Nike's new RSVP process

nikeDC sent the same tweet about implementing the new system... i think its spreading to be company wide.
 
bigj505 said:
nikeDC sent the same tweet about implementing the new system... i think its spreading to be company wide.
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This is 100% company wide.  They all sent out a tweet at the same time yesterday.  But before that tweet, it wasn't a stupid question to ask if they would be doing it right off the bat at every location, or just testing at Portland the first time
 
BayArea23 said:
trappedintime said:
Yeah, it wasn't a very well kept secret for anyone who follows sneakers. Everyone knew what's been going on, and really... how much effort did it take on Nike's part to write up a 2 or 3 sentence policy, and make a set of images for every store's releases? This is definitely a step in the right direction. It will be interesting to see if these snipers rebound or in some cases have their custies' bot winners tossed out altogether. It'd be interesting to see what the NT employees are looking at on their end with bots vs actual users. There has to be a gap between the bot replies and the first human DM.
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How can Nike tell how fast a human can send a DM... I can see how 1-2secs are suspect. But you can delay the bot a few secs to make it seem like it's coming from an actual human.
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its a different process now.

its really, really easy to read the text that nike used before and throw it into an automated system.

the image adds 2 complications.

1. you now need to get the text from all of the images.
2. you need to know which keyword is the correct one. simply thinking you can just look for a rectangle is much easier said than done.

and nike tossing out that they can ban people for using a bot could deter people from just grabbing all of the keywords and sending a DM for each one.

i used to work in eDiscovery and learned a lot about OCRing (basically grabbing text from images). software could have gotten better so i could be out of date but the true kicker is the rectangle around the real keyword. shape recognition isnt common practice that i know of.
 
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thefasterblade said:
SneakerRSVP is claiming that they already found a way around this...
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i can see this being true.

nike opened the flood gates by using twitter to do releases even tho it honestly didnt need to. once people found out it was profitable, it became worth their time.

the issue nike will have is its 1 vs infinite and it honestly cant combat or think of every way people use to take advantage of the system especially with the resources they probably have.

best thing to do is toss the twitter linked releases since their shoes will sell regardless. doubt they will tho.
 
bigj505 said:
i used to work in eDiscovery and learned a lot about OCRing (basically grabbing text from images). software could have gotten better so i could be out of date but the true kicker is the rectangle around the real keyword. shape recognition isnt common practice that i know of.
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Thanks for the info in that whole post.  It's always interesting to hear the technical reasons that explain why Nike chose a certain method in the end.  LOL I never thought the JB forum on NT would be such a valuable place to learn so much about computers/programs.  Who woulda thought even 5 years ago.... I wonder how much twitter benefits in terms of dollars, off of Nike using their system to do this.  They obviously get a ton of new users just for this, as a lot of people on this forum alone have joined twitter and followed nikestore just because of RSVP's and TLO releases.  Do you think, even at their size, they have to ramp up servers anywhere on Saturday mornings because of us fiends? 
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  And I am not asking because I assume this happens or anything like that, I honestly just don't know and it seems this is as good a place to ask as any.
 
Just bring back the campouts. I'm really trying for the Foams, and this makes it much harder for me, so I'm nervous. Hope I can get it.
 
GrapeApe said:
bigj505 said:
i used to work in eDiscovery and learned a lot about OCRing (basically grabbing text from images). software could have gotten better so i could be out of date but the true kicker is the rectangle around the real keyword. shape recognition isnt common practice that i know of.
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Thanks for the info in that whole post.  It's always interesting to hear the technical reasons that explain why Nike chose a certain method in the end.  LOL I never thought the JB forum on NT would be such a valuable place to learn so much about computers/programs.  Who woulda thought even 5 years ago.... I wonder how much twitter benefits in terms of dollars, off of Nike using their system to do this.  They obviously get a ton of new users just for this, as a lot of people on this forum alone have joined twitter and followed nikestore just because of RSVP's and TLO releases.  Do you think, even at their size, they have to ramp up servers anywhere on Saturday mornings because of us fiends?  :lol:   And I am not asking because I assume this happens or anything like that, I honestly just don't know and it seems this is as good a place to ask as any.
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:lol: its a lot of geeks on here i guess.

i have no clue about twitter as they already have a huge following. i do know that the actual links posted get hung up from time to time for big releases. ive seen the spinny ball thingy a couple of times when i clicked the link provided.
 
