[::NBA FINALS THREAD: HEAT DEFEAT SPURS 4-3. CONGRATS LEBRON & MIAMI. EARNED, NOT GIVEN::]

[mister friendly]

 

[mister friendly]

Man MJ was so great!

So much better than anybody else in recent memory that's its not even fun to talk about him anymore, now I understand these kids frustration

 

[bonafide hustla]

So much just dumb stuff being said in this thread.

The clear amount of hate spewing is unhealthy. I'm out. Never to come back to this thread have fun.

where is this notion of "hating" Lebron coming from? Dude is an amazing basketball player. Will go down as one of the best to play the game. Dudes arent taking shots at his hairline, flopping, etc etc. we're breaking down his game.

and you resort to bringing nothing to the table. im sorry but i got shots for the sensitive stans. no shots at Bron but his stans.

 

[bonafide hustla]

The Decision happened 2 days ago and Dan Gilbert, along with 3 users in particular can't fathom it at all. Wait, nevermind, this isn't 2010.

It hasn't even been 2 weeks since the Heat won, and yet these freshly dripped tears still taste delicious

you like dude above me are also bringing nothing to the table. nobody cares about "the decision" when breaking down LBJ's game. we're breaking down just his game alone.

 

[Peep Game]

Pretty sure I don't have to flip back too many pages to see the words/phrases refs, asterisks, they cheated, superteam, and the like before I get to you guys actually "breaking down his game". Who's saying he still doesn't have facets of his game he needs to improve? Who's saying he's the greatest of all time, when he still has a good number of years to prove stuff? Seems to me when to going gets tough for detractors, new irrelevant arguments are made. By all means though, continue. Still delicious.

 

[TipsyMcStagga]

I really wish NT was around when Jordan was in his prime so I could see how many people would be calling him a ball hog like they do Kobe. I know MJ took a lil time off but Kobe does have 200 more assist than he did, is on pace to pass him on the scoring list next year, and still might play the year after next. A lot of LBJ fans that I know can hardly recall seeing Jordan play like I can even though some are the same age. It's kinda crazy to me...lol

 

[bonafide hustla]

Pretty sure I don't have to flip back too many pages to see the words/phrases refs, asterisks, they cheated, superteam, and the like before I get to you guys actually "breaking down his game". Who's saying he still doesn't have facets of his game he needs to improve? Who's saying he's the greatest of all time, when he still has a good number of years to prove stuff? Seems to me when to going gets tough for detractors, new irrelevant arguments are made. By all means though, continue. Still delicious.

well Lebron was interviewed in an article where he himself felt like he had an MJ moment, so there's that.

and right now he is not as good as Michael Jordan was as a basketball player at the same age. Bron probably looks better on paper, but nah.

no new arguments are made. funny you say that about detractors b/c thats my exact sentiments on the Lebron stans.

If you want to deduce the argument, its about Lebron's inability to have a killer scoring instinct, even in moments. If he did, they may have swept the spurs. no random arguments really being thrown out. Dude's a suspect shooter. and yea he def has time to improve cant take that away from him. However, he's been in the league 10 years.

His peak is now and the spurs were leaving him open to shoot. He also won 2 rings with this deficiency in his game. So Im not super optimistic about it improving much. Dude is 28 and been in the league 10 years

 

[bonafide hustla]

I really wish NT was around when Jordan was in his prime so I could see how many people would be calling him a ball hog like they do Kobe. I know MJ took a lil time off but Kobe does have 200 more assist than he did, is on pace to pass him on the scoring list next year, and still might play the year after next. A lot of LBJ fans that I know can hardly recall seeing Jordan play like I can even though some are the same age. It's kinda crazy to me...lol

i was around. Young but around when he got his first ring in 1990. He played superhero ball before that and put up ASTRONOMICAL stats. 33, 8,8, 3 steals, 1 block.

