Meditative vent/thought #5 - How we condition others and vice versa; how genuinity can't be handled

[persiafly]

Let me ask you a question Dirty...did you find me making my comments to those 2 girls that despised each other inappropriate?

I know you didn't ask me, but since I co-signed Dirty above I thought I'd pitch in here as well.

I think what you did was terrible and terribly uncouth. You are not a police officer for social behavior, no matter what your personal feelings are about the matter.

I respect your feelings and stances and principles, but I can't respect your actions. You crossed lines and involved yourself with the affairs of others when you had no place to do so. 

 

[Sir San Diego]

Originally Posted by GrimlocK

I knew these 2 girls from my class, when I'm chilling with each they say how much they despise the other, then they meetup and it's like they've been best friends the whole time....I actually busted out laughing when they hugged each other and I said "are you guys serious"

I stopped reading right there...

What's the point of putting them on blast in that scenario? Did it benefit you or them at all? Or did you think that embarrassing them would teach them a lesson besides not fleshing out their emotions/confiding in a neutral party?

You did more harm than good in that case, to them and yourself. The only positive is that you united them in disliking you. Good job.

 

[Sir San Diego]

Originally Posted by GrimlocK

I knew these 2 girls from my class, when I'm chilling with each they say how much they despise the other, then they meetup and it's like they've been best friends the whole time....I actually busted out laughing when they hugged each other and I said "are you guys serious"

I stopped reading right there...

What's the point of putting them on blast in that scenario? Did it benefit you or them at all? Or did you think that embarrassing them would teach them a lesson besides not fleshing out their emotions/confiding in a neutral party?

You did more harm than good in that case, to them and yourself. The only positive is that you united them in disliking you. Good job.

 

[vatech733]

when keeping it real goes wrong for sure bro....but having that in mind if i saw two girls that i had good relationships with and they didn't like each other and did that, i would lose much respect for both. My personal relationship with each of them would definitely be set back, but putting them on blast didn't do anyone any good. That was a matter to discuss privately with each girl.

 

[vatech733]

when keeping it real goes wrong for sure bro....but having that in mind if i saw two girls that i had good relationships with and they didn't like each other and did that, i would lose much respect for both. My personal relationship with each of them would definitely be set back, but putting them on blast didn't do anyone any good. That was a matter to discuss privately with each girl.

 

[man listen]

Originally Posted by PersiaFly

Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

eh.....sometimes dudes think that keeping it real or being geniune involves forgetting basic common courtesy and more importantly, tact.

Exactly.
You have to strike a balance between being genuine and being tactful. The latter is often totally disregarded. 

I guess that makes sense. sometimes people that keep it real forget to keep it fake for the sake of not hurting the feelings of people they don't care about offending in the first place.

 

[man listen]

Originally Posted by PersiaFly

Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

eh.....sometimes dudes think that keeping it real or being geniune involves forgetting basic common courtesy and more importantly, tact.

Exactly.
You have to strike a balance between being genuine and being tactful. The latter is often totally disregarded. 

I guess that makes sense. sometimes people that keep it real forget to keep it fake for the sake of not hurting the feelings of people they don't care about offending in the first place.

 

[dirtylicious]

that's the thing.. you don't have to be "fake" in order to keep it real...

sometimes.. you just have to keep your mouth shut.

 

[dirtylicious]

that's the thing.. you don't have to be "fake" in order to keep it real...

sometimes.. you just have to keep your mouth shut.

 

[Gill Baka Esq. LLC.]

Originally Posted by PersiaFly

Let me ask you a question Dirty...did you find me making my comments to those 2 girls that despised each other inappropriate?

I know you didn't ask me, but since I co-signed Dirty above I thought I'd pitch in here as well.

I think what you did was terrible and terribly uncouth. You are not a police officer for social behavior, no matter what your personal feelings are about the matter.

I respect your feelings and stances and principles, but I can't respect your actions. You crossed lines and involved yourself with the affairs of others when you had no place to do so. 

You sound alot like my older cousin when he keeps telling me not to get involved in the disputes of others...especially family.  I can respect this...but like vatech mentioned I sincerely lost respect for these girls because it's show's a very two-faced side...something i'm totally against.  I think it may have something to do with maturity...or probably getting older and not giving an eff about other people...I mean i'm turning 26 next week...but since I was 20 I found myself not being able to put up with certain people's b.s....and what's even worse is that the closer they are to me...it's more unbearable to myself.
Honestly I look at it like you could take the easier, not getting involved policy and **+% will remain the same...or you can voice your concerns...despite tactfulness...and carry on with your day...despite possibly burning bridges.  I mean I could  just tell each of them individually to not mention the other person when conversing with me...but realistically what happens from this?  They think your taking sides with the other person and while you don't burn the bridge...you setup a roadblock.

