Marcus Jordan:NO ONE should EVER com par kobe Bryant to my dad

[deuce king]

yea shaq was the man during that run but kobe stepped up huge at times in each of those title runs and put up some real huge numbers during the last 2 titles of the 3 peat.
 
Nobody is or should be disputing the fact that Kobe stepped up huge at times, however as you clearly pointed in your statement Shaq was the man during that run.  That's all that really needs to be said.  Shaq was the first option, and Kobe was the second option.

deuce he right my dude.
you downplayin Kobe a lil too much. I mean Jordan is Jordan, but Kobe and the comparison is up there. Ill also add, shaq was callin Kobe the best in the world during that time...
Nah I'm not downplaying Kobe at all.  As I have said numerous times before Kobe is one of the greatest players of all-time and definitely the best player in the league right now.  However, during his first 3 championships he wasn't the main man, and that's the point that I think most folks are missing in here, or choosing to miss.  When I say Kobe was Robin, I'm not trying to imply that Kobe was a bum or anything of the sort.  Me saying Kobe was Robin is like me saying Kobe was the Vice President and Shaq was the President.  Think about it like this, if anything happens in the US today be it good or bad, we all look at President Obama, nobody thinks about Vice President Biden.  Same rules apply to the Lakers back then, for anything good or great that those Laker teams achieved the credit goes to Shaq, that's just how it is.

 

[tupac003]

Think about it like this, if anything happens in the US today be it good or bad, we all look at President Obama, nobody thinks about Vice President Biden.  Same rules apply to the Lakers back then, for anything good or great that those Laker teams achieved the credit goes to Shaq, that's just how it is.

So everything good was because of shaq? I don't believe that at all. Who threw the lob pass to Shaq to beat the blazers? Kobe. Who hit a last second 3 to beat the Kings? Horry I mean I could go on and on.

When Shaq would get in foul trouble we would turn to Kobe. When Kobe was hurt or in foul trouble himself we would go to Shaq. When they were both on the court Shaq got Kobe wide open shots and Kobe would drive to the lane, dish and get him dunks. They needed each other plain and simple. You have to give both of them credit for the success of the team.

Shaq didn't do everything and to try to say that is beyond stupid. That may be how it is in your mind but Shaq & Kobe were the main cogs period.

 

[jbone2308]

This "main man" BS is why we won't see any two superstars play on the same team.

They don't want the "Kobe" treatment and every great player from this point on will get the critical treatment Kobe does right now.

Well...except the "Queen" as all his minions will use his "regular season" numbers to prove how great he is because nothing is happening in the playoffs.

60+ wins lose in the playoffs but somehow it's the others fault and none of it is his.

 

[deuce king]

Shaq didn't do everything and to try to say that is beyond stupid.
Nobody is saying Shaq did everything, however Shaq was the main guy, and Kobe was second in command.  That's not an opinion, that's a fact.  If you or any other Laker/Kobe fans doesn't understand that then that's too bad.  Kobe was the little brother and Shaq was the big brother........which eventually lead to a sibling rivalry.

 

[tupac003]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

Shaq didn't do everything and to try to say that is beyond stupid.

Nobody is saying Shaq did everything, however Shaq was the main guy, and Kobe was second in command.  That's not an opinion, that's a fact.  If you or any other Laker/Kobe fans doesn't understand that then that's too bad.  Kobe was the little brother and Shaq was the big brother........which eventually lead to a sibling rivalry.

  
It's not fact. Its your opioion that you keep trying to pass off as a fact. Fact is if one didn't have the other the Lakers don't 3 peat. Now that's a fact.

 

[Betonblck]

Originally Posted by tupac003

Originally Posted by Deuce King

Shaq didn't do everything and to try to say that is beyond stupid.

Nobody is saying Shaq did everything, however Shaq was the main guy, and Kobe was second in command.  That's not an opinion, that's a fact.  If you or any other Laker/Kobe fans doesn't understand that then that's too bad.  Kobe was the little brother and Shaq was the big brother........which eventually lead to a sibling rivalry.

  

It's not fact. Its your opioion that you keep trying to pass off as a fact. Fact is if one didn't have the other the Lakers don't 3 peat. Now that's a fact.
Fact is that you could have inserted any top 10 shooting guard and Shaq would have won championships.  Wade proved that. 