How about using a HANDWRITTEN piece of paper with a very simple and quick "riddle" as the new system? Here's what I mean:

View media item 334136
Or:

View media item 334135
It's extremely easy for anyone that isn't a complete moron to gather that the hashtag would be #Banter. Wouldn't this be literally impossible to bot, especially the second image? If there was any hope of OCRing then those lines and scribbles would throw it off for sure. Well, what do you guys think? It's so "low tech" and seems so simple, but wouldn't it solve the problem?

And yes, I did tag my pics cause when Nike eventually uses this system they're gonna send me vouchers and free kicks. They might even sponsor me and give me my own signature shoe! :rofl:
 
Unfortunately there is a way to automate this new system. Finding the text is fairly easy, the bounding box, there are a few ways to locate that. Not something I would create, but don't be surprised when the bots reappear(slowly).

My guess, the next system will require a login to the Nike system to limit these next gen bots. With the login, they can check your IP to restrict access. You could have users sharing a IP, but obviously a number of users hitting the box at the same time would be a red flag.

It's impressive to see these kids try to beat the system, from a developer's point of view. If they took the time to spin other applications, they could start something that goes beyond a couple of dollars on the side. You win some, you lose some.
 
unlaced said:
Unfortunately there is a way to automate this new system. Finding the text is fairly easy, the bounding box, there are a few ways to locate that. Not something I would create, but don't be surprised when the bots reappear(slowly).

My guess, the next system will require a login to the Nike system to limit these next gen bots. With the login, they can check your IP to restrict access. You could have users sharing a IP, but obviously a number of users hitting the box at the same time would be a red flag.

It's impressive to see these kids try to beat the system, from a developer's point of view. If they took the time to spin other applications, they could start something that goes beyond a couple of dollars on the side. You win some, you lose some.
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agreed. as stated earlier, nike took so long to even attempt to twart the exploiters that it has now become a target for constant exploitation. people have realized its easier than reselling and probably more profitable.
 
GrapeApe said:
Chronos not only did get plenty of members pairs for free, but whatever cash he was receiving from the $10 donations is nothing compared to what the few who donated (NOT YOU) would have had to pay to get them for retail online or from a reseller.  And I'm sure you'll have two or three responses, just to this post, fulla BS to try and take every statement I said, miss the actual point of the statement, and harp on something that only you believe because you deal with the subject in one of your apparent 500 jobs.  So have a good time.
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I agree what's the big deal from Chronos having an option where you can donate $10.00?   I mean lets think about it.  Time is money and he took the time  to set everything up.   I used his services for free on the 13's to see if it would work and it did.  I didn't have to pay a thing.  I didn't have to wait around on twitter all day or nothing.   Hopefully he finds a way to beat the new system because I won't have a problem donating $10.00 bucks to him.  He helped me out so I'll help him out.  what's $10.00?   For me to drive around town and enter a bunch of raffles that I have little chance to win will cost me $10.00 to $15.00 bucks.   So the service pays for it self.   Stop hating on someone who makes money on hooking people up.  I see it as a win win situation.   Don't hate the player hate the game.  Blame Nike for all of this.  If they just released more of the product we wouldn't have this problem.
 