I believe in my case...there's only so much you can take of people talking about other people before you say something...no matter how inappropriate it is.  While I do like these girls and I don't want to get caught up in female nonsense...at the same time I find it hard to just just be okay with the 2-faced side of people...I just don't like being around people like that....if they have joined forces in not liking me then so be it...I mean I spoke to both of them today, they seemed alright...but I can't tell...and right now that's okay by me.

In retrospect I could have told them both that they need to work things out or just not associate with each other...probably a better course of action...but i'm still okay with how it turned out.  I find that i'm happiest when I just let things be said.

Edit:  and I think you guys either got the wrong idea or are just letting your fantasies run wild with how I told this to those girls....it was in an open area but no one was around except us three...and it's not like I yelled it at them.  

But besides this isolated situation...there was more to my original post than just my incident.  Look past the idea of "genuine" people keeping it too real...what of the genuine people who keep to themselves and do go about their business...try to connect with people not so genuine and get looked down upon?

 

[Gill Baka Esq. LLC.]

Originally Posted by PersiaFly

Let me ask you a question Dirty...did you find me making my comments to those 2 girls that despised each other inappropriate?

I know you didn't ask me, but since I co-signed Dirty above I thought I'd pitch in here as well.

I think what you did was terrible and terribly uncouth. You are not a police officer for social behavior, no matter what your personal feelings are about the matter.

I respect your feelings and stances and principles, but I can't respect your actions. You crossed lines and involved yourself with the affairs of others when you had no place to do so. 

You sound alot like my older cousin when he keeps telling me not to get involved in the disputes of others...especially family.  I can respect this...but like vatech mentioned I sincerely lost respect for these girls because it's show's a very two-faced side...something i'm totally against.  I think it may have something to do with maturity...or probably getting older and not giving an eff about other people...I mean i'm turning 26 next week...but since I was 20 I found myself not being able to put up with certain people's b.s....and what's even worse is that the closer they are to me...it's more unbearable to myself.
Honestly I look at it like you could take the easier, not getting involved policy and **+% will remain the same...or you can voice your concerns...despite tactfulness...and carry on with your day...despite possibly burning bridges.  I mean I could  just tell each of them individually to not mention the other person when conversing with me...but realistically what happens from this?  They think your taking sides with the other person and while you don't burn the bridge...you setup a roadblock.

I believe in my case...there's only so much you can take of people talking about other people before you say something...no matter how inappropriate it is.  While I do like these girls and I don't want to get caught up in female nonsense...at the same time I find it hard to just just be okay with the 2-faced side of people...I just don't like being around people like that....if they have joined forces in not liking me then so be it...I mean I spoke to both of them today, they seemed alright...but I can't tell...and right now that's okay by me.

In retrospect I could have told them both that they need to work things out or just not associate with each other...probably a better course of action...but i'm still okay with how it turned out.  I find that i'm happiest when I just let things be said.

Edit:  and I think you guys either got the wrong idea or are just letting your fantasies run wild with how I told this to those girls....it was in an open area but no one was around except us three...and it's not like I yelled it at them.  

But besides this isolated situation...there was more to my original post than just my incident.  Look past the idea of "genuine" people keeping it too real...what of the genuine people who keep to themselves and do go about their business...try to connect with people not so genuine and get looked down upon?

 

[persiafly]

Originally Posted by man listen

Originally Posted by PersiaFly

Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

eh.....sometimes dudes think that keeping it real or being geniune involves forgetting basic common courtesy and more importantly, tact.

Exactly.
You have to strike a balance between being genuine and being tactful. The latter is often totally disregarded. 

I guess that makes sense. sometimes people that keep it real forget to keep it fake for the sake of not hurting the feelings of people they don't care about offending in the first place.

This whole "keeping it real" thing is so cliched and meaningless. Why is keeping your opinion to yourself in a social setting "keeping it fake"? Do we all have a duty to speak up and call people out for moral transgressions anytime we see them? 
I might not like jean shorts, but I'm not gonna go around telling people their jean shorts are ugly, unless they ask my opinion about it. 

 

[persiafly]

Originally Posted by man listen

Originally Posted by PersiaFly

Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

eh.....sometimes dudes think that keeping it real or being geniune involves forgetting basic common courtesy and more importantly, tact.

