Jigga on using BIG's rhymes

[jthagreat]

Originally Posted by seasoned vet

Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE

Originally Posted by dreClark

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler [+]

If you ain't kissed his momma how the +*@% you ride for him?
You **** eating +@%%!* prolly wished you died for him
And I admired his work, but I ain't never cried for him!

http://blogs.phoenixnewti...un/pusha-t cocaine.jpg src="http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/uponsun/pusha-t cocaine.jpg">

"They say this took confidence, I just call it patience/ 'cause I had to much pride to take this %@++##%+**@*$ cadence"

That.

My issue with it is this, the kids in this generation  doesn't know they're Big's lines and its not like he's or anyone else are coming out and citing sources. Case in point a vast majority of Wayne fans didn't even know that the bars he spit at the end of the verse were in fact Jays from Vol 1.  We had posters on here quoting them talking about how Wayne got off

....but thats their ignorance though.
 

 @ this being an issue.
 
from BIG to Jay, PUN to Joe, or Pimp C to Bun B....i have NO probelms with it.
 
 
 

Originally Posted by ILL LEGAL OPERATION

Man, that **!% was sad

 

 ...
...but if you think about it - this whole "citing/quoting" became an issue when Nas called him out on it on "Ether".

Combine that with "Em murdered you on your own **!%" makin' everybody now afraid to let their guest feature eat 'em, and you've got N. Jones changing two facets of hip hop with one song... 

 
- ugh, dont even get me started on that....
 
....what happened was dudes is followers more than anything, and once Nas said it cats started looking for it like a bunch of *!@%$%% sheep

. before that line it was never an issue (with the consumer) about who bodied who. NEVER.
 
- i think back on "The What" with Meth and BIG, "Its like that" w/ Redman and KSolo, or "how high" with Meth and Red, we were just happy to have such fire on one track. who outshined who was never an issue with the consumer.  its about as dumb as when the average listeners adopted the infamous "switch ya drums up B!!"

. cats just heard that %%!# and started repeating it.
 
 
 
 

     

 

[thekingofva]

Originally Posted by JR Paperstacks

He made this practice acceptable. I remember when it was frowned upon to say anything even kinda close to something somebody else said.

Yup I remember back in the day people trashed Shyne for using others lyrics on his debut. I personally don't like it unless done in moderation

 

[alex2182]

Originally Posted by Wade187

He did make biting ok,   

This is true, hardly anybody and hardly anybody still does but Jay should have said he does that with other rappers too cuz he jacked a couple for no reason. As great of a rapper he is I think this will make me not think so highly of him. 

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight

You ever ACTUALLY talk to some people who don't listen to or like hip-hop? Ask them what they think about "sampling". To them, sampling is a "crime". "Stealing". Used by ignorant and talentless black folk (yup, some people DO use those words or similar ones that aren't appropriate for posting) who don't know anything about music or how to play instruments. Given your posts about Jay and his lyrics, I'm sure you would agree with them along those same lines, right?

I'm talking specifically about hip hop though. Why would I even care about a non-fan or someone who does not listen to hip hop at all talk about their views of stealing within the genre?

People in here act as if hip-hop is the first and only genre where other artists borrow - whoops, I mean "bite", sorry - other artists ideas/lyrics. NOPE. This been a concept as old as the Beatles in their heyday, and that's just looking at the modern era of pop music.
Not the case at all. Shame you've misinterpreted it that way. All the genres are different. Original lyrics in hip hop is one of those unique differences of it. I'm sure there's ppl that hate pop singers for never writing their own songs and feel they are hacks and only listen to real artists that write their own songs. Shh is irrelevant to this topic the same way you bring up ppl outside the genre wanting to argue sampling is stealing despite the actual skill it takes to change a record in to a dope hip hop instrumental. If your entire argument comes down to that comparison there is a huge glaring difference in both processes.

You can whine about Jay/BIG, but you look silly when you do that and then give ripping entire musical compositions/vocal performances by talented musicians (and looping them into beats in a machine that programs pre-recorded drum sounds) a free pass. Whoops - I mean "sampling"

Like I mentioned in the last post it aint just BIG.