  

 

[sundoobie]

Originally Posted by cguy610

Originally Posted by tupac003

Originally Posted by Deuce King

Shaq didn't do everything and to try to say that is beyond stupid.

Nobody is saying Shaq did everything, however Shaq was the main guy, and Kobe was second in command.  That's not an opinion, that's a fact.  If you or any other Laker/Kobe fans doesn't understand that then that's too bad.  Kobe was the little brother and Shaq was the big brother........which eventually lead to a sibling rivalry.

  

It's not fact. Its your opioion that you keep trying to pass off as a fact. Fact is if one didn't have the other the Lakers don't 3 peat. Now that's a fact.

Fact is that you could have inserted any top 10 shooting guard and Shaq would have won championships.  Wade proved that. 

  
Fact is that you could have inserted any top 10 Center and Kobe would have won championships.  Gasol proved that.

 

[tupac003]

Originally Posted by cguy610

Originally Posted by tupac003

Originally Posted by Deuce King

Shaq didn't do everything and to try to say that is beyond stupid.

Nobody is saying Shaq did everything, however Shaq was the main guy, and Kobe was second in command.  That's not an opinion, that's a fact.  If you or any other Laker/Kobe fans doesn't understand that then that's too bad.  Kobe was the little brother and Shaq was the big brother........which eventually lead to a sibling rivalry.

  

It's not fact. Its your opioion that you keep trying to pass off as a fact. Fact is if one didn't have the other the Lakers don't 3 peat. Now that's a fact.

Fact is that you could have inserted any top 10 shooting guard and Shaq would have won championships.  Wade proved that. 

  


What does that prove? Shaq was on the decline when he got that title with Wade and the stats prove that. I could see if Shaq was putting up the same numbers from 2000-2002 in that title run with the heat but he wasn't. He was a shell of himself. Wade won that title. Wade was the MVP.

 

[deuce king]

Originally Posted by tupac003

Originally Posted by Deuce King

Shaq didn't do everything and to try to say that is beyond stupid.

Nobody is saying Shaq did everything, however Shaq was the main guy, and Kobe was second in command.  That's not an opinion, that's a fact.  If you or any other Laker/Kobe fans doesn't understand that then that's too bad.  Kobe was the little brother and Shaq was the big brother........which eventually lead to a sibling rivalry.

  

It's not fact. Its your opioion that you keep trying to pass off as a fact. Fact is if one didn't have the other the Lakers don't 3 peat. Now that's a fact.


Yeah sure, so your trying to tell me a regular season MVP and a 3-time Finals MVP all while being the most dominant player in the league at the time wasn't the main guy............

.  Nice try champ, you Kobe fans are funny.

 Wade won that title. Wade was the MVP.


See how you Kobe fans end up digging your own grave.  I'm glad you made this point above champ about Wade winning the title for that team, thus him being the MVP.  That's exactly what I and a few others on here have been trying to tell you about Shaq bringing those titles to the Lakers and not Robin back then. 

 

[MVP]

@ Deuce, what you have sir is an opinion, not fact.

The only time Shaq was 'clearly' Batman and Kobe, Robin, since you seem hell bent on that analogy would be the 2001 season and subsequent playoff run. But even then he had to save the Lakers against Indy in Game 4 when Shaquille fouled out.

In the 2001 and 2002 seasons that wasn't the case. Just look at the difference in production.

Kobe's Stats from 00, 01, and 02

YearTeamGGSMPGFG%3P%FT%OFFDEFRPGAPGSPGBPGTOPFPPG
99-00LAL666238.20.4680.3190.8211.64.76.34.91.60.92.763.3322.5
00-01LAL686841.00.4640.3050.8531.54.35.95.01.70.63.243.2628.5
01-02LAL808038.30.4690.2500.8291.44.15.55.51.50.42.792.8525.2

Playoffs 00, 01, and 02

99-00LAL222239.00.4420.3440.7541.23.34.54.41.41.42.504.0521.1
00-01LAL161643.40.4690.3240.8211.85.47.36.11.60.83.193.3129.4
01-02LAL191943.80.4340.3790.7591.54.45.84.61.40.92.843.4226.6