Exactly.
You have to strike a balance between being genuine and being tactful. The latter is often totally disregarded. 

I guess that makes sense. sometimes people that keep it real forget to keep it fake for the sake of not hurting the feelings of people they don't care about offending in the first place.

This whole "keeping it real" thing is so cliched and meaningless. Why is keeping your opinion to yourself in a social setting "keeping it fake"? Do we all have a duty to speak up and call people out for moral transgressions anytime we see them? 
I might not like jean shorts, but I'm not gonna go around telling people their jean shorts are ugly, unless they ask my opinion about it. 

 

[Gill Baka Esq. LLC.]

Originally Posted by PersiaFly

Originally Posted by man listen

Originally Posted by PersiaFly

Exactly.
You have to strike a balance between being genuine and being tactful. The latter is often totally disregarded. 

I guess that makes sense. sometimes people that keep it real forget to keep it fake for the sake of not hurting the feelings of people they don't care about offending in the first place.

This whole "keeping it real" thing is so cliched and meaningless. Why is keeping your opinion to yourself in a social setting "keeping it fake"? Do we all have a duty to speak up and call people out for moral transgressions anytime we see them? 
I might not like jean shorts, but I'm not gonna go around telling people their jean shorts are ugly, unless they ask my opinion about it. 

your missing the point in your last statement...and I think you missed what I said towards the end of my original post and what I quoted hombrelobo saying.  Of course there are time to keep it real and times to just let things slide.  If you see something/someone clearly putting on a front for all the wrong reasons and more importantly it affects you in a negative way then you would say something about it...not something superficial like clothing...i'm talking about clashing of personalities, being two-faced.
As far as i'm concerned...keeping your opinion to yourself is not keeping it fake...it just not voicing something.  If you can let it slide, something that doesn't personally affect you in a serious way then I would co-sign with that.  But when something is so ridiculous that you feel the urge to say something about it, and it affects you more personally then wouldn't you say it's warranted?

 

[Gill Baka Esq. LLC.]

Originally Posted by PersiaFly

Originally Posted by man listen

Originally Posted by PersiaFly

Exactly.
You have to strike a balance between being genuine and being tactful. The latter is often totally disregarded. 

I guess that makes sense. sometimes people that keep it real forget to keep it fake for the sake of not hurting the feelings of people they don't care about offending in the first place.

This whole "keeping it real" thing is so cliched and meaningless. Why is keeping your opinion to yourself in a social setting "keeping it fake"? Do we all have a duty to speak up and call people out for moral transgressions anytime we see them? 
I might not like jean shorts, but I'm not gonna go around telling people their jean shorts are ugly, unless they ask my opinion about it. 

your missing the point in your last statement...and I think you missed what I said towards the end of my original post and what I quoted hombrelobo saying.  Of course there are time to keep it real and times to just let things slide.  If you see something/someone clearly putting on a front for all the wrong reasons and more importantly it affects you in a negative way then you would say something about it...not something superficial like clothing...i'm talking about clashing of personalities, being two-faced.
As far as i'm concerned...keeping your opinion to yourself is not keeping it fake...it just not voicing something.  If you can let it slide, something that doesn't personally affect you in a serious way then I would co-sign with that.  But when something is so ridiculous that you feel the urge to say something about it, and it affects you more personally then wouldn't you say it's warranted?

 

[man listen]

Originally Posted by PersiaFly

Originally Posted by man listen

Originally Posted by PersiaFly

Exactly.
You have to strike a balance between being genuine and being tactful. The latter is often totally disregarded. 

I guess that makes sense. sometimes people that keep it real forget to keep it fake for the sake of not hurting the feelings of people they don't care about offending in the first place.

This whole "keeping it real" thing is so cliched and meaningless. Why is keeping your opinion to yourself in a social setting "keeping it fake"? Do we all have a duty to speak up and call people out for moral transgressions anytime we see them? 
I might not like jean shorts, but I'm not gonna go around telling people their jean shorts are ugly, unless they ask my opinion about it. 

I understand completely what you and dirty are saying I was just being a ****. but in op's case I think he did the right thing. if you're around someone that talks a lot of %+#% about someone behind their back but act fake when they see them, you can bet they do the same thing to you. if they don't like being confronted about it then it's best for you not to associate with them because they're not your friend. I mean I don't know about you but most of my friends talk %+#% or call me out on my bull %+#% to my face and vice versa...that's why we're friends because I know I can trust them to be real. out of all my real friends, there's been plenty of times where I seriously hated them

but came to understand that they weren't insulting me, they were just keeping it real no more and no less and now I have a better sense of self and a stronger character from learning to accept that. and trust I never had to ask them for their opinion... they just "kept it real" and I'm better off because of it.