 

[lukethejediknight]

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight

You ever ACTUALLY talk to some people who don't listen to or like hip-hop? Ask them what they think about "sampling". To them, sampling is a "crime". "Stealing". Used by ignorant and talentless black folk (yup, some people DO use those words or similar ones that aren't appropriate for posting) who don't know anything about music or how to play instruments. Given your posts about Jay and his lyrics, I'm sure you would agree with them along those same lines, right?

I'm talking specifically about hip hop though. Why would I even care about a non-fan or someone who does not listen to hip hop at all talk about their views of stealing within the genre?

People in here act as if hip-hop is the first and only genre where other artists borrow - whoops, I mean "bite", sorry - other artists ideas/lyrics. NOPE. This been a concept as old as the Beatles in their heyday, and that's just looking at the modern era of pop music.

Not the case at all. Shame you've misinterpreted it that way. All the genres are different. Original lyrics in hip hop is one of those unique differences of it. I'm sure there's ppl that hate pop singers for never writing their own songs and feel they are hacks and only listen to real artists that write their own songs. Shh is irrelevant to this topic the same way you bring up ppl outside the genre wanting to argue sampling is stealing despite the actual skill it takes to change a record in to a dope hip hop instrumental. If your entire argument comes down to that comparison there is a huge glaring difference in both processes.

You can whine about Jay/BIG, but you look silly when you do that and then give ripping entire musical compositions/vocal performances by talented musicians (and looping them into beats in a machine that programs pre-recorded drum sounds) a free pass. Whoops - I mean "sampling"

Like I mentioned in the last post it aint just BIG.




No my dude. The genres of music may differ, but the concept of borrowing (or "biting"), as you call it) is not. Ask about it. And some of these artists don't give a damn about a lawsuit either

And of course there are original ideas/creative techniques in sampling. For those people who like to nitpick though, they disregard all of that and focus their gripes on the ONE part of the music that was originally composed by another artist. Those people ain't buying your "sampling takes skill" excuse. A shame too, because IMO they miss out on some great music that utilizes alot of original ideas and concepts.If you can't make the obvious analogous connection here, then you're just frowning upon one form of borrowing/"biting" while defending another. And for those "non hip-hop" folks you don't care about, they are definetely laughing at dudes here who whine about "biting" while they're busy bumping their favorite songs that uses an unchanged portion from a classic recor they couldn't tell you a damn thing about, even if its sitting somewhere in their mom's attic gathering dust.

 

[seasoned vet]

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight

You ever ACTUALLY talk to some people who don't listen to or like hip-hop? Ask them what they think about "sampling". To them, sampling is a "crime". "Stealing". Used by ignorant and talentless black folk (yup, some people DO use those words or similar ones that aren't appropriate for posting) who don't know anything about music or how to play instruments. Given your posts about Jay and his lyrics, I'm sure you would agree with them along those same lines, right?

I'm talking specifically about hip hop though. Why would I even care about a non-fan or someone who does not listen to hip hop at all talk about their views of stealing within the genre?

...........and there you have it

.
 
ignorance really is bliss.
 

 

[daboyprince23]

Jay-Z isn't biting, its just a brooklyn thing ,  fab also has tracks where he uses Big's lines

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight

No my dude. The genres of music may differ, but the concept of borrowing (or "biting"), as you call it) is not. Ask about it. And some of these artists don't give a damn about a lawsuit either

So like I said you're condoning biting. You're justifying rappers "borrowing" each other's rhymes because producers sample records from other genres.

I don't know why you keep thinking this sampling comparison is something new you're bringing up anyway. Most of us in here are aware of sampling clearances, getting denied it, songs not making an album because of it, artists or labels releasing shh anyway not caring about a lawsuit.

The comparison does not have any validity unless you're saying rappers should start paying other rappers when they bite/borrow/steal their lyrics. Cuz rappers (labels) do have to send a check to other rappers when they sample each other's voice looping some bars to make a hook.

And of course there are original ideas/creative techniques in sampling. For those people who like to nitpick though, they disregard all of that and focus their gripes on the ONE part of the music that was originally composed by another artist. Those people ain't buying your "sampling takes skill" excuse. A shame too, because IMO they miss out on some great music that utilizes alot of original ideas and concepts.
Again I don't care about these ppl. I see the connection but I don't see a legit comparison. I'm fully aware of those ppl but whether or not ppl listen to hip hop because the issue of sampling or if they hate it because of sampling is comparing apples to oranges. You can say I'm focusing on one specific thing but then again that is what this thread is about.

