ESPN Page 2: Leave the scowl at home, Kobe - By Tim Keown

[Deleted member 38182]

^Well put sir

 

[CP1708]

Shaq?

Didn't Shaq used to yell out at the crowd about who was flopping, who couldn't guard him, he was the mighty Shazzam, and all that, but then he was anice gentle giant in interviews? Funny quotes and the whole nine?

Isn't Shaq STILL doing stuff like that to this day?

(Well, not today today, the Suns are all on vacation for the summer, but I meant early in this season.)

The regular season

When the Suns were still playing.

A long time ago.

 

[kingjay718]

My sig says it all.

I hope Kobe goes for 40+ tonight, and the Lakers win.

 

[vanexellent]

But if you're going to try to blend the two, portraying yourself as this trash-talking 'jerk' during the game, then portraying in interviews as this politically-correct character who respects his opponents and teammates, then dogging the center you won championships and later getting caught in parking lots trashing your current franchise center, all while doing more interviews trying to come off as this respectable figure who respects opponents and teammates... it's just all too contradictory and conflicting to be genuine. Surely you can see the inconsistencies in all that.
Its hard today to have it both ways due to ESPN, the internet and blogging. You now see both sides and get to judge for yourself which is realand what is fake. Not to drag Jordan into this but thats an example of media overlooking certain things while he had a shoe companies ad agency making him outto be a certain way (with only gossip and an actual book to try and tell us otherwise...not something instantaneous like a blog, online article or messageboard...but a book you had to buy from a store and invest time in reading). Hell, Jordan had a movie with him playing along side cartoon characters and itdidnt show him punch Daffy Duck or out womanizing with Buggs Bunny. Imagine the whole gambling scandal and retirement theories in todays world. Then you wouldhave these stories by writers on off days between playoff games trying to analyze someones insecurities.

Again: are there any stories accusing Bird of being fake, being cocky one minute and trying t be all Mr. Nice Guy on the court the next minute? Nope. He was who he was on the court, it earned him the respect of a TON of fans, and he won championships being exactly who he is, without trying to be something else.

Bird played in a time when the media didnt report on his off the court behavior or try to analyze what how his mind worked. They didnt bring uphis drinking or daughter out of wedlock because it had nothing to do with his on the court play. And yes he talked trash and even had Dr J trying to choke himfor saying he would score 100 on him. Of course he wouldnt have to play Mr Nice guy in commercials for NBA cares and when he did try to rap in a commercial itwas forced and trying to be something he wasnt.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Shaq is not gentle giant in interviews. Didn't he call the Sac Kings the queens in an interview?, and Eric Dampier, Erica in an interview? Didn't heCURSE ON LIVE TV???

Shaq douchebaggery takes on all forms.

 

[lawdog1]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

DOWNTOWN43:

---

franchise3:

---

Oh snaps, word. That is a total g move by Bird.

yet if Kobe did those same things, you would be on here saying "smh... we know he can score and all but he doesn't have to be an a-hole about it.. smh Kobe you phony a-hole

"

am i right?

the only difference is that Bird was beloved by the media, and trash talk was actually acceptable in his day, but now those same behaviors make you a "jerk."
I know you weren't talking to me right there, but that's not the only difference. A major difference between Bird saying that and Kobe maybe saying that is that Bird was like that all the time back then. He wasn't trying to be this guy who said things like 'So which one of you is going to come in second in the 3-pt. contest today?' on Monday, and then trying to be Mr. Congeniality on Tuesday.

If you're going to be a jerk, be a jerk, man; you'll have a fanbase of people who like the arrogant, crass style of people like Bird and Namath.

If you're going to be a congenial, smooth operator, then be that, and you'll have a fanbase of people who like the combination of talent and likability seen in people like David Robinson and Joe Montana.

But if you're going to try to blend the two, portraying yourself as this trash-talking 'jerk' during the game, then portraying in interviews as this politically-correct character who respects his opponents and teammates, then dogging the center you won championships and later getting caught in parking lots trashing your current franchise center, all while doing more interviews trying to come off as this respectable figure who respects opponents and teammates... it's just all too contradictory and conflicting to be genuine. Surely you can see the inconsistencies in all that.

Whoever he is, whether he's really more of a jerk than we see, or more of a nice guy than we see, if he would just stick with that and not worry about being the other characteristic, he would definitely be a lot more appreciated, in my opinion.