Shaq's Stats from 00, 01, and 02

YearTeamGGSMPGFG%3P%FT%OFFDEFRPGAPGSPGBPGTOPFPPG

99-00LAL797940.00.5740.0000.5244.39.413.63.80.53.02.823.2329.7
00-01LAL747439.50.5720.0000.5133.98.812.73.70.62.82.953.4628.7
01-02LAL676636.10.5790.0000.5553.57.210.73.00.62.02.552.9727.2

Playoff Stats from 00, 01, and 02

99-00LAL232343.50.5660.0000.4565.210.315.43.10.62.42.432.9130.7
00-01LAL161642.30.5550.0000.5255.79.815.43.20.42.43.563.4430.4
01-02LAL191940.80.5290.0000.6493.59.112.62.80.52.53.263.2628.5

And those are even with Shaq's going for 30 and 15 almost every game in those Finals.

That looks more like of a 1a and 1b thing from 01 and 02 years than any duo in history. Kinda like some people on here have an opinion of Kobe and Bron being 1a and 1b in terms of the league, well Shaq and Kobe were that except on the same team, Shaq got those Finals MVPs because he put up historic numbers in the Finals, but if you don't think Kobe was JUST AS important in those runs getting LA there and being the go to guy late in games, then you just didn't watch the 1st 3 peat run by these guys.

 

[kvsm23vs24]

Kobe was having way higher numbers then when Shaq won with heat champ. Wade was carrying that team in every forth quarter and Shaq just got in the way champ. NIce try trying to compare an aging Shaq that was winning off of Wade, Kobe was actually putting the team on his back during some games. I do agree that SHaq was the main guy, but Kobe was way closer than people make it seem to be, champ.

 

[tupac003]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

tupac003 wrote:

---

Originally Posted by Deuce King

Shaq didn't do everything and to try to say that is beyond stupid.

Nobody is saying Shaq did everything, however Shaq was the main guy, and Kobe was second in command.  That's not an opinion, that's a fact.  If you or any other Laker/Kobe fans doesn't understand that then that's too bad.  Kobe was the little brother and Shaq was the big brother........which eventually lead to a sibling rivalry.

  

It's not fact. Its your opioion that you keep trying to pass off as a fact. Fact is if one didn't have the other the Lakers don't 3 peat. Now that's a fact.


Yeah sure, so your trying to tell me a regular season MVP and a 3-time Finals MVP all while being the most dominant player in the league at the time wasn't the main guy............

.  Nice try champ, you Kobe fans are funny.

 Wade won that title. Wade was the MVP.


See how you Kobe fans end up digging your own grave.  I'm glad you made this point above champ about Wade winning the title for that team, thus him being the MVP.  That's exactly what I and a few others on here have been trying to tell you about Shaq bringing those titles to the Lakers and not Robin back then. 
First off I am far from a Kobe fan. I have and will always be a Laker fan first. But I always get invovled in these convos because I find them so stupid. Those 2 needed each other. When one was down on his game the other stepped up and vise versa. But let's look at some things.

As far as the 2000 championship goes, Shaq was a beast. He ran this team and IMO he was the first option so I won't fight that one.

But the 2000-2001 Championship Shaq averages 30.4 points while Kobe averaged 29.4...only one point off. Yeah Shaq won the finals MVP but a case could have been made for Kobe.

2001-2002 chip. Shaq Averages 28.4 Kobe 26.4. 2 points off. Shaq of course won the finals MVP by killing the nets super soft center. LOL

When Shaq won that title with the Heat he averaged 18.4 while Wade Averaged 27.4 points.....ummm we want to talk about Robin? Come on man.

In the 1999-2000 run Shaq was the main option and I won't try to deny that but your telling me that during those 2 runs the difference at the most was 2 ppg but Kobe was Robin? Please. They were both vital and were both main options. So what I am trying to tell you is Shaq and Kobe brought those titles to LA. 






  

 

[jthagreat]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

yea shaq was the man during that run but kobe stepped up huge at times in each of those title runs and put up some real huge numbers during the last 2 titles of the 3 peat.