And for those "non hip-hop" folks you don't care about, they are definetely laughing at dudes here who whine about "biting" while they're busy bumping their favorite songs that uses an unchanged portion from a classic recor they couldn't tell you a damn thing about, even if its sitting somewhere in their mom's attic gathering dust.
And again my response would be I don't care. There's probably ppl laughing at me cuz I listen to a genre of music where the artists engage in heavy usage of curse words and the n words. Those who laugh and are disgusted with the misogyny portrayed in the music I like, the degradation of minorities, the terrible messages, and on and on and on and on. Thing is hip hop isn't just one of those things. This whole sampling argument is different.

I'm specifically talking about my gripe with rappers spitting other rapper's lyrics which I feel shouldn't be done. You over here with a two wrongs make a right argument.

Originally Posted by seasoned vet

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight

You ever ACTUALLY talk to some people who don't listen to or like hip-hop? Ask them what they think about "sampling". To them, sampling is a "crime". "Stealing". Used by ignorant and talentless black folk (yup, some people DO use those words or similar ones that aren't appropriate for posting) who don't know anything about music or how to play instruments. Given your posts about Jay and his lyrics, I'm sure you would agree with them along those same lines, right?

I'm talking specifically about hip hop though. Why would I even care about a non-fan or someone who does not listen to hip hop at all talk about their views of stealing within the genre?

...........and there you have it

.
 
ignorance really is bliss.

Talk about misusing a phrase

I'm aware and am able to tell the difference between the two so it's a irrelevant and I do not care.



Shark *$%$% advocates

 

[lukethejediknight]

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight

No my dude. The genres of music may differ, but the concept of borrowing (or "biting"), as you call it) is not. Ask about it. And some of these artists don't give a damn about a lawsuit either

So like I said you're condoning biting. You're justifying rappers "borrowing" each other's rhymes because producers sample records from other genres.

I don't know why you keep thinking this sampling comparison is something new you're bringing up anyway. Most of us in here are aware of sampling clearances, getting denied it, songs not making an album because of it, artists or labels releasing shh anyway not caring about a lawsuit.

The comparison does not have any validity unless you're saying rappers should start paying other rappers when they bite/borrow/steal their lyrics. Cuz rappers (labels) do have to send a check to other rappers when they sample each other's voice looping some bars to make a hook.

And of course there are original ideas/creative techniques in sampling. For those people who like to nitpick though, they disregard all of that and focus their gripes on the ONE part of the music that was originally composed by another artist. Those people ain't buying your "sampling takes skill" excuse. A shame too, because IMO they miss out on some great music that utilizes alot of original ideas and concepts.

Again I don't care about these ppl. I see the connection but I don't see a legit comparison. I'm fully aware of those ppl but whether or not ppl listen to hip hop because the issue of sampling or if they hate it because of sampling is comparing apples to oranges. You can say I'm focusing on one specific thing but then again that is what this thread is about.

And for those "non hip-hop" folks you don't care about, they are definetely laughing at dudes here who whine about "biting" while they're busy bumping their favorite songs that uses an unchanged portion from a classic recor they couldn't tell you a damn thing about, even if its sitting somewhere in their mom's attic gathering dust.
And again my response would be I don't care. There's probably ppl laughing at me cuz I listen to a genre of music where the artists engage in heavy usage of curse words and the n words. Those who laugh and are disgusted with the misogyny portrayed in the music I like, the degradation of minorities, the terrible messages, and on and on and on and on. Thing is hip hop isn't just one of those things. This whole sampling argument is different.

I'm specifically talking about my gripe with rappers spitting other rapper's lyrics which I feel shouldn't be done. You over here with a two wrongs make a right argument.

Originally Posted by seasoned vet

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

I'm talking specifically about hip hop though. Why would I even care about a non-fan or someone who does not listen to hip hop at all talk about their views of stealing within the genre?

...........and there you have it

.
 
ignorance really is bliss.

Talk about misusing a phrase

I'm aware and am able to tell the difference between the two so it's a irrelevant and I do not care.



