Nike Zoom Vaporfly Elite 2017

[spiderjericho]

I wanted to ask that. How rampant is drug use? Figure EPO, steroids, etc would help in this type of activity.

Guess my only question would be why an impoverished continent like Africa is able to dominate when China, Russia, US, etc have access to better drugs, doctors, technology, etc.

 

[vento]

I wanted to ask that. How rampant is drug use? Figure EPO, steroids, etc would help in this type of activity.

Guess my only question would be why an impoverished continent like Africa is able to dominate when China, Russia, US, etc have access to better drugs, doctors, technology, etc.

Well, Russia has been banned recently - athletes from Russia that pass IAAF and IOC tests compete under their own "flag" in international competitions. Not with running/T&F, but China has been the subject of rumor in other sports, most notably gymnastics. In the U.S., just last week was the Nike ORPJT / Salazar decision. There have been allegations with certain groups in Kenya and the testing issues in those regions. Again, none of it is proven to date, but there is a bit of a cloud over some of the athletes/coaches coming from those areas.

Again, it is all speculation and nothing but speculation.

 

[Steve84]

3 carbon spring blades now huh.. who does Nike think they are... Gillette?

 

[rfx45]

i believe we have discussed this issue before:

IAAF to Investigate Nike's ZoomX Vaporfly Following Multiple Broken Records

According to The Times, since the Vaporfly’s initial launch back in 2016, “Dennis Kimetto’s 2014 world record of 2:2:57 has been bettered on five occasions, each time by an athlete wearing the shoe.” In addition, Eliud Kipchoge wore a special prototype of the Vaporfly when he became the first person to run a sub-two-hour marathon, and so did Brigid Kosgei when she broke the women’s world record the next day. “Normally I don’t like to fall for marketing stuff,” performance coach for professional runners Steve Magness told The Washington Post, “but if you look at the research and data, the shoes seem to have a big effect.”

As a result, many professional athletes have reportedly complained to the IAAF (International Association of Athletics Federations) and the Athletics Integrity Unit in hopes that the organizations will examine the shoes to determine if they are providing runners with an unfair advantage. The IAAF recently issued a statement to The Times acknowledging the issue. “Recent advances in technology mean that the concept of ‘assistance’ to athletes… has been the subject of much debate in the athletics world,” said the statement. “The IAAF has established a working group to consider the issues.”

 

[datrippeleffect]

i believe we have discussed this issue before:

IAAF to Investigate Nike's ZoomX Vaporfly Following Multiple Broken Records

I thought Brigid was just wearing a normal pair of the pink next %. She definitely seem confused by their shoe questions in the press conference after.

 

[sssstan]

i believe we have discussed this issue before:

IAAF to Investigate Nike's ZoomX Vaporfly Following Multiple Broken Records

According to The Times, since the Vaporfly’s initial launch back in 2016, “Dennis Kimetto’s 2014 world record of 2:2:57 has been bettered on five occasions, each time by an athlete wearing the shoe.” In addition, Eliud Kipchoge wore a special prototype of the Vaporfly when he became the first person to run a sub-two-hour marathon, and so did Brigid Kosgei when she broke the women’s world record the next day. “Normally I don’t like to fall for marketing stuff,” performance coach for professional runners Steve Magness told The Washington Post, “but if you look at the research and data, the shoes seem to have a big effect.”

As a result, many professional athletes have reportedly complained to the IAAF (International Association of Athletics Federations) and the Athletics Integrity Unit in hopes that the organizations will examine the shoes to determine if they are providing runners with an unfair advantage. The IAAF recently issued a statement to The Times acknowledging the issue. “Recent advances in technology mean that the concept of ‘assistance’ to athletes… has been the subject of much debate in the athletics world,” said the statement. “The IAAF has established a working group to consider the issues.”

would assume that it’s non Nike athletes that would be bringing up these complaints but If I’m not mistaken, aren’t other companies starting to add a carbon fiber plate to their shoes as well? the plate seems to be the thing that is causing all this controversy from the articles I’ve been reading

regardless of shoes and the tech in it, I still believe that it takes a lot of training and talent just to be able to run sub 2 and we should all just be happy to see this barrier be broken