 
Nobody is or should be disputing the fact that Kobe stepped up huge at times, however as you clearly pointed in your statement Shaq was the man during that run.  That's all that really needs to be said.  Shaq was the first option, and Kobe was the second option.

deuce he right my dude.
you downplayin Kobe a lil too much. I mean Jordan is Jordan, but Kobe and the comparison is up there. Ill also add, shaq was callin Kobe the best in the world during that time...
Nah I'm not downplaying Kobe at all.  As I have said numerous times before Kobe is one of the greatest players of all-time and definitely the best player in the league right now.  However, during his first 3 championships he wasn't the main man, and that's the point that I think most folks are missing in here, or choosing to miss.  When I say Kobe was Robin, I'm not trying to imply that Kobe was a bum or anything of the sort.  Me saying Kobe was Robin is like me saying Kobe was the Vice President and Shaq was the President.  Think about it like this, if anything happens in the US today be it good or bad, we all look at President Obama, nobody thinks about Vice President Biden.  Same rules apply to the Lakers back then, for anything good or great that those Laker teams achieved the credit goes to Shaq, that's just how it is.

i agreed (with your analogy till there) Kobe got a lot of blame for airballin in those playoffs against Utah. and he was like a rookie. but if we have to use "batman and robin" shaq is batman.

edit: someone post the stats when THEY loss to the Pistons. i think that would be interesting to coompare.
    

 

[deuce king]

The only time Shaq was 'clearly' Batman and Kobe, Robin, since you seem hell bent on that analogy would be the 2001 season and subsequent playoff run. But even then he had to save the Lakers against Indy in Game 4 when Shaquille fouled out.

Yeah, I remember that game, I pointed that out earlier in this thread.  Kobe clearly took over that game and helped the Lakers beat Indy that series.  Let's not get it twisted though, the main focus for any and all teams against the Lakers back then was Shaq, then Kobe. 

First off I am far from a Kobe fan.
Glad to hear it champ, we need more like you around these parts

.

When one was down on his game the other stepped up and vise versa
I agree.

In the 1999-2000 run Shaq was the main option and I won't try to deny that but your telling me that during those 2 runs the difference at the most was 2 ppg but Kobe was Robin


Whether he averaged 2 points less than Shaq or 20 points less than Shaq, at the end of the day Shaq was the main threat for all opposing teams.  Kobe put up good numbers and have great game during that timeframe, and I'm not trying to take that away from him.  Teams would double down on Shaq and he would kick it out to Kobe for the perimeter game or have Kobe drive the lane as he use to do alot back then and score his points that way. 

but if we have to use "batman and robin" shaq is batman.


My man.

 

[sundoobie]

Notice this guy does a 360 now that facts are presented...

Yeah, I remember that game, I pointed that out earlier in this thread.  Kobe clearly took over that game and helped the Lakers beat Indy that series.

When he said this before...

Actually champ, you're the person with the moot point seeing as how you and a few others individuals on here are trying to upgrade Kobe's role or significance for his first 3 rings. 
cough cough HYPOCRITE cough cough

 

[hannsum]

HAHAHAH.

it's so funny when kobe fans trying to look up stats to prove their statements...

shaq's number > kobe's number. it's pretty clear.

and shaq at the prime = made his teammates number go up.

kobe at his prime = recalled as selfish and a ballhog

which means that having shaq = easy buckets for his teammates

really think kobe would've shot that well w/o shaq at the time?

serioulsy grow up.

math isn't for you.

 

[deuce king]

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Notice this guy does a 360 now that facts are presented...

Yeah, I remember that game, I pointed that out earlier in this thread.  Kobe clearly took over that game and helped the Lakers beat Indy that series.

When he said this before...

Actually champ, you're the person with the moot point seeing as how you and a few others individuals on here are trying to upgrade Kobe's role or significance for his first 3 rings. 
cough cough HYPOCRITE cough cough

Let me be more specific champ, although I clearly stated this point earlier in this thread.  Kobe took over that game ONCE SHAQ FOULED OUT.  Again, Robin took over once Batman got sidelined on the bench.  Once again this dude is proving how much of a FRAUD he is, thought you was done responding to me??   

 

 

[CP1708]

Did some of the rules change on NT?  WTH? 

 

 

[al3xis]

LMAO!

 

[the anomolie]

 

[i nasmatic i]

 

[knightngale]

r.i.p. luigi

this is obviously getting too emotional for some ppl

time to lock this up

 

[xxhonchoxx]

 

[kb8isclutch]

 

[h3at23]

Am I on GameDay ?