Law School???

[impalaballa187]

Harvard/Stanford are my ideal choices, but I'll apply to each of the T10. My ultimate goal is to get a dual JD/MBA from one of them. Cornell is my straightup safety school though, I can't do anymore years than necessary in this place

. But obviously the 2 most important factors for LS admission are yourLSAT score and GPA. If you shooting for top 10 you're gonna need >170 LSAT and >3.5 GPA. Higher scores in one can offset lower scores in the other though. Also want to see extra-curriculars as well.

 

[norcalballgirl23]

Getting in is just the beginning. Don't jump into on a whim, make sure you're committed cuz your first year will be hell (at most schools).
to everyone taking the mpre on fri...yay we'll be done with the easy part of the bar! LOL

 

[sstutter]

Originally Posted by Joseph Camel Jr

nah imo columbia is cool , cornell is way too upstate + cold + suicidal student body

Word.

jcach, you're going to Boalt Hall?

 

[rgoya]

Not to threadjack but how hard is it to become a lawyer with a criminal past? I was arrested and charged with 2 felonies a few months back. Would I be wastingmy time and money going to law school and not being able to allowed to even take the state bar?

 

[beats05]

I'm starting at Columbia Law in 2 weeks. 4.04 GPA in Statistics with a Math concentration + Economics at Cal, 172 LSAT, good softs but I didn't savethe world or win an Emmy or anything like that, straight from undergrad. No rejections but getting wait-listed at each of Harvard, Stanford, and Yale wasannoying. The process is painful, stressful, arbitrary, at times unfair, and always expensive. Get ready. I'm $68,000 in debt and that's just year 1.Keep an eye out in the pick up post in 4 or so years to see if this whole idea paid off

.

 

[beats05]

I'm not an admissions officer by any means, but I've done a good bit of research on the admin process, and having just gone through the admissions cycle myself, your major isn't a deciding factor when it comes to getting into law school. All things being equal, if you have two candidates, one with a 3.8 Poli Sci GPA and the other with a 3.0 Engineering GPA, the 3.8 will still look better to the vast majority of adcoms. The importance of your major comes into play when the numbers are close, a 3.6 Econ GPA versus a 3.7 Poli Sci GPA, for instance.
The reason for this is the rankings. Higher median LSAT's and GPA's of a school's incoming class increase its ranking score. While itis much easier to get a 4.0 in typical pre-law majors than get a 3.3 in a legit engineering program, majors don't factor into school rankings--and let metell you, they care about those rankings a lot. Rankings are also why something called "yield protection" exists--i.e. rejecting or wait-listingoverqualified candidates because of an assumption that they won't attend. % yield factors into rankings as well...

But truthfully, engineers and scientists complaining about the GPA thing should get over themselves. Yes you had harder classes and studied more in undergrad(I took upper division Berkeley Math so I know a little bit about undergrad hell classes), but knowing how to code triple integral algorithms won't helpyou in Constitutional Law your first year. The Poli Sci or History majors who have already seen the cases you study in Con Law multiple times probably evenhave an advantage over you. The technical undergrad degrees don't really come in handy or become relevant until you start working, a time at which theHistory major who got a 4.0 will have gotten into and graduated from Harvard and will be making more money than you. If you want to be rewarded for yourtechnical major right now, do something that applies it right now.

To speak from experience and people I know, if you want Harvard, Yale, or Stanford and are willing to put all your eggs in one basket, go take an easy major aslong as it has reading and writing in it, get your 4.0+, and devote the time the technical major folks spend in labs to studying for the LSAT and doingextraordinary extracurricular activities and jobs. But you better not bomb the LSAT. If you do, no law school and probably no job because of your easy major.

 

[cjdynasty]

Go to an Ivy league or top 10 school, and you will be set. Trust me. You wont have to worry about failing out after the first year, nor will you have a hardtime landing a job. Oh yea, for those with hard science backgrounds (ie: engineer majors), the best thing you could ever do is go to law school (Any law schoolfor that matter) and specialize in Intellectual Property (copyrights, trademarks, PATENTS). Being able to prosecute patents = 160K right out of law school.What other profession do you know of that you could make 160K after 3 years of schooling???

 

[beats05]

^Yep. 160K is standard starting salary for Big Law. Not just patent law. It's a beautiful thing, but if it was easy to get into, more people would do it.

 

[kvsm23vs24]

Question to OP, I'm about to start college and I'm undecided for my major.

So what exactly is electrical engineering?

 

[nako xl]

Originally Posted by Beats05

^Yep. 160K is standard starting salary for Big Law. Not just patent law. It's a beautiful thing, but if it was easy to get into, more people would do it.

for big law? as in any corporate field? naw the median starting salary is falling...

