Kobe Stans...

[jonnny25]

Originally Posted by CP1708

This thread is proof of why stats don't tell a whole story. 

If you want to just live off of 27-80 and not take each shot into consideration, then I don't know what to tell ya. 

Clutch doesn't mean he hits every shot.  We all know he doesn't.  It's not possible. 

Jordan missed a lot of game winners.  Horry missed a lot of game winners.  Reggie missed a lot of game winners. 

The thing is, they all have the stones to take those game winners, make or miss, and their teams trust them to continue to take those shots over and over. 

What the numbers say don't even matter.  If Kobe misses a no point of shooting 3 down by 5 with 7 seconds left, it counts against him.  If Amare dunks down by 5 with 7 seconds left, it counts FOR him, but they both lose the game.  Moral of the story is, stats don't tell the whole story.  Unless you are breaking those 80 shots down on a case by case basis, time left, points up or down, tied or whatever, they don't tell the whole and total truth.  So stop just believing every stat you see.   

that stat specifically states that they are shots with less than 24 seconds in one possession situations. Jordan, Horry, and Reggie missed a lot of game winners, but we don't know how many shots they missed compared to how many they made. We DO know that Kobe makes a lot of big shots, but he also misses a lot. The biggest point here is that he makes shots at a similar % compared to other players in these situations, so Kobe in the clutch is a bit overrated. Im not saying he isn't the guy I would want to take the last shot, but his clutchness is overrated especially when he takes every last second Laker shot.

 

[erascism]

Originally Posted by 22 Rather Unique 22

Originally Posted by ERASCISM

Originally Posted by 22 Rather Unique 22

Originally Posted by AIRJORDAN JB23

Originally Posted by 22 Rather Unique 22

My point is that the %%$%# is not half as clutch as the riders make him out to be.

25 game winners isn't clutch?

27-80 over the past 8 seasons in clutch scenarios...that's 33%.

NO, that's NOT clutch.

You've never played basketball.

Silliman Activity and Family Aquatic Center
6800 Mowry Avenue
Newark, CA 94560


See me there tomorrow at 10am so I could prove you wrong.

*asks momma to iron my arm sleeve for tomorrow*

See you there, Lorenzo.



But seriously, you're saying he ain't clutch because he shoots 33% in those situations. You understand he is a career 45% shooter? You seriously expect him, or any player, to shoot the same percentage in the most stressful of game situations? You're telling me 1 out 3 times he'll come through in the clutch is subpar? There's a lot more to the numbers, too. Like of those 80 attempts, he probably got 5 or 10 clean looks. How many of those situations was he double and triple-teamed? Did he get mugged? Was the drawn up play pure crap? There's other variables outside of the numbers. Bottom line: 33% is AWESOME.

 

 

[22 rather unique 22]

Originally Posted by 22 Rather Unique 22

Originally Posted by CP1708

This thread is proof of why stats don't tell a whole story. 

If you want to just live off of 27-80 and not take each shot into consideration, then I don't know what to tell ya. 

Clutch doesn't mean he hits every shot.  We all know he doesn't.  It's not possible. 

Jordan missed a lot of game winners.  Horry missed a lot of game winners.  Reggie missed a lot of game winners. 

The thing is, they all have the stones to take those game winners, make or miss, and their teams trust them to continue to take those shots over and over. 

What the numbers say don't even matter.  If Kobe misses a no point of shooting 3 down by 5 with 7 seconds left, it counts against him.  If Amare dunks down by 5 with 7 seconds left, it counts FOR him, but they both lose the game.  Moral of the story is, stats don't tell the whole story.  Unless you are breaking those 80 shots down on a case by case basis, time left, points up or down, tied or whatever, they don't tell the whole and total truth.  So stop just believing every stat you see.   

What in the $%+@ are you talking about? Did you even read the 2 sentences in my original post?

 

[22 rather unique 22]

Originally Posted by Fro B Giant

I love when people got nothing better to do than hate. It's so Fabolous...

And I love when people think that stating facts is "hating."

 

[do be doo]

Originally Posted by 22 Rather Unique 22

 

let the man live....

 

[noreasonabledoubt]

Originally Posted by 22 Rather Unique 22

Originally Posted by Fro B Giant

I love when people got nothing better to do than hate. It's so Fabolous...