michigan said:
I agree what's the big deal from Chronos having an option where you can donate $10.00?   I mean lets think about it.  Time is money and he took the time  to set everything up.   I used his services for free on the 13's to see if it would work and it did.  I didn't have to pay a thing.  I didn't have to wait around on twitter all day or nothing.   Hopefully he finds a way to beat the new system because I won't have a problem donating $10.00 bucks to him.  He helped me out so I'll help him out.  what's $10.00?   For me to drive around town and enter a bunch of raffles that I have little chance to win will cost me $10.00 to $15.00 bucks.   So the service pays for it self.   Stop hating on someone who makes money on hooking people up.  I see it as a win win situation.   Don't hate the player hate the game.  Blame Nike for all of this.  If they just released more of the product we wouldn't have this problem.
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Preach bruh
 
GrapeApe said:
trappedintime said:
I'm well aware you have the option, but the people who paid won. Some of us (myself included) who didn't pay, didn't win. Do the math. Hundreds if not thousands of pairs won at $10 a pop... dude probably banked some serious cash. This was supposedly an effort to make Nike step up. Well now they have and he's still trying to beat their new system, even after they have made a policy specifically against what they're doing. This isn't some saintly endeavor, that's all I'm pointing out.
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LOL at banked some cash.  No, Memphis and his $30-$60 RSVP's banked some cash.  Hundreds, if not thousands paying the $10 donation and getting their pair....hahahahah ok, that happened.  $10 is freakin shipping if you get lucky and get through FNL on release day.  Just shut up about his service because you didn't win.  You still tricked an NTer into giving you a pair of 13's for retail somehow.  It's not like you've ever provided anything to help this community.  I've never seen a helpful post from you.  All you do is clutter this thing with your *****ing.

And you randoms thinking you were some prophets that "predicted" Nike would do this....are you seriously thinking that you were the only ones posting this?  People have been saying it for months, and it isn't really something you have to post to have thought of...it's obvious.  And the creators weren't saying they wouldn't do this.  They said bring it on, we already have updates going to combat whatever they're going to put into place.  Well I was the first one to post on here after the new rules that the most important thing was the actual rule banning people from the RSVPs/NT's if suspected of using the automated programs.  But since you posted here eventually, when something comes of that, I am sure you will try to remind us you were first to say something about it hahaha. 

And no, just because Nike is a huge company does not mean when they implement one thing it goes company wide immediately, but you responded up there like that guy was an idiot for asking.  NT Portland was the only store using the automated DM procedure forever, and now Seattle has started it...but it isn't company wide. 

Chronos not only did get plenty of members pairs for free, but whatever cash he was receiving from the $10 donations is nothing compared to what the few who donated (NOT YOU) would have had to pay to get them for retail online or from a reseller.  And I'm sure you'll have two or three responses, just to this post, fulla BS to try and take every statement I said, miss the actual point of the statement, and harp on something that only you believe because you deal with the subject in one of your apparent 500 jobs.  So have a good time.
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TMcGrady1 said:
How about using a HANDWRITTEN piece of paper with a very simple and quick "riddle" as the new system? Here's what I mean:



Or:



It's extremely easy for anyone that isn't a complete moron to gather that the hashtag would be #Banter. Wouldn't this be literally impossible to bot, especially the second image? If there was any hope of OCRing then those lines and scribbles would throw it off for sure. Well, what do you guys think? It's so "low tech" and seems so simple, but wouldn't it solve the problem?

And yes, I did tag my pics cause when Nike eventually uses this system they're gonna send me vouchers and free kicks. They might even sponsor me and give me my own signature shoe!
roll.gif
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Awesome idea. I was thinking pretty much the same thing.  Wouldn't even need to be handwritten since the actual hashtag won't be printed (nothing to really hide).
 
I've got a love/hate relationship with the RSVP system. Becase of it, I've been able to cop Military 4s, All-Star KD Vs, Bulls 1s, and Playoff 11s (December). The added bonus is the people who RSVP with no intentions of buying. I've gotten the Obisidian 12s, Fighter Jet Foams, and the Fire Red 4s as a result of people not picking up their RSVP, all from Niketown LA and Nike Santa Monica. But I'll admit, recently it's become impossible recently due to the bots, and I'm glad to see Nike making some changes to help make it more "fair". The best process IMO is the FCFS list/wristband system that was in place for awhile. The TLO bots don't bother me since I'm on the West Coast and I hate having to wake up at 5am my time to play the refresh game. Hopefully this change opens things back up for the dedicated sneaker heads that just want to get their hands on a fresh pair to rock!!
 
