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So what set of parents are worse? Leaving Neverland or Abducted in Plain Sight?
HBO Michael Jackson doc 'Leaving Neverland'
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by Arthur Shelby,
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Tough choice but I'mma go with Plain Sight parents.
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When a grown man calls you in the middle of the night telling you to bring your small child over to his crib for a sleepover because he's feeling lonely, you hang that **** up and call the cops
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I'm not buying that. She ain't doing interviews with the people that accused Weinstein, Spacey, Brain Singer etc. She missed the R Kelly train now she gotta jump on this one. That's all it is.
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Both just as culpable...
Worse though? Hard to say...Plain Sight Parent’s at least involved the authorities...Can’t say that for the Neverland group...
The mothers that were interviewed for Neverland literally made me sick as they spoke...The one mother who toured with Mike was almost giddy when she was recounting some of her experiences...To sit there and say she thought it was strange that her room kept getting moved further and further away from the room her son shared with Michael, and follow that up with she didn’t think anything bad was happening was absurd...
Don’t even get me started on the mother from Australia...
Notice how the negative aspects of their stories started to show more when they got to the point of recounting how Michael was moving away from their children?
Bottom line is they were both on the gravy train and put the well being of their children on the back burner while they lived with that touch of fame and fortune...
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are yall mad at oprah?
this is what she does
its like asking lebron not to play ball
or nfl players not to play
this is what she does
its like asking lebron not to play ball
or nfl players not to play
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Oprah should have had the MJ estate on instead of the accusers. She could ask them specific questions taken from what was said in the doc.
That way HBO could say that they are offering two competing narratives and leaving things for the viewer to decide.
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I’m hoping in part two they get to why these two men were character witnesses for Mike during his last trial...But I’m not thinking they’ll touch on that...
It’s sad but the only reason anybody is saying anything now / didn’t say anything before is money...Getting paid to keep quiet then and hoping to get paid for sensationalizing the experiences now...
I mean when the mom is voicing her frustration at the fact that Mike didn’t pay for her LA weekly apartment it shows where the priorities were for these people...
I was legit nauseous when the Australian grandma recounted how she thought the sunrise over the lake and flower gardens at Neverland were heaven or how she was first able to see snow on that Mike funded trip...She’s sitting back fondly remembering her experiences of the time...The same exact time her grandson was being molested...
It’s sad but the only reason anybody is saying anything now / didn’t say anything before is money...Getting paid to keep quiet then and hoping to get paid for sensationalizing the experiences now...
I mean when the mom is voicing her frustration at the fact that Mike didn’t pay for her LA weekly apartment it shows where the priorities were for these people...
I was legit nauseous when the Australian grandma recounted how she thought the sunrise over the lake and flower gardens at Neverland were heaven or how she was first able to see snow on that Mike funded trip...She’s sitting back fondly remembering her experiences of the time...The same exact time her grandson was being molested...
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Plain Sight. Man let a KNOWN pedophile lay in bed with his daughter because "therapy."
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Just my opinion but a lot of ignorance being floated around this entire thing...
I think the parents come off as the worst of the lot here, that I agree with. But when you dig deep into how this stuff works you realize that, sadly, more parents than not would have fallen for this exact scheme in the MJ 1980's. So that needs to be taken into account.
I do not think Michael was a serial abuser. I think he selected his kids accordingly. I think kids like the Home Alone kid, or even Corey Feldman were not "hit on" by Michael - it's possible they were indeed friendly and that's it. Those child actors were established stars at the time. Michael even probably idolized THEM in a way. But the kids such as these two in this documentary, or the kids who previously were involved in Michael's trials, were small-time kids who could be manipulated to no end. They were weak - Michael knew it. And Michael clearly obsessed over secrecy and the best kids to keep secrets were ones who came from no money, no friends, and needed Michael. Culkin was not in that group.
Bill Cosby, to me, was a similar abuser. For the most part the women he abused at that time came from much different backgrounds and/or "needed" him to further their career or be a mentor (in his eyes). Those women were small-time to Cosby. Do you know who was not considered small-time to Cosby? The women in his main TV cast. And according to them he never once caused any trouble with them. These were already established women who were in his circle and there was a respect factor there. This is something to think about when people say "But Home Alone kid said he never was abused, these other kids must be lying."
Anyway, as far as MJ was concerned it is pretty clear his childhood experiences led to his adult behaviors. We've all heard the abuse and mental games that Michael had to experience as a child, a little child, and I can't imagine what that game was like. But what resulted from that was how Michael chose to deal with it: He never grew up. It was clear decades ago that Michael didn't want to be an adult and just wanted to stay a child because he never got to be one. So with this mental state he also still looked at children as attraction to him. His social life, his "friends" were a lot of children. And when Michael got sexual urges....well, he was likely still attracted to children....because to him HE was a child. I am no psychologist but to me Michael never truly intended to be a big bad molester. In his own mind.
So....Are these accusers lying? We were not there, so the true iron clad answer will never be known. But it's pretty clear to me their stories are credible. It almost pains them that they have to be the ones to report what went on because they feel they are letting everyone down, and also letting themselves down. From the grave Michael is still manipulating these guys.
And for the people saying "but look at the lying these boys did in the past" please realize this is not an hour and a half TV movie with a perfect story line. If there is anything we have learned the last few years it's that when it comes to abuse, and especially sexual abuse, concerning people who were manipulated by people they admired, there is no perfect linear way of "reporting" what went on...or even telling the truth. You blame yourself, you become embarrassed, you let people down, and lastly (and almost as importantly) you have to admit to the world in this case that "I did gay acts with a man" and they have to get into detail. These boys wanted to protect Michael because they thought that was the appropriate thing to do for their idol.
If this entire saga is true down to the last details described, this is one of the saddest things I have ever seen.
