HBO: The Last of Us (Season 2 is a go)...Sundays @ 9PM EST...Pedro Pascal&Bella Ramsey=Joel&Ellie...NO SPOILERS IF YOU'VE PLAYED THE GAMES

[superblytrife]

I’d say the barometer usually involves how the straight men, in said forced LGBTQ+ involved content, are treated.

Had this episode been made by Disney, Pedro would’ve probably acted like a goofball and Ron Swanson would’ve belittled him with sarcasm during lunch. Hell, they probably wouldn’t included scenes like him getting zapped by the electric fence when he came in or something silly

Man what? This is a very weird take.

 

[jaypesoz]

Man what? This is a very weird take.

It is what it is. You know why you asked that question and I said what I said. Not sure what insightful answer you were looking for on a sneaker website?

 

[superblytrife]

It is what it is. You know why you asked that question and I said what I said. Not sure what insightful answer you were looking for on a sneaker website?

Ahh yes, the old sneaker forum excuse lol. Maybe you can’t form one, but I’ve seen plenty of NTers come with insightful replies. Speak for yourself.

 

[kingkoopa]

Wow WOW!!!!!

This **** is amazing and now I want to play the game.

Sheeesh!

 

[Sinner]

 

[reconic supreme]

Episode 3 done. Wow!

First great episode of the show imo. Love that it divulges from the game in both subtle and massive ways. The show takes advantage of its medium that’s not really all that possible in a game.

 

[jetpacunlimited]

I always wonder what people’s barometer for “forcing” LGBTQ+ stuff is. Like what’s the gauge for that?

If the Bill/Frank stuff wasn’t originally in the game, would you still be saying it was “natural and progressive”? Because that story could’ve easily been a man/woman and nobody would bat an eye.

And how do we determine when it’s needed and “not needed”? Like LGBTQ+ folks exist—how can we as non-LGBTQ+ people (presumably) say your story isn’t needed in this moment? I wonder if they say the same thing about the portrayal of straight couples?

Broke Back Mountain is a good example of progressive narrative where it concerns LGBTQ+. As is Moonlight, Boys don’t cry, Dallas Buyers Club etc. There’s nothing wrong with LGBTQ+ when they are represented in the correct way. The problem is forcing those agendas when they don’t. Oh hey look, SpongeBob is Gay!!! . No need for that, that character has been around decades and now all of a sudden it’s a bandwagon jump for inclusiveness. Same with Robin being gay etc etc.

It’s a shame that writers take the easy and cheesy route and don’t really develop characters with substance. Euphoria is a perfect example of a story that has an LGBTQ+ character with substance and excellent writing.

As for your question. Even if Bill and Frank didn’t exist in the game, the story being told in that episode is a great love story and (forgive me if this sounds repetitive) has a natural progression of love and substance.

It’s about as bad as movies and TV shows now that force black characters to be uber afraid of cops(I am black btw). Like we get it bruh, but that just ain’t real.

If you’re going to take what I wrote as an agenda that LGBTQ+ shouldn’t be allowed unless it serves a purpose then; shame on me I didn’t articulate my opinion well enough. I believe that community deserves proper writing that includes depth and substance. Not just a “hey look this person is trans, or gay etc”. To me that’s a slap in the face of progression and a cheap way to say “hey look we included a member of the LGBTQ+ community!”. This episode nailed is from a narrative stand point (game aside) it was a pure story of love and commitment to one’s partner AND THATS WHY it’s garnering universal praise.

 

[jetpacunlimited]

Gay people simply existing is "forced" and "woke".

Extremely short sighted take. Please read above.

 

[superblytrife]

jetpacunlimited thanks for the well thought out response and clarification. Well said, sir. I think we’re on the same page. See jaypesoz NTers can give insightful answers.

I feel like sometimes having a non-fleshed out LGBTQ+ character can be misconstrued as an “agenda” though. That’s why I say that those folks exist in everyday life, so they should exist in film/TV just the same. Sometimes in real life you know someone is gay and sometimes you don’t. And you keep it movin’. Not every LGBTQ+ character needs development, just as not every straight or black or disabled person does. Hope that makes sense.