Shark *$%$% advocates

I brought up the sampling example (and the non hip-hop music artist/listener view of it) because I wanted to point out how the semantics of borrowing/"biting" differs depending on who you talk to. You call using someone else's lyrics "biting" but consider sampling other people's music an art. Guess what? Alot of people don't see it your way, whether the original artist gets paid for the use of his music or not. Musicians from other genres take GREAT pride in their ability to make original scores and compositions (and also sing) more than rappers take pride in crafting lyrics, and some don't even consider hip-hop as a valid form of music for this reason (I'm talking about the musical side of it here, not the content of the lyrics). Some hip-hop producers even see this and decide NOT to use sampling - partly because they enjoy/relish the challenge of making their own arrangements from scratch. The point? ANYONE can easily make the argument that this whole genre of hip-hop came as a result of blatant "biting" from other genres. Because of the semantics of the argument though, you don't call sampling "biting". You see what you're doing now? You want to say that people are making excuses for rappers using a previously used line, and yet defend the practice of producers simply lifting material from funk/soul/rock records instead of...you know...making their OWN compositions (as some outsiders say should do instead). The logic isn't consistent with your gripe.

Here's the other thing too. While some producers are honest with giving credit to orginal composers of the music they sample, some aren't - and they get clever with looking for obscure records from obscure artists and turn it into a hit song without getting the artists' permission. I hear some hip-hop heads (not necessarily you in this case) defend that kind of thing too, but then they get offense when rappers use one line from another rapper in an entire song that is otherwise original. I'm jus sayin - it's a bit hypocritical.

 

[|A-Man|]

If your whole point was to make that comparison just to come back and say some ppl don't see biting as biting great job but you did not in any way explain why it's not biting or why there's nothing wrong with it. You're just saying some ppl don't see it for what it is. I mean like I said the excuse was first paying homage right? I don't even accept that excuse but that was original one. Now %$$@%@ is historians n !%%% yet if they studied the game they'd know spitting other rapper's rhymes aint kosher. That !%%% aint alright or at least it wasn't but now dudes is making excuses to explain that shh away and the way you seem to argue it is that's fine and because something similar is done in another part of the music we should okay this part too.

I don't get this it's just a lil part of the song or their catalog argument. Why do it at all? If we talking about ignorant listeners isn't it even more misleading if you drop 3 whole verses and sprinkle in dope lines from other rappers?

If you or anyone else who doesn't like or listen to hip hop want to say I don't see sampling for what it really is and that it is stealing I'm completely fine with that. Same way I'd be fine with someone making blanket statements about 2Pac being a fake thug or that his music was about hate. At a base level after some discussion it'll be apparent that we'll have to agree to disagree.

As far as this topic you haven't even addressed biting, you've made comparisons and tried to discuss that and justify biting through that. Not the actual topic.

As far as sampling and stealing. The producer pays the original artist/label to get it cleared it's all good. Dudes out their stealing should get sued and it is wrong but I don't know what else you want from that situation. For a fan to say the beat isn't dope cuz the producer didn't pay for the sample? For them not to listen to it? Again that topic just ends up being a tangent with w/e connection it has with biting.

 

[lukethejediknight]

A statement from your previous post about reusing lyrics:

"I don't get this it's just a lil part of the song or their catalog argument. Why do it at all? If we talking about ignorant listeners isn't it even more misleading if you drop 3 whole verses and sprinkle in dope lines from other rappers?"

And a statement a paragraph later about reusing music from earlier records in hip-hop tracks:

"If you or anyone else who doesn't like or listen to hip hop want to say I don't see sampling for what it really is and that it is stealing I'm completely fine with that."

If you can't recognize the clear-as-day similarity between the two then you're being intellectually dishonest. Plenty of musicians literally look at MUSIC the same way you look at hip-hop lyrics. How do you cry "stealing" for one and then turn around and say that it isn't "stealing" for the other?