kobe has 200 more assists but he started when he was 18. Kobe is ALSO good passer so that doesnt negate MJ from being the same

 

[cashbanks]

One of you clowns really had the nerve to say Kobe is maybe as good a passer as Bron

Not even on the same planet when it comes to passing or anything that doesn't involve shooting really ill give you Kobe's the better jump shooter THE END

You've got to be joking bruh like c'mon man

 

[TipsyMcStagga]

I really wish NT was around when Jordan was in his prime so I could see how many people would be calling him a ball hog like they do Kobe. I know MJ took a lil time off but Kobe does have 200 more assist than he did, is on pace to pass him on the scoring list next year, and still might play the year after next. A lot of LBJ fans that I know can hardly recall seeing Jordan play like I can even though some are the same age. It's kinda crazy to me...lol

i was around. Young but around when he got his first ring in 1990. He played superhero ball before that and put up ASTRONOMICAL stats. 33, 8,8, 3 steals, 1 block.

kobe has 200 more assists but he started when he was 18. Kobe is ALSO good passer so that doesnt negate MJ from being the same

Oh I definitely wasn't taking anything away from MJ. Like people already stated, Kobe and MJ take similar approaches to the game. Just cause they DIDN'T do as much in the passing department doesn't mean they couldn't or in Kobe's case, can't...

 

[bonafide hustla]

One of you clowns really had the nerve to say Kobe is maybe as good a passer as Bron

Not even on the same planet when it comes to passing or anything that doesn't involve shooting really ill give you Kobe's the better jump shooter THE END

You've got to be joking bruh like c'mon man

1. you like the other youngin from earlier need to recognize skill and ability and separate it from mindset.
2. Kobe averaged 5,6 assists every year since he's been 21....playing hero ball and shooting a ton of shots


they're absolutely on the same planet when it comes to ability/skill in passing. Bron is def better, but Kobe is elite in all abilities. its mindset as already mentioned. im not even a kobe fan like that but Bron needs to surpass him before you mention him with MJ

 

[imlive365]

1. you like the other youngin from earlier need to recognize skill and ability and separate it from mindset.
2. Kobe averaged 5,6 assists every year since he's been 21....playing hero ball and shooting a ton of shots


they're absolutely on the same planet when it comes to ability/skill in passing. Bron is def better, but Kobe is elite in all abilities. its mindset as already mentioned. im not even a kobe fan like that but Bron needs to surpass him before you mention him with MJ

How do you know it's mindset your argument is something tour not sure of. Your not in kobes head to know that. And your saying kobes 12 or so game stretch where he was facilitating is what shows he can set his teammates up just as good as bron? That's like me saying lebron is a better jump shooter then kobe but it's not his mindset do he dosent show it. And the stats show that. And if you look at the stats brons fg percentage and 3 point percentage is higher then kobes does that mean he's a better jump shooter?

 

[shoelyesses]

Lebron an elite shot blocker now? vs. being a playmaker? kobe never been a playmaker blocking the ball?

(already)


Kobe can't pass really good when he chooses to?

(already)

getting others involved is a mindset, not a skill. same with team leader/making players better. what irrelevant points to bring to the table. we know Kobe plays hero ball.


kobe showed you IN 2012 that he can facilitate. his mindset is just to score/not trust teammates. he has a killer scoring instinct. i just have to straight up discredit your opinion. no disrespect i just think you're wrong.

he averaged like 6 assists in a season where he put up 30 per. and like 6 rebounds. as a 6'6" 220 2 guard. Bron is 6'9" 260.

No he cannot sure he can make a pass...hell we all can pass a basketball...But as far as being a good passer, the ability to read def. and make the best pass and play in a way that puts players in the best position while passing is different.

Kobe so called magic Bryant performance of last year reminds me when Denver picked up A.I. and he picked up his passing.

Getting players involved leadership etc..while your right you do have to have the mentality of a facilitator...you also have to have the skillset ability to do so. A few splashes here and there throughout a career, and a section of a season doesn't make you elite or great at anything.

