|| LocK Dis Up ||

[moonman818]

can someone post the pic of simmons wearing the magic johnson jersey? can't seem to find it anywhere on the web

[emoji]128520[/emoji]

 

[tupac003]

Nets win tonight but Suns lose another one. We need an L tomorrow.

 

[freeze]

Lets get ben simmons.

 

[essential1]

Nobody actually does.

Just a light 36 & 14 for Ben Simmons today we should still take Ingram over him though if we get the #1 pick.

Ingram had 25 & 9 today. Half his shots were 3 pointers, shot 50% for the game.

Again, you don't understand a few caveats..

1. He's not very good defensively.
2. He has no jump shot.
3. He does not shoot 3's / can't shoot 3s.
4. You have 4 guys you like going forward that are on this team (Russell, Clarkson, Randle & Nance) his game fits with none of them.


He's a great player all the same, and I've never even denied that, and if he gets # 1, he deserved it.

But doesn't mistake that Ingram is a better fit in every way with the guys we want to have for the next 10 years.

 

[MVP]

Bump all that. Kid has superstar written all over him even with the deficiencies. Ppl that don't fit can be moved or put on the bench. I see no reason why he can't play with Russell and Nance together. He's LeBron-esque. You want Clarkson to be a 6th man anyway. So the only issue is Randle and as good as he's looked at times this kid is on another level.

 

[mj 23]

Move Randle if we are able to draft Simmons. Sign Whiteside and Horford this summer.

D'lo
Lou (for now)
Ben Simmons
Al Horford
Hassan Whiteside

Showtime Byke!!!

 

[essential1]

Bump all that. Kid has superstar written all over him even with the deficiencies. Ppl that don't fit can be moved or put on the bench. I see no reason why he can't play with Russell and Nance together. He's LeBron-esque. You want Clarkson to be a 6th man anyway. So the only issue is Randle and as good as he's looked at times this kid is on another level.

If the Lakers draft him, I'll be fine with it. I'll trust their choice regarding drafting measures because they know what they've been doing. They've earned that right.

Here's my problem.....

Nance won't be able to play with him. Here's why, if you put Nance at the 5, Simmons at the 4. There's zero interior presence on the court. This isn't Draymond Green who can guard all 5 positions. Easy points all day for the other team. It's like Jahlil Okafor, For any points he scores, he gives back with **** defense. Nance has tools to be a good defender, and showed being a solid defender in college, but he is in no way a good enough defender to be your rim protector. For a league that has gone small, you still need someone to protect the rim at worst, at best you need a team wide effort to keep teams away from the rim as much as possible. With what we know, that isn't happening.

If you put Nance at the 4, and Simmons at the 3. You have one of the worst spaced lineups in history. They are now both inside the 3 point line along with whoever is playing the 5, which congests it for Russell if Russ has the ball. If Simmons has the ball, you have Nance & whoever is at the 5 inside. Which will hurt Simmons ability to get into the lane.

Russell needs the ball in his hands to be effective, Clarkson needs to have the ball in his hands to be effective, Randle needs the ball in his hands to be effective... Simmons more than those 3 absolutely needs the ball in his hands to be effective. All of them need and want the ball in their hands. I'll take Russell's court vision and passing ability over Simmons. But with Simmons, you make Russell, a spot up off ball guard essentially even more. Way more than he needs to be. And if you put Russell on the floor, and he's handling the ball, what is Simmons going to be doing? He ain't catching and shooting. You'll have to hope on a P&R he is really good at it as the screen man, but the fact that he has no shot, I can sag off Simmons, and take away him rolling to the basket.

Clarkson should be a 6th man, yes, because when he can handle the ball he's a better player.. But he's still going to have to play significant minutes with Russell, and Simmons & Randle. Maybe Clarkson could fit, IF he develops even more as a shooter. Right now, he's a good shooter at least for this season. But taking it out of his hands even more is not a smart move. Especially considered that if this is Clarkson's ceiling as a shooter, he wouldn't be a great fit when he's playing with Russell & Simmons.

Randle & Simmons fit in no way at all. I think that's clear.



The actual problem I have with this debate right now...... Is that you don't seem to comprehend that fit does matter in the NBA. This is not the NFL. It's not something that you can disregard, and say if I put these guys together due to their talent, they'll win easily. The fact that you literally just said you'd be willing to trade everyone else for placating Simmons is amazing to me as well. Besides the fact that you won't get a great return for any of these 3 (someone made a great analogy of draft picks to cars which works well), you would be building all over again. With 1 young guy instead.

My other problem and actually my biggest problem with this whole thing now.. Is the fact that you don't even find a little bit of concern with the fact that he can't shoot. Not even a little bit. I'd be fine with him being a bad shooter, I'd be fine with that. He's not even that. He's not a shooter at all. You know why Odom was effective as point forward? Besides the intangibles, he could shoot the ball. You know why LeBron is a good point forward, because he can shoot the ball. And when he won the titles, was when he became an elite shooter for a few years. LSU has had a significantly easy schedule, their strength of schedule is 192 right now. The SEC isn't the NBA. Players are smarter, faster, and immensely better. He isn't just going to have his way without being able to shoot. Those scouting reports will come out, and would be quick to figure out what to do for him. And you may not be able to stop him, but you can slow him down a lot.