Like cartune said. Semantics. Also, you better believe that some artists aren't cool with the practice - which is why some of them don't allow hip-hop producers to sample their records. Those artists want the credit for THEIR work - you think some kids who heard "Wild Wild West" automatically know that the melody and chorus was from Stevie Wonder's "I Wish"? What about the outro in Rihanna's "Please Don't Stop the Music", you think young kids recognize that it came from Mike Jackson's "Thriller"? Jay/Ye's "Heart of the City" from Bobby Bland? Some artists dont mind it, others do and tell producers to stay away from their songs. Either that or ask to be paid a handsome sum of money for it.

You gotta at least respect the other side of the coin here.

 

[seasoned vet]

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

And of course there are original ideas/creative techniques in sampling. For those people who like to nitpick though, they disregard all of that and focus their gripes on the ONE part of the music that was originally composed by another artist. Those people ain't buying your "sampling takes skill" excuse. A shame too, because IMO they miss out on some great music that utilizes alot of original ideas and concepts.

Again I don't care about these ppl. I see the connection but I don't see a legit comparison. I'm fully aware of those ppl but whether or not ppl listen to hip hop because the issue of sampling or if they hate it because of sampling is comparing apples to oranges. You can say I'm focusing on one specific thing but then again that is what this thread is about.
.

 
 


  

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight

A statement from your previous post about reusing lyrics:

"I don't get this it's just a lil part of the song or their catalog argument. Why do it at all? If we talking about ignorant listeners isn't it even more misleading if you drop 3 whole verses and sprinkle in dope lines from other rappers?"

And a statement a paragraph later about reusing music from earlier records in hip-hop tracks:

"If you or anyone else who doesn't like or listen to hip hop want to say I don't see sampling for what it really is and that it is stealing I'm completely fine with that."

If you can't recognize the clear-as-day similarity between the two then you're being intellectually dishonest. Plenty of musicians literally look at MUSIC the same way you look at hip-hop lyrics. How do you cry "stealing" for one and then turn around and say that it isn't "stealing" for the other?

You gotta selectively be reading my posts to point this out. Like a page ago I brought up the difference in the process. You and I both agree it takes some skill to flip a sample. I just don't see how ppl who don't like or listen to hip hop matter especially when you're trying to tie this in to biting which you haven't been able to place differently. I already said yes there's a connection but it doesn't justify biting. I specifically even say at the end of my last post about ppl who pay to use the records and those who steal. I'm still trying to figure out why you're trying to make it an okay thing to do.

How is it stealing if they pay for it? THAT IS WHY IT IS NOT THE SAME AS BITING.

Like cartune said. Semantics. Also, you better believe that some artists aren't cool with the practice - which is why some of them don't allow hip-hop producers to sample their records. Those artists want the credit for THEIR work - you think some kids who heard "Wild Wild West" automatically know that the melody and chorus was from Stevie Wonder's "I Wish"? What about the outro in Rihanna's "Please Don't Stop the Music", you think young kids recognize that it came from Mike Jackson's "Thriller"? Jay/Ye's "Heart of the City" from Bobby Bland? Some artists dont mind it, others do and tell producers to stay away from their songs. Either that or ask to be paid a handsome sum of money for it.

You gotta at least respect the other side of the coin here.
All those kids gotta do is look at the production credits. If they're really in love with the beat if it is on a mixtape for example, they'll search.

You talking like sampling is simply artists who don't mind it and artists who do. They get paid for another producer to use their records. It's not even a question of musical integrity at this point, unlike biting.

If Paul McCartney is willing to sell his music to the Rza for him to sample on a Wu song how is Rza stealing?

And like I said I've already addressed those that actually steal when they sample. That !@#* aint right. Just like biting.

Originally Posted by seasoned vet

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

And of course there are original ideas/creative techniques in sampling. For those people who like to nitpick though, they disregard all of that and focus their gripes on the ONE part of the music that was originally composed by another artist. Those people ain't buying your "sampling takes skill" excuse. A shame too, because IMO they miss out on some great music that utilizes alot of original ideas and concepts.

Again I don't care about these ppl. I see the connection but I don't see a legit comparison. I'm fully aware of those ppl but whether or not ppl listen to hip hop because the issue of sampling or if they hate it because of sampling is comparing apples to oranges. You can say I'm focusing on one specific thing but then again that is what this thread is about.
.

When rapper's start getting paid for other rappers to spit their lyrics then it'll be exactly the same for you to compare the two. Thing is the whole biting thing has been going unchecked.