And I love when people think that stating facts is "hating."

HaHa I love when people think saying "told yall he aint as clutch as you guys said so wah waaaaah" is a fact. Seriously why are you so mad man. Did you have nothing better to do? Was this really bothering you?

 

[22 rather unique 22]

But seriously, you're saying he ain't clutch because he shoots 33% inthose situations. You understand he is a career 45% shooter? Youseriously expect him, or any player, to shoot the same percentage inthe most stressful of game situations? You're telling me 1 out 3 timeshe'll come through in the clutch is subpar? There's a lot more to thenumbers, too. Like of those 80 attempts, he probably got 5 or 10 cleanlooks. How many of those situations was he double and triple-teamed?Did he get mugged? Was the drawn up play pure crap? There's othervariables outside of the numbers. Bottom line: 33% is AWESOME.

Was he serious??

 

[703flipfiend]

The problem here is you're not giving us anything to put those numbers up against. How did MJ do in those situations? For all we know, those are better than Jordan's numbers... and I love MJ and hate Kobe. Just sayin', be smart and coherent with your arguments.

 

[fro b giant]

Originally Posted by Jonnny25

Originally Posted by CP1708

This thread is proof of why stats don't tell a whole story. 

If you want to just live off of 27-80 and not take each shot into consideration, then I don't know what to tell ya. 

Clutch doesn't mean he hits every shot.  We all know he doesn't.  It's not possible. 

Jordan missed a lot of game winners.  Horry missed a lot of game winners.  Reggie missed a lot of game winners. 

The thing is, they all have the stones to take those game winners, make or miss, and their teams trust them to continue to take those shots over and over. 

What the numbers say don't even matter.  If Kobe misses a no point of shooting 3 down by 5 with 7 seconds left, it counts against him.  If Amare dunks down by 5 with 7 seconds left, it counts FOR him, but they both lose the game.  Moral of the story is, stats don't tell the whole story.  Unless you are breaking those 80 shots down on a case by case basis, time left, points up or down, tied or whatever, they don't tell the whole and total truth.  So stop just believing every stat you see.   

that stat specifically states that they are shots with less than 24 seconds in one possession situations. Jordan, Horry, and Reggie missed a lot of game winners, but we don't know how many shots they missed compared to how many they made. We DO know that Kobe makes a lot of big shots, but he also misses a lot. The biggest point here is that he makes shots at a similar % compared to other players in these situations, so Kobe in the clutch is a bit overrated. Im not saying he isn't the guy I would want to take the last shot, but his clutchness is overrated especially when he takes every last second Laker shot.

I think the point CP was trying to make and that I would like to make is that the numbers don't tell the whole story. There isn't a number for when a player is trying to get the last shot but turns the ball over, or when he doesn't even get a shot off. There are many other factors to take into consideration. For example a wide open game winner is different than drawing double and triple teams and still getting a shot off and making it, I wonder how many of Kobe's shots were double teamed shots. What about being in double or triple team coverage and passing to an open man for the assisted game winner?
The point is that these numbers don't in themselves outline how clutch Kobe is or isn't. Whether somebody is clutch embodies many things, sometimes things you can't put into numbers.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by 22 Rather Unique 22

Originally Posted by 22 Rather Unique 22

Originally Posted by CP1708

This thread is proof of why stats don't tell a whole story. 

If you want to just live off of 27-80 and not take each shot into consideration, then I don't know what to tell ya. 

Clutch doesn't mean he hits every shot.  We all know he doesn't.  It's not possible. 

Jordan missed a lot of game winners.  Horry missed a lot of game winners.  Reggie missed a lot of game winners. 

The thing is, they all have the stones to take those game winners, make or miss, and their teams trust them to continue to take those shots over and over. 

What the numbers say don't even matter.  If Kobe misses a no point of shooting 3 down by 5 with 7 seconds left, it counts against him.  If Amare dunks down by 5 with 7 seconds left, it counts FOR him, but they both lose the game.  Moral of the story is, stats don't tell the whole story.  Unless you are breaking those 80 shots down on a case by case basis, time left, points up or down, tied or whatever, they don't tell the whole and total truth.  So stop just believing every stat you see.   

