Is capitalism sustainable in the long run...

[teamjordan79]

The question should be asked whether we even have true "free market" capitalism which implies true competition.

Look into almost any industry, and you have 2 to 4 transnationals dominating the entire market, everything from media to mining to oil etc. They get subsidized, bailed out , tax havened, they launder money, embezzle govt aid, they bribe contribute to political campaigns, and the list goes on.

As far as the whole issue of growth - its completely irrational to base the worlds entire economy on constant GDP growth and consumption with limited resources. Its the equivalent to a cancer or rapid cell growth in the human body, which will eventually die as a result. Technological breakthrough is the only thing that can stave off a collapse for a little while.

But you have to come to the realization that the decision-makers of this world hold all the power, and thus have no incentive to change a system, from which they derive all of their power and influence.

 

[shoedinidc]

Sustainable? Is over 200 years not enough? How long you want? I mean it did survive the market crashing worldwide and a depression.
There's nothing inherently unsustainable about capitalism as far as it's long lasting prominence. What it comes down to in this kind of capitalism is ppl believing in money based on nothing and the ppl controlling the flow of money not getting reckless with it. You add in insurmountable debt and a growing deficit and this is what you'll get. We know how we got here it's just ppl aren't prepared to do what's necessary to get out of it.

what's needs to be done to get out of it? Your imput would be preciated..

 

[Master Zik]

Sustainable? Is over 200 years not enough? How long you want? I mean it did survive the market crashing worldwide and a depression.
There's nothing inherently unsustainable about capitalism as far as it's long lasting prominence. What it comes down to in this kind of capitalism is ppl believing in money based on nothing and the ppl controlling the flow of money not getting reckless with it. You add in insurmountable debt and a growing deficit and this is what you'll get. We know how we got here it's just ppl aren't prepared to do what's necessary to get out of it.

what's needs to be done to get out of it? Your imput would be preciated..

My ideas are too radical.

I'd tell all foreign countries we owe money to, especially Japan and China that we're not paying our debt. I'd tell them starting now we officially owe you nothing and the debt is wiped out. I'd then raise taxes on the 1% by 95% (channel my boy FDR ), I'd redistribute the cash flow the government is already wasting or mismanaging billions on, I'd take control of the banks, and temporarily regulate private business on a drastic level, have America start manufacturing things again. Set up a sound 10 year economic plan (that's right I'm doing away with 2 terms and you're done but I'd say things would be even better if I wasn't the president and I just got this other title where I was allowed to do these things freely).

I'd basically run the government like a private business that openly cheats, breaks the rules or finds a way around them (for a limited time until we regain stability and are on the way to profiting), and be a dictator to the wealthy and all corporations until the entire country is not just back on it's feet but several times more improved. I'm talking from erasing the lower class to elevating the middle class.

Of course doing all this would take quite the dedicated and intelligent team surrounding me to get things done. No need for tons of bureaucrats and red tape, I'd be a little like Bush and not ask permission or wait to be allowed to do something. I'd openly be breaking all of those time consuming useless rules.

 

[ninjahood]

damn, this thread got all da commies out da woodwork.

 

[laokratwr]

^^ yup...add one more';p)

 

[Betonblck]

The question should be asked whether we even have true "free market" capitalism which implies true competition.

Look into almost any industry, and you have 2 to 4 transnationals dominating the entire market, everything from media to mining to oil etc. They get subsidized, bailed out , tax havened, they launder money, embezzle govt aid, they bribe contribute to political campaigns, and the list goes on.

As far as the whole issue of growth - its completely irrational to base the worlds entire economy on constant GDP growth and consumption with limited resources. Its the equivalent to a cancer or rapid cell growth in the human body, which will eventually die as a result. Technological breakthrough is the only thing that can stave off a collapse for a little while.

But you have to come to the realization that the decision-makers of this world hold all the power, and thus have no incentive to change a system, from which they derive all of their power and influence.

We don't have true free market capitalism because true "free market" capitalism is too unstable. Businesses merge and buy out their competitors until there is only one or a handful of businesses in each industry. Without the safety nets in place such as the bailouts, welfare, and unemployment insurance you get a complete free fall and chaos when crap hits the fan. Although government is seen as wasteful, it provides a lot of stability during the ups and downs of the economic cycle.

 

[crcballer55]

Double Post

 

[crcballer55]

My ideas are too radical.