 

[jetpacunlimited]

jetpacunlimited thanks for the well thought out response and clarification. Well said, sir. I think we’re on the same page. See jaypesoz NTers can give insightful answers.

I feel like sometimes having a non-fleshed out LGBTQ+ character can be misconstrued as an “agenda” though. That’s why I say that those folks exist in everyday life, so they should exist in film/TV just the same. Sometimes in real life you know someone is gay and sometimes you don’t. And you keep it movin’. Not every LGBTQ+ character needs development, just as not every straight or black or disabled person does. Hope that makes sense.

Preesh bro.

I def agree with that too, I think of Queen and Slim where there was a LGBTQ+ person in the movie. No real substance or subplot to the character but she was def a representation of everyday life and it was perfect. So i’m not toooo critical on that. My issues come from forced representation. The newer Star Trek comes to mind. Mr Sulu? I wanna say, it wasn’t until the third film (after pressure from fans that there were no LGBTQ+ character representation) that we see him leave the ship and hug his husband. So for three full movies my mans was just out here now all of a sudden he’s written in as gay? That’s such a cop out to me. Like come on bruh… Do that community some damn justice.

 

[deusavertat]

Extremely short sighted take. Please read above.

Theres nothing "deep" about what you said. No one is going on these rants when it is a heterosexual love story. Thats my point.

 

[deusavertat]

jetpacunlimited thanks for the well thought out response and clarification. Well said, sir. I think we’re on the same page. See jaypesoz NTers can give insightful answers.

I feel like sometimes having a non-fleshed out LGBTQ+ character can be misconstrued as an “agenda” though. That’s why I say that those folks exist in everyday life, so they should exist in film/TV just the same. Sometimes in real life you know someone is gay and sometimes you don’t. And you keep it movin’. Not every LGBTQ+ character needs development, just as not every straight or black or disabled person does. Hope that makes sense.

I dont think EVERY minority character "NEEDS" development. But I think its some people's privilege to overlook the impact of seeing characters like this on screen. Even in their limited exposure it will be viewed as an "agenda" or "forced" by people who are either bigoted or have limited exposure to these individuals in real life. I dont see an agenda, I just saw a beautifully crafted love tragedy. Jim Bob from rural Mississippi would have a different perspective. To someone like me who actually talks to his gay friends about their relationships this is normal. To that guy from Alabama this is an agenda to normalize or "force" aberrant behavior. Blame the Jews.

 

[jetpacunlimited]

Theres nothing "deep" about what you said. No one is going on these rants when it is a heterosexual love story. Thats my point.

Yea we do. It’s just not noticed because it is heterosexual. I could give you a ton of examples or sloppy writing and horribly forced shipping in films. Better example would be older films where Hollywood wanted to be diverse and include black actors, yet they had no idea how to tell black stories. It’s the same concept in which I speak of now.

I dont think EVERY minority character "NEEDS" development. But I think its some people's privilege to overlook the impact of seeing characters like this on screen. Even in their limited exposure it will be viewed as an "agenda" by people who are either bigoted or have limited exposure to these individuals in real life. I dont see an agenda, I just saw a beautifully crafted love tragedy. Jim Bob from rural Mississippi would have a different perspective. To someone like me who actually talks to his gay friends about their relationships this is normal. To that guy from Alabama this is an agenda to normalize aberrant behavior.

I think the ability to separate WHY things are viewed as an “agenda” vs what you THINK they are is important. If you read what I wrote (which is why I said read above) you’d have a better understanding of what I was saying. However to willfully chose to ignore engaging conversation because you THINK you know a mindset is damn near the same logic you ironically are using to condemn someone based on a perceived bias.

The irony here is EVERYTHING you said in your response, I said the same. You were just so triggered by what your THOUGHT I meant that you formed your own opinion and ran with it. Kinda like real bigots do to the LGBTQ+ community.

I have multiple friends from that community including two very close lifelong best friends so forgive me if I want to see them portrayed in a favorable fashion and not just a tacky add on (ie similar to how Blacks were used as stereotypes earlier in Hollywood history).

