Official: 2007-08 Chicago Bulls Season Thread

[bullsrepeat3peat]

Wallets and Gordon have to go in any way possible.....

Beasley would be nice

 

[arog27]

At 18-28 the Piti-Bulls are only 2 games out of the 8th spot. The sad thing is that there are a lot of crappy NBA teams this season. 10 games under .500 ispathetic, but not overwhelmingly horrible in this Eastern Conf.

The Piti-Bulls are one of 4 teams with 18 wins . A whopping 9 teams have a worse record than we do. With Miami being the crappiest.

..:::sigh..::

 

[stringer bell 32]

I say we start to poistion ourselves for a nice spot in the lottery

 

[knightngale]

Originally Posted by Air273

Quote:

---

How the heck is he gonna reject that newest deal

---

1 both players(deng gordon) are not sure where they will be playing, if they got traded to the lakers they will get even more money offered to them.
2 if Kirk "only player ever to get a 50 mil contract and not show any improvement from his rookie year" Hinrich could get 50 mil shouldnt they get at least 2-3 mil more per year than him.
3 pax low balled them and they know it, the bulls have all the power, so deng and gordon want to flip it and become free agents but the bulls still have the power because next off season not many teams are going to be under the cap they might not get an offer, but then they have the power to say fine we will become free agents next year. if al jefferson can get 5 years 65 mil deng and gordon should also get that. they are above avg players at their position, how many SF in the NBA would pax trade Deng stright up for? how many SGs would he trade gordon for?

by the way Kirk was was tied for 6th on the team in asst last night vs. the clippers, thats pathetic. if the bulls are going to do something dumb and trade for kobe, trade kirk ben wallace, thabo, noc. thats the only deal i would allow. lakers wont do it but i dont want to give up deng or gordon.

like chad ford says @#%$ kobe




The Kobe conundrum: What's his real trade value?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Chad Ford
ESPN.com



When Kobe Bryant went public with his offseason trade request, the "Kobe sweepstakes" began, at least in the media.


What team wouldn't want the man often called the "best player in the league"?


Almost six months later, Bryant is still wearing the purple and gold of the Los Angeles Lakers, while teams such as the Dallas Mavericks and Chicago Bulls have shown an unwillingness to offer what the Lakers would consider fair value.


Why are teams reluctant to make their best offer for Kobe?


I spoke to a number of NBA sources who have been engaged in or are familiar with the Bryant trade negotiations. Almost all evidence from these conversations points to this conclusion:


Bryant's trade value isn't nearly as high as he or the Lakers would like to think.


Here are four questions teams are trying to answer before acquiring Bryant:


1. Does Kobe have too much mileage?

Kobe is already 29 years old. When he turns 30 in August, he'll reach an age at which many players decline. It's the age at which Michael Jordan retired the first time -- and when MJ returned, he was still a great player, but no longer a high flyer.


It's not only the years that concern some teams, but also the minutes. Counting NBA regular-season and playoff games, Bryant has logged 33,576 minutes -- 918 games of about 37 minutes each, in just 11-plus seasons.


That's more "mileage" on his legs than on the legs of Ray Allen (age 32) or Allen Iverson (32). Kobe's contemporaries include Vince Carter (30) and Steve Francis (30), and he's played thousands more minutes than those two.


And about the same as Chris Webber (34). More than Alonzo Mourning (37). More than Sam Cassell (37).


Further, Kobe has had knee problems the past few seasons, including arthroscopic knee surgery in 2004 and 2006.


No one knows whether all that mileage -- all those minutes -- will shorten Bryant's career.


But it's understandable if a team is reluctant to find out how Kobe's knees survive his next 10,000 minutes on the hardwood.


2. Is Kobe really the best player in the NBA?

It's often said, by players, journalists and fans alike, that Bryant is the best player in the league.


Without a doubt, he's one of the greatest offensive forces we've ever seen. Indeed, his skill level in all aspects of the game is probably the most advanced we've seen since Jordan.


But not everyone thinks that makes him the best player in the game.


As teams use more sophisticated statistical measures, Bryant doesn't grade out as the NBA's most productive player. He's not even close.