 

[jcach]

Originally Posted by sStutter

Originally Posted by Joseph Camel Jr

nah imo columbia is cool , cornell is way too upstate + cold + suicidal student body

Word.

jcach, you're going to Boalt Hall?

Yeah, I'll be starting my 1L year in ten days. Coming from cold %$% Michigan, I'm pretty excited to be living in the Bay. Not thatI'll have any time to explore...

 

[bijald0331]

Beats05, you are the smartest person on NT ive seen so far. Damn, 4.04 is amazing. Hate the whole A+ system. My school, Northwestern, doesn't give A+ yetthey give A-. Not that I would have gotten an A+ but still it's messed they have that. +!#%, I currently have a 3.4 from there after 2 years and amdoubling in Econ/History and am looking forward to taking the LSAT. But I feel like a dope next to you.

 

[jcach]

Originally Posted by Beats05

I'm starting at Columbia Law in 2 weeks. 4.04 GPA in Statistics with a Math concentration + Economics at Cal, 172 LSAT, good softs but I didn't save the world or win an Emmy or anything like that, straight from undergrad. No rejections but getting wait-listed at each of Harvard, Stanford, and Yale was annoying. The process is painful, stressful, arbitrary, at times unfair, and always expensive. Get ready. I'm $68,000 in debt and that's just year 1. Keep an eye out in the pick up post in 4 or so years to see if this whole idea paid off

.

Damn Beats, congrats on Columbia. Not getting rejected at Yale right off the bat is an accomplishment in itself. You went to Cal undergrad? Anytips on hot food joints, bars, etc?

For those interested in law school, the parts in bold are the truth. It will be a long six months, longer if you're sitting on a waitlist. Law schoolisn't something you decide to pursue on a random Saturday night. It's a major, major investment. Case in point,I'm right around $72K in debt for this first year. California's insane financial situation = exploding tuition for the loss...

 

[sstutter]

Originally Posted by jcach

Originally Posted by sStutter

Originally Posted by Joseph Camel Jr

nah imo columbia is cool , cornell is way too upstate + cold + suicidal student body

Word.

jcach, you're going to Boalt Hall?

Yeah, I'll be starting my 1L year in ten days. Coming from cold %$% Michigan, I'm pretty excited to be living in the Bay. Not that I'll have any time to explore...

Congrats, man. Getting into Boalt is one of my goals.

 

[nako xl]

Originally Posted by jcach

Originally Posted by Beats05

I'm starting at Columbia Law in 2 weeks. 4.04 GPA in Statistics with a Math concentration + Economics at Cal, 172 LSAT, good softs but I didn't save the world or win an Emmy or anything like that, straight from undergrad. No rejections but getting wait-listed at each of Harvard, Stanford, and Yale was annoying. The process is painful, stressful, arbitrary, at times unfair, and always expensive. Get ready. I'm $68,000 in debt and that's just year 1. Keep an eye out in the pick up post in 4 or so years to see if this whole idea paid off

.

Damn Beats, congrats on Columbia. Not getting rejected at Yale right off the bat is an accomplishment in itself. You went to Cal undergrad? Any tips on hot food joints, bars, etc?

For those interested in law school, the parts in bold are the truth. It will be a long six months, longer if you're sitting on a waitlist. Law school isn't something you decide to pursue on a random Saturday night. It's a major, major investment. Case in point, I'm right around $72K in debt for this first year. California's insane financial situation = exploding tuition for the loss...

i'm $70k (plus interest) in debt following year one.

same loan so add another $70k on top for this year. womp womp.

 

[beats05]

for big law? as in any corporate field? naw the median starting salary is falling...
I meant the top ranking corporate firms. I thought I could be careless with the lingo because I didn't think anyone would catch it. ButI've read articles saying that that starting salary may drop soon if it hasn't already.

Damn Beats, congrats on Columbia. Not getting rejected at Yale right off the bat is an accomplishment in itself. You went to Cal undergrad? Any tips on hot food joints, bars, etc?
Thanks. I didn't turn 21 until like just now so I don't know much about the bar scene. Food on the other hand, I got. Zachary's Pizzais my favorite restaurant in Berkeley by far. Best pizza I've had in my life. Best salads in town (I didn't like salad until I went to this place) arein a restaurant on Telegraph close to campus. It was Cafe Intermezzo but they changed the name to something I can't recall right now. Top Dog is terrificfor hot dogs--best I've ever tasted. For Chinese your best bet is taking the shuttle to UC Davis and going to a place called Red Orchid. While you'rein Davis ($9 shuttle away...), you might as well check out their Sushi buffets. Going back to Berkeley, for Indian, House of Curries is tops. If you'reballin, then there's Chez Panisse, which is ranked as one of the top restaurants in the entire world. There's also this insane sushi place whereit's like $7 for one slice off one roll--also you must have lots of cash which I pretty much never had until my senior year when I worked a lot.Breakfast--Anne's Kitchen for the basics, Durant Cafe for variety. I could go on, but it's probably getting kind of creepy. The best thing about foodin Berkeley is there's variety for all budgets.