Maybe we need a Special Ed to start suing %@#%$% to see who is willing to pay to spit another rapper's rhymes.

 

[lukethejediknight]

"All those kids gotta do is look at the production credits. If they're really in love with the beat if it is on a mixtape for example, they'll search."

The same can be said for lyrics too. Especially in today's Internet age.

Anyway, there are copyright/fair use laws for music and lyrics. A visible, well-known pop music artist such as Jay wouldn't be making music/writing lyrics without permission of some kind and not be sued for it, especially if another artist got an ax to grind with the dude. Then again, you dont know whats going on behind closed doors between artists in the song recording process. What you should actually ask yourself is does that particular quoted artist (or his family/kin) see an issue with Jay using a line of his? If not, then that's all that matters.

 

[seasoned vet]

  @ that whole conversation going right over dudes head.
 
Ignorance is bliss.......AND funny to witness
 
 

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight

"All those kids gotta do is look at the production credits. If they're really in love with the beat if it is on a mixtape for example, they'll search."

The same can be said for lyrics too. Especially in today's Internet age.

You talking like every time a rapper bites another they cite them in credits.

Anyway, there are copyright/fair use laws for music and lyrics. A visible, well-known pop music artist such as Jay wouldn't be making music/writing lyrics without permission of some kind and not be sued for it, especially if another artist got an ax to grind with the dude. Then again, you dont know whats going on behind closed doors between artists in the song recording process. What you should actually ask yourself is does that particular quoted artist (or his family/kin) see an issue with Jay using a line of his? If not, then that's all that matters.
According to Jay, it's okay cuz he's a historian not cuz he went to see if it was okay to spit some Em lyrics or Pac's.

Went from it's the same as sampling to we don't know what goes on behind the scenes and it's okay if the rapper's who are getting bitten are cool with it. You really trying to pitch to me that all biters aren't really that and are doing it with permission?

 

[lukethejediknight]

You actually think the average music listener reads production credits? They might know a couple famous producers, but they only care to listen to the music in front of them.

Also, Jay and his other well-known pop music peers aren't fools. They work on and with established record labels wih legal counsel. There are laws in his country that protect your music, especially in today's pirated age. Artists who think that another artist is jacking music they don't approve of may use those laws...and they do.

Maybe if Jay uses YOUR lyrics he should get a lawsuit from you. But you're going overboard with this thing. Debating about "is it borrowing or stealing" is kinda silly when self-aware music artists are already ten steps ahead of you in that department.

 

[jr paperstacks]

Whatever with whatever. It's not a cool thing. He did it too much. And he only explained himself after Ether.

He's still Jay and people use his lines more than he uses anybody's (his own flow is foolish)...but...let's not make it OK just for the sake of his legacy. It's still intact. No worries.

And it was "biting" before Jay made it OK. We're talking about rules within genres. Sampling is OK within the genre. Saying other people's line *was* NOT OK...was. Those were just the rules we started with. Pardon some people for holding on to the belief.

Sampling: If somebody took the "I Really Mean It" sample and used it in similar fashion, they'd be biting Just Blaze. That's just how it works. And I'm going to believe you get that distinction because i'm sure you do.

And people are quoting lines that aren't classic and aren't from classic artist. That's a problem to me. I don't listen to Young Joc enough (at all) to know that Wayne used *this* line from #9 on his album. I think it's a Wayne line. Am I to blame for not listening to Joc? Perhaps. But...naw. And I have no point of reference for the line...so it's Wayne's. And there's a good chance that i'll never know.

And I remember somebody on here arguing with me about the sycamore/more sicker line (Dec. 4th) not being a bite. He didn't say the line exactly, he just stole the essence of it. Which *is* biting...not quoting. Then he said it in Decoded, if i'm not mistaken.

 

[|A-Man|]

If they want to know they'll look. Are you saying the alternative is them thinking the producer made every thing in the beat from scratch using live instruments? The average listener doesn't even know sampling is a part of hip hop? What kind of argument are you even making here? At least the average listener has the chance of finding out that the beats they thought were made from scratched were actually records that were flipped. Aint that the lovely thing about that ignorant bunch and the business of sampling? At least they can find out and no longer be ignorant. What about the dude using the next man's lyrics? We googling bars from a whole rapper's catalog now?