What in the $%+@ are you talking about? Did you even read the 2 sentences in my original post?

Actually I did, but I didn't see the one possesion part, that's my bad on that then.  So you can delete the down by five part, but the case by case basis still stands.  Unless you chart what the situations were, you can't just put those numbers up and that's that.  He hasn't shot 80 buzzer beaters obviously, so why throw some of those shots in?  

But that was my mistake on the one possesion part. 

  

 

[fro b giant]

Originally Posted by 22 Rather Unique 22

Originally Posted by Fro B Giant

I love when people got nothing better to do than hate. It's so Fabolous...

My point is that the %%$%# is not half as clutch as the riders make him out to be.

And I love when people think that stating facts is "hating."

What you are stating is not fact it is opinion, so yes it is hating...

 

[hybridsoldier23]

Post Jordan's numbers in relation to missed end of game shots and lets discuss it...

 

[erascism]

Originally Posted by Jonnny25

Originally Posted by CP1708

This thread is proof of why stats don't tell a whole story. 

If you want to just live off of 27-80 and not take each shot into consideration, then I don't know what to tell ya. 

Clutch doesn't mean he hits every shot.  We all know he doesn't.  It's not possible. 

Jordan missed a lot of game winners.  Horry missed a lot of game winners.  Reggie missed a lot of game winners. 

The thing is, they all have the stones to take those game winners, make or miss, and their teams trust them to continue to take those shots over and over. 

What the numbers say don't even matter.  If Kobe misses a no point of shooting 3 down by 5 with 7 seconds left, it counts against him.  If Amare dunks down by 5 with 7 seconds left, it counts FOR him, but they both lose the game.  Moral of the story is, stats don't tell the whole story.  Unless you are breaking those 80 shots down on a case by case basis, time left, points up or down, tied or whatever, they don't tell the whole and total truth.  So stop just believing every stat you see.   

that stat specifically stats that they are shots with less than 24 seconds in one possession situations. Jordan, Horry, and Reggie missed a lot of game winners, but we don't know how many shots they missed compared to how many they made. We DO know that Kobe makes a lot of big shots, but he also misses a lot. The biggest point here is that he makes shots at a similar % compared to other players in these situations, so Kobe in the clutch is a bit overrated. Im not saying he isn't the guy I would want to take the last shot, but his clutchness is overrated especially when he takes every last second Laker shot.

80 attempts though. The fact that a team could have a caliber of player that can take those shots is invaluable. You can give him the ball anywhere on the court and he will give you the best chance of making it. Horry and Reggie Miller needed some help in order to get their shots off (screens, penetration, Vlade Divac).

 

[jonnny25]

Originally Posted by ERASCISM

Originally Posted by 22 Rather Unique 22

Originally Posted by ERASCISM

Originally Posted by 22 Rather Unique 22

Originally Posted by AIRJORDAN JB23

Originally Posted by 22 Rather Unique 22

My point is that the %%$%# is not half as clutch as the riders make him out to be.

25 game winners isn't clutch?

27-80 over the past 8 seasons in clutch scenarios...that's 33%.

NO, that's NOT clutch.

You've never played basketball.

Silliman Activity and Family Aquatic Center
6800 Mowry Avenue
Newark, CA 94560


See me there tomorrow at 10am so I could prove you wrong.

*asks momma to iron my arm sleeve for tomorrow*

See you there, Lorenzo.



But seriously, you're saying he ain't clutch because he shoots 33% in those situations. You understand he is a career 45% shooter? You seriously expect him, or any player, to shoot the same percentage in the most stressful of game situations? You're telling me 1 out 3 times he'll come through in the clutch is subpar? There's a lot more to the numbers, too. Like of those 80 attempts, he probably got 5 or 10 clean looks. How many of those situations was he double and triple-teamed? Did he get mugged? Was the drawn up play pure crap? There's other variables outside of the numbers. Bottom line: 33% is AWESOME.

