LeBron Haters Call To Arms! (The Haters Unification Thread)

[acbboyz84]

If I could have the power to smack one of these dudes from my computer smh. Lol

 

[acbboyz84]

LOL. You call others "90's born kids" but dont even know the names of half the players you listed. It's Detlef Schrempf. Rik Smits. You sure you arent a "90's born kid"? Daleth Shremp

Doesnt matter. Don't pretend like you don't know. You know who I'm talking about dawg.

My iPad auto fill feature kept messing up names that i typed.

 

[quik1987]

But Kobe is not the same level as Lebron, so Kobe's rings are irrelevant.

Lebron has 4 mvps Kobe only has 1

4 > 1

But Kobe is not the same level as Lebron, so Kobe's rings are irrelevant.

Lebron has 4 mvps Kobe only has 1

4 > 1

Hard to see someone with your avatar posting from an unbiased point of view.

As with your Laker avy

 

[cedric ceballos]

As with your Laker avy

I can view things from an unbiased perspective though. Something you should learn or try doing. I've been a laker fan before Kobe and will be a laker fan after Kobe. He's not the end all be all for me when it comes to basketball.

 

[quik1987]

So why has Kobe only won 1 MVP?

Take away Kobe's first 3 rings that Shaq gave to him

Lebron already > Kobe

Especially when you take into consideration how many more seasons Kobe has played.

Lebron doesn't have to win anymore rings to pass Kobe, it already happened.

 

[cedric ceballos]

How did Shaq give Kobe those rings?

Again your proving you can't handle this topic from an unbiased perspective but that's what's expected from someone who takes enjoyment in seeing a player they don't like suffer a serious injury.

MVP voting is flawed btw. You can make an argument for lebron being MVP in 2011 if anything.

 

[ohmygosher]

Winning a championship is a team accomplishment, mvps and finals mvps are individual accomplishments.


So if we're talking about individual players and their individual accomplishments


Jordan > Lebron > Duncan > Kobe

More often than not Leaque MVPs also go to best player on one of the best team.

Finals MVP is definitely individual award, but you have to win Finals as team before you can even get that award.

Valid point.

Will wait to see if he actually addresses this or ignores it.

 

[Baby Face Nelson]

Youre wrong bro if you think The lakers had to play at their top game for those 3 finals.
The real finals in term of competition for them was in the playoff.

Shaquille was being checked by Macculough, shremp, dale Davis, rik smith etc in the finals man lol.

They got cocky and let game 1 in 2001 slipped but they woke up soon after and the rest was history.

As far as 04. It wasn't just kobe fault. Karl Malone was hurt they had to rely on madevenko to guard sheed. he couldnt stop him. Gary Payton didn't know how to play under the triangle offense. The lakers didn't expect to play against one of the league best defensive team ever. That prime 04 piston team held various teams under 70 points for multiple stretches.

     Son, what is the matter with you? What player or team in pursuit of a championship doesn't play on top of their game in the Finals? That's why all the greats numbers are better in the Finals compared to the Playoffs, and Regular Season because the stakes are higher.

What NBA Finals were you watching where Detkef Schrempf was guarding Shaq? Rik Smiths is 7'4 and Dale Davis was a solid interior defender, why wouldn't you throw those bodies on Shaq? And I guess your rookie 3rd string Center would have to guard after he got the Defensive Player of the Year, and second stringer Matt Geiger in foul trouble? Oh my bad, you were talking about when Todd Macculough started in the Finals for the Nets but averaged 15 mins a game and Jason Collings and Aaron Williams were checking Shaq for the majority of the game.

You're going for your fourth title in five years, don't tell me they didn't expect to play against on of the leagues best defensive teams. The Pistons were shutting teams down all year, their play did not come to as a surprise. Payton didn't know the offense the whole year, and as much as Malone's injury was a blow to the Lakers, Kobe trying to go 1 against 3 while shooting 38% percent from the field and 17% from three was even more detrimental.

