Lets Discuss The Industry

[crazy ebw]

I've only wore my 2009's twice and I really enjoyed how they felt casually. I was thinking about grabbing the HOF's just for ball. We'll see. I haven't been a big fan of Mayden-designed Jordan shoes for the most part. They just seem clunky. Didn't he go the 2009 and CP.2?

D'wayne Edwards though, I liked how he took the IPS from the XX and tried to take it a step further. The XXI and XX2 are so clean and smooth IMO. I loved the designs.

JB does need to get with the times as far as clothing. It's not 2003 anymore. The baggy look isn't poppin at all. The shirts are terrible for the most part. Putting out a shirt with the SJ's but having Concords on it? No thanks. It seems like when they design clothes and stuff that isn't their normal customer it is just horribly executed. The casual collection has been terrible for a while IMO. Who the hell buys those $400 leather jackets? The $140 track jackets? They're always getting marked down.

 

[mp23]

Yep he did both those shoes. That's thinking innovatively and such, with incorporating the IPS on a different level than in the XX. The clothing is garbage, they try to tie into things too much and its ridiculous. The prices are stupidly high, its not premium materials, a lot of it is not Dri-FIT, the fit is huge (granted, designed for basketball players, but still), and the colors are wack. The casual and elegant TWO3 collection was nice, I was sad to see that go.

 

[nomadicsole21]

Originally Posted by Crazy EBW

Isn't the Alpha with the full length bottom loaded Zoom a step in the direction you speak of Rock? I've seen tons of people hate on these and it seems that most of the people who do so are the ones who don't understand what it's made for. Once I can explain and get them to see the light, they love it. There's not a shoe i'd love to see get the Alpha treatment moreso than the III. Cement Alphas on the court? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!

The lack of new technology implemented into Team Based shoes is kind of boring. Throwing the Jumpman on a half-assed shoe isn't a good look at all. The Ol School III was the first "Team" Jordan shoe since the Pro Shake that I truly enjoyed. Don't ask me why I loved the Pro Shake, I just did!

IPS didn't do much for me either. The XX was OKAY IMO and the XXI was too stiff and the lack of flexibility was a big issue with me. The XX2 was awesome IMO. Lighter weight and the heel felt great for me. Never played in my XX3 or 2009's so can't really comment on them. The last JB game shoe that wowed me was the XIX. The double stacked heel was amazing the the flex/speed lacing wasn't that bad. The XIX SE was a huge hit FOR ME.

The CP 1 and 2 were pretty clunky IMO but the III is definitely a step in the lighter, quicker direction you speak of Par. It just FEELS better right out of the box especially on the flexibility part. Still haven't given these a run on the hardwood, but i'm looking forward to that soon enough.

I too agree that JB doesn't put out shoes made for slashers and light guards as they should. I'm really, really looking forward to the 2010 just because of how much Tinker has talked about lightweight performance and a step in a direction that i'm excited about for the first time in a long time. Can't wait to get those puppies on my feet next weekend.

This post=GREAT!

Totally agree with everything you've said.  Im a big guy and the XIXs are hands down my favorite Jordans ever to hoop in.  Very mobile and lightweight, and the lockdown with the strap was really nice.

I cannot wait for the 2010s either, people hate the design because they can't understand the shoe from a performance viewpoint.  I don't mind the window even though i think its tacky, but hopefully it lives up to my expectations on the court.

 

[duke4005]

Here is my perfect state of the industry comment: Every Marshalls in D/FW has the Jordan 2009, white/black, FSR for $50. Jordans, at Marshalls, in full size runs. I know we have seen alot of different, nice models come to Ross and Marshalls lately, even picked up a pair of Soldier III's there last month, and Rock knows about the Zoom BB TB's I got at Ross, but never Jordans, and never in FSR. And the sad part is, I passed on them still, and I used to get every numbered Jordan on release.

I loved the XXI, but it wasn't because of the IPS. Truth told, I never felt that system doing much. I actually loved the first colorway's looks, the bright white with red/black trim. The red laces set it off. Little touches like that really get me geeked, as an old-head. On the III, the plastic lace holes in the middle did it for me more than the elephant, becaus ethey looked functional. The IV, the webbing and the wings. The V, the tongue and clear sole. Little things like that, that had never been done before, were what Jordan's were known for. Now, it is extremely hard to come up with something we have never seen, mostly because of sites like this and some others. Not bad, just saying. The 2010 tried that with the window, like the 2009 tried it with the layered panels heel system. I still have to wonder if Retro's never happened, would the 2009 have sold out? I think we all would have been all over that shoe because of a lack of retro. So really, is it their own fault for retro'ing us to death so nothing new impresses us, or our fault for wanting the old models every year?

 

[crazy ebw]

I wish I could of found 2009's for $50. I'd be all over them.