So while I think he'll be good. Just like I think Brandon Ingram will be... It isn't as cut and dry as you make it seem. Sure, Ben Simmons right now is the best player in the country. But when you put their games side by side. Brandon Ingram is much closer than you think. I'll take the guy with the higher floor who has a more well rounded game, and more all around effort and fits not only what the NBA is doing, but also fits with what your franchise is doing.And that's not even saying Ingram doesn't have a good ceiling. Because he does. He isn't a high floor, low ceiling. He has a high ceiling as well.


That's why I'm saying what I'm saying... And again, we're still arguing the # 1 & # 2 draft picks here.

 

[Lizakers]

Holy mother of long posts

 

[darthska]

That?

CP has written disclaimers to his responses that were longer than that.

 

[MVP]

Lebron was able to shoot when he came into the league? I'm pretty sure 85-90% of him was driving to the basket similar to how he is now. He developed a jumper that was reliable at times just as Simmons can and could alleviate a lot of your fit issues. I think he can shoot if needed he just doesn't have to at this point b/c he's unstoppable in other areas (driving, finishing, and getting to the free throw line). Also I never said trade everyone. If Randle and/or Nance have to be moved because they don't fit, so be it. This kid is that good. If we get any kind of FA help they're eventually going to have to be changes anyway. Not enough minutes to go around.

You want to preach Russell can be this and that when at this point last year he was nowhere near a top prospect yet Simmons who clearly is the best player in the country can't improve on his deficiencies as a 19 yr old?

I'm not worried though, Mitch isn't stupid, he won't pick a Dukeie number 1 anyway.

 

[sb]

kobe gets flack for him chuckin 3s up but lebae has the worst 3pt shooting percentage in the league

 

[ill 949]

Not gonna tell you guys to stop debating. But I personally can't get myself even in that scouting mode 5 months before we find out if we gonna even have a pick

 

[MVP]

And it's not like I'm saying Ingram is a bad player on anything, kid will be really good as well especially once he puts on some weight. But the physicality part of the game is going to be just as big of a challenge for him as Ben's lack of shooting to start out.

And as far as the time, that's all I care about, team is atrocious to watch every time they play save a few moments, midas well fantaxize about what could be.

Ideally I want to see Russell, SG, Batum, Simmons and Whiteside next season.

 

[CP1708]

That?

CP has written disclaimers to his responses that were longer than that.

Legit yelled.

 

[CP1708]

Ben or Ingram, really nice problem to have. I'll gladly accept either of them.

No need to knock one down to praise the other. Both will likely be great players in the future.

 

[licensed to ball]

That?

CP has written disclaimers to his responses that were longer than that.

This.

Both E and CP have had "warm-up" stretching-the-fingers posts to long discussions that were longer than that

 

[sea manup]

talking about picking 1-2nd when we are on a 2 game win streak 

 

[essential1]

talking about picking 1-2nd when we are on a 2 game win streak 

And one of the two of us thinks we are losing the pick.

 

[sea manup]

at the end of the day its about playing the percentages 

as it is with all things in life 

 

[had pants]

This.

Both E and CP have had "warm-up" stretching-the-fingers posts to long discussions that were longer than that

 

[ValarMorghulis]

Nobody actually does.

Just a light 36 & 14 for Ben Simmons today we should still take Ingram over him though if we get the #1 pick.

Ingram had 25 & 9 today. Half his shots were 3 pointers, shot 50% for the game.

Again, you don't understand a few caveats..

1. He's not very good defensively.
2. He has no jump shot.
3. He does not shoot 3's / can't shoot 3s.
4. You have 4 guys you like going forward that are on this team (Russell, Clarkson, Randle & Nance) his game fits with none of them.


He's a great player all the same, and I've never even denied that, and if he gets # 1, he deserved it.

But doesn't mistake that Ingram is a better fit in every way with the guys we want to have for the next 10 years.

I agree with 90% of this. Ingram is the guy that fits with EVERYONE going forward.

Now, to say Simmons doesn't fit with Russell and Nance is not accurate imo

Nance does fit, he's Simmons backup. A competent backup that can step in and do everything good nothing great is underrated

If you take Simmons and play him at the 3 with Nance you give Russell a break or take him from ball handling responsibilities in short bursts.... Which brings me to how he fits with Russell. D'Lo can be a knockdown stand still shooter, is this is best skill, no but when you have someone like Simmons you adjust to put him in his natural best position and let Russell "rest" on a wing.

Im CERTAIN Simmons will spend 3 months in the draft process working and re-working his jumper. Plenty of guys did it. His handlers will know that.


Now clarkson and Randle imo will need to go if we commit to Simmons. We can package them together or trade them seperately but we would desperately need an athletic big that can defend the rim. We could also use them to get a knockdown SG i.e. Korver

 

[jsindaa]

I think people are seriously under estimating the issue of Ben's shooting woes. There's a difference between being bad and where he is. Bron was NEVER the non shooter that Ben is. The problem isn't that shooting can't improve it's where it has to improve from. There's no reason whatsoever to believe at the current moment that Ben will ever improve beyond a bad shooter considering he's horrific now

 

[pmatic]

Lou Williams for Jarrett Jack and a protected second rounder now!

 

[MVP]

How may jumpers is he taking a game right now 3-5? Bron could not shoot when he came in, he had to rework his entire shot. We've seen dudes most notably Blake Griffin recently do the same.

Jack out for the Nets for the rest of the year

 

[sb]

This.

Both E and CP have had "warm-up" stretching-the-fingers posts to long discussions that were longer than that