I'd tell all foreign countries we owe money to, especially Japan and China that we're not paying our debt. I'd tell them starting now we officially owe you nothing and the debt is wiped out. I'd then raise taxes on the 1% by 95% (channel my boy FDR

), I'd redistribute the cash flow the government is already wasting or mismanaging billions on, I'd take control of the banks, and temporarily regulate private business on a drastic level, have America start manufacturing things again. Set up a sound 10 year economic plan (that's right I'm doing away with 2 terms and you're done but I'd say things would be even better if I wasn't the president and I just got this other title where I was allowed to do these things freely).

I'd basically run the government like a private business that openly cheats, breaks the rules or finds a way around them (for a limited time until we regain stability and are on the way to profiting), and be a dictator to the wealthy and all corporations until the entire country is not just back on it's feet but several times more improved. I'm talking from erasing the lower class to elevating the middle class.

Of course doing all this would take quite the dedicated and intelligent team surrounding me to get things done. No need for tons of bureaucrats and red tape, I'd be a little like Bush and not ask permission or wait to be allowed to do something. I'd openly be breaking all of those time consuming useless rules.

Why does this remind me of Hitler's economic plan from the 1930's?

 

[jking0821]

My ideas are too radical.


I'd tell all foreign countries we owe money to, especially Japan and China that we're not paying our debt. I'd tell them starting now we officially owe you nothing and the debt is wiped out. I'd then raise taxes on the 1% by 95% (channel my boy FDR ), I'd redistribute the cash flow the government is already wasting or mismanaging billions on, I'd take control of the banks, and temporarily regulate private business on a drastic level, have America start manufacturing things again. Set up a sound 10 year economic plan (that's right I'm doing away with 2 terms and you're done but I'd say things would be even better if I wasn't the president and I just got this other title where I was allowed to do these things freely).


I'd basically run the government like a private business that openly cheats, breaks the rules or finds a way around them (for a limited time until we regain stability and are on the way to profiting), and be a dictator to the wealthy and all corporations until the entire country is not just back on it's feet but several times more improved. I'm talking from erasing the lower class to elevating the middle class.


Of course doing all this would take quite the dedicated and intelligent team surrounding me to get things done. No need for tons of bureaucrats and red tape, I'd be a little like Bush and not ask permission or wait to be allowed to do something. I'd openly be breaking all of those time consuming useless rules.

Why does this remind me of Hitler's economic plan from the 1930's?

I don't know how this would go over

To answer OPs question.....i think it is sustainable yeah....but i don't think it will stay in its current form forever. I think eventually we make the shift towards caring for others more then our pockets. We have to evolve at some point right?

 

[secretzofwar]

Why does this remind me of Hitler's economic plan from the 1930's?

Might be since it identical.

 

[dt43]

My ideas are too radical.


I'd tell all foreign countries we owe money to, especially Japan and China that we're not paying our debt. I'd tell them starting now we officially owe you nothing and the debt is wiped out. I'd then raise taxes on the 1% by 95% (channel my boy FDR ), I'd redistribute the cash flow the government is already wasting or mismanaging billions on, I'd take control of the banks, and temporarily regulate private business on a drastic level, have America start manufacturing things again. Set up a sound 10 year economic plan (that's right I'm doing away with 2 terms and you're done but I'd say things would be even better if I wasn't the president and I just got this other title where I was allowed to do these things freely).


I'd basically run the government like a private business that openly cheats, breaks the rules or finds a way around them (for a limited time until we regain stability and are on the way to profiting), and be a dictator to the wealthy and all corporations until the entire country is not just back on it's feet but several times more improved. I'm talking from erasing the lower class to elevating the middle class.


Of course doing all this would take quite the dedicated and intelligent team surrounding me to get things done. No need for tons of bureaucrats and red tape, I'd be a little like Bush and not ask permission or wait to be allowed to do something. I'd openly be breaking all of those time consuming useless rules.

Why does this remind me of Hitler's economic plan from the 1930's?

Lol I was gonna say, dude basically described Nazi Germany to a T. I wonder what his foreign policy plans would be..

 

[devildog1776]

capitalism isnt intended to last forever... no system can last forever

CAPITALISM IS MONOPOLY, ONCE all the resources have been acquired re-acquired, distributed, and reacquired again then CAPITALISM WILL RESTART AND A NEW SYSTEM OF COMPLETE SERFDOM WILL RISE....

 

[Jordan8]

capitalism isnt intended to last forever... no system can last forever
CAPITALISM IS MONOPOLY, ONCE all the resources have been acquired re-acquired, distributed, and reacquired again then CAPITALISM WILL RESTART AND A NEW SYSTEM OF COMPLETE SERFDOM WILL RISE....

What resources? Steel and coal? That sounds like a 19th century talking point. Capitalism has moved into ecommerce. Companies are globalizing and using resources from around the world. The information sector alone is a billion dollar industry that sells intagible goods. You cant run out of knowledge.