 

I dont think Kobes % in these situations is much higher than the rest of the league (I read it somewhere on espn). For everytime Kobe gets doubled and he's taking a fadaway, I wonder if giving it to Gasol or Odom would be the better option. Who's fault is it that he's taking such tough shots? When he makes those tough shots, Laker fans would be the first to say "wow amazing" but when he misses them, it makes it fine because it was such a tough shot? Bottom line: Kobe's % isnt that awesome and maybe he should pass it once in a while

 

[jonnny25]

Originally Posted by ERASCISM

Originally Posted by Jonnny25

Originally Posted by CP1708

This thread is proof of why stats don't tell a whole story. 

If you want to just live off of 27-80 and not take each shot into consideration, then I don't know what to tell ya. 

Clutch doesn't mean he hits every shot.  We all know he doesn't.  It's not possible. 

Jordan missed a lot of game winners.  Horry missed a lot of game winners.  Reggie missed a lot of game winners. 

The thing is, they all have the stones to take those game winners, make or miss, and their teams trust them to continue to take those shots over and over. 

What the numbers say don't even matter.  If Kobe misses a no point of shooting 3 down by 5 with 7 seconds left, it counts against him.  If Amare dunks down by 5 with 7 seconds left, it counts FOR him, but they both lose the game.  Moral of the story is, stats don't tell the whole story.  Unless you are breaking those 80 shots down on a case by case basis, time left, points up or down, tied or whatever, they don't tell the whole and total truth.  So stop just believing every stat you see.   

that stat specifically stats that they are shots with less than 24 seconds in one possession situations. Jordan, Horry, and Reggie missed a lot of game winners, but we don't know how many shots they missed compared to how many they made. We DO know that Kobe makes a lot of big shots, but he also misses a lot. The biggest point here is that he makes shots at a similar % compared to other players in these situations, so Kobe in the clutch is a bit overrated. Im not saying he isn't the guy I would want to take the last shot, but his clutchness is overrated especially when he takes every last second Laker shot.

80 attempts though. The fact that a team could have a caliber of player that can take those shots is invaluable. You can give him the ball anywhere on the court and he will give you the best chance of making it. Horry and Reggie Miller needed some help in order to get their shots off (screens, penetration, Vlade Divac).

Does he really give you the best chance of making it? Check the OP's post and look at the %

 

[darth dnzy]

Originally Posted by 22 Rather Unique 22

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=110

Kobe Bryant is shooting 61.5 percent from the field (8-for-13) in the final 24 seconds of one-possession games this season. In the preceding seven seasons, Bryant shot just 28.4 percent from the field (19-for-67) in those situations.

--You keep sayin read the original post. Ok, so he was clutch 19 times in the past 7 seasons then right? Thats more times than any playr I know in that span.
--Percentages shmercentages. Either you're clutch. Or you're not.

--Lock?

 

[MVP]

Originally Posted by Jonnny25

Originally Posted by ERASCISM

Originally Posted by Jonnny25

Originally Posted by CP1708

This thread is proof of why stats don't tell a whole story. 

If you want to just live off of 27-80 and not take each shot into consideration, then I don't know what to tell ya. 

Clutch doesn't mean he hits every shot.  We all know he doesn't.  It's not possible. 

Jordan missed a lot of game winners.  Horry missed a lot of game winners.  Reggie missed a lot of game winners. 

The thing is, they all have the stones to take those game winners, make or miss, and their teams trust them to continue to take those shots over and over. 

What the numbers say don't even matter.  If Kobe misses a no point of shooting 3 down by 5 with 7 seconds left, it counts against him.  If Amare dunks down by 5 with 7 seconds left, it counts FOR him, but they both lose the game.  Moral of the story is, stats don't tell the whole story.  Unless you are breaking those 80 shots down on a case by case basis, time left, points up or down, tied or whatever, they don't tell the whole and total truth.  So stop just believing every stat you see.   

that stat specifically stats that they are shots with less than 24 seconds in one possession situations. Jordan, Horry, and Reggie missed a lot of game winners, but we don't know how many shots they missed compared to how many they made. We DO know that Kobe makes a lot of big shots, but he also misses a lot. The biggest point here is that he makes shots at a similar % compared to other players in these situations, so Kobe in the clutch is a bit overrated. Im not saying he isn't the guy I would want to take the last shot, but his clutchness is overrated especially when he takes every last second Laker shot.

