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‘Nova just lost to Penn
**LA LAKERS THREAD** Sitting on 17! 2023-2024 offseason begins
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by licensed to ball,
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I stand behind the Ingram comment. Dude is bollocks
Fox has played well this year and has made a big jump offensively. Is it impossible for Zo to make a similar jump??
But these players also have more scoring opportunities by virtue of being high usage. That’s why it’s unfair to compare Zo’s scoring to Fox’s. Compare Zo with a guard with similar usage %.
Again I’m not saying Zo is good offensively. He’s scoring less points than the average player would be expected to given the same exact shot attempts.
All I’m saying is
1. His growth isn’t static. If he can remain healthy for the offseason he will improve based on age, skill set and growth curves for similar players.
2. It is unfair to compare his Offensive output against high usage players.
3. Basketball is more than just scoring
Apparently ****** think his potential is tapped, he will never improve, and should be scoring 20 ppg at 16% usage. Literally no guard in the league is averaging more than 11.5 points with 16% usage lmao.
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Real ****. These dudes gonna be "our front office sucks" when he's bricking and looking old and if they traded Hart for him y'all gon be sick down the road.
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I don’t understand usage much so maybe you can explain it but it sounds like you’re saying Fox has the ball more and is “used” more by his team - more shots, more touches, more minutes etc
If that’s what you mean by “usage” then I would argue that if Zo had good mechanics and ability to create his own shot other than a step back 30 footer brick, then his usage would be higher. Especially last year with no Lebron when Zo could’ve really established and asserted himself. He would force the coaches to increase his usage because he would show he is capable.
And yes I do believe it’s impossible for him to make a jump to be on Fox’s level simply because of shooting mechanics and his mental state
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Not like Trevor was a #2 pick that we wasted. Just swapping a one year deal for another one year deal. Plus it means more minutes for Hart and insurance for BI’s frail ***
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Lakers did Bron client a favor and got him paid, its time to let him go now...
Bring TA back home...
10 year anniversary
Bring TA back home...
10 year anniversary
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So I’m reading Kcp and first round pick for ariza in a 3 team trade
What?!? First round pick AND Kcp? That’s ******ed. Lol at us if we do that. Those picks are so valuable to either include in bigger trade or actually draft a good 4 year rookie like hart with.
What?!? First round pick AND Kcp? That’s ******ed. Lol at us if we do that. Those picks are so valuable to either include in bigger trade or actually draft a good 4 year rookie like hart with.
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Thank you for this because I was about to vomit if we traded Hart + whoever for Ariza.
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Agreed. Can’t give up a first rounder. I’m afraid Magic is enamored with the Ariza name actin like it’s 2010-2016 Ariza
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Would rather do Kcp for fultz.
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De’Aaron Fox is better than Lonzo ball.
Fox has the potential to be the best two way point guard in the entire league. He might already be there.
Fox has the potential to be the best two way point guard in the entire league. He might already be there.
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hart for ariza isn’t possible, come on guys.
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Apologize for the essay lmao but skip to end for TLDR.
in layman’s terms usage% is a measure of team plays used by a player. So think of shot attempts to be directly related to higher usage. More shots = higher usage. PPG is a product of usage where more volume=more points. (Similar to RBI in baseball. It’s an opportunistic stat. Mookie betts only had 80 RBI but created way more runs for the team). Zach lavine and Donovan Mitchell get buckets but their shot selection is a net negative for the team (ingram as well). High usage or high ppg doesn’t always mean effective.
That’s why I think we should be more concerned with efficiency (POE/PIPM) rather than ppg. Zo has never been a high usage player, dating back to UCLA. He was extremely valuable because he was efficient and affected all facets of the game while still being low usage. He literally only took open 3s and shots at the rim. Basically only plays with high PPP. His game was centered around pushing the ball and getting others high % looks
If we want Zo to be a more effective scorer then Luke needs to do a better job utilizing him and getting him open 3s and shots at the rim. Zo isn’t at his best when he has to create his own shot in the half court (we’ve seen he’s capable of breaking down the defense and driving to the rim—but he tends to pass the ball or get his shot blocked). But this is where Luke should utilize ball as a SG and have him come off screens, cut to the rim—things Zo is very good at. instead Luke has him standing around or setting screens. That is not playing to his strength. And then of course Zo has to do a better job converting on the looks he gets. Which he’s done a poor job at.
But the underlying issues to his subpar offense I think are all correctable. I think he can resolve his mental/confidence issues. I think he can finish at the rim better as he builds more strength/explosion in his legs and learns angles. I think his shooting mechanics can be refined with a full offseason of work. Read this thread by Cranjis that discusses development curves for a player like Lonzo. The areas that typically see greatest growth within 5 years is one on one and finishing. In one year with no offseason Zo has seen considerable growth in both areas. He’s exceeded growth expectations in off ball movement. His perimeter shooting outlook isn’t promising but he’s improved there slightly as well. Again, all without any offseason.
I guess we agree on his issues but disagree on his ability to overcome them. To me, missing the offseason was huge. The offseason is the time to tinker with mechanics and work on things. He literally didn’t get that opportunity.
TLDR: I believe his offensive impact extends beyond the box score and is not limited to his PPG. And based on his injury hindering his development and the data that shows he should see improvement in several key areas over the next few years, I believe he will progress into a quality player.
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100% THIS
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I'd rather have Zo than Fox. Spida and Tatum is a different conversation but Kuzma nullifies those choices.
If you don't see what Zo is, that's cool but dude will get there. The game is just too easy for him, he' just in
his head and hasn't fully settled. But when he's comfortable, you can tell and he plays exceptional ball.
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He's definitely in his own head. I still expect him to figure it out but I can't ignore how bad he looks at times. That behind the back pass was just embarrassing. His lack of offense is really holding him back. He just needs to be average
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Dipo played the highest minutes of his career that year in ORLANDO. He's definitely a more dynamic scorer than Zo
so looking at offense would definitely be in Dipo's favor. His rebounding is fine but his assists went down consistently through
the years til he got traded to Indy which was his 5th year.
TLDR: Dipo is one dimensional UNTIL his 5th year. So you like 1D players? that's cool.
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he'll be a dependable scorer. Kidd. Rondo (who was a liability on O for a while). It's just something that will happen with time and work.
dude averaged 10-7-7 in his Rookie year.
There's no reason to think that's his best year.
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Let me go on the record and say that Pope and the first round pick for Ariza is a bad trade. I'd be willing to trade KCP by himself or just a first round pick for Arixa but not both. If you wash him in Phoenix, he looks washed.
I know our first round pick will (likely) be in the mid-to-late twenties but it's still worth more than something to attach to Pope in order to rent a Ariza for a season.
I know our first round pick will (likely) be in the mid-to-late twenties but it's still worth more than something to attach to Pope in order to rent a Ariza for a season.