I think that the style that most people prefer for everyday wear is the retros. The pricetag with the game shoe isn't a good look either. Not many people can shell out that much to go trash it on the court, and just as many don't wanna spend that much for casual wear. I think the main thing about the AJ game shoe these days is the lack of promotion and not seeing Michael on the court wearing them. XVII and XVIII's weren't that hot, but when you see pictures of MJ wearing them, they just pop.

I really think D Wade should just take of the Air Jordan game shoe line and let him basically be the on court guy that promotes his shoe. I don't know if it's JB that doesn't want people wearing them or what, but the only time we see players wearing the signature model is All Star weekend. I think the cheaper 16.5 and stuff like that can be used with the other part of the team, but DWade seems like a great candidate to take over the line and embody Jordan with the game shoe.

Look at the Alpha's that he and Qrich wore on Christmas. Everybody was like "yo, they really don't look that bad" but then they stop wearing them and people forget about them. I think JB needs to pay more attention to what the players wear on their feet. Everybody and their mother is wearing 12's right now. 12's are done for retro, bring out something new to build the hype. If you can't even sell a shoe to a shoehead, how the hell are you going to sell it to a general consumer?

 

[flintgrey]

Originally Posted by RockDeep

If you introduce new tech, that means losing profit margin....

I do think they are handcuffing themselves by not branching out with more tech like Nike.. not new Tech that isn't going to stick around.

QFT

Originally Posted by Crazy EBW

I'veonly wore my 2009's twice and I really enjoyed how they felt casually.I was thinking about grabbing the HOF's just for ball. We'll see. Ihaven't been a big fan of Mayden-designed Jordan shoes for the mostpart. They just seem clunky. Didn't he go the 2009 and CP.2?

Shoe is perfect except for one glaring thing - the heel tab digs into your heel.  Not rub against....DIGS.  I can only wear mine casually now - and they ain't pretty....lol

Originally Posted by Crazy EBW

JB does need to get with the times as far as clothing. It's not 2003anymore. The baggy look isn't poppin at all. The shirts are terriblefor the most part. Putting out a shirt with the SJ's but havingConcords on it? No thanks. It seems like when they design clothes andstuff that isn't their normal customer it is just horribly executed.The casual collection has been terrible for a while IMO. Who the hellbuys those $400 leather jackets? The $140 track jackets? They're alwaysgetting marked down.

Amen.  I haven't bought a Jordan tee in almost ten years.

Originally Posted by Crazy EBW

The Ol School III was the first "Team" Jordan shoe since the Pro Shake that I truly enjoyed.

Surprisingly, the first two models were good too.  I balled the heck outta the Ol Skool 1's....

The OS1 offered no new technology but was hella comfortable.  I got the second pair for $40....not bad for a pair to torture on the court.

 

[crazy ebw]

One of my buddies swears by the OS1. I'm not a fan of the 5/8 version that's out right now so I might wait until the OS4 drops. I usually don't mess with team Jordans, but if the price is right, why not?

So after the AS game is Dwade going to wear the 2010 primarily for the rest of the season? I was just watching the kIxandthecity stock room and maze said that so i'm not sure if I missed that or what.

 

[sole investigator]

Originally Posted by Crazy EBW

I really think D Wade should just take of the Air Jordan game shoe line and let him basically be the on court guy that promotes his shoe. I don't know if it's JB that doesn't want people wearing them or what, but the only time we see players wearing the signature model is All Star weekend. I think the cheaper 16.5 and stuff like that can be used with the other part of the team, but DWade seems like a great candidate to take over the line and embody Jordan with the game shoe.
 

Wade will wear the 010's this year, but it's not his signature line... it's Jordan's.


And as far as the baggy Jordan clothes go, the sizing of the t-shirts has been changed and fit truer to size now. But, that can't be said for their jackets, shorts, sweats, etc.

 

[crazy ebw]

Obviously it's Jordan's brand. Did you not read everything I read? Jordan NEEDS somebody to carry the line since Jordan isn't doing it anymore night in and night out. The Air Jordan needs more exposure if they want to keep people excited about it.

 

[23fan]

thank you to the guru's for a good perspective

great thread.

 

[sole investigator]

Crazy EBW, I understand what you're saying about Jordan needing someone to wear the shoe, but it seems like they want to keep it special with only a few players wearing it.


When you say that Wade should "just take of the Air Jordan game shoe line and let him basically be the on court guy that promotes his shoe", it sounds like you're saying the Air Jordan should be his unoffical shoe... but wouldn't you think they would give him his own signature line then?