I was Born in Alabama btw. Raised in GA. Maybe listen more, talk less.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Yea we do. It’s just not noticed because it is heterosexual. I could give you a ton of examples or sloppy writing and horribly forced shipping in films. Better example would be older films where Hollywood wanted to be diverse and include black actors, yet they had no idea how to tell black stories. It’s the same concept in which I speak of now.



I think the ability to separate WHY things are viewed as an “agenda” vs what you THINK they are is important. If you read what I wrote (which is why I said read above) you’d have a better understanding of what I was saying. However to willfully chose to ignore engaging conversation because you THINK you know a mindset is damn near the same logic you ironically are using to condemn someone based on a perceived bias.

The irony here is EVERYTHING you said in your response, I said the same. You were just so triggered by what your THOUGHT I meant that you formed your own opinion and ran with it. Kinda like real bigots do to the LGBTQ+ community.

I have multiple friends from that community including two very close lifelong best friends so forgive me if I want to see them portrayed in a favorable fashion and not just a tacky add on (ie similar to how Blacks were used as stereotypes earlier in Hollywood history).

I was Born in Alabama btw. Raised in GA. Maybe listen more, talk less.

According to GLAAD's media report, LGBT people are actually over represented in media relative to the actual population.

Last I saw 12% of regular appearing characters are LGBT, compared to around 5-6% of the US population.


I would actually argue there is an "agenda."
and the "agenda" is market forces.

aside from loud minority on twitter, people like diverse casts.
and the market is delivering what people want.

 

[jetpacunlimited]

According to GLAAD's media report, LGBT people are actually over represented in media relative to the actual population.

Last I saw 12% of regular appearing characters are LGBT, compared to around 5-6% of the US population.


I would actually argue there is an "agenda."
and the "agenda" is market forces.

aside from loud minority on twitter, people like diverse casts.
and the market is delivering what people want.

It would help if y’all read what I wrote. All of this has been touched on. Don’t assume the point i’m trying to get across.

 

[deusavertat]

According to GLAAD's media report, LGBT people are actually over represented in media relative to the actual population.

Last I saw 12% of regular appearing characters are LGBT, compared to around 5-6% of the US population.


I would actually there is an "agenda."
and the "agenda" is market forces.

aside from loud minority on twitter, people like diverse casts.
and the market is delivering what people want.

The percentage of LGBTQ people in this country is highly unreliable for obvious reasons. The most recent stat says 7.1 percent. Very high at 20 percent for gen Z. If you account for all these factors seeing 12 percent gay people in TV shouldnt be bothering people that much.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

The percentage of LGBTQ people in this country is highly unreliable for obvious reasons. The most recent stat says 7.1 percent. Very high at 20 percent for gen Z. If you account for all these factors seeing 12 percent gay people in TV shouldn't be bothering people that much.

1. the gen-z numbers are obviously pure nonsense.

2. ultimately whats in peoples hearts doesn't really matter
we're talking about openly LGBT people, 12% is def on the high side.

I work in a very LGBT friendly industry. it's prob around 15% eyeballing it.
no way general public is 12%

 

[deusavertat]

Yea we do. It’s just not noticed because it is heterosexual. I could give you a ton of examples or sloppy writing and horribly forced shipping in films. Better example would be older films where Hollywood wanted to be diverse and include black actors, yet they had no idea how to tell black stories. It’s the same concept in which I speak of now.



I think the ability to separate WHY things are viewed as an “agenda” vs what you THINK they are is important. If you read what I wrote (which is why I said read above) you’d have a better understanding of what I was saying. However to willfully chose to ignore engaging conversation because you THINK you know a mindset is damn near the same logic you ironically are using to condemn someone based on a perceived bias.

The irony here is EVERYTHING you said in your response, I said the same. You were just so triggered by what your THOUGHT I meant that you formed your own opinion and ran with it. Kinda like real bigots do to the LGBTQ+ community.

I have multiple friends from that community including two very close lifelong best friends so forgive me if I want to see them portrayed in a favorable fashion and not just a tacky add on (ie similar to how Blacks were used as stereotypes earlier in Hollywood history).