 

[quik1987]

How did he not? Shaq was the most dominant player during that 3-peat

Things Shaq accomplished during that 3-peat:
MVP
3 Finals MVP
Scoring Title
3 NBA first team

Kobe:
1 NBA first team (2002)
1 NBA d first team (2000)

 

[Humbled]

Ah, the age old Kobe/LeBron debate. Never gets old... IMO Kobe and LeBron are MUCH closer than people think. I'll still give the nod to Kobe of course because he had already played 8 years by the time Bron came into the league and had already racked up a bunch of All Star and All NBA team awards, but at the rate LBJ is going he is going to eclipse Kobe in the next few years without a doubt. That's not to take anything away from Kobe at all, because dude has been absolutely amazing throughout his career.

I look at it like this:

LeBron's 4 MVP's = Kobe's 1 MVP + 3 Rings as a 2nd option. (PLEASE do not say Kobe was 1B to Shaq's 1A in those 3-Peats... We all know Shaq was the driving force behind those titles. Dude was a DAMN good 2nd option though.)

LeBron's 2 Rings + 2 Finals MVP's = Kobe's 2 Rings + 2 Finals MVP's in 09-10 (Both guys lead their teams to these rings as the 1st option, so its even)

Kobe > LeBron in every other award area due to longevity, but barring injury I can see Bron getting damn close to matching Kobe's All Star Games/All Star MVP's, All-NBA appearances, etc.

That's just me tho. We gotta see what Bron does for the rest of his career to really compare.

 

[ohmygosher]

Second title playoff run:

Shaq 30.4 ppg 15.4 reb 3.2 ast
Kobe 29.4 ppg 7.3 reb 6.1 ast

Third title playoff run:

Shaq 28.5 ppg 12.6 reb 2.8 ast
Kobe 26.6 ppg 5.8 reb 4.6 ast

 

[dt43]

Second title playoff run:

Shaq 30.4 ppg 15.4 reb 3.2 ast
Kobe 29.4 ppg 7.3 reb 6.1 ast

Third title playoff run:

Shaq 28.5 ppg 12.6 reb 2.8 ast
Kobe 26.6 ppg 5.8 reb 4.6 ast

And on top of that scoring, Kobe was playing elite lockdown defense on the other end.

Since some of you guys need your memory refreshed, here is an SI article from '01 when people were talking about him being the best all-around player in the league

Indeed, after a string of virtuoso performances in the playoffs, Bryant is no longer merely one of the NBA's new young stars; he's the best of them, and he may be the finest all-around player in the game. With all due respect for the prolific scoring of Allen Iverson and Vince Carter in the Philadelphia 76ers- Toronto Raptors series (box, page 42) and for O'Neal's domination of the Portland Trail Blazers and the Kings in Rounds 1 and 2, Bryant has been the most compelling act of the postseason. Through Monday he was averaging 32.0 points, 7.3 rebounds and 5.4 assists in 42.8 minutes, and he's been equally effective on defense. His harassment had the Spurs' guards struggling to make entry passes to big men Tim Duncan and David Robinson in Game 1, and he threw in a steal and a blocked shot—both of them spectacular—for good measure. "I don't want to be known as a great scorer," Bryant says. "I want to be known as a great basketball player."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1022606/index.htm


But nah, we'll just revise history and say that Kobe was riding Shaq's coattails...

 

[vindeezy]

^^precisely..people are prisoners of the moment and quick to forget. I always say..wait till "so and so" player is retired and re assess things then.

 

[gmoney7781]

Thanks for posting those Kobe/Shaq stats. Makes me appreciate Kobe a little more. Crazy how good they both were

 

[acbboyz84]

     Son, what is the matter with you? What player or team in pursuit of a championship doesn't play on top of their game in the Finals? That's why all the greats numbers are better in the Finals compared to the Playoffs, and Regular Season because the stakes are higher.

What NBA Finals were you watching where Detkef Schrempf was guarding Shaq? Rik Smiths is 7'4 and Dale Davis was a solid interior defender, why wouldn't you throw those bodies on Shaq? And I guess your rookie 3rd string Center would have to guard after he got the Defensive Player of the Year, and second stringer Matt Geiger in foul trouble? Oh my bad, you were talking about when Todd Macculough started in the Finals for the Nets but averaged 15 mins a game and Jason Collings and Aaron Williams were checking Shaq for the majority of the game.