Another difference is that Bird didn't make it so obvious that he was talking trash. He did it quietly. I've watched the NBA for a longtime and did not know that Bird was a huge trash talker until someone told me. I guess what I'm saying is that Bird wasn't doing it to make himselflook like a tough guy (like Kobe appears to be), but only to get in his opponent's head.

 

[kingjay718]

CP3 was sayin' the same thing, when he was torching Jason Kidd last year in the playoffs. Double standard. But hey, that's life, when you're KobeBryant.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by vanexellent

Its hard today to have it both ways due to ESPN, the internet and blogging. You now see both sides and get to judge for yourself which is real and what is fake. Not to drag Jordan into this but thats an example of media overlooking certain things while he had a shoe companies ad agency making him out to be a certain way (with only gossip and an actual book to try and tell us otherwise...not something instantaneous like a blog, online article or message board...but a book you had to buy from a store and invest time in reading). Hell, Jordan had a movie with him playing along side cartoon characters and it didnt show him punch Daffy Duck or out womanizing with Buggs Bunny. Imagine the whole gambling scandal and retirement theories in todays world. Then you would have these stories by writers on off days between playoff games trying to analyze someones insecurities.

This, is an excellent post. And hard to argue against.

 

[tmukg21]

whats wrong with a calculating person?
there are times for trash talk (last few games) and respect (see NY game 61 points, he spoke to no one )

Who on the court can really stop him? 1-3 can 'slow' him up, and he still drops 30 points in those games

MJ was cocky , so is kobe . that is life.

 

[downtown43]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

DOWNTOWN43:

---

franchise3:

---

Oh snaps, word. That is a total g move by Bird.

yet if Kobe did those same things, you would be on here saying "smh... we know he can score and all but he doesn't have to be an a-hole about it.. smh Kobe you phony a-hole

"

am i right?

the only difference is that Bird was beloved by the media, and trash talk was actually acceptable in his day, but now those same behaviors make you a "jerk."
I know you weren't talking to me right there, but that's not the only difference. A major difference between Bird saying that and Kobe maybe saying that is that Bird was like that all the time back then. He wasn't trying to be this guy who said things like 'So which one of you is going to come in second in the 3-pt. contest today?' on Monday, and then trying to be Mr. Congeniality on Tuesday.

If you're going to be a jerk, be a jerk, man; you'll have a fanbase of people who like the arrogant, crass style of people like Bird and Namath.

If you're going to be a congenial, smooth operator, then be that, and you'll have a fanbase of people who like the combination of talent and likability seen in people like David Robinson and Joe Montana.

But if you're going to try to blend the two, portraying yourself as this trash-talking 'jerk' during the game, then portraying in interviews as this politically-correct character who respects his opponents and teammates, then dogging the center you won championships and later getting caught in parking lots trashing your current franchise center, all while doing more interviews trying to come off as this respectable figure who respects opponents and teammates... it's just all too contradictory and conflicting to be genuine. Surely you can see the inconsistencies in all that.

Whoever he is, whether he's really more of a jerk than we see, or more of a nice guy than we see, if he would just stick with that and not worry about being the other characteristic, he would definitely be a lot more appreciated, in my opinion.

how is this any different from MJ trying to appear like a smooth golden-boy family man in the public, but behind closed doors cheating on hiswife, trashing his teammates (and even punching them in the face), and being addicted to gambling?

most NBA players will have "inconsistencies" between their public and private lives... it's just that Kobe's, by several strokes (no punintended) of misfortune, were more out in the open.

imagine if one of MJs side pieces had cried rape during his playing days... imagine if there was a candid video tape of him punching Steve Kerr or trashingteammates (i'm sure you've seen it, but there's a long list of quotes of him trashing teammates or people in the Bulls organization)... imagine ifhis gambling problems had come out in the open during his career... etc etc... would we still look at MJ the same? would MJ himself maybe have felt compelledto change his personality or the way he acts in order to defend himself from the hatred he would have received? we don't know. but at least think aboutyour comments, and consider whether you are maybe being too hard on Kobe in this instance.

Originally Posted by franchise3

When he's on, it's you can't guard me. When he's not, game 1 and 4, silent as a mouse.

i will just summarize your post to that sentence...

how much organized basketball have you played in your life? based on your post, i'm going to have to assume not much.

uhh... what basketball players is going to talk trash when they're having a bad game?

ya'll don't even make sense with the hate now...

whats wrong with a calculating person?
there are times for trash talk (last few games) and respect (see NY game 61 points, he spoke to no one )

Who on the court can really stop him? 1-3 can 'slow' him up, and he still drops 30 points in those games

MJ was cocky , so is kobe . that is life.

this is another good point.

