you know what, forget it. i edited my post, i shouldn't have called you out for no reason

Originally Posted by franchise3

Oh snaps, word. That is a total g move by Bird.

yet if Kobe did those same things, you would be on here saying "smh... we know he can score and all but he doesn't have to be an a-hole about it.. smh Kobe you phony a-hole

"

am i right?

the only difference is that Bird was beloved by the media, and trash talk was actually acceptable in his day, but now those same behaviors make you a "jerk."


I think 20 years from now people will listen to stories similar to this about Kobe and think it's awesome and hilarious and all that too.

I really do.

I hated Larry in the day.

I hated Mike too.

Why, because they fought against Magic for all the marbles.

But today, this day, I can sit back and watch Bird games, and MJ games and go "damn, this dude was somethin."

And I promise you, someday that day will come for all the people who hate Kobe. They gonna sit back and just be like "damn, he put on a show". Igot my money's worth when I watched dude play.

He'll always be an a-hole, but still.

Thas just how I see it. Maybe because I'm older too. When you're young it's hard to seperate hate from appreciation in the heat of the moment.

 

[vanexellent]

I enjoy Bills Simmons' articles and podcasts but it just an opinion. And like the other article by Tim Keown about Kobe's scowl.. I have trouble justreading an article about percieved behavior and how a person can measure someone else's insecurities by they way the look on the court. As a Laker fan Idont care what face he makes or what other gestures he makes if they are following a made basket that leads to winning the game. If it was the case of havingtoo much swagger and not having game to back it up (ie Smush or Chucky Atkins) then I would object. Thats why I have a problem with Laker fans who dont likeKobe. They like the team and like when the team wins but they dont like the actions of the team's best player. If they win its inspite of his antics andwhen they lose its Kobe's fault. You cant have it both ways.

But again we are not talking about Kobe ability to play basketball but his perceived behavior...which I believe makes some insecure people uncomfortable andothers it makes them cheer harder. Whatever motivates him & makes him score and makes me as a Laker fan even more hyped then Im dont mind at all.

 

[darthska]

DOWNTOWN43:

---

franchise3:

---

Oh snaps, word. That is a total g move by Bird.

yet if Kobe did those same things, you would be on here saying "smh... we know he can score and all but he doesn't have to be an a-hole about it.. smh Kobe you phony a-hole

"

am i right?

the only difference is that Bird was beloved by the media, and trash talk was actually acceptable in his day, but now those same behaviors make you a "jerk."
I know you weren't talking to me right there, but that's not the only difference. A major difference between Bird saying that and Kobemaybe saying that is that Bird was like that all the time back then. He wasn't trying to be this guy who said things like 'So which one of you is goingto come in second in the 3-pt. contest today?' on Monday, and then trying to be Mr. Congeniality on Tuesday.

If you're going to be a jerk, be a jerk, man; you'll have a fanbase of people who like the arrogant, crass style of people like Bird and Namath.

If you're going to be a congenial, smooth operator, then be that, and you'll have a fanbase of people who like the combination of talent and likabilityseen in people like David Robinson and Joe Montana.

But if you're going to try to blend the two, portraying yourself as this trash-talking 'jerk' during the game, then portraying in interviews asthis politically-correct character who respects his opponents and teammates, then dogging the center you won championships and later getting caught in parkinglots trashing your current franchise center, all while doing more interviews trying to come off as this respectable figure who respects opponents andteammates... it's just all too contradictory and conflicting to be genuine. Surely you can see the inconsistencies in all that.

Whoever he is, whether he's really more of a jerk than we see, or more of a nice guy than we see, if he would just stick with that and not worry aboutbeing the other characteristic, he would definitely be a lot more appreciated, in my opinion.

 

[franchise3]

Downtown, let's be real for a second.

Nobody can stop Kobe, just like nobody can stop the rest of the greats. All you can do, all Shane can do is try and guard him well. And he's been doingthat. Kobe hasn't really attacked the rim nor got to the line. That is a feat in itself.

Blame game 1 on him being sick or whatever, but he had a quiet 32 points. An inefficient 32 pts. Lakers lose game 1.

Game 2, like I've said, all props to Kobe. He put his team on his back and made sure they didn't lose the game.

With that said, while all the greats get amped up and whatnot when they're hot, the only reason this article was written was because Kobe was getting toohyped for the whole 48 mins. We all saw it.

He was saying all that jazz, to Shane, to the cameras, to the crowd, to even Doug Collins of all people. Harlan even asked him, what do you think sparked it,for hin to say it Doug's way. Doug didn't even know. It's one thing to get emotional about your play, but for a whole 48 mins yelling 'Hecan't guard me' ?

Game 3 rolls around on the road, another stellar game. Game 4, Shane outplays him.

Like I said a page or two back, it'd be lame if Kobe brings that nonsense again, game 2 stuff, into this game, considering the game 4 he had.

When he's on, it's you can't guard me. When he's not, game 1 and 4, silent as a mouse.

Yeah, ok, Kobe..

 

[chunkyboys1]

Originally Posted by JordanXI45

I respect Kobes game but this article is dead on TRUTH. Only Laker fans will deny it.

Jordan made the whole world love him. Kobe can't get anyone outside of Los Angeles to give him respect.

did u watch the olympics??? kobe is very well respected and popular outside of LA!!!