 

[crazy ebw]

Yeah, just let Wade take over the number line. Keeping it special doesn't mean crap to anyone but Jordan and the people at JB. General people don't care about the stuff we do. JB doesn't need it to happen that way, but the way that the shoe is marketed needs to be changed. The 2009 had no hype behind it. The ad campaign was forgettable at best. The colorways were few and far between, and we didn't get a lowtop version. Just do something to get people excited again is all i'm saying.

If Jordan isn't going to let any players wear the game shoe and only show Ads during all star weekend, what is supposed to get people excited about the game shoe?

 

[sole investigator]

I agree with you that they need some excitement behind the flagship shoe, but ultimately Michael does has a say in those macro decisions... like if the Air Jordan would become Wade's "unofficial" signature shoe.

 

[mister friendly]

So Michael Jordan doesnt really let sponsored players wear the actual current signature shoe on the court(XX3,2009)?????

I couldve swear Chris Paul and Ray Allen wore the XX3

 

[jmizzo]

^^^ i think that JB makes the players wear the lame team shoes to get some "air" time for them and potentially more sales....they must think the signature line will sell itself....

Jordan brand is so 1990s to me.....New light technologies are the newest "trend"..... Haven't liked a Jordan Signature shoe since the XIX SEs....

IMO....Hyperdunks ruled 2008, Kobe IVs ruled 2009.....2010 is wide open so far....

 

[crazy ebw]

That's the thing about JB that I think is backward. The cheaper shoes like the "team" shoes can sell themselves at a decent pricepoint. The higher end shoes are the ones that need the most promotion to build buzz about them. Seeing on court pics of the XX3's and 2009's are amazing from the AS Game. How many if any other times did those guys wear them in regular season games?

Side note: I can't wait to see guys rocking PE IX's again.

 

[flintgrey]

Originally Posted by jmizzo

IMO....Hyperdunks ruled 2008, Kobe IVs ruled 2009.....2010 is wide open so far....

It would be a longshot, but if Kevin Durant keeps it up, maybe it could be the KD2. 

His Thunder are on a roll and could be a threat in the playoffs.  Half his team rocks KD2s.  Plus the pricepoint is good ($85) in this economy.

 

[crazy ebw]

I neeeeed KD2's.

 

[crazy ebw]

This thread is dying, fast.

I'm really feeling these Adidas Supernatural and the Li-Ning sneakers. Am I going crazy? The Commander and the BD Doom are on my to buy list asap. A good design is a good design, and these are crack from what i've been hearing. Anybody tried these?

 

[3onpar5]

What this thread needs is some other people to jump in with their opinions on how they would change/fix/energize the industry. Unfortunately mostly all people want to do on here is moan and complain that retro Jordans dont have the NIKE Air on the back or to look at new shoes that are posted and put

. Noobody wants to discuss anymore. 1,000

and 1,000

= 2,000 posts and "credibility" on this board.

Yeah Im calling people out. Lets see what ya got. Lets keep this DISCUSSION going, quit going into the Kobe thread and asking the same question 20 times about availability of the Dark Knights. Lets talk. If not...this thread was great while it lasted. For those that spoke up...thanks, we will do it again sometime.


Crazy, didnt Ron Artest say something like his Li-Nings are like wearing concrete? Not blasting just not sure if I heard it right.

 

[duke4005]

Phil Jackson said Ron's Peak's were like concrete boots.

 

[rockdeep]

EL asked me a question in the Lebron thread and it probably could have been best suited for this thread.. but to help keep things going I figured why not.. not many commented on it there.

RockDeep wrote:

---

emmanuelabor wrote:

---

Rock (or anybody that may know)

not sure if you know, but I'll ask anyway


who's idea was it to give Bron 2 diff shoes a season? Do the people in power at Nike think this move has been successful? I mean I get Team Jordans, and take down versions of shoes, but we really didnt see MJ in Team J's or Kobe in the take down versions of his shoes...so why Lebron? I remember they were gonna do something similar with Kobe with the ZKII's I believe, but that didnt seem to ever pan out, so I dont see why theyre still running with it with the Soldiers and now PS shoe. AND he gets lows (alomost forgot about that) So many of his shoes go to discount/outlets, why do they continue to saturate the market? Its like theyre setting his shoes up for failure(imo)

EL Im not sure WHO decided, but I can tell you for sure Brons Contract has ALOT to do with it.  Having several options under his name means that money can be attributed to the investment on his contract.  Marketing very well may have come up with the concept of the soldier for his Playoffs shoe.  I long ago thought it was not such a good idea and even talked to a Higher Head who is Lebrons go to person at Nike and he didn't think it was the greatest idea either.
Only because, if Lebron EVER won a Chip and it WASN"T playing in his Signature shoe.. that Team Shoe would THEN become his Signature by default thus killing the need for his initial Signature line.   BUT

Let me throw the flip side argument up to support Marketing. Not my idea..not anything I agree with.. but I see the marketing sense behind it.  In football some players practice with heavier Cleats and wear lighter one's in a game.  In Basketball some players practice with weights on their ankles thus trying to improve game speed once they are without them.