80 attempts though. The fact that a team could have a caliber of player that can take those shots is invaluable. You can give him the ball anywhere on the court and he will give you the best chance of making it. Horry and Reggie Miller needed some help in order to get their shots off (screens, penetration, Vlade Divac).

Does he really give you the best chance of making it? Check the OP's post and look at the %

Yes he does. He's the only one on the Lakers that can get a shot that he wants at anytime he wants and if its not there, he's the best playmaker as well. Sometimes it goes in and sometimes it doesn't, but I doubt you'll find anyone in the league that would want someone other than Kobe to take the last shot. I think he's held that title in the NBA GM poll for the last 8 or 9 years.

 

[CP1708]

I mean, why are we so desperate to say Kobe isn't clutch?  Does it matter? 

Steve Kerr is clutch, he's hit like 3 game winners in his life.  John Paxson has like 2, he's considered clutch. 

Fisher is clutch, he has about 4.  Horry is clutch, he has like 1,100.  Ok, bad example. 

But seriously, why so many numbers to try and prove the guy that has a whole damn bunch of game winners, isn't clutch?  I don't get it. 

 

[fro b giant]

Originally Posted by CP1708

I mean, why are we so desperate to say Kobe isn't clutch?  Does it matter? 

Steve Kerr is clutch, he's hit like 3 game winners in his life.  John Paxson has like 2, he's considered clutch. 

Fisher is clutch, he has about 4.  Horry is clutch, he has like 1,100.  Ok, bad example. 

But seriously, why so many numbers to try and prove the guy that has a whole damn bunch of game winners, isn't clutch?  I don't get it. 

Honestly if he wasn't clutch there would be no discussion. You don't see a topic called "Webber Stans..." it's because he's definitely not clutch. The fact the OP made this topic proves his clutch, he wan't provoked, he just tried to find a stat that fit his agenda.

 

[jonnny25]

Originally Posted by Mamba MVP

Originally Posted by Jonnny25

Originally Posted by ERASCISM

Originally Posted by Jonnny25

Originally Posted by CP1708

This thread is proof of why stats don't tell a whole story. 

If you want to just live off of 27-80 and not take each shot into consideration, then I don't know what to tell ya. 

Clutch doesn't mean he hits every shot.  We all know he doesn't.  It's not possible. 

Jordan missed a lot of game winners.  Horry missed a lot of game winners.  Reggie missed a lot of game winners. 

The thing is, they all have the stones to take those game winners, make or miss, and their teams trust them to continue to take those shots over and over. 

What the numbers say don't even matter.  If Kobe misses a no point of shooting 3 down by 5 with 7 seconds left, it counts against him.  If Amare dunks down by 5 with 7 seconds left, it counts FOR him, but they both lose the game.  Moral of the story is, stats don't tell the whole story.  Unless you are breaking those 80 shots down on a case by case basis, time left, points up or down, tied or whatever, they don't tell the whole and total truth.  So stop just believing every stat you see.   

that stat specifically stats that they are shots with less than 24 seconds in one possession situations. Jordan, Horry, and Reggie missed a lot of game winners, but we don't know how many shots they missed compared to how many they made. We DO know that Kobe makes a lot of big shots, but he also misses a lot. The biggest point here is that he makes shots at a similar % compared to other players in these situations, so Kobe in the clutch is a bit overrated. Im not saying he isn't the guy I would want to take the last shot, but his clutchness is overrated especially when he takes every last second Laker shot.

80 attempts though. The fact that a team could have a caliber of player that can take those shots is invaluable. You can give him the ball anywhere on the court and he will give you the best chance of making it. Horry and Reggie Miller needed some help in order to get their shots off (screens, penetration, Vlade Divac).

Does he really give you the best chance of making it? Check the OP's post and look at the %

Yes he does. He's the only one on the Lakers that can get a shot that he wants at anytime he wants and if its not there, he's the best playmaker as well. Sometimes it goes in and sometimes it doesn't, but I doubt you'll find anyone in the league that would want someone other than Kobe to take the last shot. I think he's held that title in the NBA GM poll for the last 8 or 9 years.