You're going for your fourth title in five years, don't tell me they didn't expect to play against on of the leagues best defensive teams. The Pistons were shutting teams down all year, their play did not come to as a surprise. Payton didn't know the offense the whole year, and as much as Malone's injury was a blow to the Lakers, Kobe trying to go 1 against 3 while shooting 38% percent from the field and 17% from three was even more detrimental.

I must have mistaken Rik Smith for Shremp lol. But anyway

Dale Davis and Rik Smith YEAP. Those dudes were too easy for Shaq. Dale Davis is undersized and Rik Smith is like a tall Luke Walton with no physicality inside. You tell me those dudes were problem to Shaq down low? lol.

Like i said. Lakers didn't have to play their A+ game to win those Finals. The challenge wasn't there. They had to play their A+ game though in the playoff because those were the real challenges. The 00 Pacers was not as much of a problem to the Lakers compare to team like Blazers and Spurs in 2000 playoff.
01 Philly was not a threat to the Lakers at all compare to the 01 Kings or 01 Spurs. 02 Nets was not even a contest but the 02 Kings almost gave the Lakers fan a heart attack in the WCF.

Come on bro. You really think team like 01 Philly, 00 Pacers or 02 Nets would have survived in the West playoff?

Finally Lakers barely got ready the 04 Piston. Give credit for Piston defense. They held teams under 70 points. Imo they played similar to Tom Thibodeau Bulls defense but with better timing, physical and discipline. Lakers didn't know what was coming to get them. They had an old beat up Malone and an out of shape Shaq with no serviceable bench. With Malone down and out they really had no one to stop Sheed. He was killing the Lakers from three and from pick and pop with Chauncey. Prime Ben Wallace was also a beast defensively. One on one he wasn't going to stop Shaq but you saw how he was frustrating the hell out of Shaq and make Shaq earn his baskets. Unfortunately when Shaq was fouled dude bricked like 70% of his freethrows. They lost not because solely of Kobe 38% shooting. Lakers had no answer on defense for Piston. Imo if Fisher or Payton could hold their ground on Chauncey then Kobe would have had a better time on offense. Dude was gassed trying to chase Rip Hamilton around thus it effected his stamina on offense. Tayshawn Prince length also bothered him a lot.

 

[mister friendly]

Kobe and Shaq were 1a and 1b especially after the 1st championship. That's a fact. It was that way because each did something the other could not.

 

[acbboyz84]

Ah, the age old Kobe/LeBron debate. Never gets old... IMO Kobe and LeBron are MUCH closer than people think. I'll still give the nod to Kobe of course because he had already played 8 years by the time Bron came into the league and had already racked up a bunch of All Star and All NBA team awards, but at the rate LBJ is going he is going to eclipse Kobe in the next few years without a doubt. That's not to take anything away from Kobe at all, because dude has been absolutely amazing throughout his career.

I look at it like this:

LeBron's 4 MVP's = Kobe's 1 MVP + 3 Rings as a 2nd option. (PLEASE do not say Kobe was 1B to Shaq's 1A in those 3-Peats... We all know Shaq was the driving force behind those titles. Dude was a DAMN good 2nd option though.)

LeBron's 2 Rings + 2 Finals MVP's = Kobe's 2 Rings + 2 Finals MVP's in 09-10 (Both guys lead their teams to these rings as the 1st option, so its even)

Kobe > LeBron in every other award area due to longevity, but barring injury I can see Bron getting damn close to matching Kobe's All Star Games/All Star MVP's, All-NBA appearances, etc.

That's just me tho. We gotta see what Bron does for the rest of his career to really compare.

So one put up 30 ppg a game and the other one was also put up 30 ppg a game but some how that's not 1A and 1B to you? You know playoff wise Kobe was the MVP. Too bad they don't give playoff MVP.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

So does playing with a dominant big man make the game easier for a great perimeter player?

Shaq was still the one getting double teamed during those championship runs.

But we just like to post stats to make ourselves feels better about it.

Lebron is Shaq.

 

[sea manup]

So does playing with a dominant big man make the game easier for a great perimeter player?

Shaq was still the one getting double teamed during those championship runs.