 

[rfx45]

i do think it helps propel you forward but it seems like "nike just figured out to use it first so now everyone else is implementing it" type of idea but a similar tech would be/has been(?) banned in the nba for example

 

[Varrick]

i do think it helps propel you forward but it seems like "nike just figured out to use it first so now everyone else is implementing it" type of idea but a similar tech would be/has been(?) banned in the nba for example

Research suggests that the carbon fiber plate doesn't actually act like a spring and it isn't the main driver of performance gains:

An expert in the energetics of running, Hoogkamer was the first author on the peer-reviewed study Nike relied on to claim the OG Vaporfly could improve running economy by 4 percent. What that study couldn't tell him and his colleagues was where the energy savings came from. So they designed a follow-up study to begin teasing apart where those precious percentage points originate.

Their results showed that the foam in the midsole (Nike calls it ZoomX, but foam nerds know it as Pebax) is uncommonly compliant and resilient. Translation: It's squishy and springy, respectively. Those properties enable the foam to absorb the energy a runner applies when their feet meet pavement and return a portion of it to their stride … somehow. How it works, exactly, remains unclear. The researchers originally hypothesized that the foam would save runners energy by reducing bending at their knees, but that turned out not to be the case. "But the foam, mechanically speaking, is a big player in whatever's going on," Hoogkamer says.

Their results also showed that the carbon fiber plate plays a role—but not in the way many people think. When the Vaporfly was first unveiled, critics of the shoe speculated that the plate acted like a spring. But Hoogkamer's findings suggest the plate's spring function is negligible. What the plate does do is improves runners' ankle mechanics by stabilizing the joint and reducing the load on the calves. At the same time, its stiffness helps keep runners' toes nice and straight, allowing them to preserve the energy they would otherwise spend flexing them.

If keeping your toes straight sounds to you like it would provide pretty meager energy benefits, Hoogkamer agrees. "Physiologically speaking, I have a hard time believing that eliminating toe flexion saves you much," he says. "My current thinking is that the foam and plate are working in concert, but that the foam is doing more work than the plate."

The Science Behind Nike's New, Even Faster Marathon Shoe

At Sunday's London Marathon, Eliud Kipchoge will wear the ZoomX Vaporfly Next%, the latest installment in Nike's performance-boosting Vaporfly line of shoes.

www.wired.com

 

[vento]

I thought Brigid was just wearing a normal pair of the pink next %. She definitely seem confused by their shoe questions in the press conference after.

If she was confused, it's probably because she doesn't speak much, if any, English. She's also probably a little nervous about the results of the drug test (see earlier posts). Her finish line body language looked awfully guilty to me. Again, I hope she's clean.

 

[smithma388]

If she was confused, it's probably because she doesn't speak much, if any, English. She's also probably a little nervous about the results of the drug test (see earlier posts). Her finish line body language looked awfully guilty to me. Again, I hope she's clean.

What about her body language looked guilty? If anything she looked lonely because she didn't have a huge entourage to greet her upon completion.

 

[rfx45]

 

[datrippeleffect]

If she was confused, it's probably because she doesn't speak much, if any, English. She's also probably a little nervous about the results of the drug test (see earlier posts). Her finish line body language looked awfully guilty to me. Again, I hope she's clean.

I meant the reporters kept pressing more even though it was obvious she was struggling to understand. Needed a translator up there with her. I’ll reserve judgement until the test results come out.

 

[manx]

been out of the loop guys, what is that shoe he ran in and is holding?

 

[Cody_]

been out of the loop guys, what is that shoe he ran in and is holding?

Allegedly named the AlphaFLY, prototype next gen Vaporfly.

 

[getz_racer]

I’m sorry, but Kiochoges shoes are ridiculous and need to be banned. The 3 CF plates in there even look like a spring. The 4% and NEXT% have only one plate and even the biomechanics who did the initial study indicated that the performance gain was maybe 3% from the foam and 1% the plate. Sounds to me like the push is towards stack height limit. If they ban CF plates, companies could still theoretically get away with PEBAX shanks, like what’s in the Streak 6/7 models. Stick that between ZoomX foam to a limited height and that would presumably be fine and almost the same shoe as the 4% and NEXT%.