 

[man listen]

Originally Posted by PersiaFly

Originally Posted by man listen

Originally Posted by PersiaFly

Exactly.
You have to strike a balance between being genuine and being tactful. The latter is often totally disregarded. 

I guess that makes sense. sometimes people that keep it real forget to keep it fake for the sake of not hurting the feelings of people they don't care about offending in the first place.

This whole "keeping it real" thing is so cliched and meaningless. Why is keeping your opinion to yourself in a social setting "keeping it fake"? Do we all have a duty to speak up and call people out for moral transgressions anytime we see them? 
I might not like jean shorts, but I'm not gonna go around telling people their jean shorts are ugly, unless they ask my opinion about it. 

I understand completely what you and dirty are saying I was just being a ****. but in op's case I think he did the right thing. if you're around someone that talks a lot of %+#% about someone behind their back but act fake when they see them, you can bet they do the same thing to you. if they don't like being confronted about it then it's best for you not to associate with them because they're not your friend. I mean I don't know about you but most of my friends talk %+#% or call me out on my bull %+#% to my face and vice versa...that's why we're friends because I know I can trust them to be real. out of all my real friends, there's been plenty of times where I seriously hated them

but came to understand that they weren't insulting me, they were just keeping it real no more and no less and now I have a better sense of self and a stronger character from learning to accept that. and trust I never had to ask them for their opinion... they just "kept it real" and I'm better off because of it.

 

[dirtylicious]

Curious. How did their interaction affect you in a "negative way"?

 

[dirtylicious]

Curious. How did their interaction affect you in a "negative way"?

 

[6 Rings G.O.A.T.]

I agree.. 100%

 

[6 Rings G.O.A.T.]

I agree.. 100%

 

[persiafly]

Originally Posted by GrimlocK

Originally Posted by PersiaFly

Originally Posted by man listen

I guess that makes sense. sometimes people that keep it real forget to keep it fake for the sake of not hurting the feelings of people they don't care about offending in the first place.

This whole "keeping it real" thing is so cliched and meaningless. Why is keeping your opinion to yourself in a social setting "keeping it fake"? Do we all have a duty to speak up and call people out for moral transgressions anytime we see them? 
I might not like jean shorts, but I'm not gonna go around telling people their jean shorts are ugly, unless they ask my opinion about it. 

your missing the point in your last statement...and I think you missed what I said towards the end of my original post and what I quoted hombrelobo saying.  Of course there are time to keep it real and times to just let things slide.  If you see something/someone clearly putting on a front for all the wrong reasons and more importantly it affects you in a negative way then you would say something about it...not something superficial like clothing...i'm talking about clashing of personalities, being two-faced.
As far as i'm concerned...keeping your opinion to yourself is not keeping it fake...it just not voicing something.  If you can let it slide, something that doesn't personally affect you in a serious way then I would co-sign with that.  But when something is so ridiculous that you feel the urge to say something about it, and it affects you more personally then wouldn't you say it's warranted?

It seems that your definition of "affecting you in a negative way" is really loose and vague.

If I see jean shorts and I just despise them with all my heart and I find them "so ridiculous that I feel the urge to say something," am I negatively affected? 

I would agree with the rest of your point only if your definition of negative effect only included things that harmed you personally in some OBJECTIVE way, not just because you found something annoying or ridiculous. 

 

[persiafly]

Originally Posted by GrimlocK

Originally Posted by PersiaFly

Originally Posted by man listen

I guess that makes sense. sometimes people that keep it real forget to keep it fake for the sake of not hurting the feelings of people they don't care about offending in the first place.

This whole "keeping it real" thing is so cliched and meaningless. Why is keeping your opinion to yourself in a social setting "keeping it fake"? Do we all have a duty to speak up and call people out for moral transgressions anytime we see them? 
I might not like jean shorts, but I'm not gonna go around telling people their jean shorts are ugly, unless they ask my opinion about it. 

your missing the point in your last statement...and I think you missed what I said towards the end of my original post and what I quoted hombrelobo saying.  Of course there are time to keep it real and times to just let things slide.  If you see something/someone clearly putting on a front for all the wrong reasons and more importantly it affects you in a negative way then you would say something about it...not something superficial like clothing...i'm talking about clashing of personalities, being two-faced.
As far as i'm concerned...keeping your opinion to yourself is not keeping it fake...it just not voicing something.  If you can let it slide, something that doesn't personally affect you in a serious way then I would co-sign with that.  But when something is so ridiculous that you feel the urge to say something about it, and it affects you more personally then wouldn't you say it's warranted?