Son if the whole biting issue was being handled legally we'd see whoever rhymes were used name show up in the credits the same way we see who got sampled on a production credit. Are you saying any and everybody this happens to gets paid without recognition?

I am not going overboard and I NEVER argued if it was borrowing or stealing. You were the one trying to justify it not me. Now you seem to be confusing the willing business end and the musical integrity of some artists who choose not to in your comparison. Once again you're making statements that have nothing to do with the topic. If you want to attack me go ahead but it don't change the argument. It's like you can't not do that for some reason.

 

[Betonblck]

Bunch of followers in here. Biting is never cool, whether it is sampling or spitting 3-4 lines.

 

[Jordan8]

MUSIC IS MUSIC IF THE OUTCOME IS OF QUALITY %#@% IT.




"GOOD ARTIST BORROW, GREAT ARTISTS STEAL" 




/THREAD

 

[lukethejediknight]

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

If they want to know they'll look. Are you saying the alternative is them thinking the producer made every thing in the beat from scratch using live instruments? The average listener doesn't even know sampling is a part of hip hop? What kind of argument are you even making here? At least the average listener has the chance of finding out that the beats they thought were made from scratched were actually records that were flipped. Aint that the lovely thing about that ignorant bunch and the business of sampling? At least they can find out and no longer be ignorant. What about the dude using the next man's lyrics? We googling bars from a whole rapper's catalog now?

Son if the whole biting issue was being handled legally we'd see whoever rhymes were used name show up in the credits the same way we see who got sampled on a production credit. Are you saying any and everybody this happens to gets paid without recognition?

I am not going overboard and I NEVER argued if it was borrowing or stealing. You were the one trying to justify it not me. Now you seem to be confusing the willing business end and the musical integrity of some artists who choose not to in your comparison. Once again you're making statements that have nothing to do with the topic. If you want to attack me go ahead but it don't change the argument. It's like you can't not do that for some reason.

You DEFINTELY don't talk to people outside of hip-hop/who casually listen to music then

Not everyone understands sampling. And even for those who do and also know that artists get credit in production, they STILL see it as "biting" as you do with rap lyrics.

If an artist doesn't care you use his lines/music, then nothing happens. Simple as that. You see this in other genres too, musicians might borrow a melody or lyrics for a song from other musicians or peers they're cool with for their own creative work. The only people who DO care are artists/the profiting record label who actually WANT the citation in the production credits to their name/money for use for the work. They either tell the artist borrowing from them to give them credit, or if they don't they take legal action.

If artists feel Jay stole from them and want to take Jay to the cleaners for it, it's their right. But they don't - either because they're cool with Jay or they just don't care. And if they don't, why should you? Are you their lawyer?

Borrowing ("biting" as you call it) happened in all genres of music WAY before hip-hop and still does today. You may not like it, but deal with it. The moralizing over this thing is unnecessary.

"Sampling is OK within the genre."And it's NOT okay with some people outside of it, or even in it. But again, "biting" depends on who you talk to.

 

[|A-Man|]

It's funny how you won't get off the topic of sampling. I get it sampling and biting are so intertwined to you that until you justify the act of sampling despite the payment to make profit off flipped records it makes no sense to point out a rapper spitting another rapper's lyrics. So as long as sampling is okay biting is okay.

As far as I see it biting in this topic is taking another rapper's lyrics. Borrowing entails that you will be giving back what you initially took. Buying is what producers do when they sample a record.

Stop with this bull $#@% about artists that want the citation. What artist says nah it's okay you don't have to credit me on a record I made that you want to sample? Citation is the burden of the person doing the citing. If you hand in a research paper or dissertation with no citation or bibliography you FAIL. You  don't tell the professor "It's not like Sigmund Freud asked me to cite him."

And it's not as I call it

Pointing this out in hip hop is not something new. For you to even say ppl been stealing each other's work in music period and it's not a problem is absurd.

So this "borrowing" as you call it (which isn't logically possible) can fly with you and whoever else refer to it as such cuz I know I haven't ever heard a rapper or producer even try to place biting or sampling in such a light or refer to it as borrowing. Sounds like something a person with sticky fingers would say "I didn't steal your beer, I just borrowed it."