If that's the case we can say plenty of players have had exceptional passing scoring etc.. performances throughout of their careers. We are talking consistency.. Irony of it all the knock yall have on LeBron is he hasn't been clutch consistent enough...yet you use Kobe inconsistent passing as well as the other spurts of examples you gave makes him elite

So which is it...are you great/elite for doing something long term/consistent, or if you show occasionally show flashes of doing something good.

LeBron isn't a elite blocker in terms of all positions etc...but for his position id say he is. Hell Kobe isn't even the best blocker at his position...which is wade btw easily.

What does weight and size have to do with anything...? Are you suggesting that Kobe being smaller somehow makes it more difficult to be a better passer? A more efficient scorer? (stats show that he is, even from the jumpshot) cause I know yall like to say its because he post up in the lane a lot...to which the stats show that isn't true.

Ill give you one on one defender...and isolated scorer..(again I wouldn't be shocked if Durant surpass him in that area when its all said and done)

But to say someone is good at something or even elite at it solely on the basis of they could do it but choose not to is silly. What if we applied your theory to other facets of life. Imagine telling your boss...oh I could do my job good/great have the ability to do so but I choose to be ok mediocre at it.....lol  I couldn't imagine you getting employee of the month based on what you could do if you wanted.

So all you have said so far is 2 things to which I agreed Kobe is better at, and it isn't by a lot...and a whole bunch of things you said oh well Kobe hasn't ever really showed or proved it much if at all but could if he wanted.

Well careers and legacies etc...aren't based on what could be or what you could've done if you wanted. Don't believe me ask Grant Hill, Penny or TMac.

 

[shoelyesses]

How do you know it's mindset your argument is something tour not sure of. Your not in kobes head to know that. And your saying kobes 12 or so game stretch where he was facilitating is what shows he can set his teammates up just as good as bron? That's like me saying lebron is a better jump shooter then kobe but it's not his mindset do he dosent show it. And the stats show that. And if you look at the stats brons fg percentage and 3 point percentage is higher then kobes does that mean he's a better jump shooter?

Exactly..thats like saying oh well Jordan wasn't a great 3 point shooter...not because he simply wasn't a good 3 point shooter, but its because it wasn't in his mind to be a great 3 point shooter...And then I proceed to list a few games here and there out of his entire career to show oh he can shoot the 3 ball great.

 

[bonafide hustla]

How do you know it's mindset your argument is something tour not sure of. Your not in kobes head to know that. And your saying kobes 12 or so game stretch where he was facilitating is what shows he can set his teammates up just as good as bron? That's like me saying lebron is a better jump shooter then kobe but it's not his mindset do he dosent show it. And the stats show that. And if you look at the stats brons fg percentage and 3 point percentage is higher then kobes does that mean he's a better jump shooter?

bro I cited Kobe's career numbers. they were good with him playing hero ball and shooting a lot. 5,6. there's the consistency his entire career numbers. combine that with the spurts Kobe showed he can average a high number of assists whilst still scoring, rebounding, defending and I'd say yea he could focus on passing.

i hate to even be a stats guy but go name some players who are putting up as good all around numbers as Kobe has done for years..

Lebron has never showed that he can be a consistent lights out shooter so I disagree with your whole angle.

so yea.

 

[bonafide hustla]

Exactly..thats like saying oh well Jordan wasn't a great 3 point shooter...not because he simply wasn't a good 3 point shooter, but its because it wasn't in his mind to be a great 3 point shooter...And then I proceed to list a few games here and there out of his entire career to show oh he can shoot the 3 ball great.

if you said that I'd just up your argument and say watch games. watch when he was actually clutch shooting the 3. then tell you to go to basketball-reference.com and look up MJ's career 3s where you'll see he shot bad rates when he was shooting low amounts of 3s but he shot the midrange at an outrageously efficient rate. then I'd tell you to look at the total number of 3s he's shooting in his best % years and compare to Bron's..and ask if they are similar or nah?