Also, I’ve read a few articles now where the authors are severely misinformed, hinting that Kosgei wore a “prototype” shoe like EK did. NO!!! She wore the commercially available NEXT%.

 

[ayipapi]

I’m sorry, but Kiochoges shoes are ridiculous and need to be banned. The 3 CF plates in there even look like a spring. The 4% and NEXT% have only one plate and even the biomechanics who did the initial study indicated that the performance gain was maybe 3% from the foam and 1% the plate. Sounds to me like the push is towards stack height limit. If they ban CF plates, companies could still theoretically get away with PEBAX shanks, like what’s in the Streak 6/7 models. Stick that between ZoomX foam to a limited height and that would presumably be fine and almost the same shoe as the 4% and NEXT%.

Also, I’ve read a few articles now where the authors are severely misinformed, hinting that Kosgei wore a “prototype” shoe like EK did. NO!!! She wore the commercially available NEXT%.

Just so I understand are you saying the shoes made the difference in his run?

 

[getz_racer]

Just so I understand are you saying the shoes made the difference in his run?

I’m no hater. I love the VF and have been training and racing in them since they came out. But this new shoe? Cmon, How can you look at the schematic for that shoe and not think it has a spring constructed in the forefoot? You can argue that the full length carbon fiber plate is present in the Vaporfly to give structure to the soft foam which would be too loose and floppy otherwise. That same plate is present in the AlphaFly and I’m fine with that. But exactly what purpose do these other two plates serve with the airbags sandwiched between them?

Do I think these shoes played a factor in his 1:59:40? Yeah, probably. Which is sad because I think Kipchoge is amazing. He gives me a lot of motivation in my own running. Maybe he could have still broken 2 in his VF Elites or Next%, but we will never know.

 

[smithma388]

I’m no hater. I love the VF and have been training and racing in them since they came out. But this new shoe? Cmon, How can you look at the schematic for that shoe and not think it has a spring constructed in the forefoot? You can argue that the full length carbon fiber plate is present in the Vaporfly to give structure to the soft foam which would be too loose and floppy otherwise. That same plate is present in the AlphaFly and I’m fine with that. But exactly what purpose do these other two plates serve with the airbags sandwiched between them?

Do I think these shoes played a factor in his 1:59:40? Yeah, probably. Which is sad because I think Kipchoge is amazing. He gives me a lot of motivation in my own running. Maybe he could have still broken 2 in his VF Elites or Next%, but we will never know.

I think I agree with you. I don't believe a single plate in between foam can act as a "spring" as some people say. But stacking them in this manner probably does offer some extra advantage.

 

[hiffletron]

I worry about how regulating shoe geometry will affect the vast majority of runners who aren’t elites. Would Nike release a ‘consumer’ version of the Vaporfly for casual runners like myself? I love wearing my VFs because they keep my legs so dang fresh. I run longer and more frequently, and I’m injured less.

The last paragraph of this article sums up my feelings: https://www.outsideonline.com/2400514/nike-vaporfly-carbon-plate-presentation

 

[ZoomXRunner]

What are the thought on the pink VF for men? I initially was going to pass on them but seeing them in Chicago I’m second guessing.

 

[dgar08]

What are the thought on the pink VF for men? I initially was going to pass on them but seeing them in Chicago I’m second guessing.

Wear whatever color you want If you think they’re dope

 

[rfx45]

I wish it had a black midsole

 

[spiderjericho]

I like the color way. I’d like to buy it on disco. The only thing I can get right now is 10%.

 

[Fedefasurf]

What's the difference between Nike Elite Cushioned socks and Nike Elite Lightweight socks?
Price is the same..

 

[ZoomXRunner]

What's the difference between Nike Elite Cushioned socks and Nike Elite Lightweight socks?
Price is the same..

The cushioned socks are thicker. I prefer the lightweight version but they tend to wear quicker or at least that’s my experience.