Kobe has busted other people's %$@@! plenty of times, and he doesn't always act like that. look at the Mavs 63 in 3 quarter, 81 points, 61 on theKnicks this season... he had the game face on the whole time.

but come to Game 4 of the Lakers vs Rockets series, he has the hot hand, he's feeling pretty upbeat that day, and the trash talk starts to flow out alittle bit, and escalates more and more as the game goes on. now he's some cocky arrogant a-hole who can't back up his trashtalk, blah blah? because ofone game?

 

[mister negative]

Originally Posted by KingJay718

CP3 was sayin' the same thing, when he was torching Jason Kidd last year in the playoffs. Double standard. But hey, that's life, when you're Kobe Bryant.

Bad example fam... people been sayin CP was an +!!+#*% since schoolyard days in Winston Salem

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Mister Negative

Originally Posted by KingJay718

CP3 was sayin' the same thing, when he was torching Jason Kidd last year in the playoffs. Double standard. But hey, that's life, when you're Kobe Bryant.

Bad example fam... people been sayin CP was an +!!+#*% since schoolyard days in Winston Salem

Yo yo yo, put the 3 in there man, put the 3 in there.

Gonna gimme abad rap here brother.

 

[eeibaby]

Its part of Kobes personality, he just wants it to be known that hes the best. Like one thing I notice about Kobe, about 99.9% of the time when he getsschooled while playing defense, he would want the ball right away on the offensive end and would try to take it to that player. I just think Kobe re-watchesthe games and listens to what the commentators says, he seems like the type of player who let things like that get to him

 

[franchise3]

I don't even hate Kobe. I think dude is the best in the game.

All I was getting at, is,

1. The only reason this article was written was because Kobe had this demeanor and talked trash for the WHOLE 48 mins. Really, who does that?

2. It'd be lame if he did it again CONSIDERING the game 4 he had.

 

[fro b giant]

Post starter & Bill Simmons = Hate Kobe

Kobe fans = Mad because they like Kobe

All I got to say about this is, Bill Simmons is a Celtic fan, hates the Lakers and hates Kobe.

Why spend your time on hating something when you can spend that same time and effort loving something instead. Why not write a piece on the Celtics and theiryear or their playoff run? Oh because he would rather focus on Kobe because people will read that. So really he is only writing about what people will read notwhat is true to his heart....Isn't that fake? Isn't his writing a facade?

If not and Kobe is really of chief importance to him, what a sad person spending all their time worrying about what Kobe Bryant does and how he acts. I lovehow he writes to make us all feel like he wishes Kobe was a likable guy. I am pretty sure that no matter what, Bill Simmons wouldn't like Kobe......Wait okmaybe if he was a Celtic he wouldn't mind.

 

[crossisom]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Shaq?

Didn't Shaq used to yell out at the crowd about who was flopping, who couldn't guard him, he was the mighty Shazzam, and all that, but then he was a nice gentle giant in interviews? Funny quotes and the whole nine?

Isn't Shaq STILL doing stuff like that to this day?

(Well, not today today, the Suns are all on vacation for the summer, but I meant early in this season.)

That's Shaq's personality though, outgoing and flamboyant. Kobe does it like he's trying to prove a point, because outside of thecourt, like in interviews and stuff he tries to seem so laid back and preserved.

 

[xalexshanex]

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43


most NBA players will have "inconsistencies" between their public and private lives... it's just that Kobe's, by several strokes (no pun intended) of misfortune, were more out in the open.

Agreed.

Forget NBA Players...we all do.

Apparently, having more than one side to your personality or changing moods in today's truman show that celebrities have to live makes you a"phony".

If Kobe needs to stop being phony then the NBA should stop doing those NBA Cares commercials. Most of those players probably would not be there if itweren't league mandated. And besides...if they are going to keep NBA cares then the players should not speak trash on the court...because that'sclearly not their true personality especially if they are going out and doing things for charity.

I think it's safe to say that this "phony" argument is stupid.

 

[JD617]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Nothing he said was wrong, Kobe be muggin since he first stepped on the court. It is what it is.

But Simmons himself is full of s***. That peice of sh*^ talks bad about anyone he feels like, the second they become Celtics, they're great.

I like Simmons, he's a smart dude, but I don't listen to one single second of his opinions on players other then on the actual court.

If you don't beleive me, look how wonderful KG and Ray Allen became once they put on Celtic green. Look how wonderful a coach Doc Rivers is now that they are winning.

So F Simmons.