 

[imlive365]

bro I cited Kobe's career numbers. they were good with him playing hero ball and shooting a lot. 5,6. there's the consistency his entire career numbers. combine that with the spurts Kobe showed he can average a high number of assists whilst still scoring, rebounding, defending and I'd say yea he could focus on passing.

i hate to even be a stats guy but go name some players who are putting up as good all around numbers as Kobe has done for years..

Lebron has never showed that he can be a consistent lights out shooter so I disagree with your whole angle.

so yea.

lebron was knocking down his jumper all season long. the only series he struggled in was against the spurs.

 

[bonafide hustla]

No he cannot sure he can make a pass...hell we all can pass a basketball...But as far as being a good passer, the ability to read def. and make the best pass and play in a way that puts players in the best position while passing is different.

Kobe so called magic Bryant performance of last year reminds me when Denver picked up A.I. and he picked up his passing.

Getting players involved leadership etc..while your right you do have to have the mentality of a facilitator...you also have to have the skillset ability to do so. A few splashes here and there throughout a career, and a section of a season doesn't make you elite or great at anything.

If that's the case we can say plenty of players have had exceptional passing scoring etc.. performances throughout of their careers. We are talking consistency.. Irony of it all the knock yall have on LeBron is he hasn't been clutch consistent enough...yet you use Kobe inconsistent passing as well as the other spurts of examples you gave makes him elite

So which is it...are you great/elite for doing something long term/consistent, or if you show occasionally show flashes of doing something good.

LeBron isn't a elite blocker in terms of all positions etc...but for his position id say he is. Hell Kobe isn't even the best blocker at his position...which is wade btw easily.

What does weight and size have to do with anything...? Are you suggesting that Kobe being smaller somehow makes it more difficult to be a better passer? A more efficient scorer? (stats show that he is, even from the jumpshot) cause I know yall like to say its because he post up in the lane a lot...to which the stats show that isn't true.

Ill give you one on one defender...and isolated scorer..(again I wouldn't be shocked if Durant surpass him in that area when its all said and done)

But to say someone is good at something or even elite at it solely on the basis of they could do it but choose not to is silly. What if we applied your theory to other facets of life. Imagine telling your boss...oh I could do my job good/great have the ability to do so but I choose to be ok mediocre at it.....lol  I couldn't imagine you getting employee of the month based on what you could do if you wanted.

So all you have said so far is 2 things to which I agreed Kobe is better at, and it isn't by a lot...and a whole bunch of things you said oh well Kobe hasn't ever really showed or proved it much if at all but could if he wanted.

Well careers and legacies etc...aren't based on what could be or what you could've done if you wanted. Don't believe me ask Grant Hill, Penny or TMac.

wall of text my brother. way too much too answer all of that precisely but I'll just say Kobe's career assists are good. name me some more guys comparable while doing all the other stuff Kobe did.

not sure if y'all watched games enough but remember but Kobe has actually done a slight troll job when it comes to assisting. it's mindset bc I've seen him troll the league with being a facilitator. but also be a facilitator very well. and Kobe was criticized early on to pass more no secret. just like Jordan in both their early years of hero ball. kobe just contiued hero ball. Jordan just found a better recipe and wanted to win.

don't bait me into sounding like some extreme psychoanalyst or something though. just look at Kobe's career numbers overall and individually and give me another guy that's similar

also don't compare Kobe now to dudes in their prime. make sure you know Kobe's prime.

and I'm not even a "Kobe guy" like that.