I think the parents come off as the worst of the lot here, that I agree with. But when you dig deep into how this stuff works you realize that, sadly, more parents than not would have fallen for this exact scheme in the MJ 1980's. So that needs to be taken into account.
I do not think Michael was a serial abuser. I think he selected his kids accordingly. I think kids like the Home Alone kid, or even Corey Feldman were not "hit on" by Michael - it's possible they were indeed friendly and that's it. Those child actors were established stars at the time. Michael even probably idolized THEM in a way. But the kids such as these two in this documentary, or the kids who previously were involved in Michael's trials, were small-time kids who could be manipulated to no end. They were weak - Michael knew it. And Michael clearly obsessed over secrecy and the best kids to keep secrets were ones who came from no money, no friends, and needed Michael. Culkin was not in that group.
Bill Cosby, to me, was a similar abuser. For the most part the women he abused at that time came from much different backgrounds and/or "needed" him to further their career or be a mentor (in his eyes). Those women were small-time to Cosby. Do you know who was not considered small-time to Cosby? The women in his main TV cast. And according to them he never once caused any trouble with them. These were already established women who were in his circle and there was a respect factor there. This is something to think about when people say "But Home Alone kid said he never was abused, these other kids must be lying."
Anyway, as far as MJ was concerned it is pretty clear his childhood experiences led to his adult behaviors. We've all heard the abuse and mental games that Michael had to experience as a child, a little child, and I can't imagine what that game was like. But what resulted from that was how Michael chose to deal with it: He never grew up. It was clear decades ago that Michael didn't want to be an adult and just wanted to stay a child because he never got to be one. So with this mental state he also still looked at children as attraction to him. His social life, his "friends" were a lot of children. And when Michael got sexual urges....well, he was likely still attracted to children....because to him HE was a child. I am no psychologist but to me Michael never truly intended to be a big bad molester. In his own mind.
So....Are these accusers lying? We were not there, so the true iron clad answer will never be known. But it's pretty clear to me their stories are credible. It almost pains them that they have to be the ones to report what went on because they feel they are letting everyone down, and also letting themselves down. From the grave Michael is still manipulating these guys.
And for the people saying "but look at the lying these boys did in the past" please realize this is not an hour and a half TV movie with a perfect story line. If there is anything we have learned the last few years it's that when it comes to abuse, and especially sexual abuse, concerning people who were manipulated by people they admired, there is no perfect linear way of "reporting" what went on...or even telling the truth. You blame yourself, you become embarrassed, you let people down, and lastly (and almost as importantly) you have to admit to the world in this case that "I did gay acts with a man" and they have to get into detail. These boys wanted to protect Michael because they thought that was the appropriate thing to do for their idol.
If this entire saga is true down to the last details described, this is one of the saddest things I have ever seen.
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That's not how child abuse works. These kids were pre pubescent aged and led to believe by MJ (an adult larger than life pop icon) that this type of behavior was okay, but to "pinky swear" to keep it a secret.
They even described the abuse as almost bonding in nature.
I've worked with survivors of abuse and this dynamic is not out of the ordinary.
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These dudes accusations are crazy
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It is really interesting to see the difference in the way that people are responding to the MJ documentary as opposed to the R Kelly documentary. Especially considering that both men were placed on trial and acquitted.
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And both parents had a sexual relationship with the accuser.
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I find the excessive pushback toward this documentary hilarious. It almost feels like people are just burying their head in the sand about this because they don’t want to believe.
I really thought we did this already and came to the conclusion that Mike was ****ed up and probably did some foul things.
I really thought we did this already and came to the conclusion that Mike was ****ed up and probably did some foul things.
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This
He was above this because he could moonwalk.
How many of these defenders would have dude around their kid.
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So what so we do with all the proof that these dudes are lying? I think people are dismising it because this is 25+ years of the same dudes going back changing their stories. Thes ain't new cases. I've said many on here that Mike was doing weird **** and put himself in a terrible position, had MJ fans in their feelings and at the same time I can't ignore the fact that his "accusers" have been proven liars over all these years.
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But why, the estate did a damn press run leading up to the release of this documentary.
What are they going to say other than to deny the accusations again?
It really feels like people are just mad at the circumstances.
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Victims of abuse, especially child abuse, will defend their abusers.
This is not to say they're not lying NOW, but it's really not as complicated as you're making it seem
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See my being upset at the whole thing is directed squarely at the parents here...
Mike was messed up...People knew it in the 80’s and they know it now...I think if anything, the pushback really speaks to how massive a star he was at the time...Fans can’t see anything other than that even through to today...Unfortunately he used that same type of appeal to do some very sick things and again, the parents involved are 100% culpable to that...
Mike was messed up...People knew it in the 80’s and they know it now...I think if anything, the pushback really speaks to how massive a star he was at the time...Fans can’t see anything other than that even through to today...Unfortunately he used that same type of appeal to do some very sick things and again, the parents involved are 100% culpable to that...
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Disgusting, unethical hit piece. Shame on hbo.
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Rest in peace mike
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That's in the air yes, I hear you.
But ask yourself this. Would it be possible (not probable, but possible) that these boys could have been abused in the way they describe... but were so messed up by it that they acted strangely for years after? Is it possible Michael got to them and begged them to lie for him? And they agreed? That might seem weird to me and you...but is it possible?
If what happened to Wade was really true, and he was getting sexually abused by Michael Jackson at SEVEN years old....think of what his mental state would be like for the rest of his life. Seriously think about this.
One thing I will respond to this with is.... in Mike's hey day he was not looked at as the weird MJ we think of now. In 1987 I assure you MJ was a god who just had a little lighter skin....nothing else. At that time people thought he should win the Nobel Prize, beyond his music. Michael "helped" children...never would hurt them.