He's the best, but youre telling me Gasol and Odom can't create shots for other people? He's a playmaker, but does he ever pass off the last shot? nope.
"Over the last decade, by field goal percentage the best shooters inthis setting have been Carmelo Anthony (13-28, .464), Pau Gasol (9-22,.409), Tony Parker (11-29, .379), Chris Paul (9-24, .375) and ShawnMarion (10-28, .357). Bryant over the same period is 26-89 (.292)." - http://espn.go.com/blog/t...be-bryant-in-crunch-time

 

[fro b giant]

Originally Posted by Fro B Giant

Originally Posted by CP1708

I mean, why are we so desperate to say Kobe isn't clutch?  Does it matter? 

Steve Kerr is clutch, he's hit like 3 game winners in his life.  John Paxson has like 2, he's considered clutch. 

Fisher is clutch, he has about 4.  Horry is clutch, he has like 1,100.  Ok, bad example. 

But seriously, why so many numbers to try and prove the guy that has a whole damn bunch of game winners, isn't clutch?  I don't get it. 

Honestly if he wasn't clutch there would be no discussion. You don't see a topic called "Webber Stans..." it's because he's definitely not clutch. The fact the OP made this topic proves his clutch, he wan't provoked, he just tried to find a stat that fit his agenda to prove to everyone else who isn't on crack that he isn't clutch like we thought he was. Denny Green want's a word with you Fab.

 

[menacin methods]

This dude.

Your a fan of fabolous right? You ever hear his song paper man? Even he's a Kobe fan

"Greatest player at home like kobe in staples man"

 

[fro b giant]

Originally Posted by Jonnny25

Originally Posted by Mamba MVP

Originally Posted by Jonnny25

Originally Posted by ERASCISM

Originally Posted by Jonnny25

Originally Posted by CP1708

This thread is proof of why stats don't tell a whole story. 

If you want to just live off of 27-80 and not take each shot into consideration, then I don't know what to tell ya. 

Clutch doesn't mean he hits every shot.  We all know he doesn't.  It's not possible. 

Jordan missed a lot of game winners.  Horry missed a lot of game winners.  Reggie missed a lot of game winners. 

The thing is, they all have the stones to take those game winners, make or miss, and their teams trust them to continue to take those shots over and over. 

What the numbers say don't even matter.  If Kobe misses a no point of shooting 3 down by 5 with 7 seconds left, it counts against him.  If Amare dunks down by 5 with 7 seconds left, it counts FOR him, but they both lose the game.  Moral of the story is, stats don't tell the whole story.  Unless you are breaking those 80 shots down on a case by case basis, time left, points up or down, tied or whatever, they don't tell the whole and total truth.  So stop just believing every stat you see.   

that stat specifically stats that they are shots with less than 24 seconds in one possession situations. Jordan, Horry, and Reggie missed a lot of game winners, but we don't know how many shots they missed compared to how many they made. We DO know that Kobe makes a lot of big shots, but he also misses a lot. The biggest point here is that he makes shots at a similar % compared to other players in these situations, so Kobe in the clutch is a bit overrated. Im not saying he isn't the guy I would want to take the last shot, but his clutchness is overrated especially when he takes every last second Laker shot.

80 attempts though. The fact that a team could have a caliber of player that can take those shots is invaluable. You can give him the ball anywhere on the court and he will give you the best chance of making it. Horry and Reggie Miller needed some help in order to get their shots off (screens, penetration, Vlade Divac).

Does he really give you the best chance of making it? Check the OP's post and look at the %

Yes he does. He's the only one on the Lakers that can get a shot that he wants at anytime he wants and if its not there, he's the best playmaker as well. Sometimes it goes in and sometimes it doesn't, but I doubt you'll find anyone in the league that would want someone other than Kobe to take the last shot. I think he's held that title in the NBA GM poll for the last 8 or 9 years.