 

[lakersfan1]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

DOWNTOWN43:

---

franchise3:

---

Oh snaps, word. That is a total g move by Bird.

yet if Kobe did those same things, you would be on here saying "smh... we know he can score and all but he doesn't have to be an a-hole about it.. smh Kobe you phony a-hole

"

am i right?

the only difference is that Bird was beloved by the media, and trash talk was actually acceptable in his day, but now those same behaviors make you a "jerk."
I know you weren't talking to me right there, but that's not the only difference. A major difference between Bird saying that and Kobe maybe saying that is that Bird was like that all the time back then. He wasn't trying to be this guy who said things like 'So which one of you is going to come in second in the 3-pt. contest today?' on Monday, and then trying to be Mr. Congeniality on Tuesday.

If you're going to be a jerk, be a jerk, man; you'll have a fanbase of people who like the arrogant, crass style of people like Bird and Namath.

If you're going to be a congenial, smooth operator, then be that, and you'll have a fanbase of people who like the combination of talent and likability seen in people like David Robinson and Joe Montana.

But if you're going to try to blend the two, portraying yourself as this trash-talking 'jerk' during the game, then portraying in interviews as this politically-correct character who respects his opponents and teammates, then dogging the center you won championships and later getting caught in parking lots trashing your current franchise center, all while doing more interviews trying to come off as this respectable figure who respects opponents and teammates... it's just all too contradictory and conflicting to be genuine. Surely you can see the inconsistencies in all that.

Whoever he is, whether he's really more of a jerk than we see, or more of a nice guy than we see, if he would just stick with that and not worry about being the other characteristic, he would definitely be a lot more appreciated, in my opinion.



i usually always agree with u but that is pretty dumb saying if he acts all cocky on the court he should act all cocky in the interview? Why everyone fakes theinterview he gets interviewed twice a game (if they are winning) you think hes gonna be a little +%%%! to the interviewer he just acts how he should when hegets interviewed.

 

[Deleted member 38182]

Originally Posted by vanexellent

I enjoy Bills Simmons' articles and podcasts but it just an opinion. And like the other article by Tim Keown about Kobe's scowl.. I have trouble just reading an article about percieved behavior and how a person can measure someone else's insecurities by they way the look on the court. As a Laker fan I dont care what face he makes or what other gestures he makes if they are following a made basket that leads to winning the game. If it was the case of having too much swagger and not having game to back it up (ie Smush or Chucky Atkins) then I would object. Thats why I have a problem with Laker fans who dont like Kobe. They like the team and like when the team wins but they dont like the actions of the team's best player. If they win its inspite of his antics and when they lose its Kobe's fault. You cant have it both ways.

But again we are not talking about Kobe ability to play basketball but his perceived behavior...which I believe makes some insecure people uncomfortable and others it makes them cheer harder. Whatever motivates him & makes him score and makes me as a Laker fan even more hyped then Im dont mind at all.

QFT. I'm pretty sure the article was about Kobe being fake and what not......not about whats acceptable cuz Payton and Jordan did it (they didit because thats just who they were, it genuine personality; not fake as the article suggests).

But IMO i do agree with the article, that Kobe's 'scowl' seems fake and forced but at the same time like Vanexcellent put it about how are wesupposed to judge someones insecurities by they way the look on the court.

 

[CP1708]

Anyone remember Kobe in game 4 vs Utah in the first round?

Remember how much he sucked in game 3, so in game 4 he came out and was so on fire, he coulda shot golf balls and they still woulda swished thru. One of hisgreatest performances imo, he was blazing.

Dude never said a word. Never even cracked a smile. He hit shot after shot after shot and just kept going. Didn't talk to nobody.

Can I get a breakdown on how this mixes in with his fake personality? Maybe 3500, 4500 word essay due by the end of the day please?

Nothing fancy, just since we feel the need to break down every detail of who the guy is and how he does things, and for what reasons, and all that, in theinterest of fairness, can I have that article?

U.S. is gettin crazy. UFO's, who shot JFK, economy woes, is Kobe really a tough guy, big foot, so many myths to uncover around here.

 

[darthska]

Lakersfan1:

---

23ska909red02:

---

If you're going to be a jerk, be a jerk, man; you'll have a fanbase of people who like the arrogant, crass style of people like Bird and Namath.

If you're going to be a congenial, smooth operator, then be that, and you'll have a fanbase of people who like the combination of talent and likability seen in people like David Robinson and Joe Montana.

But if you're going to try to blend the two, portraying yourself as this trash-talking 'jerk' during the game, then portraying in interviews as this politically-correct character who respects his opponents and teammates, then dogging the center you won championships and later getting caught in parking lots trashing your current franchise center, all while doing more interviews trying to come off as this respectable figure who respects opponents and teammates... it's just all too contradictory and conflicting to be genuine. Surely you can see the inconsistencies in all that.

Whoever he is, whether he's really more of a jerk than we see, or more of a nice guy than we see, if he would just stick with that and not worry about being the other characteristic, he would definitely be a lot more appreciated, in my opinion.

i usually always agree with u but that is pretty dumb saying if he acts all cocky on the court he should act all cocky in the interview? Why everyone fakes the interview he gets interviewed twice a game (if they are winning) you think hes gonna be a little +%%%! to the interviewer he just acts how he should when he gets interviewed.
Does anyone accuse Barry Bonds or Albert Belle or Dennis Rodman of being fake or contrived? Hell no. Now, if you're a jerk, then just lettingyour hair down and being a jerk all the time might not be the most marketable decision in the world, but beingsomething that sells is exactly what being 'contrived' is about (trying to be something that you're really not, for whatever reason).

There are plenty of stories out there of Bird saying stuff like 'I'm going to stand right here, Mavericks, and hit a 3,' but he was like that allthe time.

Again: are there any stories accusing Bird of being fake, being cocky one minute and trying to be all Mr. Nice Guy on the court the next minute? Nope. He waswho he was on the court, it earned him the respect of a TON of fans, and he won championships being exactly who he is, without trying to be something else.