I was Born in Alabama btw. Raised in GA. Maybe listen more, talk less.

Ok point 1 made minority groups get judged and noticed harsher for doing the same sh**.

Even as the needle keeps getting pushed to include more gay and black writers for these programs to prevent stereotypes and minstrelsy Jim Bob will still complain. Ive watched gay movies and shows written by gay people that were full of stereotypes. I think the whole gamut of representation from horrendous to beautifully crafted like this episode should be allowed to exist as an art form.

Sorry about being from Alabama and being raised in GA but stop acting like there isnt truth to what I said.

Ive seen that word agenda used for minorities doing the most banal of activities. We all know why those people call it an agenda. They just dont want people who arent like them normalized in society.

 

[deusavertat]

1. the gen-z numbers are obviously pure nonsense.

2. ultimately whats in peoples hearts doesn't really matter
we're talking about openly LGBT people, 12% is def on the high side.

I work in a very LGBT friendly industry. it's prob around 15% eyeballing it.
no way general public is 12%

What makes it obviously nonsense? The numbers you are throwing are all over the place kinda proving my point and discrediting whatever assertion you made about overrepresentation in media. The "other" is always going to be perceived as overrepresented regardless of what the numbers say.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

What makes it obviously nonsense? The numbers you are throwing are all over the place kinda proving my point and discrediting whatever assertion you made about overrepresentation in media. The "other" is always going to be perceived as overrepresented regardless of what the numbers say.

because LGBTIA+ now encompases a bunch of boutique identities that don't really have anything to do with what most people mean when they think of "representation"

So a Gen-Z girl who has never has sex with women, never has been in a relationship with a woman, exclusively dates straight men, can identify as "queer"

but if network put a character like this in a show, no gay women is going to look at that as "representation" and no network would think that would work as valid "representation"


also, I don't think people are mad.

the audience clearly likes and enjoys this content.

there's a small percentage of weirdos and internet grifters who make money off of being "anti-
woke"
but for the most part the market is delivering what people want.

 

[deusavertat]

because LGBTIA+ now encompases a bunch of boutique identities that don't really have anything to do with what most people mean when they think of "representation"

So a Gen-Z girl who has never has sex with women, never has been in a relationship with a woman, exclusively dates straight men, can identify as "queer"

but if network put a character like this in a show, no gay women is going to look at that as "representation" and no network would think that would work as valid "representation"


also, I don't think people are mad.

the audience clearly likes and enjoys this content.

there's a small percentage of weirdos and internet grifters who make money off of being "anti-
woke"
but for the most part the market is delivering what people want.

So this gen-z girl represents the 20% of queer identifying people?

 

[deusavertat]

Funny thing is this queer content people are complaining about is usually like 1 or 2 characters on a heterosexual dominated show. How much gay sh** needs to be on it to label it LGBTQ?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

So this gen-z girl represents the 20% of queer identifying people?

unironically yes. LGBTQ has expanded immensly,

up wards of 60% of gen z LGBT people, ID as BI or other.

tons of people who in previous years we would have simply called straight, now identify in some variety of Q+

which is cool for them, but when we talk about representation, we usually are talking about gay or lesbian or trans characters.
a show with a character who felt feelings for a girl in high school but now exclusively dates men

no one is going to be like "wow great representation"

 

[osh kosh bosh]

all im saying it feels like people are looking for backlash, when really you should just take the W.

Great episode of TV, most people like it.
the people who are mad are pretty small percentage of weirdos and grifters.


and the market will continue to deliver diverse shows because that's what audiences demand.

I work in Film and TV, trust me.
no one is listening or cares about rando conservatives get mad about on twitter.

but people are HIGHLY attuned to having diverse casts, because they know if they don't
the market will **** on them.

 

[kvsm23vs24]

The hell i walk in to
Good episode. Bill was the ultimate survivor. My man’s was ready. Out here eating steaks and drinking wine only being attacked approx once the whole time there is a W. I wanted to see Bill go ham on all those cats. Frank Lowkey distracted him and got him hurt.