This might be one of the best threads I've been on all month.  No one is arguing, and I appreciate BigJ, Grape, unlaced and TM posting knolwdge/ideas.  Beyond the whole shoe aspect of it, I personally find the development of this stuff facinating. 
 
engineer said:
Awesome idea. I was thinking pretty much the same thing.  Wouldn't even need to be handwritten since the actual hashtag won't be printed (nothing to really hide).
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Thanks man and yea, it wouldn't really HAVE to be handwritten, but it would be the best option.

The hashtags wouldn't even have to form actual words like in my example above. It could be like this:


"The hashtag for this release is a combination of the first two letters in the word 'hello,' the first two letters of the word 'phone' and the last three letters of the word 'orange.'"
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This would give you "hephnge" as the hashtag. It doesn't matter if that's not a word. As long as it involves something only a human can interpret.

Actually, on second thought, it probably DOES have to be handwritten if Nike wants to be REALLY sure. I could see my example of "hephnge" being deciphered if OCRing could be used to find keywords like "first," "last," "two letters," "three letters" and "word."





TLDR - Handwrite those "riddles" and bots would be dead. Period.
 
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TMcGrady1 said:
How about using a HANDWRITTEN piece of paper with a very simple and quick "riddle" as the new system? Here's what I mean:



Or:



It's extremely easy for anyone that isn't a complete moron to gather that the hashtag would be #Banter. Wouldn't this be literally impossible to bot, especially the second image? If there was any hope of OCRing then those lines and scribbles would throw it off for sure. Well, what do you guys think? It's so "low tech" and seems so simple, but wouldn't it solve the problem?

And yes, I did tag my pics cause when Nike eventually uses this system they're gonna send me vouchers and free kicks. They might even sponsor me and give me my own signature shoe!
roll.gif
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I said in a previous post that Nike should just use trivia questions, math problems, or word association. Respond with the right answer the fastest. 

And they can link it to some laudable education initiative. 

No bot can tell you when the last time a traction trebuchet was used in battle and by whom. 

It's largely fair, and greatly minimizes the risk of tampering. 

Not that I really care; I've never paid someone to *win* me shoes and never will. I'm old school. I source them with ease. Build the right connections and you can have people literally bringing Royals to you. Literally, gentlemen. 
 
Nike definitely has the right idea here, but with what I have seen so far it won't take much to parse these images. For example, if they use that same font, color, etc for every image, it will easily get beat. However, I think there are many things they could do with this technique that would make it very hard to game.

For reference, I recently wrote an app for the game iPhone Letterpress (yes I'm a nerd), that grabs a screenshot of your game, gets all of the letters, and spits out a list of the highest scoring words. A lot of the same things I used there would easily work for this.

And like many of y'all have said, the key here is their wording on banning users from future RSVP releases. Hopefully people who still buy these bots realize this.
 
JoanPujolGarcia said:
I said in a previous post that Nike should just use trivia questions, math problems, or word association. Respond with the right answer the fastest. 

And they can link it to some laudable education initiative. 

No bot can tell you when the last time a traction trebuchet was used in battle and by whom. 

It's largely fair, and greatly minimizes the risk of tampering. 

Not that I really care; I've never paid someone to *win* me shoes and never will. I'm old school. I source them with ease. Build the right connections and you can have people literally bringing Royals to you. Literally, gentlemen. 
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Well I'm not as lucky I guess because no one brought me any royals... But some obscure riddle or math problem would be cool for an RSVP. At least it might be a LITTLE more fun trying. And the whole process might last longer than 10 seconds...
 
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