Trade Kobe

While the real GMs figure out a way to land Kobe, here's your chance to make a Kobe deal. Trade Machine

Ford: Potential Kobe landing spots



We can see this as we look at the publicly available metrics, such as player efficiency rating, wins produced and plus/minus.


For instance, Bryant has never led the league in John Hollinger's PER (player efficiency rating), which combines a player's stats and percentages into a single measure. Last season, Bryant was well behind Dirk Nowitzki and Dwyane Wade.


To put his numbers into historical perspective, his career-high PER of 27.97 in 2005-06 ranks No. 42 all-time in the league. Several current players have posted a higher PER than Kobe did in his best season, including Wade (twice), LeBron James, Dirk Nowitzki (twice), Shaquille O'Neal (six times), Tracy McGrady and Kevin Garnett (twice).


A newer measure from 82games.com, adjusted plus/minus, "reflects the impact of each player on his team's bottom line (scoring margin), after controlling statistically for the strength of every teammate and every opponent during each minute he's on the court." By this measure, Bryant ranked sixth in the NBA last season, behind players such as Jason Kidd and Gilbert Arenas.


According to our best objective measures, Bryant is not the single most efficient or effective player in the game.


Some might say that such measures don't account for Bryant's ability in the "clutch," but even there, Bryant's reputation exceeds his actual performance. In several studies done at 82games.com, Kobe has come up short of other NBA stars. In one in-depth report, Bryant ranked 21st in the NBA in clutch performance.


How does Bryant's postseason prowess compare to Nowitzki's? In the playoffs, Dirk has more points per game, more rebounds per game, more blocked shots per game, a higher field-goal percentage, a higher 3-point field-goal percentage and a higher free-throw percentage. In the past three seasons, Nowitzki has led his team to the NBA Finals, while Bryant hasn't won a single playoff series.


Great player? Yes.


The best? Probably not.


3. Is Kobe a winner?

This question probably resonates the most in NBA front offices. Several GMs I've spoken with have questioned aloud whether Kobe is really a winner.


Let's be fair. He has three rings, and he's known for his intense nightly effort on the court. He was widely acknowledged as a leader of Team USA when it ran the table this summer. And he's led the Lakers to the playoffs the past two seasons despite the team's roster of young, inexperienced players.


On the surface, it appears that Kobe is a winner. But dig deeper and there are real questions.


For starters, the Lakers haven't won a playoff series since Shaq was traded to Miami. Many, starting with Bryant himself, blame the "supporting cast." But, in fact, Kobe's teammates are better than generally believed, and he has a Hall of Fame coach in Phil Jackson.


It's worth noting that last season when the Lakers won at San Antonio in mid-January, they were 26-13, but their progress was eventually derailed by injuries.


The more central questions, according to some observers in the NBA, revolve around Bryant's approach to the game. His amazing determination, while certainly a key part of his success on the court, does not always translate into leadership or a winning attitude.


The best-selling book "Leadership and Self-Deception" explains that leaders try to develop people who are even more capable and creative than they are. They are constantly in the process of creating future leaders. They are more interested in results than credit.


Certainly Bryant wants to win. But he wants to win his way, according to many who have followed his career. And when you break it down, that translates to this attitude: I would rather lose my way than win your way.


Bryant wants to win, but he also wants the most shots. He wants to be a great hero, not a great teammate or leader. He wants the credit.


This Kobe character trait became most apparent when Shaq was traded to the Heat. While Bryant has denied that he asked the Lakers to trade Shaq, just about everyone in the league believes that Kobe wanted him traded because Kobe was tired of sharing the spotlight.


Bryant's play often resembles a solo act, and his criticism of his teammates along with his trade demands only reinforces the idea that Kobe has his own interests, not the interests of his teammates, foremost in his mind and actions.


Contrast Bryant with LeBron James for a moment. James goes out of his way to involve his teammates, and takes over only when needed, as when he scored 25 consecutive points against Detroit in the playoffs. He invests in his teammates, and they rewarded him with a trip to the NBA Finals.