The thing about capitlism is its evolved over the last 2 centuries. As long as theirs a market or problem to be solved there will be some form of capitlaism.

Gary Dahl can take rocks and call them "pets" and sell it for millions thats capitalism. A dude from the streets one day develops a musical talent that consumers see valuable he can become a millionaire thats capitalism. The homie 40 oz can create a few snapbacks and cash out for $70,000 in a day thats capitalism.

Capitalism doesnt rely on a single set of resources it relies on people's ideas. The problem is there is far more consumers than producers or people who want to produce. Which creates an unbalance of wealth & a false sense of lack of opportunity

Regulations put into place make monopolies illegal this isnt the 1910s Of course players in certain industries make it damn near impossible to compete but its not like it once was.

Im not saying Capitalism is perfect but its the fairest. Anytime theirs a system of competition people will cheat. But as long as the government continues to regulate production, advertisement and trade. Capitalism will flourish.

 

[|A-Man|]

capitalism isnt intended to last forever... no system can last forever
CAPITALISM IS MONOPOLY, ONCE all the resources have been acquired re-acquired, distributed, and reacquired again then CAPITALISM WILL RESTART AND A NEW SYSTEM OF COMPLETE SERFDOM WILL RISE....

Serfdom? Not in this country unless we're enslaving all immigrants. The current knowledge of history won't allow for ppl today to accept serfdom willingly. Sounds more like you're talking about changing not just the economy but how the government operates and it's relationship with the citizens.

I'd much prefer an anarchic government to what you're suggesting.

Why does this remind me of Hitler's economic plan from the 1930's?

It was working though until he kept taking over more neighbors and then the whole attacks on trade ships and embargoes. Hitler was trying to bring Germany out of not just the depression but all of the penalties and punishment they suffered through after losing WW1 cuz they had it much worse given they were among the world powers at the time as they slipped to being 3rd world status. All the other European powers were willing to enact appeasement.

Not praising the dude or anything but if he wasn't on that scapegoat Jews and holocaust tip he probably would've had his own empire once France succumbed to him. He just aint know when to stop. Russia and England didn't care about him taking back Poland and the other countries in Eastern Europe. Think if he knew when to say enough is enough.

 

[Master Zik]

My ideas are too radical.


I'd tell all foreign countries we owe money to, especially Japan and China that we're not paying our debt. I'd tell them starting now we officially owe you nothing and the debt is wiped out. I'd then raise taxes on the 1% by 95% (channel my boy FDR ), I'd redistribute the cash flow the government is already wasting or mismanaging billions on, I'd take control of the banks, and temporarily regulate private business on a drastic level, have America start manufacturing things again. Set up a sound 10 year economic plan (that's right I'm doing away with 2 terms and you're done but I'd say things would be even better if I wasn't the president and I just got this other title where I was allowed to do these things freely).


I'd basically run the government like a private business that openly cheats, breaks the rules or finds a way around them (for a limited time until we regain stability and are on the way to profiting), and be a dictator to the wealthy and all corporations until the entire country is not just back on it's feet but several times more improved. I'm talking from erasing the lower class to elevating the middle class.


Of course doing all this would take quite the dedicated and intelligent team surrounding me to get things done. No need for tons of bureaucrats and red tape, I'd be a little like Bush and not ask permission or wait to be allowed to do something. I'd openly be breaking all of those time consuming useless rules.

Why does this remind me of Hitler's economic plan from the 1930's?

Lol I was gonna say, dude basically described Nazi Germany to a T. I wonder what his foreign policy plans would be..

It'd stay the same for the most part except I'd sever all ties with Israel and the whole cluster**** in the middle east. Let them dudes fend for themselves, I'd start limiting the amounts of troops I've stationed in certain hostile nations. Things like trade and aid would still function as usual.

I'm tempted to go to an isolationism policy like Japan did a while back simply cuz I'm a believer we should be making sure things are right at home before we go off spending ridiculous amounts abroad especially when we're in a bad way and we're declining aid from other countries. Fix things here like the murder rate in certain states, gun violence, end the bs war on drugs, properly address immigration, health care, etc.

 

[crcballer55]

My ideas are too radical.


I'd tell all foreign countries we owe money to, especially Japan and China that we're not paying our debt. I'd tell them starting now we officially owe you nothing and the debt is wiped out. I'd then raise taxes on the 1% by 95% (channel my boy FDR

), I'd redistribute the cash flow the government is already wasting or mismanaging billions on, I'd take control of the banks, and temporarily regulate private business on a drastic level, have America start manufacturing things again. Set up a sound 10 year economic plan (that's right I'm doing away with 2 terms and you're done but I'd say things would be even better if I wasn't the president and I just got this other title where I was allowed to do these things freely).