But we just like to post stats to make ourselves feels better about it.

Lebron is Shaq.

you say that as if kobe never got shaq open looks, not saying it was 50-50 but it works both ways

 

[ohmygosher]

So does playing with a dominant big man make the game easier for a great perimeter player?

Shaq was still the one getting double teamed during those championship runs.

But we just like to post stats to make ourselves feels better about it.

Lebron is Shaq.

Explain to me how a double team on shaq helped Kobe. And also when and where these double teams were coming from.

Now, I know the answer, so please don't respond with a question. I just don't think you know the answer and are just spouting stuff out that you feel sounds right.

It's time to start calling dudes out on their bball knowledge.

This is specifically for sneakerpro, so please no one else jump in.

 

[mister friendly]

So does playing with a dominant big man make the game easier for a great perimeter player?

Yes, If you're a catch and shoot 3 point shooter but if you're a slasher who wants to attack the rim.....no because it screws up the spacing.

 

[sea manup]

So does playing with a dominant big man make the game easier for a great perimeter player?

Yes, If you're a catch and shoot 3 point shooter but if you're a slasher who wants to attack the rim.....no because it screws up the spacing.

you cant say it didnt make it easier for kobe, just like you cant say kobe didnt make the game easier for shaq

there is a reason they were the greatest one two punch in nba history, just because everyone seems to have a side in this kobe shaq thing shouldnt take away from what they were as a whole

 

[SneakerProSr.]

So does playing with a dominant big man make the game easier for a great perimeter player?

Yes, If you're a catch and shoot 3 point shooter but if you're a slasher who wants to attack the rim.....no because it screws up the spacing.

you cant say it didnt make it easier for kobe, just like you cant say kobe didnt make the game easier for shaq

there is a reason they were the greatest one two punch in nba history, just because everyone seems to have a side in this kobe shaq thing shouldnt take away from what they were as a whole

If your a slasher the bigs can't come and help on your drives.

A contested floater is better for the defense than Shaq putting his man through the hoop.

Shaq and Kobe were great and this whole Kobe rode Shaq's coattails business is overblown.

However when it comes down to the get down a dominant big will always have a greater impact on a basketball game than a dominant guard.

 

[mister friendly]

So does playing with a dominant big man make the game easier for a great perimeter player?

Yes, If you're a catch and shoot 3 point shooter but if you're a slasher who wants to attack the rim.....no because it screws up the spacing.

you cant say it didnt make it easier for kobe, just like you cant say kobe didnt make the game easier for shaq

there is a reason they were the greatest one two punch in nba history, just because everyone seems to have a side in this kobe shaq thing shouldnt take away from what they were as a whole

If your a slasher the bigs can't come and help on your drives.

A contested floater is better for the defense than Shaq putting his man through the hoop.

Shaq and Kobe were great and this whole Kobe rode Shaq's coattails business is overblown.

However when it comes down to the get down a dominant big will always have a greater impact on a basketball game than a dominant guard.

I can agree with the last part of your reply but I don't agree with the beginning part

 

[sea manup]

So does playing with a dominant big man make the game easier for a great perimeter player?

Yes, If you're a catch and shoot 3 point shooter but if you're a slasher who wants to attack the rim.....no because it screws up the spacing.

you cant say it didnt make it easier for kobe, just like you cant say kobe didnt make the game easier for shaq

there is a reason they were the greatest one two punch in nba history, just because everyone seems to have a side in this kobe shaq thing shouldnt take away from what they were as a whole

If your a slasher the bigs can't come and help on your drives.

A contested floater is better for the defense than Shaq putting his man through the hoop.

Shaq and Kobe were great and this whole Kobe rode Shaq's coattails business is overblown.

However when it comes down to the get down a dominant big will always have a greater impact on a basketball game than a dominant guard.

I can agree with the last part of your reply but I don't agree with the beginning part

well thats what was unstoppable about the combo, if kobe gets in the lane the opposing big has to pick between giving kobe an open dunk or leaving shaq open. this dynamic is summed up perfectly in that legendary game 7 ally opp vs portland, kobe beats pippin off the dribble, brian grant and sheed come to help and he just lobs it over them to shaq