He's the best, but youre telling me Gasol and Odom can't create shots for other people? He's a playmaker, but does he ever pass off the last shot? nope.
"Over the last decade, by field goal percentage the best shooters inthis setting have been Carmelo Anthony (13-28, .464), Pau Gasol (9-22,.409), Tony Parker (11-29, .379), Chris Paul (9-24, .375) and ShawnMarion (10-28, .357). Bryant over the same period is 26-89 (.292)." - http://espn.go.com/blog/t...be-bryant-in-crunch-time

Again if you read my post on page 2 about halfway down, these numbers don't talk about the whole picture. It tells you Pau shot 9-22, it doesn't say if he was 2 feet from the basket after getting a rebound because his guy was busy double teaming Kobe so he got a freebie. It says nothing like that, so what are you saying Pau must be more clutch than Kobe??? Come on get off it, if you really believe that then I feel sorry for you.
Point is again, the numbers don't tell the whole story!!!

 

[ag 47]

Lock this Bull (get it?) up.

 

[MVP]

Originally Posted by Jonnny25

Originally Posted by Mamba MVP

Originally Posted by Jonnny25

Originally Posted by ERASCISM

Originally Posted by Jonnny25

Originally Posted by CP1708

This thread is proof of why stats don't tell a whole story. 

If you want to just live off of 27-80 and not take each shot into consideration, then I don't know what to tell ya. 

Clutch doesn't mean he hits every shot.  We all know he doesn't.  It's not possible. 

Jordan missed a lot of game winners.  Horry missed a lot of game winners.  Reggie missed a lot of game winners. 

The thing is, they all have the stones to take those game winners, make or miss, and their teams trust them to continue to take those shots over and over. 

What the numbers say don't even matter.  If Kobe misses a no point of shooting 3 down by 5 with 7 seconds left, it counts against him.  If Amare dunks down by 5 with 7 seconds left, it counts FOR him, but they both lose the game.  Moral of the story is, stats don't tell the whole story.  Unless you are breaking those 80 shots down on a case by case basis, time left, points up or down, tied or whatever, they don't tell the whole and total truth.  So stop just believing every stat you see.   

that stat specifically stats that they are shots with less than 24 seconds in one possession situations. Jordan, Horry, and Reggie missed a lot of game winners, but we don't know how many shots they missed compared to how many they made. We DO know that Kobe makes a lot of big shots, but he also misses a lot. The biggest point here is that he makes shots at a similar % compared to other players in these situations, so Kobe in the clutch is a bit overrated. Im not saying he isn't the guy I would want to take the last shot, but his clutchness is overrated especially when he takes every last second Laker shot.

80 attempts though. The fact that a team could have a caliber of player that can take those shots is invaluable. You can give him the ball anywhere on the court and he will give you the best chance of making it. Horry and Reggie Miller needed some help in order to get their shots off (screens, penetration, Vlade Divac).

Does he really give you the best chance of making it? Check the OP's post and look at the %

Yes he does. He's the only one on the Lakers that can get a shot that he wants at anytime he wants and if its not there, he's the best playmaker as well. Sometimes it goes in and sometimes it doesn't, but I doubt you'll find anyone in the league that would want someone other than Kobe to take the last shot. I think he's held that title in the NBA GM poll for the last 8 or 9 years.

He's the best, but youre telling me Gasol and Odom can't create shots for other people? He's a playmaker, but does he ever pass off the last shot? nope.
"Over the last decade, by field goal percentage the best shooters inthis setting have been Carmelo Anthony (13-28, .464), Pau Gasol (9-22,.409), Tony Parker (11-29, .379), Chris Paul (9-24, .375) and ShawnMarion (10-28, .357). Bryant over the same period is 26-89 (.292)." - http://espn.go.com/blog/t...be-bryant-in-crunch-time

They can't create shots for themselves AND for other people. That's the uniqueness of Kobe, if it's not there for a teammate, he can and does have the confidence to take the shot. Odom most of the time doesn't even want to shoot in the 1st qtr when he's wide open, let alone at the end of the game. And everyone has seen how tight and scared Pau gets this season when the pressure is on late in games.

Kobe DOES pass of the last shot, he did it earlier against the Grizzlies to a wide open Artest, and guess what happened...he missed. Also last year in the Finals before Fish hit that tying 3, he hit Pau with a crazy assist to keep the game within 3. OT of that same game, who got the assist to Fish for the dagger 3 to sink the Magic, yeah that guy Bean. He more often than not makes the right and best play, which just happens to be him taking the shot because he's the most capable of making it.

Would you really want anyone else in the league taking the final shot to tie or win a game? Like seriously why is this being discussed at all.