It seems that your definition of "affecting you in a negative way" is really loose and vague.

If I see jean shorts and I just despise them with all my heart and I find them "so ridiculous that I feel the urge to say something," am I negatively affected? 

I would agree with the rest of your point only if your definition of negative effect only included things that harmed you personally in some OBJECTIVE way, not just because you found something annoying or ridiculous. 

 

[shadimlkman]

I had to deal with a lot of "keeping it real" last night at work, I'm a bouncer and the club hosted an all ages event due to high school being over.

The first occurrence of "keeping it real" happened when some of these kids thought they were V.I.P. and didn't want to form a straight line, the main culprit who might have been a NT'er because he was wear a white tee, cargo shorts, and some XII's was a friend of the promoter and still didn't get all night. His homeboy had the nerve to come to the club in Polo pajama pants and a white tee, a quarter of these young wippa snippas wore jordan shorts and jordan shirts and legitimately thought they were doing it.

Most of the females look like they just got off their shift of street walking and these girl were 16-19, yelling out that there "grown" and "I need a man like you, dats bout dat life" because I had to aggressively take out two people for smoking inside the club.

The best "keeping it real" moment of the night came for the same group that didn't want to wait in line, after waiting in line for about 30 minutes and now have 15 people with them, they approach us telling us that they are making money for the club. We told them we would let there people in but they still couldn't come in, one of the other bouncers said some slick to the possible NT'er and his homeboy said " they couldn't have said that to me" I got a couple inches from his face and said the same thing. I'm 6'2 250 20% bf right now this kid was maybe 5'8-5'10 150ish, he turned strawberry red in seconds and he was a light skin black dude

. His homeboy that was about 6' 300+ sloppy, tried to back him up after I said that they shouldn't try to act tough all the time because one day someone is going to call them on it and they don't seem like there about that life at all. He said when people call you out it time to knuckle-up, I stared him dead in the eye and told him he wasn't bullet proof and this is sunny south Florida where the gun laws are real loose, looking back I probably shouldn't have said that but it was late and these fool were on my last nerve. I had our detail officers pat them down and let all of them except the two in the club.

The way these stories coincide with OP's vent is that most of these kids seemed  like regular everyday youngsters, but put in a setting where they have to try and impress some random girls and there friends everybody became a tough guy.        

 

[shadimlkman]

I had to deal with a lot of "keeping it real" last night at work, I'm a bouncer and the club hosted an all ages event due to high school being over.

The first occurrence of "keeping it real" happened when some of these kids thought they were V.I.P. and didn't want to form a straight line, the main culprit who might have been a NT'er because he was wear a white tee, cargo shorts, and some XII's was a friend of the promoter and still didn't get all night. His homeboy had the nerve to come to the club in Polo pajama pants and a white tee, a quarter of these young wippa snippas wore jordan shorts and jordan shirts and legitimately thought they were doing it.

Most of the females look like they just got off their shift of street walking and these girl were 16-19, yelling out that there "grown" and "I need a man like you, dats bout dat life" because I had to aggressively take out two people for smoking inside the club.

The best "keeping it real" moment of the night came for the same group that didn't want to wait in line, after waiting in line for about 30 minutes and now have 15 people with them, they approach us telling us that they are making money for the club. We told them we would let there people in but they still couldn't come in, one of the other bouncers said some slick to the possible NT'er and his homeboy said " they couldn't have said that to me" I got a couple inches from his face and said the same thing. I'm 6'2 250 20% bf right now this kid was maybe 5'8-5'10 150ish, he turned strawberry red in seconds and he was a light skin black dude

. His homeboy that was about 6' 300+ sloppy, tried to back him up after I said that they shouldn't try to act tough all the time because one day someone is going to call them on it and they don't seem like there about that life at all. He said when people call you out it time to knuckle-up, I stared him dead in the eye and told him he wasn't bullet proof and this is sunny south Florida where the gun laws are real loose, looking back I probably shouldn't have said that but it was late and these fool were on my last nerve. I had our detail officers pat them down and let all of them except the two in the club.

The way these stories coincide with OP's vent is that most of these kids seemed  like regular everyday youngsters, but put in a setting where they have to try and impress some random girls and there friends everybody became a tough guy.