Beats05, you are the smartest person on NT ive seen so far. Damn, 4.04 is amazing. Hate the whole A+ system. My school, Northwestern, doesn't give A+ yet they give A-. Not that I would have gotten an A+ but still it's messed they have that. +!#%, I currently have a 3.4 from there after 2 years and am doubling in Econ/History and am looking forward to taking the LSAT. But I feel like a dope next to you.

The A+ thing isn't always fair. Not all teachers at Cal even know that you can give them, let alone that they could matter for anything. I happened to getlucky and found a few teachers who gave them. Best of luck on the LSAT. Not to put any additional pressure on you or anything since I'm guessing youalready know this, but, speaking from experience and endless hours on the top-law-school forums and lawschoolnumbers--unless you're shooting for BoaltHall--the LSAT is easily the #1 most important thing that will be on your application. It's pretty ridiculous how much weight adcomms put on 1 or 2 pointdifferences in scores. On my test, there was no 173 score available, and at the last 10 seconds I was about to erase and fix an error I caught, but was told toput my pencil down. That brought me from 174 to 172, and not only were the admission rates for 174's much higher than for 172's forHarvard/Yale/Stanford, the 172 cost me an application fee waiver for Columbia (friends of mine who got 174 or higher got fee waivers...). Get that 180 andunless you're a murderer or the most boring person on the planet, you're a lock for at least one of HYS. It's doable with enough practice andfearlessness.

 

[beats05]

jcach--I'm wondering if we met on Boalt's admitted student's day. Did you go? I spoke to at least 2 people from Michigan I believe, one when thefire alarms kicked us out of the main auditorium and another on the lawn for that free lunch. I was really torn between Boalt and Columbia/NYU (and there wasfree food, t-shirts, and info) so I tried to let them win me over, and they almost got me with their Pilipino American Law Society. But the intrigue of goingEast--I've lived in Northern California my entire life and went to Cal for 4 years--tipped the scale. If it doesn't work out I may try to transfer toBoalt after a year though. It's a comfortable place with great professors and top notch programs.

 

[jillian808]

For two of my LORs I asked professors with whom I had personal relationships. They were able to create letters with specific examples of work that I had done, my contributions in class, etc. I think this was really important, since most adcoms are looking for an idea of your specific performance in the classroom, rather than generic accolades. I gave both of them my resume and copies of papers I had written and past exams, just to refresh their memory and provide them with some concrete stuff.

It depends what kind of "minority" you are. If you're an underrepresented minority (URM) you're golden. There's a lot of debate about what qualifies as URM status. It's safe to say that if you're black, native american, mexican, puerto rican or from some other ethnic group that's typically underrepresented in law school (i.e. not white or asian) you're good to go. It's actually pretty confusing and ambiguous. If you feel like you're minority status played an important role in your life/upbringing/education you can also address it in your personal statement.

For those really interested in law school, I recommend www.top-law-schools.com. Lot of information here.


Have you ever heard anything about Pacific Islanders?

 

[beats05]

^LSAC, the organization through which you submit your law school applications, just now--as in last month--separated their Asian category into severalsubcategories, so the jury is still out on whether Pacific Islanders get URM status. Most people outside highly populated Asian states like California, stillsee Pacific Islanders, especially Filipinos as "Asians," even though Pacific Islanders fit the statistical profile of other sure URM's in termsof their population representation to law school representation ratio. I just know that I mentioned being Filipino in my application and Harvard/Yale/Stanforddidn't seem to care. A URM with 4.04/172 is an auto-admit in any school, so I'm guessing at least those schools just saw me as Asian.

 

[jthagreat]

Hey yall. I wish yall the best. I never consider Lawschool cause well the work seems Ridic.

But yall keep strivin and i hope it pays off. Did yall grow up wanting to be lawyers, was it mostly money, just smart? what was the motivation or turning pointthat said " i want to go to law school?"

anyone have there masters here? my bad for the broad questions, just curious i guess.

 

[skip2mylou23]

I am considering law school but maybe after a few years of working as a CPA.