If LeBron were to suddenly be available in a trade, does anyone believe that after six months the Cavs would still be waiting to receive a serious offer? Or 10 serious offers?


I'm told the biggest reason teams such as the Bulls and Mavericks have been reluctant to offer their best players for Bryant is that they've carefully and successfully put together casts of team players with charismatic coaches who try to get everyone pulling in the same direction.


If one of those teams were to break up its core and bring in Bryant, would those parts add up to a championship? No matter how great Kobe is, can a team count on him to devote himself to the greater good?


No one knows, but it's easy to see why Mavs owner Mark Cuban and Bulls GM John Paxson would have reservations.


4. Is Kobe worth it?

Those three issues lead up to the ultimate question: Given all the complex considerations, does it make sense to acquire Kobe?


First of all, it's just not that easy to make a deal, especially during the season, when the roster rules make it more difficult to trade many players for one.


Second, Bryant makes a lot of money -- $19.4 million this season. Since teams over the salary cap are required to make deals that come within 25 percent and $100,000 in contractual obligations of each other, any team that trades for Kobe must part with at least $15 million worth of salaries to make a deal work. The Lakers want several young players to make the trade work. Trading away young, inexpensive talent is disruptive to a team at best and devastating at worst.


Third, such a trade would be a gamble, and NBA teams are generally risk-averse, as we saw at the last trade deadline. Most GMs prefer to stick with the status quo. Taking risks invites scrutiny from the media and fans, and tends to hasten a GM's dismissal, many feel. Doing nothing is simply safer.


Fourth, there is the straightforward question of talent: As great as Bryant is, can he replace the talent a team would have to give up? And if a team gives up too much to acquire Kobe, that team would be no more equipped to compete for a championship than the Lakers are, which would potentially start the cycle all over again, with Bryant's unhappiness dominating the team.


What can make a trade work?


Kobe could drop his no-trade clause (and promise to forego his 15 percent trade kicker to make a trade work), which would theoretically allow for more teams to consider a deal.


Or the Lakers could drop their asking price, accepting a deal for cap relief and/or veterans who help them compete right away.


Or a team could get off to a slow start (such as Chicago's disappointing 0-3 start) and raise its offer.


But if the status quo holds, teams will have to look forward to the summer of 2009, when Bryant can opt out of his contract at the age of 31.


By then our eyes and hearts will likely have caught up with what the numbers and logic are already telling us: Kobe Bryant is a great player, but in a team sport like basketball he lacks the ability, on his own, to deliver an NBA championship

reading this thread is just pure comedy with deng rejecting that contract and gordon wanting a 75mil contract

 

[stringer bell 32]

[h3]Paxson Refutes Report[/h3]Chicago GM John Paxson said yesterday that, despite published speculation, the Bulls have not shown interest in Larry Brown as a possible coach in their future.
In an interview yesterday with Chicago radio station WMVP-AM, Brown said he had not been contacted by Paxson.

"I'm not going to speculate on any job when there's a coach involved,'' Brown said. "It's not fair. It's not appropriate. People know that I'm out there and people know what I'm capable of doing." -- Philadelphia Daily News

• Paxson reiterated that interim coach Jim Boylan, whom Paxson promoted after firing Scott Skiles on Christmas Eve, has the job at least until the end of the season.
  "I have not begun the process" of evaluating coaching options for next season, Paxson said. -- Chicago Sun-Times
• If the Bulls end up seeking a new coach this summer, common sense suggests that Paxson would consider candidates with a proven track record such as Brown, Doug Collins and Jeff Van Gundy. He'll also probably look at NBA assistants such as Detroit's Terry Porter and San Antonio's Mike Budenholzer. -- Arlington Heights Daily Herald

From ESPN Insider

 

[arog27]

Larry Brown's only coached about 11 teams.......not sure if i want him here though.

 

[jmause3]

I don't want Larry Brown at all. Great coach but he just bounces around too much

 

[arog27]

[h1]Bulls working to trade Ben Wallace[/h1]
The Bulls, starting Tuesday against the New Orleans Hornets, have two home games left before the NBA trading deadline. Will they be the last two for BenWallace in a Bulls uniform?