 

[bonafide hustla]

lebron was knocking down his jumper all season long. the only series he struggled in was against the spurs.

nah he found out where and when to shoot the 3 ball at a good rate. his midrange improved but not by a lot. the way he squared up and got a very calculated/uncontested midrange ...when he hit that game 7 clencher...is one of the better jumpers you'll see from Bron.

mike shot from every angle in every way possible and was wet. Kobe has shown Mike-ness in that aspect. Bron, na

 

[imlive365]

nah he found out where and when to shoot the 3 ball at a good rate. his midrange improved but not by a lot. the way he squared up and got a very calculated/uncontested midrange ...when he hit that game 7 clencher...is one of the better jumpers you'll see from Bron.

mike shot from every angle in every way possible and was wet. Kobe has shown Mike-ness in that aspect. Bron, na

do you live in south florida? i watch almost every heat game on tv bron was knocking down his shots all year. your taking credit away from him for taking his shot where he knows he'll knock them down at. do kobe and did mj not take there shots where they know there gonna knock them down and feel confident about there shot? dont act like kobe and mj just shot and shoot random jumpers anywhere on the court and do it at a high percentage.

 

[mister friendly]

I hate how young dudes try to talk about Jordans early 3 point percentages when it's obvious the 3 point shot was a relatively new weapon in 1980s

 

[bonafide hustla]

word^ and to my man above I got league pass. I've watched enough. regardless what you say though Jordan and Kobe scored instinctually. this is the killer, i repeat killer, instinct that people speak of. its not some random catch phrase

even guys who can put up high number scoring aren't labeled that. and it showed/shows in their games. down to how they are getting shots off

 

[a55a5in11]

I hate how young dudes try to talk about Jordans early 3 point percentages when it's obvious the 3 point shot was a relatively new weapon in 1980s

early? he shot over 40% only twice in his career.

 

[shoelyesses]

wall of text my brother. way too much too answer all of that precisely but I'll just say Kobe's career assists are good. name me some more guys comparable while doing all the other stuff Kobe did.

not sure if y'all watched games enough but remember but Kobe has actually done a slight troll job when it comes to assisting. it's mindset bc I've seen him troll the league with being a facilitator. but also be a facilitator very well. and Kobe was criticized early on to pass more no secret. just like Jordan in both their early years of hero ball. kobe just contiued hero ball. Jordan just found a better recipe and wanted to win.

don't bait me into sounding like some extreme psychoanalyst or something though. just look at Kobe's career numbers overall and individually and give me another guy that's similar

also don't compare Kobe now to dudes in their prime. make sure you know Kobe's prime.

and I'm not even a "Kobe guy" like that.

well how many guys play 17 plus years...Um id imagine so he would have decent assist numbers. That's like comparing hours at work with a 5 year guy and a guy working on 15 yrs....

bad example you said yourself he trolled the assist. I never said he is a horrid passer...just it isn't a strong suit of his....nor is he the passer that LeBron is.

Again we cant compare numbers because of 17 yrs Kobe has a huge advantage over a ton of players due to playing much longer. Im speaking strictly on a take a typical any random average game in his prime and show me where he is a better overall player then LeBron outside of his obvious offensive scoring ability and one on one defensive skillset.

We not comparing who has accomplished more in their careers cause its obviously unfair and in favor or Kobe.

 

[bonafide hustla]

well how many guys play 17 plus years...Um id imagine so he would have decent assist numbers. That's like comparing hours at work with a 5 year guy and a guy working on 15 yrs....

bad example you said yourself he trolled the assist. I never said he is a horrid passer...just it isn't a strong suit of his....nor is he the passer that LeBron is.

Again we cant compare numbers because of 17 yrs Kobe has a huge advantage over a ton of players due to playing much longer. Im speaking strictly on a take a typical any random average game in his prime and show me where he is a better overall player then LeBron outside of his obvious offensive scoring ability and one on one defensive skillset.

We not comparing who has accomplished more in their careers cause its obviously unfair and in favor or Kobe.

u got it man. ill agree to disagree. I think the only way you say it isn't a strong suit is because he plays hero ball. which again is mindset. and I'll take a large sample size over whatever you are trying to allude to