Simmons still throws jabs at Doc. He was furious that Doc had Tony Allen in the game late in the 4th quarter against Chicago (I can't even remember whichgame with all the damn overtimes

). He also ripped him for having BigBaby guard Rashard Lewis coming out of a timeout late in Game 4 against Orlando. He wrote a column about KG while he was still in Minnesota about how much of ashame it was that McHale had surrounded him with inadequate talent for basically his whole career. As far as Ray, he admitted that he had no idea how good hewas until he came to the Celtics.

 

[darthska]

vanexellent:

---

But if you're going to try to blend the two, portraying yourself as this trash-talking 'jerk' during the game, then portraying in interviews as this politically-correct character who respects his opponents and teammates, then dogging the center you won championships and later getting caught in parking lots trashing your current franchise center, all while doing more interviews trying to come off as this respectable figure who respects opponents and teammates... it's just all too contradictory and conflicting to be genuine. Surely you can see the inconsistencies in all that.
Its hard today to have it both ways due to ESPN, the internet and blogging. You now see both sides and get to judge for yourself which is real and what is fake. Not to drag Jordan into this but thats an example of media overlooking certain things while he had a shoe companies ad agency making him out to be a certain way (with only gossip and an actual book to try and tell us otherwise...not something instantaneous like a blog, online article or message board...but a book you had to buy from a store and invest time in reading). Hell, Jordan had a movie with him playing along side cartoon characters and it didnt show him punch Daffy Duck or out womanizing with Buggs Bunny. Imagine the whole gambling scandal and retirement theories in todays world. Then you would have these stories by writers on off days between playoff games trying to analyze someones insecurities.
There actually is a major difference, in my opinion: Jordan didn't come into the league as this character attempting to be a trash-talkingfigure who disrespected opponents and teammates in talk and in play on the court while also trying to be cool with those same opponents and teammates off thecourt. He was this flashy, lethal player being drafted to a team with virtually no real successes to stand on, and he acted like it. Kobe was drafted 13th on ateam that he may or may not have refused to play for/demanded to be traded from and ended up on a team RICH in NBA history, a team that was perfectly finebefore him... but he definitely didn't act like it.

It's like, in the same way that people say 'It's not cocky if you're that good', I'm saying 'It's not too much to act likeyou're the shhh and your team really needs you if they actually do.'

I'm not saying I agree with that notion (I absolutely don't); I'm just trying to put my perspective in a quick phrase.

 

[lawdog1]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Shaq is not gentle giant in interviews. Didn't he call the Sac Kings the queens in an interview?, and Eric Dampier, Erica in an interview? Didn't he CURSE ON LIVE TV???

Shaq douchebaggery takes on all forms.

Excellent point. Shaq's behavior is actually pretty consistent when you think about it. He disrespects people just as often in interviews ashe does on the court. You mentioned some of the good ones, but lets not forget about calling Tim Duncan the "Big Fundamental," referring to Yao as"Wang Shou" and talking like he was in a karate movie and, more recently, calling San VanGundy a broken navigational system.

Shaq's pretty much a clown at all times . . . and I'm a fan of his.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by CROSSISOM

Originally Posted by CP1708

Shaq?

Didn't Shaq used to yell out at the crowd about who was flopping, who couldn't guard him, he was the mighty Shazzam, and all that, but then he was a nice gentle giant in interviews? Funny quotes and the whole nine?

Isn't Shaq STILL doing stuff like that to this day?

(Well, not today today, the Suns are all on vacation for the summer, but I meant early in this season.)

That's Shaq's personality though, outgoing and flamboyant. Kobe does it like he's trying to prove a point, because outside of the court, like in interviews and stuff he tries to seem so laid back and preserved.

I know man, I'm just throwin stuff out there during the course of the convo. Ska had said something about players bein diff on the court then off, andsome of Shaq's antics fit the profile. Deep down, Shaq is a great dude based on all his charity work and what not he does. I wasn't tryna compare thetwo.

Anyhoo, who feels that every single game now we getta see Kobe get a kiss from his darling wife while he walks back to the tunnel, that is contrived?

Real kiss, fake kiss? She washes her lips right after? She wants me? True or false?

 

[knightngale]

LeBron's: transcendent, mostly pure and emanating outward.
@@@ is that? I stopped reading after that

this dude is worse than pretty playa

 

[fro b giant]

^ LOL

 

[fundamental21ticket]

Originally Posted by vctry20

 

[franchise3]

Fake kiss I think.

So goes the life of an NBA wife