It has been no secret around the NBA the Bulls have engaged in exploratory trade talks regarding Wallace in recent weeks, most notably with the Lakers beforethey acquired Pau Gasol. There also have been rumors of talks with the Knicks, though perhaps the most intriguing match is with the Utah Jazz.

Would the Jazz take the 34-year-old Wallace, and his hefty contract, for Andrei Kirilenko?

On the surface, it would seem unlikely. Kirilenko is far more productive and younger (27 this month). But, as we saw with the Gasol and Shaquille O'Nealdeals, there are many other factors in NBA trades than just talent.

A big one for the Jazz is the length and amount of Kirilenko's contract, which goes one more season (three) than Wallace's and is at $17.8 million forthat final year. Trading Kirilenko for Wallace would save the Jazz $21 million as Kirilenko is paid more annually than Wallace.

The small-market Jazz has to be a budget-conscious franchise, but it also has bigger issues on the horizon.

The Jazz has star point guard Deron Williams eligible for an extension this summer, and then Carlos Boozer before the end of Kirilenko's deal. It alreadyhas talked openly of paying Williams the maximum.

Kirilenko asked for a trade before the season, and though he hasn't been a problem, he hasn't rescinded his request. Plus, Kirilenko plays out ofposition with the Jazz at small forward.

Though just off a 10-game winning streak before beating the Bulls here Saturday night, the Jazz remains one of the poorest rebounding teams in the league, 21stoverall, 27th in defensive rebounding and 24th in blocks.

Asked by reporters about a trade, Kirilenko hardly said he would like to stay.

"It's not that I want to be traded, but I'm ready to be," he said. "Anybody in this league, they understand that position. Nobody wantsto be traded. We're playing good. And I want to be part of it. But, again, it's a business-and it's not in my hands."

That's hardly a plea to stay.

For his part, Wallace doesn't have any thoughts about the trade deadline.

"I just go out and do what I do," he said. "I'm fine with how it's going. Again, that's on management. There are a lot of teams outthere making deals, trying to get better. Who knows? It don't worry me. It's a part of the business. If they're going to trade you, there's notmuch you can do. You have the best job in the world. It would just be in a different city. It don't bother me. The only time it starts bothering me is whennobody wants me."

There was a report on ESPN this weekend of Bulls talks with the Knicks about Wallace for Quentin Richardson, Malik Rose and Fred Jones. Wallace is believed tohave told friends he expects to be traded and would like to go to the Knicks.

I believe if the Bulls can't get something better, they could do that to move Wallace's contract, though Rose has a season left after this andRichardson two. Those two, though, hardly address the Bulls' needs and perhaps create other issues.

Some of the motivation to move Wallace now is that Joakim Noah clearly is the team's future center, and that was evident again in a strong finish Thursdaynight in Golden State.

Kirilenko is hardly an All-Pro, but he has been an All-Star, can make a shot and plays defense. He would look good next to Noah with Tyrus Thomas or Luol Dengat small forward.

With Thabo Sefolosha and Kirk Hinrich in the backcourt, suddenly that doesn't look so bad as Hinrich is much better playing with Sefolosha. Dealing Wallacealso could allow the Bulls to make a move to address the point guard or shooting guard spots further.

--Sam Smith- Chicago Tribune.

 

[6demonbag]

Paxson is so blind on sticking with this "core" he drafted and has lost touch with reality, moves are being made and hes just watching.... I honestlybelieve he just has no clue what to do and sits in a corner in his office in a fetal position rocking back and forth crying all day....This team had thepotential to be one of the most dangerous in the east but now theyre a joke...Paxson has to go

 

[newbs24]

Paxson made the right call and got rid of Skiles and he needs to do the right thing again and get rid of some of these guys. Wallets and Gordon need to go FORSURE. Hinrich can go too. Thabo is looking decent with the newfound minutes. Duhon isn't bad at the point and if we could have gottena go-to guy we wouldhave been set. I am now looking back and Deng and Gordon for Kobe would have been a steal. They combine to do just as much as Kobe but Kobe is a star who getsstar treatment and takes over games. Paxson will be forever remembered for keeping this team together and watching them fail instead of going after the bigfish. It also sucks that our owner is a chaepskate. That is the biggest problem. He needs to go away and leave the team with someone else.