I'd basically run the government like a private business that openly cheats, breaks the rules or finds a way around them (for a limited time until we regain stability and are on the way to profiting), and be a dictator to the wealthy and all corporations until the entire country is not just back on it's feet but several times more improved. I'm talking from erasing the lower class to elevating the middle class.


Of course doing all this would take quite the dedicated and intelligent team surrounding me to get things done. No need for tons of bureaucrats and red tape, I'd be a little like Bush and not ask permission or wait to be allowed to do something. I'd openly be breaking all of those time consuming useless rules.

Why does this remind me of Hitler's economic plan from the 1930's?

Lol I was gonna say, dude basically described Nazi Germany to a T. I wonder what his foreign policy plans would be..

It'd stay the same for the most part except I'd sever all ties with Israel and the whole cluster**** in the middle east. Let them dudes fend for themselves, I'd start limiting the amounts of troops I've stationed in certain hostile nations. Things like trade and aid would still function as usual.

I'm tempted to go to an isolationism policy like Japan did a while back simply cuz I'm a believer we should be making sure things are right at home before we go off spending ridiculous amounts abroad especially when we're in a bad way and we're declining aid from other countries. Fix things here like the murder rate in certain states, gun violence, end the bs war on drugs, properly address immigration, health care, etc.

Check out what happened with our country during the Great Depression after FDR enacted the trade embargo. Japan hasn't exactly been doing so hot for the last 20 years either. Their debt to GDP is 200% and their markets have been stagnant for 2 decades despite having some of the best companies in the world headquartered there.

 

[Master Zik]

My ideas are too radical.



I'd tell all foreign countries we owe money to, especially Japan and China that we're not paying our debt. I'd tell them starting now we officially owe you nothing and the debt is wiped out. I'd then raise taxes on the 1% by 95% (channel my boy FDR ), I'd redistribute the cash flow the government is already wasting or mismanaging billions on, I'd take control of the banks, and temporarily regulate private business on a drastic level, have America start manufacturing things again. Set up a sound 10 year economic plan (that's right I'm doing away with 2 terms and you're done but I'd say things would be even better if I wasn't the president and I just got this other title where I was allowed to do these things freely).



I'd basically run the government like a private business that openly cheats, breaks the rules or finds a way around them (for a limited time until we regain stability and are on the way to profiting), and be a dictator to the wealthy and all corporations until the entire country is not just back on it's feet but several times more improved. I'm talking from erasing the lower class to elevating the middle class.



Of course doing all this would take quite the dedicated and intelligent team surrounding me to get things done. No need for tons of bureaucrats and red tape, I'd be a little like Bush and not ask permission or wait to be allowed to do something. I'd openly be breaking all of those time consuming useless rules.

Why does this remind me of Hitler's economic plan from the 1930's?

Lol I was gonna say, dude basically described Nazi Germany to a T. I wonder what his foreign policy plans would be..

It'd stay the same for the most part except I'd sever all ties with Israel and the whole cluster**** in the middle east. Let them dudes fend for themselves, I'd start limiting the amounts of troops I've stationed in certain hostile nations. Things like trade and aid would still function as usual.

I'm tempted to go to an isolationism policy like Japan did a while back simply cuz I'm a believer we should be making sure things are right at home before we go off spending ridiculous amounts abroad especially when we're in a bad way and we're declining aid from other countries. Fix things here like the murder rate in certain states, gun violence, end the bs war on drugs, properly address immigration, health care, etc.

Check out what happened with our country during the Great Depression after FDR enacted the trade embargo. Japan hasn't exactly been doing so hot for the last 20 years either. Their debt to GDP is 200% and their markets have been stagnant for 2 decades despite having some of the best companies in the world headquartered there.

Oh I know it doesn't really work economically. Don't want to make it seem like I contradicted myself since I said I let trade go like it's already been going. Japan definitely hurt themselves doing it, same way China did during the Industrial revolution. I should've said it'd be isolationism more on a military front like not sending troops to Libya. Not going out of our way to interact with certain countries when we have more pressing matters. Mutually beneficial interaction is a whole different thing which would usually be welcomed given it doesn't put us in direct conflict with another country.

I'm still pondering how I'd approach/tackle oil and the middle east. I really want to switch off fossil fuels and seriously get a better/alternative source of power but invading and taking over, and forcefully making them apart of the American empire sounds good too.