For the concept of the Lebron Sig vs the Soldier Team Line.  Marketing states Lebron moves to a shoe which is smaller cut and lighter so he can move faster for the playoffs.  For the Bron IV.. this makes TONS of sense.. but for other kicks after.. you are already touting its the lightest Bron yet.. so your giving him an even lighter kick for the playoffs?   It could be seen either way I suppose.

My thoughts are Bug Yungin is 6'8 260+  He doesn't really need a light light shoe with not alot to it. In fact I would argue a dude with his frame style of play and force ON his shoes need a bit more stability and something EXTRA to keep that thing intact.  Just my thoughts.  Bron wears a different pair every game just about.. so them having to be durable enough to last more than a few games is unneeded.

I do think Nike was smart in seeing Bron needing to go back to Zoom where he must be more comfortable.  Petrie said it himself they are still working to improve the ride on the VIII... so it says they weren't happy completely with the VIIs overall performance.. but no one can tell me this Design doesn't stand out.. even with Amare's 360 Air type of Unit and The Hyper Strands borrowed DNA.. The Design is tight and WILL be Classic.

I just think the line needs to treat this design better with astounding colorways.  The Design Director and the Creative Design Director need to chance the line moreso for Petrie and let his ideas ALL see retail.  What can they lose?  The VI came in HOW many colors...and even more that never saw the light of day?

I would repeat this.  HoH (House of Hoops) should NEVER... EVER see a day where ANY shoe in that store is on discount. Every demo and each Gender should be keeping it hard in EVERY city to keep ANYTHING on the shelves.  ESPECIALLY when it comes to Kobe & Lebron.  The two Faces of Nike Basketball.  Yes TWO FACES.  I am a Bron dude thru and thru.. but yeah.. Kobe is now leading the way with a Low Cut Basketball Performance shoe.

I mean they are putting colors galore out.  If some Kobe folks dont like it.. so what... Others will.  If they miss on a few.. so what.. they have a gillion other colors.  Last year altho the design of the VI wasn't that great.. the Releases sold time after Time.. and they didn't even have a HWC colorway in Blue/Orange OR a Dunkman colorway save for the greatness BP provided.

Kobe's kicks are on NIKEID.  DAMN.  His kicks pricepoint isn't that far off from Brons and they are doing well just from Niketalk folks alone.. So why NOT chance Brons line a tad more than they have to this point on the VII?

Who knows.  I think they finally have the resurgence in design THEY and everyone else was waiting on and they arent doing what they can to take advantage.  Why not.. UA and all others have slacked off and you are going to lock Bron up again.  We just sit and we wait.  If I were the heads at Nike.. I would stop holding back on whats to release and in these recessional times..I'd go ahead and tout months ahead which Colorways will release when so EVERYONE can plan to buy it up upon release.

But thats just me.  Sorry EL.. what did you ask?

 

[crazy ebw]

Originally Posted by 3onPar5

What this thread needs is some other people to jump in with their opinions on how they would change/fix/energize the industry. Unfortunately mostly all people want to do on here is moan and complain that retro Jordans dont have the NIKE Air on the back or to look at new shoes that are posted and put

. Noobody wants to discuss anymore. 1,000

and 1,000

= 2,000 posts and "credibility" on this board.

Yeah Im calling people out. Lets see what ya got. Lets keep this DISCUSSION going, quit going into the Kobe thread and asking the same question 20 times about availability of the Dark Knights. Lets talk. If not...this thread was great while it lasted. For those that spoke up...thanks, we will do it again sometime.


Crazy, didnt Ron Artest say something like his Li-Nings are like wearing concrete? Not blasting just not sure if I heard it right.

Yeah, Phil Jackson said the Peak's that Artest has been wearing caused his plantar fascisites(whatever..) because they were like concrete boots.

I thought that Li-Ning was the brand from China that is well established and has a large following over there for performance based shoes. That's why i'm interested in them. As loyal as I am to Nike, i'm VERY interested when other brands try to put out performance products.

I'm not very familiar with the feet you wear stuff that Adidas used, anybody got more info?

Rock, I can't even get into that LeBron post yet.

 

[duke4005]

Crazy, I always thought the same thing. Analogy - Li-Ning is their Nike, I believe, and Peak is like a Payless, probably a little higher thought of. Peak seems like the knock-off brand.

And as far as Peak causing plantar fasciitis, I only wear Nike and adidas, and I just got over this after 2 years. Sorry, Phil.

 

[crazy ebw]

I'm really looking forward to trying some of the BD Doom's out. I love the design. The interview with Eric Miller on CounterKicks is dope.