 

[stringer bell 32]

I think Gordon is more likely to leave than Wallace.

Thabo has been putting up points, but that FG% is

I heard they're trying to make a deal with Golden State and Chris Duhon.

Can anyone confirm??

There was a radio interview with Paxson a week ago and I got the sense that him and Gordon needed to get back on the same page. It seemed like they'rerelationship was rocky to say the least

 

[jmause3]

This team is just a flat out disaster. If Gordon does go i just hope that we get something for him and not just let him go by free agency. Why would we wantKirilenko? A great defender but he would taking minutes away from Noc and Loul.

Oh yeah BG, you are my boy and all but, you may have just received your walking papers with this "wrist injury" you have. Thabo is a better defenderand is the tall 2 guard we have been looking for. Thabo and Duhon have been looking good without a doubt. Tyrus needs more minutes.
So many problems with this team. This group has maxed out with their potential. Its too bad BG isn't a good decision maker because the boy can flat outball

 

[am 1 fiend]

This season has been so dissapointing so far. It's a shame that we keep underachieving as well. I seriously am wondering what's going to happen withthis squad.

 

[arog27]

Thabo doesn't handle the ball very well, nor does he shoot that great....atleast not yet. He has improved thought, and thats good to see.

I still like BG....if we trade him, are we gonna get back his 20ppg average?.....doubt it...I wish he would've signed that damn contract....greedy people.

and hindsight is 20/20.....I've wanted Kobe on my team since the rumors started. I wont waiver.....but he'll never play for the Bulls....its veryunfortunate that the Lakers became , not just a good, but really good team...worst thing that couldve happened....::sigh:::

 

[kobekid24]

seems like deng's been out forever...

 

[mw2889]

They're probably being extra careful with Deng.

And by "extra careful" I mean tanking the season/lowering Deng and Gordon's value.

 

[stringer bell 32]

Deng has value

I don't if anyone is dumb enough to actually value Ben Gordon.

Pax, get on the phone with Zeke now!

 

[flintgrey]

Agreed, MW.

I have to say - this bunch hit their ceiling the past two years. Its straight downhill from here. Dump Big Ben and Hinrich & lets see what value we canrecoup!

 

[stringer bell 32]

[h3]One-Year Contract An Option[/h3]
Ben Gordon | Bulls
There's almost no chance Ben Gordon will be dealt by the NBA deadline Thursday. Bulls officials found out weeks ago there is little market for Gordon because of his salary expectations when he becomes a restricted free agent this summer.
"It is a huge obstacle," one source said.

Gordon said Tuesday he has given little thought to being traded.

''I let [rumors] roll off my back, knowing that I can't do anything about it,'' he said. ''You have to come to grips with it at a point in your career. I've done that. You go about your business and wait to see what happens.'' -- Chicago Sun-Times

• Days after demurring when questioned on the same subject, Ben Gordon finally admitted he has considered signing the Bulls' one-year tender offer next summer and becoming an unrestricted free agent in the summer of 2009.
  "I definitely didn't go out of my way and say something to the organization trying to threaten them, but it is an option," Gordon said Tuesday. "Luol [Deng] has that option. Most guys in my position have that option."
  
  John Paxson, according to league sources, has gauged interest in Gordon but has been underwhelmed by what the Bulls' leading scorer is fetching. -- The Chicago Tribune

 

[arog27]

[h1]Three-team deal sends Wallace to Cavs[/h1]
By K.C. Johnson, UPDATED at 4:03 p.m.

The Ben Wallace era in Chicago has come to an end.

A little more than one and a half seasons after Bulls general manager John Paxson and then-coach Scott Skiles made a splash by signing Wallace away from theDetroit Pistons for $60 million over four years, the Bulls have agreed in principle to ship the center, along with Joe Smith and a future second-round pick, toCleveland as part of a three-team deal that included Seattle.

The Cavs also received Wally Szczerbiak and Delonte West from the SuperSonics. Chicago also sent Adrian Griffin to Seattle, which also acquired Ira Newbleand Donyell Marshall from Cleveland.

The Bulls receive Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, Cedric Simmons and Shannon Brown from Cleveland.

The trade awaits league approval but is expected to go through.

"I had a good time here," Wallace said Thursday. "I enjoyed being one of the guys. And I had a good season last year."

Wallace was expected to be among the final pieces to push the Bulls over the top and back into real contention for an NBA title for the first time since thedynasty of Jordan and Pippen were broken up. The Bulls did advance past the first round of the playoffs in Wallace's first year, sweeping Miami. They wereknocked out by Detroit in the second round, 4 games to 2.

Wallace sometimes chafed under Skiles' coaching. In November 2006, his first season with the Bulls, Wallace famously wore his then-verboten head band ina game against the Knicks in New York, a clear act of defiance. The coaching staff relaxed that rule entering this year.

"It's one of those things you come in and play hard and try to give what you give and not worry about what you can't control," Wallacesaid. "We had some guys that were banged up and beat up a bit. It was tough for us to get everybody on the floor and try to play basketball."

Wallace averaged 6.4 points and 10.7 rebounds a game in his first season in Chicago. Both of those averages dropped -- 5.1 and 8.8, respectively -- thisseason.

"It is a relief," Wallace said. "I just have to play basketball."

Cleveland, the defending Eastern Conference champions, add Wallace to give LeBron James fire power in a weakened East. The Cavs currently have the fifthseed. The Bulls sit 10th, two spots out.

"They just have to go out and play," Wallace said. "They still have a good team. It's not like these guys don't know the game andknow how to play. They just have to play together."

Kirk Hinrich couldn't stop chuckling at the idea of Gooden, his teammate for three seasons at Kansas, coming to Chicago.

"He's a funny guy," Hinrich said. "Chicago is going to like him."

Hinrich insists that feeling will translate to Gooden's on-the-court performance.

"He's a real high-energy player who always has been a great rebounder," Hinrich said from his home. "He can shoot with some range.He's real competitive and wants to win. He's a real good friend."

General manager John Paxson long has admired Gooden's game. In 51 games this season, Gooden currently is averaging 11.3 points and 8.3 rebounds.

The addition of Hughes, who makes $12.8 million, could impact the future of Ben Gordon, who is a restricted free agent this summer. Along with Hinrich, whomakes $10 million next season, the Bulls now have huge money invested in their backcourt.

"You have to think it has an impact on everybody," Gordon said. "How, I don't know. Only time will tell."

Gordon said Wallace would be missed.

"He was a great teammate," he said. "He came here and he definitely helped us get to the second round last season. I guess management felt hedidn't reach expectations they wanted him to. That's part of the business. This is my first time I've ever had a trade during the season. The next29 games, and with new teammates coming in, we're going to see what it can do. Hopefully it helps."

Gordon likes Gooden and Hughes.

"They're both two talented players," he said. "I think Drew is a really good player. He does a lot of things on the offensive end.He's a good rebounder. Larry is a big guard, almost like Thabo with his length. We'll see how they fit in. Hopefully they make us a betterteam."

 

[arog27]

It sure looks like BG's run is coming to an end here in Chicago....which is a shame, because the Bulls are not going to replace his 20 pts. per game.

 

[jblackcat13]

Got rid of the big contract, but I'm still ehhh on Hughes. I'm ok with Gooden. Didn't want Smith to go, I don't really care much about Duhonnever did like him. I hope Brown gets some playing time, but I doubt he will. Maybe Tyrus will get some more time.

 

[arog27]

Duhon wasn't traded jBlack...and i agree on Hughes...ehhhhhh

 

[you big dummy]

Bulls season is officially over

 

[jblackcat13]

Originally Posted by aRog27

Duhon wasn't traded jBlack...and i agree on Hughes...ehhhhhh

I thought Duhon was going out to Seattle? Guess I read a bad article.

And yeah the season was over long ago. I just want them to tank already and get a high draft pick.